<B_Lizzard>
I see the two files have a few differences
<B_Lizzard>
I'll just rename the usb_gadget_probe_driver to usb_gadget_register_driver, see if it explodes
<B_Lizzard>
Whoa, it doesn't build, conflicting types
<B_Lizzard>
How surprising
<wolfspraul>
roh: I saw your disgust when you had to enter a password into projects.qi-hardware.com without ssl in Berlin, and it made me think...
<wolfspraul>
so now I plan to move more stuff behind ssl by default, maybe I will experiment with projects.qi-hardware.com because there is not that much traffic there
<wolfspraul>
my plan is to move the entire site behind https, and redirect all http urls to the corresponding https url. Is this a reasonable plan?
<wolfspraul>
you have more ssl experience - any caveats?
<wolfspraul>
do I need to be worried about server load?
<roh>
wolfspraul: atleast login should be behind ssl.
<wolfspraul>
sure but I'm thinking about moving all behind ssl
<roh>
you know the firefox plugin which sniffs wifi and passwords?
<roh>
and enables you to login as people using no ssl around you ;)
<wpwrak>
your kworldclock seems to be working well :-)
<wpwrak>
ah, or that :)
<rjeffries>
is all of Argintina in same time zone
<wpwrak>
at the moment, yes. they the government gets it into their heads to introduce DST, things get a little complicated, with provinces changing their time zone at a daily basis
<wpwrak>
well, this year, they didn't try DST. i think a lesson has been learned :) hopefully, this will put the issue to rest for a while
<larsc>
hm, only -5h explains why you are here most of the time when i'm here. especially given that my day starts 5 hours late ;)
<kristianpaul>
larsc: whats your GTM? +5?
<larsc>
no, gmt+2
<kristianpaul>
here gmt-5
<larsc>
but my day usually goes from 12pm-4am
<roh>
larsc: *g*
<roh>
has so many timezones in his gnome applet that the list doesnt show all
<roh>
screen too small
<kristianpaul>
roh: he, same here ;-)
<kristianpaul>
8.9" laptop for work is too small, but damn light when i must travel around the city :-)
<kristianpaul>
larsc: do you have a list of apps that require MMU or way of notice that,may be grepping the source code?
<kristianpaul>
at least wich apps from the gnu familly
<larsc>
nope
<kristianpaul>
k..
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: it's hard to tell which applications really _require_ an mmu. i can't think of any library function that usually assumes an mmu that couldn't be rewritten to work without one.
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: but this may result in excessive resource use
<larsc>
there might be some applications that take it for granted that they can mmap a file into their address space and have no open()/read()/write() fallback
<larsc>
and there is no fork
<larsc>
()
<wpwrak>
larsc: yes, you would have to hack this in libc
<wpwrak>
larsc: (fork) just copy the process :)
<larsc>
once we have basic uclibc support for lm32, i'll add it to openwrt and make a full build.
<kristianpaul>
larsc: there are arch in owrt with support for no-mmu isnt?
<kristianpaul>
also i guess busybox can handle that..
<larsc>
kristianpaul: not sure
<larsc>
about whether there are other no-mmu archs in openwrt
<larsc>
but i guess busybox is written in a way that it can run on a mmu system
<larsc>
although it's quite imperformant
<kristianpaul>
:/
<mth>
busybox has a CONFIG_NOMMU option
<mth>
I never used it though
<dvdkhlng>
may i throw in some opinion about nommu :
<dvdkhlng>
causes lots of trouble with memory fragmentation
<dvdkhlng>
if an app wants to malloc() some 16MB of memory, and there is no contiguous chunk of that size, you're practically out  of memory.
<dvdkhlng>
i think that being able to alloc block-wise memory without fragmentation issues is much more important than the memory-protection that an MMU gives you.
<mth>
"any problem can be solved by adding a level of indirection"?
<dvdkhlng>
:)
<dvdkhlng>
BTW if we already replaced the FPU with gcc's softfp, why not hack gcc to generate 'softmmu' code for all memory references :)
<dvdkhlng>
i.e. MMU emulation
<mth>
is that really easier than adding an MMU implementation in the FPGA?
