<kyak>
fighting with the whole meaning of openwrt is pointless
<kyak>
it IS a distro for routers
<kyak>
they make irreversible changes all the time
<valhalla_>
is there any reason why uImage should be copied in a certain order on the SD card to be able to boot it? (I'm trying to boot a custom image made with OE on the nanonote)
<kyak>
xiangfu: btw, your patch for gettext (oh, gettext-full) is still not there... though the bug status was changed to "accepted"
<xiangfu>
kyak: yes. I saw your comment, in bug 8413
<kyak>
at some point, openwrt will make a really critical change and we will have to branch or to switch to another distro
<kyak>
it will be very painfull
<xiangfu>
valhalla_: the bootloader hard code to load '/boot/uImage'
<valhalla_>
xiangfu: yes, it was in that position, but it wasn't able to load it
<xiangfu>
valhalla_: the bootloader only try first partition. and the first partition must ext2
<valhalla_>
(it happened yesterday, so I don't have the error message right now, it was just a random idea)
<valhalla_>
xiangfu: check
<xiangfu>
valhalla_: make sure you using the last version of bootloader. the early u-boot will have some problem on > 8GB sd card
<valhalla_>
how do I check the bootloader version? (it was able to boot a jlime image from the same card, anyway)
<xiangfu>
valhalla_: do you have openwrt in your nand? it's not easy to check the u-boot version, but you can check the '/etc/VERSION' in openwrt rootfs.
<kyak>
zedstar: can you explain more details? what is this search engine? the pdf viewer, is it nupdf? what were you using as httpd? can it search in pdfs only? have you ported the search engine to openwrt?
<kyak>
xiangfu: please test if it works for you, too
<xiangfu>
kyak: ok. thanks
<xiangfu>
kyak: btw, I also test put qi-package on top of feeds. 1 rm feeds/ tmp/ -rf  2. make package/libiconv/{clean,compile} V=99  3. seems it still build the upstream version(stub)
<xiangfu>
kyak: I will test your commit first.
<kyak>
mm, seems you have to make package/symlinks after 1 rm feeds/ tmp/ -rf
<xiangfu>
kyak: thanks.
<kyak>
np.. really hope it works for you, too
<zedstar>
kyak: thanks....it is something called estraier which can search different things like pdfs, text, word doc etc...this one used pdftotext to be able to look inside the pdf. the search engine comes with own web server process. yeh ported to openwrt although some stuff isnt like nupdf etc
<zedstar>
kyak: i built a bunch of ipks but needs some work to get into an easy installable state as has web page stuff, and config files etc not in ipks
<wolfspra1l>
zedstar: ah yes I just wanted to ask whether we can package this...
<zedstar>
wolfspraul: yeh it should be...not sure how to handle things like nupdf
<adamw_>
i searched both Digi-Key and Mouser, I've not found a suitable one.
<wolfspraul>
ok, 0.23'' = 5.8mm
<adamw_>
or 0.24''
<wolfspraul>
that's only .5mm more than what you need
<wolfspraul>
is this even noticable?
<adamw_>
most catalog show now.
<wolfspraul>
if the header is 0.5mm too high, maybe that's good enough?
<wolfspraul>
right now it's 4mm too high, right?
<adamw_>
yes...too high.
<adamw_>
I can only say I want a total hight of 7.1mm~ 7.6mm from M1 board top side
<wolfspraul>
what is the mating length of the current header on m1?
<adamw_>
7.6mm - 7.1mm = 0.5mm, this is the C27's height.
<adamw_>
current mating length on m1 = 5.95mm
<adamw_>
but need to add 2.5mm, so 5.95mm + 2.5mm = 8.45mm
<wolfspraul>
I cannot follow
<adamw_>
calculating the height, you need count mating length + plastic length.
<wolfspraul>
we found a header with 5.8mm mating length, which is only .5mm more than what you want
<wolfspraul>
it sounds like .5mm may be good enough?
<adamw_>
no
<adamw_>
you forgot to add 2.29 mm
<adamw_>
go to see page1 of "022284040_sd.pdf"
<adamw_>
to feel "M" length + 2.29mm <= 7.6mm (I want)
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
so m should be <= 5.31 mm
<wolfspraul>
right?
<adamw_>
right
<wolfspraul>
and the one we find available on mouser/digikey has m = 5.8 mm ?
