<Mauro_R>
jaja :-) it's the last technology ... ecologic ....
<Mauro_R>
you must keep safe of don't burn your parts ;-p
<lekernel>
burning wood isn't that ecologic... and btw steam explosions are dangerous
<lekernel>
afaik they were the main problem that prevented the development of the steam engine at the beginning
<Mauro_R>
lekernel: I'm sure that it's more ecologic than the batteries ...
<wpwrak>
zrafa: (bike) cool ! ;-)
<lekernel>
maybe, maybe not. I haven't done the math, so I won't jump into saying which is more ecologic. it's not an easy question
<lekernel>
but it sure is more dangerous than batteries
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: I mentioned our emi tests to Adam, he was very happy to hear that such a complex board passed on most tests right away.
<wolfspraul>
when I described the one failed esd/field test to him, he asked in which area the sink was, but I told him we were too lazy to track that down, going for the whole metal sheet instead
<lekernel>
except that maybe DIY batteries might done the same way as this steam engine, i.e. with open acid and nasty chemicals just waiting to spill on you when you fall :)
<wolfspraul>
we suspect it may be the dram area, right?
<lekernel>
wolfspraul: yeah, probably
<wolfspraul>
I don't want to do random layout changes in rc3 though, that sounds riskier to me than just going with the metal sheet for now
<lekernel>
laziness is good. gets things done fast
<wolfspraul>
one day if someone has time and energy, that person can track down the sink more precisely...
<lekernel>
and attaching a metal shield to the DRAM alone can also be more expensive and complicated than the whole sheet
<wolfspraul>
sure I'm not complaining. the metal sheet is the right approach now, not risky layout changes.
<wolfspraul>
well we could try to make changes in the layout
<lekernel>
metal sheet is only a few tens of cents, and simple assembly...
<wolfspraul>
but it will be hard to make the right changes there that actually fix the issue, and be without regressions too
<wolfspraul>
yes yes :-)
<wolfspraul>
we are on the same page
<wolfspraul>
I am just telling you about bringing Adam into this.
<wolfspraul>
no layout changes in rc3 to try to fix this potential dram esd/field sink issue
<lekernel>
no, sure not
<wolfspraul>
you could add extra copper to the pcb
<lekernel>
but we may want to fix the boot problem as early as rc3
<wolfspraul>
it would not be too unusual in adam's experience. just fyi. we will not do it, no worries :-)
<lekernel>
the pcb is already full of copper
<wolfspraul>
yes, agreed
<wolfspraul>
we are on the same page
<wolfspraul>
at some point I need to decide the size of rc3
<wolfspraul>
I'm thinking 50-100
<wolfspraul>
tough decision again
<wolfspraul>
I think we have to be brave and believe in the product :-)
<wolfspraul>
I will start sourcing a few things already, anything with lead time > 4 weeks.
<wolfspraul>
just fyi
<Mauro_R>
lekernel: acid, nasty chemicals ... also, solid batteries are less eco than burn wood or coal ...
<Mauro_R>
lekernel: but I understand your point, burn wood isn´t good enough ...
<lekernel>
wpwrak: are the openmoko gerber files available somewhere?
<lekernel>
I can't find them
<wolfspraul>
not available
<lekernel>
really?!
<lekernel>
wow...
<wolfspraul>
yeah sounds like dark age from our perspective nowadays :-)
<wolfspraul>
as some of my last official function at Openmoko, I released netlist, board outline and a few other small things under a cc license, to help jumpstart gta02-core.
<wolfspraul>
but the full GERBER files, or PADS Layout files, were never published
<lekernel>
amazing that project still got so popular
<kristianpaul>
indeed
<lekernel>
no features, lots of bugs, little openness...
<wpwrak>
lekernel: only partoally available - the outside layers
<wpwrak>
lekernel: it was still the most open at its time ...
<lekernel>
probably has to do with the average hacker's interest for communication networks :)
<wpwrak>
that too :)
<kristianpaul>
the case was finally open isnt?
