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<DocScrutinizer05>
Fsck U Putin!
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think the Ukrainian Government should ask Nato for help, just like those speznaz forces in eastern cities ask Putin to send (more, official) troops
<DocScrutinizer05>
if they did and Nato (or any arbitrary EU country with strong military forces, e.g. France, Germany, UK) would actually send massive contingents to Ukraine, then Putin would rethink his tactics, since the net result then was the exact opposite of what he tries to achieve
<ysionneau>
yes but even if they did, I don't think France or Germany would send any troop anywhere
<ysionneau>
they don't even shout at poutine
<ysionneau>
they won't send troops against him
<DocScrutinizer05>
blue helmet peace forces with a strong mandate, to enforce peace in all Ukrainian regions ntil proper elections done
<ysionneau>
and since Russia is in Security council at NATO , any resolution against poutine at Nato is impossible
<larsc>
we obviously don't want to freeze during the winter ;)
<ysionneau>
yes larsc :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
ysionneau: WUT?
<DocScrutinizer05>
russia a member of Nato now?
<ysionneau>
Russia has "cancel vote" power in NATO no?
<DocScrutinizer05>
o.O
<ysionneau>
ah no
<ysionneau>
I'm mixing with UN
<ysionneau>
sorry
<larsc>
nato is the anti-russia
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, thought as much. My fault since I mentioned blue helmets
<DocScrutinizer05>
which *are* UN
<ysionneau>
yep ok
<DocScrutinizer05>
but I think UN mandates can get decided upon without Russia agreeing
<larsc>
poland actually already ask for NATO help, because they fear they are next
<DocScrutinizer05>
and if not, then so what. We had no UN mandate for Libya
<ysionneau>
DocScrutinizer05: they can without russia agreeing, but I think they can't with russia disagreement
<ysionneau>
yes not a problem
<ysionneau>
you will just not send UN forces
<ysionneau>
you will send something else
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm afraid we won't
<DocScrutinizer05>
EU are sissies
<ysionneau>
but I really don't think that France or Germany would move a single finger
<DocScrutinizer05>
ack
<ysionneau>
it's not in their geopolitical interest
<ysionneau>
(aka gaz)
<DocScrutinizer05>
while i#m absolutely sure a peace mission would be the way better idea than embargos against russia
<dos1>
[19:44] <larsc> poland actually already ask for NATO help, because they fear they are next
<whitequark>
a peace mission?
<dos1>
Poland is in NATO, so attacking Poland means attacking NATO
<dos1>
a bit different situation than with Ukraine
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's much harder to argue for Putin why Russia will stop gas when a EU peace corps moves into Ukraine when asked to do so
<ysionneau>
sending military for peace always appeared strange to me
<ysionneau>
but I guess I'm too naive
<DocScrutinizer05>
than when EU announces embargo against Russia
<larsc>
ysionneau: we bring you peace and democracy ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, you can either send military or hores to stop enemy military
<DocScrutinizer05>
whores even
<ysionneau>
yeah bringing peace and democracy with guns, it feels so old school colonialist shit
<whitequark>
or destroy them from within
<ysionneau>
like EU did in Africa
<ysionneau>
or USA
<whitequark>
like USA did on middle east numerous times
<ysionneau>
we, bright white guys, are bringing science, democracy religion and almost intelligence to you poor dumbass black retarted people
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: well, there's a thing that would work
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: close russian borders *from outside*.
<ysionneau>
and we take some bits of natural resources as a "thank you"
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: btw how's your local front? already first casualities during demonstartions for truth in Russian media?
<whitequark>
lenta.ru (the leading outlet) has resigned in its entirety a few months ago
<whitequark>
I'm not sure there's anything else left
<ysionneau>
larsc: ahah :)
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: (close from outside) right now, most of the dissenters who are actually capable of doing anything just face the fact and decide to flee
<whitequark>
if they could not, however...
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmmm
<DocScrutinizer05>
you think that's clever?
<whitequark>
in what way?