<dvdkhlng>
i was kidding (somewhat).  but note how transmeta crusoe/efficeon used software-based mmu on their x86-emulating cpus.
<rjeffries>
Left Coast USA during daylight savins (now) is GMT -7. I wish IRC nicknames carried an easy to finf associated GMT delta
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul are you in same city as wpwrak a.k.a. Werner
<rjeffries>
08:23 <dvdkhlng> soft MMU is the perfect way to ensure MM pSOC runs as slow as posible, if not slower. <just kidding, but true statement>
<rjeffries>
08:23 <dvdkhlng> //you make a good point. maybe soft MMU is not a brain dead idea after all. Maybe I am breain dead. It happens.
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: no
<rjeffries>
maybe I should go to sleep, wake up in 10 years to enjoy the MM SOC as asic I am just too damned impatient
<rjeffries>
bassel what is your GMT delta? I am making a table I'll share later
<bassel>
rjeffries GMT + @
<bassel>
GMT + 2
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (irc and gmt) maybe they just realized that a lot of people aren't synchronized with the position of the sun :)
<larsc>
B_Lizzard: you asked for the patch for 2.6.37
<B_Lizzard>
larsc, 2.6.36 but it's fine, I fixed it
<B_Lizzard>
it works
<larsc>
ok
<dvdkhlng>
offtopic question wrt IRC (trying to catch up, didn't use IRC before): comments sent by rjeffries to me "08:23 <dvdkhlng>...)" look like being send via /msg; however they appear in the irc log.  answered via "/msg rjeffries ..." but result didn't show in irclog.  something wrong on my side?
<rjeffries>
<kristianpaul> in an earlier life I visited Bogotá on business to deliver technical prentation for a Swedish company
<larsc>
dvdkhlng: they weren't private messages
<kristianpaul>
cold city :-)
<kristianpaul>
here is warm and windy
<rjeffries>
but I worked form California for E
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: btw, thanks for the input on the "MADE IN". let's hope this helps to avoid unnecessary troubles.
<rjeffries>
<dvdkhlng> that time stamp happened because I double clicked your comment in the #qi-hardware irc channel. I use smuxi as my irc client. not great, but it works
<rjeffries>
wpwrak sometimes facts are facts. It's funny, I have no dog in thsi fight, but would rather not see wolf create hassle for his distributors or sharism at work
<wpwrak>
dvdkhlng: it looks as if ron just copied and pasted your (/msg) replies. by the way, welcome to #qi-hardware ! i think now everyone who matters in ben-openwrt-land is here :)
<rjeffries>
s/tsi/this
<dvdkhlng>
larsc, rjeffries: thanks for the info.  takes time to getting used to irc :)  looks like irc-client on this side (rcirc.el) changes color of comment depending on whether my nick is mentioned.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: yeah. trying such things with customs is like wrestling with pigs. the pigs enjoy it and all you get is dirty.
<rjeffries>
oh cool. So that is why I see some lines in RED here also. I thought wprak and others were treating me as a VIP
<wpwrak>
dvdkhlng: many irc clients do this. helps you notice quickly when people talk about you behind your back ;-)
<rjeffries>
<kristianpaul> are you at the university or in industry
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: btw, when addressing someone, it is more common to use the  nick:  form (or some similar, e.g., command or semicolon would look right, too)
<rjeffries>
I see so not use the <angle brackets>
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: the <nick>Â Â form is usually associated with a message coming from that person. so it using it also when addressing someone can create confusion about whether you're quoting that person
<rjeffries>
thanks for the useful advice it has been MANY years since I used irc. But it's great in this application.perfect in fact
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: not university, industry neither :p, i'm just freelance for industry
<dvdkhlng>
needs to disable colors in irc. looking at his screen it's too obvious that this is not source-code and he's not working :)
<wpwrak>
(irc) oh, i love it :) been quite a chat addict a long time ago and then decided just to stay away from that vile stuff, but i rediscovered it with openmoko, and it does really make cooperation more fluid.