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: the CAD files have been published, yes
<kristianpaul>
wonder how usable those are
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: me too ;-)
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: it was popular for 2 reasons imho
<wolfspraul>
one was the time of the announcement
<wolfspraul>
the Symbian dark age
<wolfspraul>
don't forget, this was _before_ the iPhone, before Android
<wolfspraul>
I would have killed someone to get out of this Symbian hell.
<wolfspraul>
I was working in the smartphone industry, and had been tortured by Symbian suits for years.
<wolfspraul>
there was a lot of anger built up there, and Palm Treo was only partially able to benefit from that
<wolfspraul>
so the promise of an 'open' platform was wildly welcomed
<wolfspraul>
nowadays the iphone and android platforms are considered the 'open' ones, with 100k+ apps etc.
<wolfspraul>
so that was the first reason
<wolfspraul>
announcing an open phone platform in late 2006 was just perfect
<wolfspraul>
second reason was gross brutal over-promising
<Jay7>
bad that no one software stack was succeeded
<wolfspraul>
back then I was clueless so I couldn't tell how bad it was
<wolfspraul>
but today I know :-)
<Jay7>
LiMo seems failed
<Jay7>
MeeGo is half-life
<wolfspraul>
it's like I make an announcement today that Sharism Ltd. will ship a competitor to the Airbus A380 in May this year.
<wolfspraul>
so OM had a history of again and again and again over-promising
<wolfspraul>
against all reason, almost insane
<wolfspraul>
over-promising will always give you some popularity first :-)
<wolfspraul>
those were the 2 reasons for me 1) timing 2) over-primising
<qbject>
I had no idea, when I acquired an ebook of Gibson's Zero History to read on my BNN, that it would feature a Neo so heavily.
<qbject>
(Just started reading it.)
<wolfspraul>
Neo in fiction, maybe that's where its actual natural habitat was from the beginning...
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: well, sharism vs. a380 is exaggerating a little :) with a better hw team and a more realistic approach for the software, i think things could have turned out much better
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: and of course, management that is a lot less fond of u-turns :)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: I stand behind sharism vs. a380
<wolfspraul>
it was just gross, really.
<wolfspraul>
there is a difference between what you want to do, and what you can do
<wolfspraul>
but it was also the reason for the popularity, of course
<wolfspraul>
popularity = delayed frustration
<wolfspraul>
so that's exactly what happened later
<wolfspraul>
anyway we are learning, and still around. :-)
<wolfspraul>
I'm quite optimistic actually...
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: the dynamics of competition among the companies openmoko was compared with are very tough. so with those comparisons, it never had a chance, from day 1.
<wolfspraul>
Palm tried the same thing with the Pre, they invested ca. 400 million USD, and even that was not enough.
<wolfspraul>
to get into that league, you need multi-billion USD investments, and most importantly you need very strong partners
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: yeah, i was thinking more of the technical side - make a device that works properly, hw and sw. i think that would have been feasible.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: maybe the competition would then have trampled openmoko anyway
<wolfspraul>
you need scale, rock solid partnerships
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: yeha, no idea how/if it could have scaled
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: of course, had openmoko been successful in making the first usable open phone, maybe the partners would have come on their own
<qbject>
I'm not using one any more, but my partner is certainly suffering through waves of scalability problems from Peek, Inc.
<qbject>
Every time their marketing is successful, their infrastructure shudders.
<wpwrak>
now i tried it with an external antenna. not much of a change. then with a cable straight to the usrp (having a bit of trouble keeping the power down without changing the gain)
<wpwrak>
hm, looks better with lower gain. here it is.
<wolfspraul>
yeah just wanted to say - even with external antenna looks similar
<wpwrak>
yup. so it's not over-the-air self-interference
<wpwrak>
still don't entirely trust the clock. maybe i'll try a board with a crystal.
<wpwrak>
but first a bit more power bypassing
<wpwrak>
there's also an interesting change between the complete ben (with lcm) and just the main pcb. the latter has a lot less noise. it could be just some field distortion caused by the extra metal objects, of course.