<whitequark>
I mean, it does make everyone else look like a bunch of dicks
<whitequark>
but it's probably the fastest non-nuclear-winter-causing way to end putin's regime
<DocScrutinizer05>
to "imprison" opposition and dissidents into the kingdom of evil
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, actually makes us all look like dickheads
<whitequark>
it would probably wise to phrase it smth like "let those most qualified to deal with evil themselves"
<whitequark>
but yea
<whitequark>
depends on what is more important to you, not looking bad or dethroning putin :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I nice Machiavellian idea, but pretty hard to communicate
<DocScrutinizer05>
tbh I don't give a shit about putin, as long as he keeps his sticky fingers with him and not in foreign affairs
<DocScrutinizer05>
the rest is actually up to the russian people
<larsc>
he probably thinks the same about you
<DocScrutinizer05>
I however think we should beat his fingers really hard when he tries to simply grab neighbor countries "because he can"
<whitequark>
"the rest is actually up to DocScrutinizer05's people" ?
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: isn't that basically how all international politics is done"
<whitequark>
you do shit because you can, and then try to wrap it into whatever "laws" are convenient
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
<whitequark>
I guess EU decided that the cost of war is higher than potential loss from annexion of Crimea/UA
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's basically what everybody thinks, worldwide
<whitequark>
not entirely unlike to NK
<DocScrutinizer05>
a shame it's the standard equation used to decide about any engagement
<DocScrutinizer05>
but actually I think an embargo by EU to russia is *more expensive* for EU than sending peace troops to Ukraine
<whitequark>
I wonder. what does EU export to RU?
<DocScrutinizer05>
err, a lot
<larsc>
trains
<larsc>
or rather train tracks
<DocScrutinizer05>
the whole embargo idea is based on the assumption that Putin would care about oligarchs. He prolly doesn't
<whitequark>
*of course* he doesn't. he only cares about himself.
<whitequark>
I wonder what moron thought otherwise
<larsc>
merkel is afraid of dogs and putin always brings a big dog when they meet
<DocScrutinizer05>
merkel is a fool pretending to be a sock puppet - or the other way around
<larsc>
btw. what's in it for russia?
<DocScrutinizer05>
?
<larsc>
taking over ukraine
<whitequark>
well, you can't improve economics. what else can you do to keep yourself on the throne?
<whitequark>
expansion
<DocScrutinizer05>
warshaw pact reloaded
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<DocScrutinizer05>
err, USSR reloaded
<DocScrutinizer05>
larsc: actually Ukraine becoming a success story destabilizes Russia and particularly Putin's power a lot
<DocScrutinizer05>
so Putin's plan is not exactly to swallow Ukraine. It's absolutely sufficient when Ukraine implodes as result from the maidan demonstrations
<whitequark>
that too
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<larsc>
so just some powerplay to strengthen his position inside russia?
<DocScrutinizer05>
internal problems for putin already start to become obvious - just today (aiui) there been a rather huge demonstration in Moscow against that government directed media propaganda in Russia
<DocScrutinizer05>
larsc: first instance yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
putin tries to roll back all that glasnost and dunnowhat "shit" that happened to Russia/USSR
<DocScrutinizer05>
he's pretty pissed about that "democratic" stuff, and doesn't like the fact that the president isn't nominated for lifetime anymore
<whitequark>
ugh. USA DoE revoked access for all russian scientists
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, the russian activity of last ~3 days *will* cause reactions. Much more than only this
<DocScrutinizer05>
still I guess Putin gives a flying F about it
<DocScrutinizer05>
in Donyezk a guy in military uniform to local police lined up in front of him: "I'm <general asshole> from the Russian military, and this guy here is your new police president"
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually every single word of Putin and his sock puppets is a lie.
<DocScrutinizer05>
carefully listening to him and then assuming he will - always - do the exact opposite of what he's telling is probbaly the more reasonable approach
<DocScrutinizer05>
Putin: "Russia will of course continue to deliver gas to EU as usual. However there's a risk of Ukraine stealing gas from that pipeline for themselves" Translation: "we will reduce gas deliveries and blame Ukraine for the deficit"
<DocScrutinizer05>
Putin: "we don't interfere with inner ukrainian affairs. that's not our interest" translation: "we will make sure the troops we send will not publicly state they are russian troops"
<DocScrutinizer05>
Putin: "I'm worried about the safety of <russian> citizens in $* in Ukraine" Translation: "we will make sure that the troops we send will act in a scary and aggressive way against any pro-ukrainian people"
<wpwrak>
guess he was exposed to too much western propaganda ;)
<wpwrak>
"we don't interfere" = "we're just returning fire when attacked by terrorists"
<DocScrutinizer05>
Putin: "Ukraine government are fascists" Translation: "though soon Russia/me will rule all of Ukraine by a totalitarian system of authorities and executive, I'm not a fascist, I only use their methods"
<larsc>
or when we "find" WMDs ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
wasn't it Putin who said "Bush been an idiot. *I* would've found those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!"
