sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<johnhardy>
OK, I had a little think about how you could improve the security in a blockchain tree for passing coins to a parent
<johnhardy>
Since child nodes must synchronise all parent blockchains to the top of the tree, this means you could create an alert system. If a bad miner tried to create a transaction to steal bitcoins and get the transaction mined in a block on the parent...
<johnhardy>
the nodes would see that can could broadcast a proof to their peers in the parent blockchain
<johnhardy>
and then you wouldnt mine on that block
<johnhardy>
so the block would fail
<johnhardy>
We don't have to limit ourselves to the security model of a two way peg with bitcoin where bitcoin is "blind". While parents cannot see child blockchains, they are aware of them and can recieve messages and proofs from them
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<amiller_>
is there a form of segwit that also prevents "voluntary malleability"
<amiller_>
all the details in bip141 mention "involuntary malleability" where it's done by someone without the signing key
<amiller_>
nvm i guess that is a dumb question if there are multiple keys
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<luke-jr>
amiller_: not really possible with ECDSA aiui
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<instagibbs>
amiller_, someone could also use a different nonce of course
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<cjcj>
Is there a mirror available for downloading the documents at download.wpsoftware.com/bitcoin? It seems to be down
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<fluffypony>
cjcj: andytoshi said that he's having ISP issues, but he's working on it
<cjcj>
fluffypony: OK, thanks
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<andytoshi>
cjcj: we're on day 3 of an unplanned outage which seems related to my DSL auth and my ISP (and its parent ISP) are "working on it"
<andytoshi>
canada is basically like the rural US (except that you can't go to the good parts of the US without papers), there are one or two ISPs everywhere and they are unbelievable crap
<andytoshi>
even if you are paying three times as much as the usual exhorbiant rates for "business internet" where they aren't supposed to do this
<andytoshi>
nothing on wpsoftware.net is static except the webserver, which took ten minutes to set up and is very easy to access because it's on the same LAN as my other servers ... and i'm also not sure that even 100% of the static content is stuff i'd like hosted out of my physical control
<fluffypony>
fair enough
<fluffypony>
you could always do mirrors.wpsoftware :-P
<wumpus>
for static content there's always github.io :)
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<andytoshi>
wumpus: then i need another server -and- an unrelated auth mechanism to everything else i do, -and- i can't even do simple things like tack a php hit counter onto stuff
<fluffypony>
andytoshi: rsync to a mirror
<fluffypony>
and then use Route53 or similar to handle DNS failover
<nicolagreco>
the typecoin paper is really interesting (I am pretty sure I come late on that), but defining affine logic formally can be very interesting
<andytoshi>
oh my goodness guys, i was annoyed that i had to spend ten whole minutes setting up the existing paper :)
<wumpus>
andytoshi: I've found it just so easy myself, just push to git and github will host it, no need to mess around with VPSes, apache servers etc. But whatever floats your boat :)
<andytoshi>
err, server
<nicolagreco>
one can type a coin and semantically use a type (as a programmable token)
<andytoshi>
cjcj: what specifically are you looking for?
<andytoshi>
my ISP updated my ticket 30 mins ago to say my case manager has the day off today
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<fluffypony>
lol
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<uiuc-slack>
<amiller> instagibbs, i thought that the signatures aren't included in segwit
<uiuc-slack>
<amiller> in the txid in segwit i mean
<uiuc-slack>
<amiller> so it doesn't matter if you make a bunch of different signatures on the same message, it won't be affecting the txid
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<cjcj>
andytoshi: Was looking for the asic-faq.pdf to share with a friend
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<andytoshi>
sorry about the state of wpsoftware.net right now, i am actively trying to get answers from these morons..
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<cjcj>
andytoshi: Thank you!
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<andytoshi>
lol bryan even rehosted my mimblewimble drafts with the "incomplete don't read" disclaimers on them .. very cool. thank you kanzure !
<kanzure>
i figured it would be rude to strip that from the pdf
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<andytoshi>
hehehe, I have one that's almost-publishable (as a draft), i've fixed almost all the TODOs and "uhh I think this proof is wrong" sections. i'm hammering out the 'extensions' section right now (which will take a bit, there is a ghetto payment channel scheme which is not entirely trivial) then there are ome technical steps missing from one last proof
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<pigeons>
i love the "defunct hidden service" citation
<andytoshi>
:)
<andytoshi>
i should add my and kanzure's mirror links to that..