<wolfspraul>
0.23'' = 5.8mm
<adamw_>
5.8mm + 2.29mm = 8.09 mm
<adamw_>
8.09 - 7.6 = 0.5mm
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
so the different is .5mm
<wolfspraul>
don't you think that's 'good enough'?
<adamw_>
i know you are saying why 0.5mm I can not accept it.
<wolfspraul>
I'm just wondering how it feels/looks in reality
<wolfspraul>
.5mm - sounds like really small
<wolfspraul>
(in this context)
<adamw_>
but actually is .24/6.09Â Â + 2.29 = 8.38mm, 8.38mm - 7.6 mm = 0.78mm (~ 0.5mm)
<wolfspraul>
ok now you make it .24 inch (before was 0.23 inch)
<adamw_>
but please the 7.1 mm is the final i want, if taking C27's height in next run(actually I don't know)
<adamw_>
datasheet says 0.24''
<adamw_>
some other says 0.23''
<wolfspraul>
you mean 7.1 - 2.29 = 4.81 ?
<wolfspraul>
so you want M <= 4.81 ?
<wpwrak>
the dark side of math: making addition confusing :)
<wolfspraul>
at least we get some practical experience in mating length calculations now, who knows when this may come in handy... :-)
<adamw_>
i can only say I want 7.1mm <=height <= 7.6mm from my exactly jtag/seral and m1 now. :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: xiangfu once mentioned  http://www.debwrt.net/trac/wiki  maybe this could be a more suitable candidate in the longer term ?
<adamw_>
wolfspraul, I have another plan which can be done in smt vendor.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: the best lessons are taught by mistakes :)
<adamw_>
wpwrak, the mistakes we created already and knew . :) need to clean it. :)
<adamw_>
wolfspraul, the package is on the way ST INGBERT DE.
<roh>
wolfspraul: do the cases fit on your boards?
<wolfspraul>
I have no boards here.
<wolfspraul>
adamw_: but I just got the box from fedex with the jtag-serial adapters - nice!
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: btw, did you get your nanos?
<adamw_>
wolfspraul, ok, good, firstly I plug a very small metal into P1 on jtag/serial to measure..the depth. I got 2.5mm.
<adamw_>
wolfspraul, do you think you can go to somewhere to hook jtag/serial in m1?
<wolfspraul>
no
<wolfspraul>
but I will send the boards to the people who have the boards
<wolfspraul>
of course they will first run into the height problem, have to clip their headers (all of which is very easy of course)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: they're still sitting at customs. sat there all day long yesterday.
<wolfspraul>
adamw_: I fully understand the C27 problem now :-)
<adamw_>
wolfspraul, also to feel U1 on jtag/serial.
<adamw_>
U1's body edge.
<adamw_>
the C27's height is around 0.5mm. :)
<kristianpaul>
morning
<wolfspraul>
morning
<wolfspraul>
adamw_: U1 is too close to the jtag header?
<adamw_>
just its edge interference. Yes, too close!
<kristianpaul>
"Developed an adaptive integration routine in Lua--a language I had not heard of until I got the Nanonote. Lua is quite fast and small" nice to read this
<adamw_>
thus actually jtag connector can be contacted very well if C27 & U1 move away a bit.
<wolfspraul>
yeah, got it
<roh>
wolfspraul: i see.. because i have only tested them with the rc1... dont have a real board atm either
<lekernel>
it can be contacted very well even if those components aren't moved... so don't worry
<lekernel>
actually I didn't even notice that before you looked at it, even though I used the jtag pod many times
<adamw_>
well...but fig. 13 shown is not big deal, because jtag connector contacted well to work enough!
<lekernel>
there are more important issues imo
<adamw_>
lekernel, hi yes, actually the C27 and U1 are not big deal
<adamw_>
just  I recorded first then we improved next time. :)
<roh>
what about some ribbon cables with press-on connectors?
<lekernel>
good to hear you say that :)
<roh>
not long.. just like 5 or 10cm?
<adamw_>
lekernel, but we just need to determine the J5's height and pick a suitable part.
<lekernel>
yeah, exactly, and just cut it on the existing boards... please don't delay anything because of this trivial problem
<adamw_>
well...we need to think this carefully...I don't want to rework news coming from everywhere later.
<wpwrak>
roh: do you also have press-on connectors for single-line headers ?
