<penguin42>
atari2600a: This conversation is going through a P90 desktop that's my NAT box; wouldn't actually want to do anything useful on it though
<L84Supper>
some vendors have used the PCIe on the Tegra for wifi
<penguin42>
L84Supper: Yeh I do wonder if that could be broken out to a PCIe backplane and bridge
<L84Supper>
I wish they did add PCIe to some tablets, there would be all sorts of industrial uses
<penguin42>
L84Supper: My assumption is that Apple will add it with the thunderbolt connectors, and I'd bet some of the industrial ones have it
<L84Supper>
penguin42: it depends on the PCIe on the SOC, some are only x1 some are x4
<penguin42>
there are SOCs with x4 ?
<penguin42>
oooh
<atari2600a>
while nothing would make me happier than see the wifi bottleneck on phones & tablets go away, I think a mPCIE slot would be better fitted for storage
<L84Supper>
if you spot an industrail one, please let me know
<L84Supper>
some of the marvell had x4 PCIe, but the bus would get saturated pretty easily
<penguin42>
I know Lenovo are doing a laptop that'll fold around to a tablet style - like the tablets of 5 years ago
<L84Supper>
a GPU would starve there pretty quickly
<L84Supper>
nothing with Marvell teds to work out, Google seems to be willing to spend the time to fix their hardware
<L84Supper>
i.mx6 has PCIe and SATA
<Mehhh>
All I want is an A15 quadcore, narrow stick
<penguin42>
nod
<Mehhh>
narrow, not square
<L84Supper>
all the latest ARM soc's are either unavailable, broken or missing open docs, some are even missing closed docs :)
<Mehhh>
I'm just hoping the Allwinner A15 is an A15 ;)
<Mehhh>
They could call it the Xzibit core
<penguin42>
Mehhh: Based on standard naming of other SoCs the only thing you can be sure of is that whatever it's named it will in no way indicate what core it's got
<Mehhh>
yeh
<penguin42>
Mehhh: especially if it looks like it should
<Turl>
Mehhh: exynos 5 odroid :P
<Mehhh>
Scumbag Allwinner; releases Allwinner A10, with a C A8
<Mehhh>
Turl, square :<
<Mehhh>
need a narrow stick
<Mehhh>
using Mk802 atm, not narrow enough but it'll do
<Turl>
it's gonna be too hot for a narrow stick
<Mehhh>
Naw, i made a nice heatsink for it
<L84Supper>
I bet it's done intentionally to get buyers to assume it's better than it is, like the 1.5GHz spec and dual cores
<Turl>
I mean the A15
<Turl>
consider A15 was invented to be used on servers, not mobile
<penguin42>
Turl: Arguable considering it's now in latest phones and tablets
<L84Supper>
narrow stick with large heatsink or a heatpipe
<Mehhh>
I'm using it in a lapdock so
<Mehhh>
anything 10w> is awesome
<Mehhh>
Sitting here soldering just to fit it correctly
<Turl>
10W+? :P
<Turl>
s/invented/intended/
<L84Supper>
maybe he lives in a cold climate and the heat is welcome :)
<penguin42>
plumbing a few large boxes into our central heating system wouldn't be bad at the moment
<Turl>
get some i7 on there
<Turl>
or a pair of xeons :)
* penguin42
has his i7 over there -- but it needs a few to keep the place warm
<L84Supper>
add a few HD6990 gpu cards :)
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<Turl>
penguin42: sandy or ivy?
<Mehhh>
If you need a cheap reflow station, I hear the old AMD FX's are on sale
<penguin42>
Turl: It's 3 years old, so a bit earlier - Lynnfield possibly (i7-860)
<libv>
well, the eoma allwinner stuff or the creation of a tablet to ship with plasma
<libv>
oh great, a whole bit about gpu and graphics.
<libv>
well, good luck with this, but i will not hold my breath
<orly_owl>
neither will i
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<Mehhh>
mehhhh, soldering hurts my fingers
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<libv>
Mehhh: hold the bit that isn't heated
<Kasbert>
hi. I have a Mini Xplus device and I am trying to read the NAND using BROM code (that should work, because it boots from there ?).