<proslogion>
is there any real plan for mimblewimble that anyone is aware of?
<kanzure>
andytoshi is merely a figment of our collective imagination
<andytoshi>
proslogion: i'm slowly working on a consensus lib for it, but i underestimated how much math/eng work was required for the pairing stuff and lost a bunch of time .. and rn i'm playing catch-up writing the paper and preparing a talk
<proslogion>
andytoshi: thanks, do you use the off the shelf pairing lib out there or write your own?
<andytoshi>
the plan -was- to have a program that used the consensus lib to copy the bitcoin chainstate onto mimblewimble, say "look at this!" in milan, and try to attract some dev talent to build a p2p layer and wallets on top of it
<andytoshi>
proslogion: initially i will use libpbc, mainly because i haven't nailed down the exact curve parameters i want
<proslogion>
okay 'was', that was quite ambitious ;)
<andytoshi>
but for an actual consensus system i need to write my own
<andytoshi>
right proslogion now i don't think i'll have enough of the code written by milan
<proslogion>
rock star bubble busted ;)
<andytoshi>
yep :)
<waxwing>
"ghetto payment channel" lol
<waxwing>
andytoshi: thanks for the new draft
<andytoshi>
thanks for reading waxwing , please let me know if there's missing parts not marked TODO or if stuff is wrong/confusing
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<waxwing>
i think i'm going to start using a @ghetto decorator for all my test functions
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<proslogion>
i guess you can just write 'non-existent' under the 'Quantum Resistance', no?
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<andytoshi>
proslogion: eh, in the system as described yes, but i think there are quantum hard analogues to all the primitives
<andytoshi>
like there was a paper here about pedersen-commitment-like commitments that are weakly homomorphic in a way that should be sufficient for MW. (i'm not sure about rangeproofs, that's open). then the sinking signatures are easy, probably any LWE-based signature will be aggregable in the way that wewant
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<andytoshi>
it's definitely something i'm interested in, right now mimblewimble sorta has a shelf life because of this, but i want to push it to encourange research/dev on (for example) p2p in an OWAS-supporting network
<andytoshi>
but in the background, i've been thinking about how to make a quantum-resistant analogue that doesn't have completely prohibitive data sizes
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<Taek42>
andytoshi: your ISP believes in POS, that's the real issue here.
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<bitcoin191>
hey, does anyone have an f2pool referral code
<bitcoin191>
i made a major mess up and sent coins to the wrong address, I did a double spend with a .02 BTC fee (original tx has only .0001 fee) but I want to make sure it gets included
<bitcoin191>
anyone have any best practices to help me not lose like $5000 right now
<Taek>
#bitcoin
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<andytoshi>
Taek: what does POS stand for in this cantext?
<Taek>
proof-of-stake
<andytoshi>
i can't grok your joke :)
<andytoshi>
btw Taek the latest mimblewimble pdf i posted has all the compact chain stuff written out, i think last we talked about it i sorta waved my hands
<Taek>
oh. Your site hosts the canonical anti-proof-of-stake document, and it seems like all the tech companies these days are preferring ethereum and PoS and whatnot. Too much of a reach I guess
<Taek>
also, looking forward to catching up on the MW stuff
<andytoshi>
ok, yeah :) i thought that's what you meant but it is a bit of a reach
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<bitcoin191>
hey guys
<bitcoin191>
i successfully double spent my fuck up:)
<bitcoin191>
holy shit that was close LOL
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<vega4>
I just opened the mimble-wimble paper. It might be that I'm having a flue and that's 2:00 am.. and I got stuck at 1.2 Trust Model.forgive me, but it is so chaotic.. or maybe I need to get some sleep. you try to present your idea in the light of bitcoin and distance yourself from some pecularities of it. define required notions first move on to describing the diffrences.in a simple logical manner. I find it interesting ho
<vega4>
ing some of the alt-coin papers turn out to be. look at the simplicity of bitcoin paper. "Mimblewimble only allows to verify essential features", that's where it intrugued me and I'm surely gonna read it whole tomorrow.