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<qi-bot>
[commit] David K
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: the ones i use the most are straight and angled tweezers
<wpwrak>
both with pointy ends
<wpwrak>
i use the straight to pick up components and the angled one to position them and to hold them down while soldering
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<whitequark>
kristianpaul: +1 on tweezers advice
<whitequark>
and get the ones with _really_ sharp ends
<whitequark>
and preferably a good, hard steel
<whitequark>
the combination of these two factors is best for tiny smd components.
<DocScrutinizer>
wolfspraul: wpwrak: any news about mickey?
<DocScrutinizer>
[2012-03-25 14:06:43] [Whois] mickeyl ist seit 52 Tagen, 14 Stunden, 3 Minuten und 43 Sekunden untätig.
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<wolfspraul>
DocScrutinizer: I don't know, but since he had a kid maybe he just left active voluntary coding for now?
<DocScrutinizer>
maybe
<wolfspraul>
first priority is kid, second priority make money for family, and after that pretty much the only desire is sleep :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
a bit concerning though
<DocScrutinizer>
hope he's well
<wolfspraul>
we should definitely assume so
<DocScrutinizer>
good :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
thanks
<wolfspraul>
well, I am guessing, but since he had a kid I'd say that's most likely the reason
<wolfspraul>
he's really gone everywhere? no more irc/chatting, no more commits, no more conferences, no more nothing?
<DocScrutinizer>
above is whois info
<DocScrutinizer>
I dunno more than that
<wolfspraul>
I don't know exactly what this whois monitors.
<DocScrutinizer>
he has annoying habit to use ~25 different nicks
<DocScrutinizer>
none of which except mickeyl is logged in to #openmoko-cdevel
<DocScrutinizer>
whois monitors last post
<DocScrutinizer>
(or possibly other activity as well)
<DocScrutinizer>
I'll scan the chanlog
<DocScrutinizer>
mompls
<DocScrutinizer>
shiiit we got those unbearable nlsu logs on #om-cdevel, not the nice searchable povbot/mgedmin logs
<DocScrutinizer>
so sorry but I have no clue if some mickey* logged in last 50 days, or posted something
<wolfspraul>
he will reappear
<DocScrutinizer>
whois doesn't take wildcards, for obvious reasons
<DocScrutinizer>
well, there's an issue with om infra, one machine seems down. do you by any chance have an idea what's the supposed status of git.openmoko.org?
<wolfspraul>
no
<wolfspraul>
BUT
<wolfspraul>
the big picture is known for years, and I'm sure nothing changed
<DocScrutinizer>
:nod:
<wolfspraul>
it's unfair to repeat the same analysis over and over again for years
<wolfspraul>
what is the point?
<DocScrutinizer>
analysis?
<wolfspraul>
we have started Qi years ago among other things for the reason that it was very hard/impossible to *continue* with Om in a culturally compatible way
<DocScrutinizer>
hmm
<DocScrutinizer>
nfc
<wolfspraul>
the analysis that the infrastructure is very maintenance heavy and that there is really nobody willing to take on that work
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<DocScrutinizer>
I'm just trying to help when pabs3 complains about git down
<wolfspraul>
afaik harald keeps paying server bills, out of good will, and roh is still sometimes trying to maintain a little
<DocScrutinizer>
yep
<wolfspraul>
move to other servers
<wolfspraul>
maybe the entire *.openmoko.org coudl be just set to read-only? :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
I'd not mind
<DocScrutinizer>
actually a sane move
<wolfspraul>
I follow the wiki a little and try to help (at minimum effort) where I can
<wolfspraul>
but I'd just set the whole thing to read-only, end the misery :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
wiki seems no problem at all
<wolfspraul>
except for infinite stream of spam
<DocScrutinizer>
I'd just like to mirror it somewhere
<wolfspraul>
which amazingly some volunteers keep deleting more or less manually all the time, for years :-)
<wolfspraul>
let's see who wears out first - the bots or the volunteers :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
o.O
<wolfspraul>
the real solution would be either to upgrade the wiki software and reduce the amount of spam, or to set the whole thing read-only
<wolfspraul>
neither of which will happen imho
<DocScrutinizer>
I haven't noticed any spam on wiki recently, which actually makes me wonder what's going on with my notifications about changes to monitored pages
<wolfspraul>
no spam? wow. wait, checking
<DocScrutinizer>
the meaningful edits to wiki as well seem rare as 29th of Feb
<wolfspraul>
cool, yes. spam is better! :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
so either set R/O or increase barriers to edit to a rather invincible level
<wolfspraul>
yes, maybe someone did something. cool.
