Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
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<whitequark>
wpwrak: actually it works, looks like the clamp diodes can manage with whatever current FT232 can provide
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<whitequark>
still, that's not quite the best modus operandi obviously
<wpwrak>
with the clamps, you're within 200 mV or better anyway
<wpwrak>
still, they're not really designed for constant maximum load
<whitequark>
yeah, I'll replace that with open-drain scheme when I'd attach the uC
<whitequark>
the modules even provide VDD-EXT specifically for pull-ups
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<kristianpaul>
btw some one in the local-es mail list, is asking for spectec wifi modules
<kristianpaul>
any idea where to buy then?
<kristianpaul>
yes, we still have a local-es list ;-) thanks tuxbrain i guess
<wolfspra1l>
I was thinking about deleting it the other day :-)
<wolfspra1l>
all we can do about the spectec wifi card is to tell people to stay away
<wolfspra1l>
it's so wrong from so many angles, and there is no hope for anything good in the future
<roh>
hehe
<roh>
yeah. still.. somehow it would be nice to find some working spi-wifi at some point.
<wpwrak>
talking about spectec or the list ? ;-)
<roh>
do we have evaluated the zydas stuff?
<roh>
spectec
<wolfspra1l>
zydas was acquired by x which was acquired by y, no?
<wolfspra1l>
ralink acquired by mtk, atheros acquired by qualcomm
<roh>
zydas isnt the most powersaving but they hav serial and spi in addition to usb on their chips and linux driver afaik
<wpwrak>
roh: yeah, i meant wolfgang. the idea of having a babylon of lists also has its dark side ...
<roh>
atheros is qc now? sigh. too bad. i had hope for them
<wolfspra1l>
nope. the investment demands are too high. so qualcomm can generate a higher return on those needed investments integrating the tech into bigger chips, than atheros being independent can.
<kristianpaul>
wolfspra1l: ok
<wolfspra1l>
I find it interesting that the better open source driver some wifi corp has, the higher the chance it looses independence :-) or so it seems :-)
<roh>
wolfspra1l: well.. nothing the consumer will notice. ath chipsets were already cheap (single digit euros)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: i did a quick searck on qi-hw wiki and it appear, so dont look at me ;)
<wolfspra1l>
roh: notice? don't understand
<roh>
the price will not get much lower
<wolfspra1l>
I think it means that there will be less investment into new independent atheros-type products
<wolfspra1l>
of course the ones they have now will sell for a loooong time
<wolfspra1l>
but any big new investments will be made towards more integrated chips
<roh>
as you said about the tplink router yesterday.. it sells for 16$. with case and psu.
<roh>
at 400mhz and ~32mb ram and 4-8mb flash
<wolfspra1l>
yes. and in the future you can add 3g/lte, more memory, graphics acceleration, etc. into the mix
<wolfspra1l>
from qualcomm then
<roh>
sure. but its always a numbers game. i know of no wifi-ap socs which have 3g stuff yet. not enough devices which need both to pay for the asics
<roh>
so its usually 2 chips connected by usb
<roh>
all wifi-ap soc have usb host nowadays
<wolfspra1l>
yes, but why has qualcomm bought atheros?
<roh>
my guess is that 3g licenses are more expensive than the physical soc itself ;)
<wolfspra1l>
don't understand
<wolfspra1l>
what will qualcomm do with the atheros stuff?
<roh>
wolfspra1l: strategy. they need to fight broadcom. which have multimedia (tv, mediaplayer), mobile, wifi-ap and other soc.
<wolfspra1l>
yes
<roh>
wolfspra1l: complete the portfolio. qc was a 'basically only in mobiles' manuf atm.
<wolfspra1l>
right
<wolfspra1l>
but qualcomm is much stronger in 3g/lte than broadcom, no?
<roh>
so we will see.. if atheros looses their currently quite good opensource support in the long run
<wolfspra1l>
I don't think 'open source' is a strategy that matters when it comes to justifying or recouping multi-bilion USD investments
<wolfspra1l>
it's just too irrelevant
<roh>
dunno. the mobile field has lots of smaller chips besides the soc. not sure what stuff is their cashcow
<wolfspra1l>
so the quality of atheros open-source drivers may go either way, accidentally
<wolfspra1l>
it may get better, or worse
<wolfspra1l>
so far atheros cared a lot about open source
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<wolfspra1l>
but now they lost their independence :-)
<roh>
well.. brcm will show its cards very soon...see rasberry pi
<roh>
atheros caring? well.. nah.
<wolfspra1l>
compared to qualcomm, yes
<wolfspra1l>
the raspberry pi is nothing more than a marketing blip/joke for broadcom
<wolfspra1l>
if it's more, maybe broadcom is on the way down too :-)
<roh>
atheros was the reason for the years-long fail called madwifi. without crazy opensource nerds we would have no free drivers there
<wolfspra1l>
yes but atheros had much great open-source awareness and enthousiasm than I could ever detect at qualcomm
<wolfspra1l>
and I met with (some) people from both companies
<wolfspra1l>
they are big corps though, and one department may differ from another
<roh>
wolfspra1l: i dont think so. brcm is quite strong when it comes to market share in wifi routers for example. its mostly ath and brcm i see. realtek only the really cheap ones but <1 in 10
<wolfspra1l>
in the end all those guys have to be very responsible about massive capital investments
<wolfspra1l>
they are forced to
<roh>
true
<wolfspra1l>
realtek seems quite strong in china
<wpwrak>
wolfspra1l: you detected anything like that at qualcomm ? :)
<roh>
yeah. but they have rather the low-end
<wolfspra1l>
and that means probably also in another 20 large-population countries at least
<wolfspra1l>
yes but don't underestimate the size here
<wolfspra1l>
china alone has more people than the entire 'western world' combined
<roh>
i havent seen qc chipsets in wifi equipment yet. only in 3g modems, mobiles and tablets.