<DocScrutinizer05>
two soldiers moving into building with one large brown box. 10 minutes pass by. Same 2 soldiers leave building with two smaller green boxes, showing them to TV reporters. They open the two boxes, some 2 technically looking devices can be seen inside. The soldiers explain that these are the terribly dangerous new atomic devices they looked for
<DocScrutinizer05>
they close the boxes, pay the reporters, and drive away direction next whore house
<DocScrutinizer05>
with the terribly dangerous atomic devices
<DocScrutinizer05>
somebody inspecting the building finds a huge brown box with a writing: "US Army. Educational material"
<DocScrutinizer05>
empty
<DocScrutinizer05>
depending on scenario and participants, make the writing "Russian Army"
<DocScrutinizer05>
for something completely different: I wanna cp -a a complete directory /x/ to /a/x/. When I do 'cp -a /x/ /a/x/ first time, I get exactly what I want. Second time though I get a result of /a/x/x/
<DocScrutinizer05>
what am I doing wrong?
<DocScrutinizer05>
(sorry for ultra-noob question, I'm not really at level with my mental powers today)
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: try slashing the slash, so to say
<DocScrutinizer05>
?
<whitequark>
cp -a /x /a/
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, I think I already tried that
<whitequark>
or cp -a /x /a/x
<DocScrutinizer05>
might try that
<dos1>
the first one
<dos1>
second one behaves like with slash at the end
<DocScrutinizer05>
"I can say, and I am responsible for what I am saying, that they have started to commit suicide under the walls of Baghdad. We will encourage them to commit more suicides quickly."
<DocScrutinizer05>
he had true moments though: >>"That bastard the American Minister of Defense Rumsfeld, and I won't say shamelessly, because they don't know what shame means. These are criminals. The whole word can hear the warning sirens. This criminal sitting in the White House is a pathetic criminal and his Defense Minister deserves to be beaten. These criminals lie to the world because they are criminals by nature and conditioning. They consider
<DocScrutinizer05>
this a military site! Shame on you! You will forever be shamed! You have ruined the reputation of the American people in the most terrible way! Shame on you! And we will destroy you!"<< except the very last sentence
<whitequark>
yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
golden! >>"Yes, the american troops have advanced further. This will only make it easier for us to defeat them"<<
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<wpwrak>
can't say he was wrong about that. instead of iraqis having to travel to the US to kill US-americans, they got them air-delivered en masse basically right at their doorstep
<DocScrutinizer05>
hey, how can you defeat somebody at his home?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
he didn't say "this allows us" but "this makes it easier". Though this is correct formal logic, it is nonsense in a conversation beween humans
<DocScrutinizer05>
I can even make it nonsense in formal logic: opportunity to defeat X on X's own ground: 0. multiplication factor for "easier": N. 0 * N = 0
<DocScrutinizer05>
unless my idea of what defeat means isn't correct
<wpwrak>
"how can you defeat somebody at his home?" you mean "at your home" ? well, russia pulled that one off with napoleon and then again with the nazis who were apprently too superior to study that particular piece of history. of course, slightly different circumstances. i'm sure winter is nicer in iraq than somewhere in a trench in russia.
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry, probbaly my semantics of "defeat" were incorrect. Somewhere closer to "defend"
<DocScrutinizer05>
"to defeat": "to stop somebody's advance or victory"
<DocScrutinizer05>
^^^ incorrect, I guess
<wpwrak>
yeah, depends on the granularity. if you talk about individual soldiers, he was quite right. if you talk about the US forces in general, not so much
<DocScrutinizer05>
in my definition "to defeat X at home" been analog to "stop a standing car"
<DocScrutinizer05>
seems I have to completely redifine the meaning of "to defeat" for my vocabulary
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<DocScrutinizer05>
shit happens with foreign languages, particularly when the term isn't technical
<wpwrak>
ah, that sounds like an odd definition indeed :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
on the bright side I know what "eventually" means
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<wpwrak>
yeah, that trips a lot of german speakers :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, I just notice that neither "to fend" nor "to feat" are in my passive vocabulary. So no surprise I misinterpreted "to defeat"