<DocScrutinizer>
anyway this FIC rant in that mail is quite annoying
<wolfspraul>
sure, unfair
<wolfspraul>
but nothing will happen, so what :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
yeah
<DocScrutinizer>
whole issue is one of the servers is down, nothing unusual
<DocScrutinizer>
I'm not sure if git/svn is even meant to be in service, but for sure munin being down is odd
<DocScrutinizer>
let's see what Roh tells us when he's back from whatever he does at Sunday noon ;-)
<kyak>
mirko: if you have some time, please have a look here: https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/10834 (we've discussed this already some time ago). It seems that it breaks qt4 compilation and a bunch of qt4 related packages from qi-packages..
<DocScrutinizer>
btw a general advice regarding IRC and this chan: I suggest to set +F to some real person, since otherwise you might lose foundership of this channel completely whenever bot acts up. Also a bot is no real person to hold GC of #qi-hardware
<DocScrutinizer>
disclaimer: AIUI
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<DocScrutinizer>
e.g bot's account might get klined when bot misbehaves, and you hardly convince freenode stuff to unkline it again, just to administer this chan.
<DocScrutinizer>
also cloaks etc are hardly requested at freenode staff by a bot
<kristianpaul>
ergh digikry non-stock for a SMD0402 470F capacitor :-|
<DocScrutinizer>
0403 470F, I bet they don't have those on stock ;--)
<DocScrutinizer>
0402 even
* DocScrutinizer
idly wonders if such critter could be built, maybe for 30mV max voltage
<kristianpaul>
What replacement you suguest?
<kristianpaul>
argh
<kristianpaul>
-_-
<kristianpaul>
nv :)
<kristianpaul>
WHAT
<kristianpaul>
Shipping 1 lb. $39.00 - $46.00 !!
<DocScrutinizer>
haha, my N900 and my laptop have correct time, while two DCF77 radio controlled alarm clocks and the friggin HomeMatic CCU that is supposed to a ntp server still have winter time :-/
* kristianpaul
sigh
<DocScrutinizer>
yeah, prohibitively expensive for small birdseed
<kristianpaul>
:'(
<kristianpaul>
now what..
<DocScrutinizer>
ask fleabay
<DocScrutinizer>
it's not exactly like digi-K has a monopoly on 0402 - but almost
<kristianpaul>
:-|
<kristianpaul>
ebay have worst search eng for smd and passive stuff..
<kristianpaul>
interesting most common intem is a kit
<kristianpaul>
item*
* kristianpaul
will ended buying at local ebay..
<kristianpaul>
0402, indeed !
* kristianpaul
found an interesting smd sample book
<kristianpaul>
smd 0603, as 0402 seems really rare..
<kristianpaul>
or double the price..
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<shevek>
Does anyone know the memory map of uboot while it is running? Which parts are free (that is, can be used to upload code) when running in usb-boot mode? I need 2kB under 80004000 (stage1) and a lot anywhere (stage2). I'd like to use the same approach for software and hardware usbboot, but when I upload stage1 to 80002000, I think I'm overwriting something, because it doesn't work in software usbboot.
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<mth>
shevek: I don't know the answer, but if you're interested in a boot loader for the JZ with easier to read code, Ayla has made one: https://github.com/Ayla-/UBIBoot
<mth>
unlike u-boot, it doesn't try to be a mini OS, instead it just tries to get the kernel running as soon as possible
<shevek>
mth: Thanks, but the only reason I want it to work with uboot is that that's what other people have on their Ben, and telling them to install a different boot loader isn't really an option. ;-)
<mth>
ah ok
<shevek>
The stage2 isn't really a problem, because a random address is usually fine. But stage1 in hardware boot mode must be lower than 80004000 and it seems all that space is taken up by uboot.