<rjeffries>
in many ways Twitter sorta kinda reinvented IRC, but for humans. but no "rrom" or channels so not good for this use case
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul so you are what we call a hired gun. the only question would be, van you shoot straight? //smile
<rjeffries>
so how are these COOL #qi-hardware logs created? I assume there is a bot that grabs stuff, then an offline program does some reformatting. I REALLY like the format
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: qi-bot is wolfgang's never sleeping eye that watches over us :)
<larsc>
dvdkhlng: or add colors to your sourcecode ;)
<rjeffries>
did he also write the program that formats the logs I would assume?
<steve|m>
rjeffries: Generated by irclog2html.py 2.9.2 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: i think that's part of this eggdrop thing
<wpwrak>
roh: do you know the story behind that dot ? i find it rather troublesome to have two slightly different names for pins of virtually identical function blocks
<wpwrak>
hmm
<roh>
well.. there are slim differences in different ones all the time for such stuff
<roh>
also because some have parts of the interfaces twice instead one
<wpwrak>
roh: yeah, but a dot ? that seems like the mother of all gratuitous changes
<roh>
wpwrak: interresting anyhow
<roh>
in the end its just a define anyhow ;)
<wpwrak>
roh: well, i'm at the circuit symbol now. don't like to diverge from the vendor naming (except for inversion) but don't like to diverge from what the (sw) source may use either.
<roh>
what are you using? N_foo?
<wpwrak>
roh: for inversion ? nFOO
<roh>
ah.
<roh>
i wonder if atmel doesnt have a usb-cpu-wireless in once chip already
<rjeffries>
steve|m: Thanks for this info re logs irclog2html.py 2.9.2 by Marius Gedminas
<wpwrak>
roh: (usb-cpu-wireless) apparently not. at least not for ieee 802.15.4. haven't looked if they have any other rf.
<rjeffries>
maybe if wolfspraul will share source for his bot, I can (with help from someone else) set up my own irc channel for other purposes entirely
<wpwrak>
roh: also quite a monster. if you don't need such a big core, you're cheaper off with two chips
<rjeffries>
roh: do you know approx price for that chip
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: in digi-key we trust (also for pricing ;-)
<rjeffries>
I have not mastered digikey i find it confusing. so it it $~10 usd or Less?
<roh>
nope
<rjeffries>
more?
<rjeffries>
$450USD
<rjeffries>
SMILES
<rjeffries>
sorry for caps
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: price always depends on quantity. also, you have to consider if this is a chip major distributors stock. if they don't, it's a risk. (e.g., you may find your project delayed by several months while waiting for new parts from the manufacturer)
<rjeffries>
someone famous in semiconducter industry once said "all chips will be $5usd exc ept for those that cost less:
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: you really should learn to navigate digi-key. they're great.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: yeah, buy a few millions and you can negotiate almost any price :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I will I promise
<rjeffries>
I have a buddy who uses a killer NXP Arm SOC taht costs maybe $5 in modest quantities
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: you may get your little uart board in the end. i realized that it's a convenient interim step on the way to making the avr-based atusb work.
<rjeffries>
once you design a complex chip, making a ton of them is pretty cheap
<rjeffries>
wprak: a little uarts board would be goodness on so many levels. That is the fast track into Arduio land and Jee Labs
<kristianpaul>
I think i heard that from here too :-)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: i didn't make that one
<kristianpaul>
tuxbrain_away: btw you should sell Jeenodes as well
<rjeffries>
nods to kristianpaul and tuxbrain_away that would be Most Excellent
<kristianpaul>
3.3V arduino-like board is intersting, even mor if it can talk with your nanonote as well ;-)
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul that is what gets me excited by Jee Labs, plus he is an above average human being
<tuxbrain_away>
kristianpaul: is in the Todo list, I have contated them, margins are not very atractives but well , at the end I also sell NN isn't it? :P
<kristianpaul>
tuxbrain_away: margins :'))
<tuxbrain_away>
If someone achive to comunicate with them previously and post a step by step tutorial task can rise some priory
<tuxbrain_away>
priority
<tuxbrain_away>
wprank are you serious on that arduNN board?