<wpwrak>
alright. some more unlikely causes ruled out.
<kristianpaul>
I would suggest the following:
<kristianpaul>
-1 =>Â Â 00
<kristianpaul>
-0 =>Â Â 01
<kristianpaul>
+0 => 10
<kristianpaul>
+1 => 11
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: ^^^^
<wpwrak>
aha !
<kristianpaul>
hum.... I am not entirely sure -0=+0. I would say that +0>-0. Remember
<kristianpaul>
that the point is to use as much info as you can
<kristianpaul>
from fabrizio
<wpwrak>
maybe it's time to ask sige ?
<kristianpaul>
hmm i want have something working with satellites at least before ask
<kristianpaul>
or ask for 6-8 bits ADC... ;)
<wpwrak>
well, you can pick one interpretation and just work with that. it shouldn't fail too badly if you're wrong
<kristianpaul>
sure
<kristianpaul>
my trouble now is converting imaginary data to real..
<kristianpaul>
i need read more
<wpwrak>
ah, entering the joyful part of signal processing ;-)
<kristianpaul>
new gmenux theme is nice, but... some apps icon tell more than you can expect from a command line/ncurse interface.. talking from eye candy perspective
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: you mean they look too good?
<wolfspraul>
which ones in particular do you have in mind?
<kristianpaul>
yes too good
<kristianpaul>
mutt
<kristianpaul>
sdvc may be
<kristianpaul>
no more
<wolfspraul>
hah, with mutt you picked the wrong one.
<kristianpaul>
why?
<wolfspraul>
I think it's the best email client in the world, the icon cannot possibly look too good :-)
<wolfspraul>
(just kidding)
<kristianpaul>
i use mutt
<kristianpaul>
ah ok
<wolfspraul>
if the icons are misleading, that's not good. I didn't look at them one by one yet, but I like that things look better now.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: couldn't agree more :-)
<kristianpaul>
sure looks good
<wolfspraul>
looks 'too good' is a tough argument to make
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (regarding the best email client)
<wolfspraul>
but I will keep your feedback in mind and pay attention when I test the next image...
<wolfspraul>
maybe all console/ncurses apps should have a common theme or 'hint' that they are console based?
<kristianpaul>
yeap !
<kristianpaul>
snownews is tricky i think is console app but  the icon make you think other thing
<kristianpaul>
i hope thats good, sounds good in spanish
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: are you aware of fedex procedures?
<kristianpaul>
"El envÃo internacional fue liberado" means it passed customs isnt?
<wolfspraul>
yes normally that means it's released from customs
<wolfspraul>
very good :-)
<wolfspraul>
although I have to say I never once had a customs problem in Colombia
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: passed customs. next, it should go to the local distribution center, and very soon thereafter (typically within an hour), on the delivery car
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: sure, i already pay customs ;)
<wpwrak>
oh, how did you do that ? normally, fedex pay and you then pay them
<kristianpaul>
hehe
<kristianpaul>
i call
<kristianpaul>
fedex webpage is slow
<kristianpaul>
i pay them
<kristianpaul>
(fedex)
<wpwrak>
maybe their payment procedure differs from country to country
<kristianpaul>
sure
<kristianpaul>
if dont pay they dont move a finger
<kristianpaul>
so this time i call soon and pay first to avoid delays..
<kristianpaul>
this people is so lazy..
<wpwrak>
and what will you be getting ?
<kristianpaul>
MM1+, Nannote (for a friend) microSD -> 100mil header breakout cable,  Scope meter !!!
<kristianpaul>
i hope pick it tomorrow if the package deliver to Cali (i worh there) but deliver is set to Buga, and they SLOW DOWN all up to 2 days because they dont cover intermediated cities...
<kristianpaul>
s/worh/work
<kristianpaul>
DHL do cover intermediate cities but i guess is expensive
<wpwrak>
(lots of stuff) wow ! btw, i think the device you'll get is called just "scope", not a "scope meter"