<shevek>
Or there's some other difference that makes it not work. Possibly it doesn't like the sdram to be reinitialized, because that obviously already happened.
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<shevek>
Hurray for source diving. Uboot thinks it a good idea to write into the code it is about the start (assuming it is its own stage1) for passing a signal ("don't initialize memory"). Why oh why do they do that this way? This is pretty much guaranteed to break any custom stage1...
<Ayla>
they like it dirty
<shevek>
Appearantly. :-(
<shevek>
Well, now I know it I can easily work around it.
<DocScrutinizer>
well, now we know the reason why uBoot on openmoko been named "dirty moko"
<DocScrutinizer>
;)
<wpwrak>
u-boot is all about doing things the wrong way ;-)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: that "dirty", on the other hand, probably refers to the build having local changes with respect to the repository
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: maybe there's a patch in the build process or such
<shevek>
And for Godwin's sake: the nazis were using u-boots, too! :-P
<DocScrutinizer>
well, they also ate bread
<DocScrutinizer>
does this mean anything to us now?
<wpwrak>
and there are rumors that they even practiced personal hygiene
<shevek>
DocScrutinizer: No it's pretty much irrelevant, but that's the point of Godwin's law. ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
goswin is unknown here
<DocScrutinizer>
prolly for a reason
<shevek>
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
<DocScrutinizer>
we got enough fun with our contemporary skinhead assholes and other scum. Not that we had any more than other countries, au contraire. But we're a bit more sensitive to it
<shevek>
Which country is that? Germany?
<DocScrutinizer>
sure
<DocScrutinizer>
so godwin's law #1 doesn't apply here
<shevek>
Of course it does. As the discussion grows longer, there is more infomation in it. The probability of some information in there approaches 1 eventually. It may just approach it more slowly. ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
the probability to find a 500g goldbar in your slice of bread you're eating also raches one the more slices you eat
<shevek>
Exactly. :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
practically however it's highly unlikely to be able to cut a normal bread so a slice would contain a 500g bar of gold and you'd still try to eat it
<shevek>
Yes, and there's the problem of it being so slow that you most likely don't live long enough to finally experience it.
<wpwrak>
at least if you do, you'll realize your mistake immediately. that's a significant difference from the godwin scenario :)
<wpwrak>
(if you do) bit into gold, i mean
<DocScrutinizer>
just alike it's unlikely two normal germans use Nazi analogies in a discussion, no matter how long that discussuin will take
<wpwrak>
nonsense ;-)
<wpwrak>
ever been to any online discussion fora ? :)
<shevek>
wpwrak: He was talking about *normal* Germans. ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
exactly
<wpwrak>
hmm :)
<DocScrutinizer>
let's agree on the fact we here in germany are mostly thoroughly fed up with that idiot and all stuff around it, probably even more than the Jews, and it's not a very popular topic here unless some skinheads annoy your normal life and you have to beat them up. Thus Godwin isn't known here
<shevek>
Sounds reasonable.
<DocScrutinizer>
due to mere statistical thermodynamics your water in the pot on the fire might freeze, while heating up the surrunding air to several 1000 °C
<shevek>
Not all the water, conservation of energy doesn't allow that. But all the energy could be transferred into a single molecule, while the rest is frozen. ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
"oh well, the explosion that blew out my windows was casued by the water on my oven freezing in the pot" ;-P
<whitequark>
(but the actual intervals are somewhat different.)
<wpwrak>
hope you read the small print :)
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<whitequark>
pfft
<whitequark>
I'm already mad
<wpwrak>
i don't think it works that way :)
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<wolfspraul>
DocScrutinizer: thanks for pointing out the +F issue
<DocScrutinizer>
np
<wolfspraul>
you are by far more knowledgeable about irc than I am, so I just don't know
<wolfspraul>
the last drama was how 'we', the Qi community, could get some degree of control over the channel at all
<wolfspraul>
after a lot of this and that, I thought sort of the server/qi-bot is in control now and that means anyone we know
<DocScrutinizer>
actually atm only the bot can set +F on any other existing or new member of access list
<wolfspraul>
but don't ask me about details, they are probably all wrong so your help is the big light in the darkness :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
I'd guess you could sign a GC(?) paper with freenode, from your qi-hardware mail account, and that would imply you get +F on access list
<DocScrutinizer>
single-# channels are "owned" by GC, who also owns the brand or whatever is in the chan name
<DocScrutinizer>
assuming you "are" qi-hardware, you can fill out that form of freenode
<DocScrutinizer>
and gain GC status for #qi-hardware* namespace
<wolfspraul>
why?