<wolfspra1l>
and scale matters in manufacturing, see the 16 usd router that tp-link doesn't even introduce in eu/us because it's too cheap and distributors there cannot make enough money to push it and it also doesn't matter much for the scale of the product
<roh>
true. but they mostly cannot afford the level of luxury and numbers we can, atleast still.
<wolfspra1l>
maybe they don't need it? that 16 usd router next to me here works just wonderful. if I have money left over, I'll spend it on a good restaurant maybe :-)
<roh>
wolfspra1l: i can buy the tplink 741nd for <20E including taxes when i take more than 10 pieces
<wolfspra1l>
I need to watch realtek a bit more, don't know what's going on there
<roh>
in europe. not searching for the cheapest seller. just default b2b price
<wolfspra1l>
when products get too cheap, there is no pull into us/eu markets, because distributors cannot make enough money
<wolfspra1l>
and the end consumer doesn't care
<wolfspra1l>
but there will be huge growth for those products still in the other 80% of the world
<wolfspra1l>
where a 5 USD difference matters to both resellers and consumers
<roh>
there is no too cheap.. atleast not if the quality and features make sense. just means more gain for the importer
<roh>
my guess is that the price difference between china and europe is mostly taxes and WEEE
<roh>
also the chinese versions of lots of the wifi stuff have less ram/flash to save money
<wolfspra1l>
3.1 billion is not bad, at least atheros seems to have been valued like a real business, which they are/were
<roh>
wow. lots of green.
<wolfspra1l>
that was already a year ago btw
<wolfspra1l>
over a year ago
<wolfspra1l>
just reading about realtek
<wolfspra1l>
in hsinchu/taiwan, 1600 people, 700 million USD revenues
<wolfspra1l>
let's see how long they can keep their independence - maybe they need to find some smaller highly profitable niches
<mth>
I don't know if this was reported yet, but the web view of git seems to be offline
<mth>
git itself does seem to be working
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<roh>
mth: which git?
<mth>
qi-kernel is the one I tested
<mth>
hmm, gmenu2x does still work
<wolfspra1l>
mth: ah that indefero :-)
<wolfspra1l>
on my to-be-removed list
<mth>
I'm wondering though if my git-fu is failing me or the archive is in a bad shape
<mth>
"git log origin/jz-3.2" should show the 3.2 branch, right?
<mth>
because the autocompletion doesn't go beyond jz-3.0
<mth>
out of caution, I did a fetch rather then pull
<mth>
s/then/than
<qi-bot>
mth meant: "out of caution, I did a fetch rather than pull"
<mth>
I'm going to have another attempt at sleeping
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<rjeffries>
wolfgang wolfspra1| in reading the backlog, say discussion of ZyDAS wifi. Then a discussion of Qualcom buying Atheros. Nobody mentioned (that I saw) that Atheros way back bought ZyDAS.
<rjeffries>
Qualcom may want wifi for so-called Internet of Things including home automation. Atheros has some very low power wifi chips now. and of course every mobile smartphone has wifi, so it makes sense for Qualcom
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<Testbaron>
hi what beter :(512 DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM +1 gb DDR2-667 DDR2 SDRAM ) OR (512 DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM+512 DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM)?
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<wolfspraul>
if you wait a little that may get relevant for future Milkymist products :-) http://www.milkymist.org
<wolfspraul>
other than that I have no idea...
<wolfspraul>
Testbaron: we are mostly dealing with open hardware here and how to collaborate in hardware
<wolfspraul>
mechanical design, electrical, IC, testing, even distribution
<wolfspraul>
sourcing, manufacturing
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<Testbaron>
do i can buy somewheare open graphic card?
<wolfspraul>
depends on how you define open
<wolfspraul>
you like to build your own computer? pc or notebook?
<pabs3>
aw, opengraphics.org no longer resolves
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<Testbaron>
I wana make pc and i wana make my own experimental graphic LIB
<Testbaron>
In my own "TOY OS" in assembler
<Testbaron>
and open for my is using card registrs i think ..i need acceleration for graphics
<Testbaron>
or open drivers what give me using 100% efectivy in my own os
<Testbaron>
Do anybody know somethink? i need port/adapt DRI DRM +driver to get graphic acceleration in my experemmintal OS what exactly i need focus to?Thx
<zrafa>
I know
<Testbaron>
can you try expl /some info ineed tored /links
<Testbaron>
or abstractly some info
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<wolfspraul>
pabs3: I think Milkymist SoC is the way to do open graphics
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/: added milkymist_one_bom_rc3.csv generated from Adam's original (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/19e2f84
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/SUPPLEMENT: fix various broken or redirected PDF links (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/4bcaa5f
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r1/dsc/bomshelf: new tag X to delete a part number (and all references) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/0750ed8
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r1/dsv/SUPPLEMENT: delete mechanical components; fixed last non-Yageo bad link (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/d3a27c7
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<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: nah, seems it BUILDS again and again, no?