<Kasbert>
The device has a slightly different rom compared to Allwinner-Info/BROM.
<Kasbert>
I use a fel-boot prepared sdcard to enter fel mode. Calling 0xffff50c0 (load_from_mmc) works as expected, but nand load 0xffff5410 just hangs. Any idea why ?
<Kasbert>
Could it be the fel/usb code messing with clocks or something ?
<Mehhh>
rofl
<Mehhh>
My tip is too big
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<orly_owl>
mk802 III is the latest revision?
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<oliv3r>
I do applaud lkcl's effort and persistance. If this SoC materializes in the next year or so and can do full 1080p HD, it may well be the next XBMC (or whatever mediaplayer du jour) preferred SoC. tablets, mini-desktops etc are all workable aswell
<oliv3r>
RMS should be happy :)
<orly_owl>
he might even get a laptop that doesnt suck
<oliv3r>
Hell, I would even get a laptop like that
<orly_owl>
same
<Mehhh>
It won't. 10 million dollars...
<Mehhh>
no way no how
<orly_owl>
id buy 2
<oliv3r>
2 laptops, 3 'set top boxes'
<Mehhh>
not unless he uses money from another project that also uses that CPU
<oliv3r>
a few mini-pc's
<oliv3r>
kick start it :D
<oliv3r>
lets see how long it'll take to get 10m :(
<oliv3r>
if I had 10 mil, i'd invest ;p
<Mehhh>
ask the last company to try
<Mehhh>
that failed
<oliv3r>
Mehhh: which company? tried what?
<Mehhh>
open soc
<Mehhh>
can't remember the name
<Mehhh>
but it was the same idea, and has the same fate
<oliv3r>
when was that though?
<Mehhh>
1-2 years ago?
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<Mehhh>
this same cycle usually happens every 1-2
<oliv3r>
The ideaaa still is good, but nobody is willing to take the risk
<Mehhh>
The first "open" cpu will be when you can 3d print it
<oliv3r>
10 mil (for a big company) isn't that big a deal
<oliv3r>
actually, lkcl should start talks with google, for them 10 mil is chump change
<Mehhh>
You realize they could buy a fab for 10m
<Mehhh>
completely ruining the point
<oliv3r>
They'd obviously do this with the point of creating an open SoC
<Mehhh>
Google: Can it run binary ads? No? No.
<jinzo>
I personally think that within next 5 years something like that will be possible. Because a lot off companies are trying to success in the Smartphone/mobile/whatever market and some of them will burn out
<oliv3r>
it can run android with its binary adds just fine :p
<jinzo>
and then their assests will be cheaper/they will be more willing to open source their design
<jinzo>
at least I hope so. Even if it's not the latest tech - a cheap SoC could go a long way
<Mehhh>
Google won't do it because Samsung
<Mehhh>
Look at what happened to Huawei
<jinzo>
and Motorola and whatnot, that's quite sure
<jinzo>
what? Last time I checked they were doing great.
<oliv3r>
still, for google this will be chump change and would fit fine into their 'google phone/tablet/set top box' portfolio
<Mehhh>
jinzo...
<oliv3r>
now they rely on 3rd party socs'
<Mehhh>
they were almost banned
<Mehhh>
completely
<Mehhh>
in fact politicans are still trying
<Mehhh>
olivr, yes, but google makes money on ads and software
<jinzo>
Mehhh, USA? they will soon be irrelevant in my honest opinion (regarding technology market.)