<wpwrak>
now ... what connector on the serial side ? three option: 1) narrow pcb pads for soldering a 50 mil cable directly to the PCB. 2) larger pcb pads to solder a 100 mil header directly to the PCB. 3) a proper 100 mil header on the PCB.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: there be no arduNN. but a uart, yes :)
<kristianpaul>
ardu? i heard atmega
<tuxbrain_away>
heheheeh ok ok :) enough +1 to a proper conector no soldering
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: i need something to try the whole avr-with-ben bringup chain, and that one is less overhead than the new atusb.
<kristianpaul>
actually is on stusd sch right now tuxbrain_away
<kristianpaul>
s/stusd/atben
<wpwrak>
hmmm. i better terminate that thing ...
<tuxbrain_away>
I also advocate for expose as many gpios on the chip , as many as  the board admit
<wpwrak>
i was actually aiming for "small" :)
<wpwrak>
well, let's see how the layout goes ...
<kristianpaul>
just let the pads, may be if some one want hack later can solder something on it..
<kristianpaul>
hey,i dint knew it about atmegau8/32/16u2 familly
<kristianpaul>
nice have a 8bit MCU plus USB support, (so i finally can drop the non gcc suported picF18 MCU...)
<tuxbrain_away>
sorry I have just passed a sleepless night , was ending some task before going to sleep instead of having the space bar tatooed on the face , that news  have inject some adrenaline on the system but just enough to work with a smile on the face and not work with eyes closed. c you
<kristianpaul>
chao
<kristianpaul>
hmm, i think i soon can have enought stuff to order from digikey :-)
<rjeffries>
wprak: is there a PDF of schematic of UART 8:10? I clicked on that link but maybe I do not understand navigation, or no PDF yet. whatever
<steve|m>
rjeffries: just open the schematic with KiCad
<rjeffries>
I will need to downlaod kiCad. I did a while back then deleted it when I was not using it
<rjeffries>
so are you adding a hardware UART on Blikinlights, or is this just bit banging with 3.3 volt levels? sorry to be so ignorant
<rjeffries>
by "just" I am NOT deprecating your effort, simply wondering
<rjeffries>
bit banging could support a fairly decent serial rate. maybe 56kbps or so??
<steve|m>
wpwrak: by the way, is you PCB etching workflow documented somewhere? :)
<rjeffries>
which chip is used yo do the 6 to 10 i/o muxing?
<rjeffries>
steveM all I lnow is that over of Playboy or Maxim or similar girlie magazine us ESSENTIAL
<rjeffries>
better tha the expensive photo paper
<rjeffries>
tell you wife of gf you buy it for the articles and the cover ONLY
<wpwrak>
steve|m: hmm, i described it here a few times but it's not "properly" documented. there's a also a fairly involved CNC workflow connected to this.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: there's an AVR that handles the UART. talks SPI to the ben.
<kristianpaul>
seems i lost the track about why blinkenlights have a UART port now...
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: doing it all with bit-banging would be cute, but that's not quite what i'm looking for this time. what i'm after is a simple AVR that gets flashed from the ben. once i have that working, i can apply it to the new atusb.
<steve|m>
attach a 30$ laser from dealextreme to your CNC machine and you're set :)
<LunaVorax>
If I want to install the SDL lib on my NanoNote for C + SDL coding, does it works exactly like manually installing it on my x86 linux machines ?
<wpwrak>
steve|m: (laser plotter) hmm, seems rather complex. i thought this was milled.
<wpwrak>
hmm, does serial programming of avrs still work if nRESET is configured as I/O ? the data sheet isn't quite clear on that.
<wpwrak>
(reset disabled) i.e., RSTDISBL programmed to zero.