<adamw_>
trimming or cut for me is the 'rework'. :)
<wolfspraul>
roh: ahh good point, I send you one jtag-serial too, just in case
<roh>
wpwrak: nope.. but who cares.. use a 2row
<wpwrak>
roh: with the jtag board floating freely, i would be a bit worried about it accidently making contact with the main device. but maybe that's acceptable. (i was scared about the same issue with the openmoko debug board)
<roh>
wpwrak: for the 4pin 1row serial i would use something readymade...like a cdrom-audio cable or similar
<lekernel>
jtag boards floating freely are 1000 times more messy than this small connector height problem
<roh>
wpwrak: use sticky tape or gaffa on the pcb backside
<wpwrak>
lekernel: maybe 10x :)
<lekernel>
is it so hard to find a shorter header? or to cut an existing one?
<wpwrak>
roh: (ready-made) good idea
<lekernel>
I don't understand you...
<adamw_>
lekernel, we haven't decide to cut (this is unusual/bad idea) or to order the one we found in Molex.
<adamw_>
wolfspraul, how far it is from your home to roh or lekernel?
<wolfspraul>
way too far
<roh>
wolfspraul: how long are you in .de?
<wolfspraul>
probably also next week
<wolfspraul>
I will try to call that reichl guy, get an appointment.
<wolfspraul>
in that case I may even come back to Berlin.
<roh>
i see
<wolfspraul>
calling right now, nice huy
<wolfspraul>
guy
<wolfspraul>
he said 'how about monday?'
<lekernel>
but doesn't answer email :p
<lekernel>
works for me
<roh>
uh.. dunno if i am ready to do much outside stuff on monday.. want to get proper un-sick first
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: err no, it's not bit-serial like that. Q and I have different channels in hardware.
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: the FPGA then puts data into consecutive words
<kristianpaul>
those words are signed?
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: i think so, yes
<wpwrak>
hmm, something is coming ... just don't know whether it's three bens or a letter informing me that i have to appear at customs to personally retrieve them. let's hope for the former.
<larsc>
or it's a surprise gift
<wpwrak>
surprises coming from customs are rarely good ones ...
<kristianpaul>
:(
<kyak>
wpwrak: thanks for the debwrt link, i'll have a look
<wpwrak>
kyak: if they're as extreme as openwrt, their work may not be directly useful. but they'll have to solve a number of problems that, according to zrafa, still prevent debian from being a good choice for such small devices. so in the worst case, if there are any results at all, they'll make it easier to do something interesting for us
<larsc>
afaik it's a debian with openwrt kernel patches
<wpwrak>
oh, nothing more ? i was hoping they'd tackle the big task of splitting packages into smaller chunks as well
<wpwrak>
well, maybe they're not aware of that problem yet. that would be an interesting surprise. heh heh :)
<kyak>
well, at least the image can be built now when libiconv, gettext and glib2 are overriden
<wpwrak>
kyak: i think the two of you are talking about different things
<kyak>
why is that?
<wpwrak>
kyak: maybe try to see if you can grab him in IRC. could be easier to converge.
<kyak>
yes, might be a good idea
<wpwrak>
jow says there's no difference. you imply there is and then you explain why the change makes things hard.
<wpwrak>
so it seems that the first question should be why jow thinks there is no difference in function
<kyak>
i told him about the "no difference". then i again explained why it is needed
<wpwrak>
i.e., maybe there is indeed something wrong in libiconv that made it functionless ? or maybe he doesn't understand your use case ? or maybe he does understand but rejects it ? many possible interpretations, and progress will be difficult if you can't find out which one it the right one
<kyak>
now, he said "it is the same, but 10x less size"
<wpwrak>
exactly
<kyak>
then i shown him that it's not the same
<kyak>
beacuse i.e. fbterm can't be linked
<kyak>
and because he himself has to unstub it all the time
<kyak>
and i also asked if it was the same, why *-full versions are there?
<wpwrak>
yes, but the action to take depends on why he thinks it's the same while it apparently isn't
<kyak>
that might be in his next answer
<wpwrak>
e.g., if it indeed be a fully equivalent replacement, then the fix would be to enhance the stub accordingly
<wpwrak>
er  .. if it is indeed intended to be ...