<Mehhh>
Right
<oliv3r>
Mehhh: yes, and how do they get it to the people? cheap phones and tablets (and settop boxes)
<Mehhh>
Let me know when Apple doesn't make kids in India and China so mad they sell kidneys to get an ipad
<oliv3r>
having a reference open SoC, would not be a bad idea
<oliv3r>
and they have motorolla mobility to make those reference designs
<oliv3r>
so to see if its viable, 10mil is nothing to them
<Mehhh>
America has the same thing a British accent does in the USA
<jinzo>
oliv3r, Google won't be making hardware directly for the forseeable future imo. As they relay on relatively good relations with too many hardware companies
<Mehhh>
Image of someting long past
<Mehhh>
Apple is proof that image works
<oliv3r>
reference design, not making their own platform
<jinzo>
Mehhh, yes - but we're not talking image here per se.
<Mehhh>
yes, yes we are
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<Mehhh>
Europe has it for fashion
<jinzo>
we're talking about companies releasing products only if they can release it in the USA
<oliv3r>
also, htc for example, doesn't care whether they use google open soource SoC or samsungs soc or qualcom's soc. They wanna sell you a phone
<Mehhh>
That was never true
<Mehhh>
ever
<Mehhh>
in fact, ten years ago the best phones were in Japan
<Mehhh>
Korea
<Mehhh>
We're just now catching up
<Mehhh>
with availability
<jinzo>
and that the USA market is the biggest most important market for them - for example: look at the new Nexus lunch
<oliv3r>
Mehhh: where are you from?
<Mehhh>
USA of course
<oliv3r>
because 10 years ago, it was 'nokia' that was leading the phone industrie, right here in europe
<Mehhh>
I used to pay people to get me phones from japan
<Mehhh>
stationed there
<Mehhh>
Nokia, rofl
<oliv3r>
ah yes, USA has always been catching up on the phone market :
<oliv3r>
:p
<Mehhh>
again, nokia was image
<Mehhh>
Japan had tech Nokia copied
<jinzo>
stuff like that will, with all the patent battles, all the nonsense around Huawei and alike soon perish
<Mehhh>
Sharp, Panasonic
<Mehhh>
etc
<jinzo>
and they'll stock EU/Russia first
<Mehhh>
The point is that the USA is only getting better devices, not the other way around
<jinzo>
look at how good Huawei is doing, at what price range are they lunching new hardware
<Mehhh>
it used to have the worst
<Mehhh>
Now, Africa is getting better 4g than europe
<Mehhh>
sad
<jinzo>
because we know HSDPA+ (that's 3G) uses less battery and offers good speeds?
<Mehhh>
Not anymore
<Mehhh>
battery drain mAh per MB
<Mehhh>
is officially less on LTE now (for current gen devices)
<Mehhh>
Try again
<jinzo>
you'll notice that EU has quite a good infrastructure (generally) from mobile networks to internet networks
<Mehhh>
I never said they didn't
<jinzo>
ah? Didn't notice that in any of the current reviews I read
<Mehhh>
That's the only reason Apple finally put it in their device
<jinzo>
the lack of LTE in new nexus was widely assumed because of battery drain
<Mehhh>
It has LTE
<jinzo>
not activated/whetever
<Mehhh>
...and they figured out how to enable it
<Mehhh>
it was done to save $$
<Mehhh>
because they have to pay to use that tech
<jinzo>
yes - sure. I'm preatty sure they have to pay it when they make the actuall silicon :D
<oliv3r>
Nokia's 'image' is what even remotely lets them survive now, and that image is fading quickly. But back in the early 2000's, nokia was king of the phones; back then, USA had pathetic phones. It was the iPhone that brought the USA up to par with the rest of the world
<Mehhh>
Yes, but the license cost is more than the chip costs
<Mehhh>
Nokia wasn't, unless you were white in 2000
<oliv3r>
anyway, all that is history now. Google having funded (not owning) a SoC would still be a good thing :)
<oliv3r>
so lkcl try to talk ot google :)
<jinzo>
Mehhh, and you think the licensees would be "ok, just use software to disable it, and we're cool?"