<wpwrak>
hmm, google says "no"
<steve|m>
wpwrak: no, doesn't work unfortunately (own bad experience)
<steve|m>
AVR fusbite mistake #1
<steve|m>
if you don't have a high voltage programmer, you're screwed
<wpwrak>
steve|m: an ugly design "feature"
<steve|m>
wpwrak: indeed.. generally, the AVR has too much fusebits.. I really started to like other architectures which have no fusebits at all
<rjeffries>
steve|m  Google Chrome translate extension is my friend.
<steve|m>
like the msp430, which will run off the internal RC oscillator, and you switch to the external clock source in software, with fallback if there's no clock and so on
<steve|m>
guess there are many others out there which do it this way
<steve|m>
has started doing some TI launchpad hacking, and reprogrammed the big MSP used for programming the target yesterday
<wpwrak>
steve|m: yes, that clock selection is rather antiquated
<rjeffries>
steve|m did you garb some of those 430 Launchpad at the $4.30 price, incl. shipping in US?
<wpwrak>
hmm, not enough i/os for an interrupt line. sigh. wish atmel wouldn't insist on requiring nSS for slave mode ...
<rjeffries>
s/garb/grab
<steve|m>
wpwrak: interrupt Ben -> AVR? you could use a pin change interrupt on any other pin
<wpwrak>
steve|m: interrupt avt->ben. i.e., when data has been received. the problem is that i'm running out of signals.
<steve|m>
rjeffries: I have the launchpads from a german electronics seller for 4,50 each
<rjeffries>
steve|m I assume 4,50 Euros still cheap
<wpwrak>
steve|m: an 8:10 card has 6 data lines. full spi already occupies 4 of them. i need one more for the clock and one for reset. leaving 0 for interrupts. well, unless playing games with configuring spi on and off. not sure if this works.
<steve|m>
is looking at the schematics
<wpwrak>
is already making radical changes :)
<steve|m>
if you have place for testpoints, SDA cand SCL ;) I2C is always good to have ;)
<wpwrak>
steve|m: naw, no room. i want this to be small :)
<steve|m>
or just connect them to rxd and txd, then you can configure them as high-Z and use either/or :)
<steve|m>
but well.. might be over-engineered
<wpwrak>
i would need a lot of vias for that.
<steve|m>
anyway, bitbanged i2c would always be possible if someone should need that
<steve|m>
for what is the CLK line used? for providing the a clock to the atmega? is the internal 8MHz rc-oscillator insufficient?
<wpwrak>
steve|m: the RC clock is only accurate +/- 10% (without additional calibration). alas, i don't see where in the data sheet they specify the clock accuracy the uart needs.
<wpwrak>
but +/- 10% seems too much.
<wpwrak>
even +/- 5% would be a lot
<steve|m>
wpwrak: and which clock can you provide via the CLK output of the ben?
<wpwrak>
well, if we don't use it, we can recycle XTAL1 for other uses:)
<wpwrak>
the SDIO clock. the ben's crystal clock is quite accurate. a bit too noisy for RF, but should be perfect for this use.
<steve|m>
okay
<steve|m>
wpwrak: if you should use the internal OSC, and can enable/disable the SDIO clock independently, this would also make an interrupt pin :)
<steve|m>
even quite resource saving, since you could use it as timer0 clock input and then generate a timer interrupt
<wpwrak>
steve|m: i can use the SDIO clock on the ben side also as regular GPIO, yes
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: i asked to the humane project guy for new dump and posibllityto parse recent wikipedia dump, and seems posible !!
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: just need a computer with 8Gb of ram.... :-|, he said..
<wolfspraul>
I'm writing the 02/01 news
<wolfspraul>
does anybody know why the AndroidStamp is called AndroidStamp?
<wolfspraul>
is it supposed to run Android one day?
<wolfspraul>
there is no way anybody will ever get Android to boot or run with 64 MB memory, that made me wonder about the name...