<kyak>
a lot of things can be chosen in openwrt by configuration
<kyak>
even enabling wide character support in underlying libs
<kyak>
but using full versions of libiconv and libintl (and accordingly in all other dependent apps) is not blocked
<kyak>
*is now blocked
<kyak>
a user will have to modify Makefiles for that
<wpwrak>
(many options) seems that there's no good mechanism for having variants for the same functionality, though (or otherwise, you would have used that one)
<wpwrak>
(variants) e.g., package X needs a libc, but doesn't care which one. or an editor. or a shell. whatever.
<kyak>
something very bad has happened
<kyak>
from my opinion, since those stub libs appeared, openwrt is seriously broken
<lekernel>
well, it's using GNU software, so it's obviously broken :)
<lekernel>
but as long as it somehow works, why care...
<wpwrak>
is looking forward to savour the sheer elegance and speed of sebcc
<lekernel>
just use llvm...
<kyak>
movie time...
<wpwrak>
*grin*
<kristianpaul>
I wonder if linux can be compiled with llvm
<lekernel>
no, it's full of GNU extensions and therefore equally broken
<lekernel>
the freebsd kernel can
<kristianpaul>
(freebsd) oh, so the finally drop gcc?
<lekernel>
i've heard of some effort to mimic the gnu extensions in llvm, but I don't know what the state is
<lekernel>
they're trying to... I don't know when it'll be the main compiler
<kristianpaul>
Sure all we know when, that will be on the news everywhere ;-)
<lekernel>
what I love is when the GNUtards blame Microsoft for trying to discreetly put loads of proprietary extensions on every computer
<lekernel>
cf. autoconf, gcc, ...
<lekernel>
autoconf is horrible when used on a gnu system and cannot be named when used on a non-gnu system
<lekernel>
it's full of obscure checks to make sure you're using the GNU stuff everywhere
<kristianpaul>
GNU is the whole thing  indeed :-)
<lekernel>
and it infects the source of many software packages like nasty windows malware
<wpwrak>
wheee ! my UPS dodged a brown-out ! :)
<wpwrak>
lekernel: just don't use it ? i never saw a need for autoconf and friends
<lekernel>
I'm not using it, but many software packages do, including libraries and tools that I need and for which there is no equivalent without autocrap
<lekernel>
if GNU/Autocrap was merely self-contained, I wouldn't make such a fuss. but the problem is that shit is everywhere
<wpwrak>
hmm, libs and stuff usually don't leak their autojunk much. at least not in my experience. it just becomes part of the build instructions.
<wpwrak>
the only real annoyance are those who assume that you know the whole automake, autoconf, configure canon by heart and don't even provide a script to run the whole mess
<lekernel>
yeah, and good luck fixing those when they break (and they DO break, all the time, on non-gnu systems, sometimes clearly on purpose)
<lekernel>
just how many different and patched autocrap versions you can count in the openbsd ports tree
<wpwrak>
ah, interesting. well, happily i'm on linux all the time :)
<wpwrak>
but it is kinda ironic if autocrap forces you to a specific kind of platform
<lekernel>
and they call that tools to make software portable. this is not true. they're GNU propaganda tools, which attempt to conceal the fact that they make porting software hard on non-GNU platforms by making you believe software is hard to port in general
<wpwrak>
;-)))
<wpwrak>
and soon we'll find out the truth behind JFK, 9/11, and most of all, Elvis :)
<lekernel>
"let's check that the cos function, mandated by many standards, exists in libm - and do that in a way that stresses either the shell, compiler, linker or both, so it can break on a non-GNU system"
<lekernel>
etc. etc.
<lekernel>
autocrap is all about those (and puking out shell scripts that are more unreadable than the blobs the FSF makes so much fuss about)
<wpwrak>
well, such breakage may not necessarily be deliberate. i've quite often run into quirky environmental issues i hadn't anticipated. and propaganda was the last thing on my mind ...
<lekernel>
well maybe
<lekernel>
never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity ;)
<wpwrak>
yeah :)
<wpwrak>
a particularly nasty source of breakage is l10n. even seemingly harmless things like  for n in [a-z]; ...  become unreliable
<mth>
lekernel: there is a modified gcc that emit llvm bytecode, using that it should be possible to compile sources that use GNU extensions and still use llvm for the final code generation
<lekernel>
thanks. but I use clang and no GNU extensions - except those that are implemented on other major systems; sometimes they manage to do things that don't suck technically, like asprintf()
<mth>
yes, that's better for new code, but it can be useful to have an alternative for existing code
<kristianpaul>
Ha,
<kristianpaul>
How could be easier add 6 bits to a 2bit data in order to be easilly processed?..