<Mehhh>
I was getting that hot high res from Japan
<Mehhh>
from Navy guys
<Mehhh>
Yes
<Mehhh>
that is exactly the case
<Mehhh>
just like the A13 vs A10
<oliv3r>
I wouldn't be supprised that the A13 is simply broken/binned silicon
<jinzo>
you seem to know a lot about that tech, and you're not under a NDA
<Mehhh>
So? I have epic RSS feeds
<Mehhh>
you can import them in excel / GD now
<jinzo>
oliv3r, that's a bit different than just using high level software to disable it.
<Mehhh>
so i'm always on my game
<oliv3r>
jinzo: but then you can simply re-enable it ;)
<Mehhh>
For instance, Windows Starter edition had many files in the WIM image from other versions
<Mehhh>
every company does this after it becomes cheaper to include and disable
<Mehhh>
Apple with Siri
<Mehhh>
ATI / Nvidia and OEM gpus
<Mehhh>
Intel with the Xeon E3's
<Mehhh>
i'm just being a realist.
<Mehhh>
does anyone here know if the USB A can be sub'd for a Micro USB female with the 4->5 trick on the MK802?
<jinzo>
Mehhh, oliv3r the difference is with high level disable (like Googles LTE) or low level disable (like AMD's 3 core processors, RPI's videocore IV)
<Mehhh>
The Xeon is a rebadged I7
<Mehhh>
the E3
<Mehhh>
the real world voltages run the exact same
<jinzo>
the low level disable is not that easy to overcome, (with AMD you had to re connect some vias), and tell me when a new video codec for Videocore IV will be released
<jinzo>
or the bios flashes of some AMD/ATI video cards
<jinzo>
far from easy, even for techies.
<oliv3r>
imo, video core should be something like a little FPGA in the SoC so you can update the video codecs :)
<Gumboot>
What's disabled in VideoCore?
<Mehhh>
Here is the perfect example: Intel had 3-4 CPUs where you could "unlock" cache and mhz
<oliv3r>
I used to flash my video bios on my radeon 9700 :D
<Mehhh>
for 50$
<oliv3r>
a lot of single/dual/tripple cores could be unlocked to quad or hexa cores.
<Mehhh>
the Nexus 4 can be "unlocked" to LTE, or you can buy the Optimus G
<jinzo>
Mehhh, I agree - it's a fact everyone does this - but when they do it they do it on a level that is not fixable from high level code (as with nexuses LTE)
<jinzo>
oliv3r, yes - but not easly
<oliv3r>
jinzo: bios option!
<jinzo>
flashing a video bios is not easy too, adding MPEG2 to Videocore IV is not easy too (if you don't pay for it ofcourse)
<Mehhh>
jinzo, this is LG we're talking about ;)
<jinzo>
oliv3r, on the graphic card? didn't see that one comming
<oliv3r>
jinzo: na CPU's!
<oliv3r>
flashing video bios was easy as running a commandline tool and flashing the rom
<jinzo>
the last time I checked it was quite a adventure - but I'm not into graphic cards
<oliv3r>
in my case, we simply took the 9700Pro bios and flashed it onto a 9700
<jinzo>
oh - and who made it? I guessed we're talking about the process to create that
<oliv3r>
but this was old skool
<Mehhh>
anyone here solder on their MK802?
<slapin>
Mehhh: /me soldered a lot on mk802 clones
<Mehhh>
Do you know if the OTG trick works on the USB A ports?
<slapin>
Mehhh: what OTG trick?
<jinzo>
Gumboot, regarding VideoCore IV - you can buy additional software codecs (for decode only afaik) from them now.
<Mehhh>
solder 1st / 2nd pin on the mini-usb to enable otg
<Mehhh>
I'm trying to figure out the easiest and (size wise) thinnest way to get a micro-usb on the device
<Gumboot>
I don't think they sell any software video codecs.
<Gumboot>
VP8 and Theora would be the only ones I know of which are done in software, and to the best of my knowledge they've never bothered to make those available.
<jinzo>
Gumboot, I meant additional software for the VideoCore IV, that get's uploaded I presume
<jinzo>
and enables it - not sure how it actually works
<jinzo>
ah a license I see.