<kristianpaul>
he, good point
<wolfspraul>
also Android without screen doesn't really make sense to me, but that's a separate point
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: well, to be critical of them, they do seem to operate in wishful thinking land once in a while :-)
<wolfspraul>
as in "xue is finished", we need to look at that one soon too, to not keep false promises around
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: you think it's called 'AndroidStamp' because it's supposed to run Android?
<wolfspraul>
or just because Android is the current fashion and they were so excited about it that they picked it for the name of the project?
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: i dont think, well, carlos just started the thread
<wolfspraul>
it's not supposed to run Android?
<kristianpaul>
dunno... isnot pointed in the wiki actually
<kristianpaul>
to be fair with you, i'mn follwing linux en caja mail list
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: looks like linux en caja ML has a nice amount of messages right?
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: humaneinfo: great!... let me know if you get something in spanish :)
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: linuxencaja, well,, my coment could  be biased but i dint like the intro carlos did to adroid stamp..
<wolfspraul>
he made an intro? will it run Android?
<kristianpaul>
no said nothing about android
<kristianpaul>
"las personas con conocimiento en HW pueden opinar sobre el"
<kristianpaul>
proceso, los que no porfavor no participen,
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: i dint like that
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: yeah .. I just read that :D
<zrafa>
"las personas con conocimiento en HW pueden opinar sobre el
<zrafa>
proceso, los que no porfavor no participen, no vamos a dejar abiertas las
<zrafa>
especificaciones, asi que no vamos a recibir sugerencias de HW ya que muchas
<zrafa>
veces las personas que no conocen el desarrollo HW no saben lo complicado y
<zrafa>
costoso que es agragar una nueva caracterÃstica."
<kristianpaul>
seguro
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: another thing more :
<kristianpaul>
pero en fin,,, no es mi estilo de decir las cosas
<kristianpaul>
biased
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: what does no vamos a dejar abiertas las especificaciones" mean?
<zrafa>
is it something like open thing but closed ideas?.. or something like that?
<kristianpaul>
copyleft like license
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: but why he said "no vamos a dejar abierta las especificaciones"?
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: i dont want give personal comments about how i think emqbit works.. may be i'm wrong on that,
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: i guess it mean what you said, no more hw changes
<wolfspraul>
he :-)
<wolfspraul>
I tried google translate
<wolfspraul>
it says the hw work is not open/collaborative, because outsiders don't understand the implications of the changes they propose?
<wolfspraul>
that's a very good point, but the exact opposite of our beliefs over here :-)
<wolfspraul>
those implications need to be documented, communicated, so that a collaborative effort becomes possible
<wolfspraul>
maybe google translate got it wrong
<wolfspraul>
anyway I was wondering about the name 'AndroidStamp', guess we don't know right now
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: i dont want invest my free time time about learning about arm, i got my M1, good or not that my bet :-)
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: you mean the spanish text we put here?
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
I just pasted it to google translate
<wolfspraul>
"people with knowledge of HW can comment on the process, please do not not participate, we will not leave open the specifications, so we will not receive tips from HW because sometimes people do not know the HW development not know complicated and costly it appends a new feature. "
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: "las personas con conocimiento en HW pueden opinar sobre el proceso, los que no porfavor no participen," : people with hardware skills can help with ideas, people without hw skills please dont
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: "no vamos a dejar abiertas las especificaciones, asi que no vamos a recibir sugerencias de HW ya que muchas veces las personas que no conocen el desarrollo HW no saben lo complicado y costoso que es agragar una nueva caracterÃstica." :
<kristianpaul>
i wonder from where he learnt that last one :-)
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: "we will not let open the specifications, so we will not accept suggestions about hw, because often people does not know how hard the hw development is, and how haw to add a feature is"
<zrafa>
how haw=how hard
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: is that clearer than google translate? :)
<kristianpaul>
a lot clearer
<kristianpaul>
i dont get the point, if the list is not about hw then? just put linux on a box (linux en caja), well sounds coherent,.
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: M1: he he.. great!.. yeah, I can imagine that you will not have time now.. just M1 for many days :)
<kristianpaul>
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