<kristianpaul>
also that bloat a the whole thing..
<kristianpaul>
mhmm
<wpwrak>
how about worrying about optimization after the algorithm works ? :)
<kristianpaul>
yes, it just was a suguesstion from the guy who is helping me to analize the data
<wpwrak>
ah, i see
<kristianpaul>
he said google python unpack for more details...
<bartbes>
doesn't it make more sense to stuff 4 'data units' in a byte instead?
<kristianpaul>
thats how it is right know
<kristianpaul>
but seems i hard to process data wich is orinally 2 bits wide in that way..
<kristianpaul>
I dont know i need read more about it
<bartbes>
why?
<bartbes>
bitshift to the proper position
<bartbes>
then %4
<bartbes>
4? no
<bartbes>
or wait..
<bartbes>
yes, 4, I was right after all :P
<wpwrak>
& 3 :)
<bartbes>
same
<bartbes>
just bitwise
<wpwrak>
uint8_t in, out[4]; for (i = 0; i != 4; i++) out[i] = (in >> (2*i)) & 3;
<wpwrak>
no need to figure out fancy packing functions :)
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/include/at86rf230.h: make one section per register, not one per field http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/bd5b008
<wpwrak>
i waited 1 minute after the push before asking about them
<wolfspraul>
yes, 3 minutes on irclogs...
<wpwrak>
heh. the laws of relativity also apply in irc, it seems :)
<wolfspraul>
roh: for the m1 case, how can I tell which side of the top and bottom plates are meant to be inside, and which one is outside?
<wolfspraul>
it looks like one side of the edge is a bit rounder, maybe that's the one that should point outwards...
<wolfspraul>
hey I just realized - the power connector says "DC 5V IN", maybe I would add "TIP +" if there is enough space.
<wpwrak>
is the ubiquitous "disc in arc" symbol encumbered ?
<wpwrak>
zrafa: hmm, why do i need to  apt-get install libconfuse0  in order to install jlime in NAND ?
<wpwrak>
or is this a (missing) dependency of xburst-tools ?
<wpwrak>
zrafa: (hwiki/JlimeDownloadsAndInstallation )ow about putting the s/NAND_FORCEERASE... in the section about installing xburst-tools ?
<wpwrak>
zrafa: also, why the 201002 version ? that one has at least two major known bugs (one parser bug, and the u-boot-killing nand erase wrap made famous by debian)
<wpwrak>
zrafa: at least in 201012, NAND_FORCEERASE is already set. one item less to worry about;-)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: it was a requirement for xburst-tools, maybe you do not need if you have another version
<wpwrak>
Checking 454656 bytes... Comparing 454656 bytes - FAIL at off 2048, wrote 0x0, read 0xff  :-(
<wpwrak>
so far, so bad ... let's try another one ...
<wpwrak>
grmbl.the same with #2
<wpwrak>
let's try xburst-tools 201007 ...
<wpwrak>
the same. but the device was already booted. rebooting ...
<zrafa>
wpwrak: NAND_FORCEERASE: yeah, that should be on xburst-tools section.
<wolfspraul>
the limited experience I had with Renesas was positive.
<wolfspraul>
but I think the Japanese in general have their whole own take on the proprietary/free/secrecy thing, on their cultural (Japanese) background.
<wolfspraul>
and I have no clue about that, so it's kinda mysterious :-)
<wpwrak>
interesting. didn't usbboot -c ... but instead brought up usbboot interactively and pasted the commands individually. this time it worked.
<wpwrak>
zrafa: "The system will not boot if there were problems, and it will be harder to get usbboot again." euphemism of the year 2010 ? ;-)
<lekernel>
"Trust us, YOU WANT THIS KIT. IT'S COOL!"
<lekernel>
lol
<wpwrak>
the nice thing about this flash failure is that it leaves just enough of the system intact that reset+U still works
<wpwrak>
lekernel: guy at a bar, to a girl "please please sleep with me ! i'm the coolest dude !" starts crying "PLEASE ! PLEASE !"
<lekernel>
"Demonstration Kit featuring the RX62N series 32-bit MCU, which has on-chip flash memory and enhanced communication functions, including an Ethernet controller, USB 2.0, and CAN. " seems rather boring to me. except that I could use the CAN to talk to that stupid black box they put in my car and is causing me trouble atm
<wolfspraul>
"login or register to RenesasRulz"
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
I think that's really cute actually. They try to be hip...