<Mehhh>
oh snap
<jinzo>
so looks like a license key only enables it
<Gumboot>
Yeah. It's a cost-down.
<Gumboot>
Do you need to buy MPEG4, as well?
<jinzo>
afaik no. You even get the encoding of MPEG4. But it's been quite some time I followed RPi stuff.
<Gumboot>
Does it detect and cripple DivX files?
<jinzo>
they did so many mistakes when they lunched, some even out of pure ignorance if you ask me
<Gumboot>
Encoding is easier because any video you encode in MPEG4 is implicitly not DivX unless you're using their encoder. Decode requires detection, though.
<Gumboot>
It's too early for lunch, here.
<jinzo>
and since then I'm not really a fan. I respect what they're doing but - there's a lot of alternatives out there.
<Mehhh>
Has anyone ever made a cable that goes in the back portion of a MiniUSB port
<Mehhh>
so no-one has tried OTG via main USB?
<Mehhh>
i mean, using a 5pin USB->MicroUSB has the same effect, correct?
<hno>
orly_owl, only aliexpress. Why do you want ebay?
<orly_owl>
dont have an aliexpress account
<hno>
it's one minute to set one up.
<orly_owl>
too long!
<slapin>
orly_owl, hno: aliexpress doesn't support paypal
<slapin>
that's proper reason
<slapin>
ti prefer ebay
<orly_owl>
yeah i remember they ended that parternship
<slapin>
s/ti/to/
<ibot>
slapin meant: to prefer ebay
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<oliv3r>
libv: working on lima again? THought you where doing the display stuff only for now. i'm excited!
<oliv3r>
speaking of pay pal, hipboi didn't reply to my e-mail :S
<libv>
oliv3r: when did you last see any disp code from me?
<libv>
a month ago or so :)
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<oliv3r>
yeah! you lazy bum haven't posted much latly :p
<oliv3r>
jk
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<libv>
:)
<libv>
you'll be so unhappy once you see that 4500triangle companion cube rotating away at 40+fps :)
<xenoxaos>
oooooh
<xenoxaos>
lima's only for the 2/400 right?
<libv>
xenoxaos: how long has the exynos 5 been out?
<oliv3r>
libv: show me the money! (I patently awate the phoronix news post)
<xenoxaos>
i got my chromebook ~1-2 weeks after it came out...
<xenoxaos>
little over a month i think
<libv>
how long did i spend REing the mali200/400 before i showed the first triangle on fosdem?
<xenoxaos>
:P
<libv>
xenoxaos: there is about an 11 month gap there
<libv>
so t6xx is fundamentally different from mali200/400
* xenoxaos
didnt know the details of the core
<libv>
we might find some similarities, but we are still too busy working on the mali200/400
<libv>
we are not feature complete enough to be able to start writing an actual driver.
<xenoxaos>
just demo calls written specificially to do a specific task?
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<xenoxaos>
specificially specific....i need sleep
<libv>
what is there is a library which has an interface which is surprisingly close to a gl workflow
<libv>
and a handful of tests, each improving functionality
<xenoxaos>
if i knew what the fuck i was doing, i'd help
<libv>
4000+ tri mesh, with a texture, spinning away at 40fps is not too bad for an REed driver, given the time i have been able to spend on lima in the last year (which has changed now, but more on that on the phoronix forums)
<libv>
err s/forums/post/
<libv>
on the shader side, the vertex shader is quite insane, which makes it very efficient, but there for instance seems little possibility to write an assembler for it
<libv>
the only thing that makes sense is going straight for a compiler
<libv>
there is an assembler for the fragment shader though
<libv>
this should be better with the unified shaders of the t6xx
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<libv>
but first we do the mali200/400, this gpu will be sold for the next 3-4 years anyway
* xenoxaos
wants just a decent 2d accelerated x11 driver that works across the board....
<xenoxaos>
a man can dream right?
