Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
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<qi-bot>
Jon Phillips (RT Qi Hardware(1)): RT @qihardware: @xiangfu <xiangfu> make Ben Nanonote access Wireless over USB by using OpenWrt router : http://t.co/9a8iwkbq ( 223685638027878400@qihardware - 14s ago via web )
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<qi-bot>
Jon Phillips: @qihardware @xiangfu this is great to see that the @milkymistvj is now wireless enabled! Order yours today! ( 223685732903030784@rejon - 52s ago via web )
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<he2>
does anyone want to buy my nanonote
<he2>
i have no time to use it and i would like to give it to someone who has more time and fun with it
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<kuribas>
hellekin: how much?
<kuribas>
I meant he2...
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<kyak>
it would be funny to sell for 130 USD, which is bigger than the original price but still smaller than the current price :)
<kyak>
!seen he2
<qi-bot>
kyak, he2 (~he2@95-89-147-151-dynip.superkabel.de) was last seen quitting #qi-hardware 1 hour 16 minutes ago (13.07. 10:14) stating "Ping timeout: 252 seconds" after spending 59 minutes there.
<wpwrak>
buy low, sell high ;-)
<larsc>
hm, maybe wolfgang should have annouced the price change two weeks before it was done. Maybe somebody would have bough the whole stock in the hopes of being able to sell it later at a higher price
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<wpwrak>
that's an interesting idea ;-)
<wpwrak>
of course, anyone who buys the whole stock can set any price they want ...
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<larsc>
well, the current stock
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<wpwrak>
may be hard to make more at the present time. after all, it's been several years since the last run. eventually, that fab will throw away their old stock of parts, tools, and such.
<larsc>
I still remember as if it was yesterday when I had my first nanonote prototype on my desk
<wpwrak>
your firstborn :)
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<kristianpaul>
morning
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<wpwrak>
hmm. i wonder what the general rule of thumb is when it comes to solder paste and through-hole components. is solder paste commonly applied to the copper rings around holes ? never ? sometimes ?
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<kristianpaul>
sometimes..
<kristianpaul>
after trial and error ;)
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<wpwrak>
hmm :) what determines the decision ?
<kristianpaul>
time for the estaño/solder to stick on the pad? also shape and brighness
<kristianpaul>
when aplying heat^
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<wpwrak>
hmm ..
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<kristianpaul>
*g*
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<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: basically thru-hole isn't meant for reflow ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
SMT and thru-hole are incompatible technologies. Starting with foamwave-solder-bath vs reflow
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<wpwrak>
what if you have a board that has both types of components ? would you apply solder paste to the copper of through-hole components ? never ? don't care ? always ?
<wpwrak>
i wonder how they do it in real life. applying solder paste may be quite hard if you have TH components on the board, so you'd probably always do SMT first
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd maybe try to apply lots
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<wpwrak>
but then, how do you solder the TH components ? maybe manually ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess usually manually
<wpwrak>
e.g., milkymist has a ton of through-hole connectors
<wpwrak>
(lots) ... of solder paste ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
hoping for it to flow 'into' the hole
<kristianpaul>
hmm
<wpwrak>
hmm. not sure if this works. already your stencil should have just one thickness
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually you'd need so much that it covers the hole, and you stick the TH-wire of component thru it
<wpwrak>
yeah :)
<wpwrak>
doesn't sound like the normal way of applying solder paste :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's incompatible
<wpwrak>
but i wonder if there may be other reasons for putting solder paste on the TH copper rings
<DocScrutinizer05>
easier soldering afterwords
<DocScrutinizer05>
manual
<wpwrak>
yup, along these lines
<wpwrak>
also, i could imagine that some types of surface finish don't survive SMT. so solder paste could then replace them. e.g., those inexpensive "organic" finishes.
<wpwrak>
otherwise, you'd have to apply a more durable finish, which could mean considerably higher cost (e.g., if this would be the only place where you need it)
<wpwrak>
but all this are just wild guesses
<roh>
wpwrak: afaik you do smt mounting first, and then do the through-hole in a wave-soldering machine
<DocScrutinizer05>
on singlesided SMT that may work
<DocScrutinizer05>
since soldering sides of SMT and TH components on same side are actually opposite
<DocScrutinizer05>
don't forget the "ancient" names "component side" and "soldering side"
<roh>
DocScrutinizer05: afaik you protect smt parts with kapton tape from the wave if you have doublesided
<DocScrutinizer05>
I wouldn't argue
<DocScrutinizer05>
though you should make damn sure then taht the solder wave doesn't deposit solder under the kapton on the corners
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually I guess it's an evaluation of manpower costs for manual soldering vs material for wave-soldering
<wpwrak>
roh: and do you solder paste the copper around TH holes ? always ? never ? don't care ? it depends ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: basically there is no such thing as "copper around TH holes" on SMT side
<wpwrak>
if we assume a double-sided board, you'd have SMT on both sides
<DocScrutinizer05>
s.SMT side.component side.
<wpwrak>
so would you deposit solder paste on the TH copper ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<wpwrak>
(comp side) i mean SMT components on both sides
<roh>
wpwrak: dunno
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: and why would you deposit solder paste on the TH copper ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
the wave-solder machine will thank it
<wpwrak>
heh :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
better solder than anything else on the copper
<DocScrutinizer05>
since anything else is $dirt
<wpwrak>
well, could be bare gold
<DocScrutinizer05>
mho
<DocScrutinizer05>
you would place gold on solder pads? :-O
<DocScrutinizer05>
dang you must be rich
<wpwrak>
you basically have four choices: naked copper (not a happy choice for sure), some not very durable finish, a durable finish, and your regular finish, plus solder paste
<roh>
afaik usually one does it either like in the photos i pasted the url to, or for lower volumes: manually.
<roh>
so.. smt automatic placement and soldering, and add the through-holes by hand.
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: seems to be pretty common. and doesn't seem to affect the price a lot.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep, and solderpaste on ds-pcb for the TH-pads is nothing bad
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, even gold doesn't mind a solder layer on it
<DocScrutinizer05>
solder gets liquid in wave-solder-engine and you get best possible solder-joint
<DocScrutinizer05>
and for 'connecting' the solder to gold, solderpaste is no worse than wave-solder
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<DocScrutinizer05>
mho
<wpwrak>
if someone didn't put solder paste there (and assuming you had a decent finish, so you won't have a layer of coper oxide to worry about), would you consider this a bug ?
<roh>
i actually prefer gold on all mechanical througholes and no solder if its not a joint. so even dnp-part-pads shouldnt have solder.
<DocScrutinizer05>
ack
<roh>
on the mechanicals solder is a problem because its modifies the thickness of material, its not really 'even' and dia of throughholes are off
<DocScrutinizer05>
solder(-paste) *only* where components will be 30 min later
<DocScrutinizer05>
and for goldplated pads it's arguable
<roh>
how were the mm1 rc3 made?
<roh>
i guess manual throughhole soldering?
<DocScrutinizer05>
prolly
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: you expect chemical deterioration of the solder if left in the air for too long ? (it'll have been heated, so it's no longer solder paste)
<wpwrak>
roh: manual seems likely
<DocScrutinizer05>
heard of jolla? Wonder if they will consider my application
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway, time for dinner & booze
<roh>
*g*
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<Ayla>
guys, is the "cache" instruction present on the jz4740? I'm getting an "illegal instruction" here