<wolfspraul>
"But wait, there's MORE..."
<wpwrak>
xiangfu is on ia32 or x86-64 ?
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: you meant owrt toolchain?
<lekernel>
speaking about CAN and ODB2, is there any open source solution to fix car calculator problems?
<lekernel>
didn't find any :(
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: naw, xburst-tools. seems that i found another flashing bug. (see above)
<kristianpaul>
oh
<lekernel>
googling these keywords yields craploads of forum posts without much brilliance and dubious products
<wpwrak>
zrafa: i think jlime still needs the  touch /etc/shadow
<wpwrak>
i wonder how hard it would be to have the "nice" console font right after booting
<wpwrak>
well, after reset, during boot
<wpwrak>
zrafa: grmbl. how do you exit the audio player ? :)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: esc, alt + f4?
<kristianpaul>
ah gmu
<kristianpaul>
f1 then alt + enter
<wejp>
you don't need to press f1 first
<wejp>
it is always alt + enter, unless the keymap has been changed of course
<wejp>
in the new version i have changed it to Alt+Q, because so many found the alt+enter so confusing
<wpwrak>
wejp: ah, alt-enter works. thanks !
<wejp>
oh and you can always change it to something else, if you don't like it. just edit the nanonote.keymap file
<wpwrak>
opkg install ldd
<wpwrak>
Killed
<wpwrak>
:-(
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: they guy is helping me (Fabrizio) is using a python code to analize the data, i pushed him to realize the code publically so 2 bits support  can be added
<kristianpaul>
let's see how it goes
<kristianpaul>
Now time to increase a bit the fpga buffer size :D
<wpwrak>
gaah. those things really suck without counterweight ! un-be-lief-able that anyone would even think of selling such crap :)
<wpwrak>
(the wlan is pretty far away, that's why it's a little weak)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: neat !
<wpwrak>
atrf-rssi uses sdl-gfx
<kristianpaul>
the visualiation is kind retro, (wich make it more awesome i think)
<kristianpaul>
:-)
<kristianpaul>
I see you're runing Jlime ;-)
<kyak>
wpwrak: what's the current status of wpan? is it working and you can send/receive data?
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: can you zoom in on screen a bit more?
<wpwrak>
(jlime) of course. i lack the youthful energy to mess with openwrt :)
<wpwrak>
kyak:i'm currently tweaking the RF behaviour. send/receive worked already a very long time ago. but there's no stack yet - just a utility to send/receive "bare" frames
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: i'll take a picture just of atrf-rssi ... actually, i can do that on the PC. easier :)
<kyak>
wpwrak: i really hope your work will get implemented in some future versions of NanoNote (and soon). I lack wireless capabilities so much :)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: nice work on gui. it even have shadow
<wpwrak>
kyak: the idea is to make a few experimental boards soon. their rf probably won't be optimal, but they should be good enough for playing.
<kristianpaul>
oh i remenber know you draw the numbers your self
<kristianpaul>
s/kwno/now
<wolfspraul>
that is such a cool video!
<wolfspraul>
I assume it's not fake, right? :-)
<wpwrak>
kyak: oh, and i'm forced to switch to a different chip. i didn't like this idea at first, but the new chip (which is very similar and nearly pin-compatible) has a number of nice features. including a high-speed modes where it gets up to 2 Mbps. real throughput with this may be in the order of 0.5 Mbps.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: it's all real ;-)
<wolfspraul>
so that measures live traffic as you see it on the antenna/the rf chip?
<kyak>
wpwrak: this is all very cool, the only issue i think can be that people don't have wpan-enabled access points to connect Ben to, am i right?
<wolfspraul>
what is it useful for?
<wolfspraul>
kyak: first, they can have a second NanoNote :-)
<wolfspraul>
or, we are nice, we are making both 8:10 card and usb versions
<wolfspraul>
so you can have one in your (Linux powered) notebook
<kyak>
oh yes, and then one NanoNote can be connected via USB and "share" Internet with another :)
<wolfspraul>
or router, for that matter
<wolfspraul>
correct :-)
<wolfspraul>
but there's a usb variant
<kyak>
i see, it sounds so cool
<kyak>
is there any schedule, even approxiamte? :)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: this just shows the signal strength. it doesn't actually demodulate or decocde things.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: the purpose is a) just to for me to verify things, abn b) to have an idea where there is a quiet place in the local spectrum
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: in the video the only Ben with wpan was that?, i mean you just we're measuring your place?