<libv>
xenoxaos: has nothing to do with the mali
<xenoxaos>
i know
<libv>
xenoxaos: and the task of creating that for the a10 is pretty straightforward
<oliv3r>
isn't most/all 2d stuff open sourced by arm themselves? it's just the 3d bit that's closed, right?
<libv>
oliv3r: this is allwinner specific silicon
<libv>
oliv3r: arm makes the kernel driver available to abide by the gpl, and some glue code, like gralloc, ump and some ump using x11 driver
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<Turl>
does anyone know what pins does UART use over the uSD interface?
<RaYmAn>
did you check the wiki? I think it's documented there
<Turl>
do you need to do any vodoo to get bootloader to output to it?
<mnemoc>
counts as different board
<mnemoc>
sun4i_sd on the lichee-dev branch to get a nanda's u-boot.bin with uSD breakout output
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<hno>
Turl, you need at minimum a script.bin with debug uart set to the SD port. Preferably a full immage install with thise settings so you get boot0/boot1 output as well.
<hno>
and a nand u-boot version with uart directed to sd.
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<Turl>
ok, I'll give it a try later
<Turl>
when the wiki says "uart connection: rx" does it mean "it's rx and should be connected to the adapter tx" or "it's tx, connect to adapter's rx"?
<libv>
how many known supported devices do we have anyway? beyond mele (2x), mk802 (2x), olinuxino and cubieboard?
<libv>
there's the a7hd which is known good
<libv>
any other tablets?
<Turl>
libv: I have a zatab
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<libv>
Turl: in sunxi-boards and uboot-sunxi?
<libv>
sunxi-boards tells a pretty dire story
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<Turl>
I uploaded the script.bin on sunxi-board
<Mehhh>
Hackaberry
<Mehhh>
libv
<Turl>
libv: but I couldn't stop uboot to dump the mem settings from boot0/1 to make a proper mmc board definition
<Mehhh>
and the Mini-X
<RaYmAn>
I have a couple of 'Jazz' A13 tablets I need to add in as well
<libv>
Turl: there's a userspace tool for it now
<libv>
ainol devices seem to be strangely lacking
<Turl>
libv: and I got an uSD breakout now :)
<Turl>
mnemoc: how do you build sun4i_sd?
<Turl>
mnemoc: "make sun4i_sd" seems to be broken
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<Turl>
I had to move sun4i.h to a10-evb.h for it to build
<Turl>
mnemoc: woot it works :)
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<mnemoc>
Turl: that's probably a bug in boards.cfg
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<mnemoc>
compare it with plain sun4i
<Turl>
the only diff I see is that the sd one has an extra field, a10-evb:SD_UART
<mnemoc>
change for sun4i:SD_UART
<Turl>
mnemoc: how do you disable mmc?
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<Turl>
mnemoc: I get uart output until mmc driver kicks in :<
<Turl>
nvm, I think I found it
<Turl>
I was looking for mmc_used but apparetly it's sdc_used
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<mnemoc>
Turl: sure, you also need to change script.bin acordingly
<Turl>
yep, seems to work now that I disabled it
<Turl>
mnemoc: I cannot seem to be able to stop uboot though
<Turl>
it's like waiting time is 0
<mnemoc>
the u-boot env is raw in a nand partition iirc
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<Turl>
mnemoc: how can I test if I wired the tx part right?
<mnemoc>
on userspace...
<Turl>
what about it mnemoc?
<mnemoc>
setup a ttySn on script.bin and then listen to it on userspace
<Turl>
I'm using "cat" to listen to it and I don't get anything
<Turl>
echo text > /dev/ttyS0 works
<mnemoc>
be sure no one else has /dev/ttyS0 taken
<mnemoc>
or it might be eating your input
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<Turl>
nope, no luck
<Turl>
maybe I misconfigured it on script.bin?
<Turl>
I got port:PF04<2><1><default><default>
<Turl>
as rx
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<jquip>
man I'm getting a bit fried in the head with getting u-boot.bin happening for my device... why does my tablet boot erratically? it makes me wait for about a minute.. it switches on only about 3 out of 10 times i power on the device...