<DocScrutinizer>
or you simply make the bot say /msg chanserv flags #qi-hardware wolfspraul +F
<wolfspraul>
I understand the theoretical need if the bot gets kicked etc, but feel a little lazy about this right now
<wpwrak>
and there i was, thinking nothing could hold you back when you heard of an opportunity to enjoy some bureaucracy ;-)
<wolfspraul>
yeah right
<DocScrutinizer>
haha
<Ayla>
hi
<Ayla>
Is it legal for me to read a file from a FAT32 partition, by using its short name?
<whitequark>
"legal" as in "will you get sued by M$"?
<Ayla>
I know there is a patent on that
<whitequark>
the patent is on long filenames
<whitequark>
and its validity AFAIK was not proven
<whitequark>
and if you're not in US you shouldn't care at all
<whitequark>
again, AFAIK
<wpwrak>
the 8+3 names are safe, yes. not sure if the VFAT patent hasn't already expired.
<Ayla>
that's great news, I thought it was the 8.3 filenames that were patented
<DocScrutinizer>
wolfspraul: basically the GC thing should be painless
<DocScrutinizer>
but if you have some control over the bot, it's no problem
<DocScrutinizer>
the bot is already +o, and chanserv commands wouldn't even need that. It's actually just a matter of making bot say the right oneline post
* Ayla
goes back to the code
<DocScrutinizer>
like quoted above
<Ayla>
oh, and thanks
<mth>
even if 8.3 was patented once, it's so old that it would be expired by now
<wpwrak>
8+3 comes from CP/M. and i think there, they stole it from the PDP-8 or such ;-)
<wolfspraul>
ok, I understand [+F] still just too lazy now to improve this
<mth>
MSX uses 8+3 and MSX-DOS is CP/M compatible
<wolfspraul>
plus it seems sort of under control right now, with the bot having the rights, that is lots of people with server access
<Ayla>
mth: ah, great
<Ayla>
I just need to identify the vmlinuz.bin file on the FAT table, and load it, and it should be all good
<mth>
root dir length has a fixed maximum, unlike subdirs
<mth>
I think somewhere in the boot sector it says how many sectors
<mth>
and also the start sector
<Ayla>
yes, I got all of that
<wpwrak>
mth: i was more thinking of the PDP-8 or -10. 1970es, not 80es. shortly after they realized that where was need for more than just one computer on the east coast and one on the west coast ;-)
<mth>
I never touched a computer before about 1984
<mth>
I was a kid at that time though
<Ayla>
mth: by the "boot sector" you mean the MBR, or the FAT32 boostrap code?
<mth>
did the PDP-8 use FAT as well, or only 8+3?
<wpwrak>
heh, seems that i was ahead of you a few years ;-) but that PDP stuff is also mostly legends and lore
<mth>
Ayla: the boot sector is sector 0 inside the FAT partition
<Ayla>
then yes, there's the info
<Ayla>
but it's not really useful, is it?
<wpwrak>
i did see a few real-life PDP-11, though. some made even halfway decent office machines. space-wise, i mean. the bigger ones were a bit too noisy, unless you were deaf already
<wpwrak>
(and of course too large. a full 19" rack for a tenth of the capabilities of a modern wristwatch)
<wpwrak>
Ayla: it tells you how the file system is organized
<wpwrak>
Ayla: you CAN also go by "standard structures", but that's rather dangerous
<mth>
wpwrak: about legends: at the local computer club they had a Burroughs machine that they managed to keep running while moving it, by quickly plugging it into each next socket they reached... apparently it had huge capacitors inside
<Ayla>
wpwrak: I don't care about that, I just need to load one single file :)