<wolfspraul>
sure for finding quiet spectrum it's nice
<wpwrak>
kyak: also minus the connector at the bottom. that one's for the initial flash load (there's a microcontroller on the board)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: yes, and then i let a laptop (about two rooms away) hammer its channel for a few seconds
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: you should attach a gps (wich is easy btw) go give a walk around neigboorhood and map spectrum as well
<kristianpaul>
I mean at least first floor measurements ;-)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: hah, i can just do a wifi scan. then i know pretty well what's crawling around here. i don't think there are too many people who are emitting anything different from WLAN at 2.4-2.5 GHz.
<wpwrak>
well, maybe microwave ovens. mine has enough leakage to knock out the wlan (already operating at its limit)
<kristianpaul>
ok ;-)
<wpwrak>
kyak: estimate ... hmm, around 2-month-ish, i'd say. i need to test the new chip. then a few RF improvements in the USB board. next, see how the one for the ben behaves (haven't done any "good" measurements of that one yet)
<wpwrak>
kyak: then i can send some samples to wolfgang. we also need to figure out how to do initial flashing and the testing.
<wpwrak>
add one "the"
<wolfspraul>
and I hope we find time for some boom and other process innovation
<wolfspraul>
(on my end too, I have a nice set of todos I want to get done before/with ben-wpan)
<wpwrak>
what would they be ?
<wolfspraul>
in boom: mouser
<wolfspraul>
use the new cmdline options to auto-generate some files
<wolfspraul>
(kicad based)
<wpwrak>
(mouser) very good
<wolfspraul>
document the process well, and ideally little by little automate it more, with Makefiles etc.
<wpwrak>
(new files) have you seen that i already do that ? (in ben-wpan/bom/)
<wolfspraul>
so the path from projects server to actual run becomes better documented and better automated
<wolfspraul>
all not without reason, i.e. we want to actually produce the boards asap, but we also want to invest a little for the future
<wolfspraul>
the usual mix that we do already for 1.5 years :-)
<wpwrak>
yeah :)
<wpwrak>
regarding the process, i think the way boom currently interfaces with the world around it is a little too hardcore for most people
<wolfspraul>
(I'm just explaining this to kyak so he has an idea for the schedule, I think werner and I are already mostly on the same page)
<wpwrak>
it also lacks transparency. e.g., it's difficult to track why boom did this or that. so there's still quite a bit of work waiting.
<wolfspraul>
sure. if you can cut out a little improvement and get it done, that's great.
<wolfspraul>
I have my share to do, need to dig deeper...
<wpwrak>
so i wouldn't "sell" boom in its present state as a solution. more as a tool you can use to provide a solution, but ideally without making people spend time to figure it all out themselves (unless they like the challenge, of course ;-)
<wolfspraul>
sure
<wolfspraul>
the direction is good
<wolfspraul>
we just need to keep improving little by little
<wolfspraul>
if we improve nothing, it's bad. if we try too much at once, we will fail as well.
<kyak>
wpwrak: it's very promising and nice! and USB board seems to be very small
<wpwrak>
(little improvement) my current plan is to just patch it up if necessary, so that it doesn't fall apart in mid-flight. the big cleanup will need a re-implementation. everything in C, so that the data structures are cleaner, with interactive browsing of things.
<wpwrak>
in particular, i want to bring it closer to kicad. make it part already of the design process, not something that runs like an afterthought
<wpwrak>
e.g., when i add a resistor, i'd want to select the symbol in kicad and then let kicad send the data it has on that symbol to the bom processor (this interface could and should be generic and relatively simple)
<wpwrak>
in the bom processor, one would then refine the query until something suitable is found in the catalog. then that data could be sent back to kicad.
<wpwrak>
this would replace the current (manual) eeschema-digikey loop and the eeschema-boom loop when adding hints to steer boom in the right direction. you could of course still do things in this way.
<wpwrak>
the interface on the boom side could be something similar to the parametric search in the digi-key catalog. once you've selected something, boom could put the parameters in the clipboard, and kicad could retrieve them from there and complement the symbol information
<wolfspraul>
ok you have the best overview
<wolfspraul>
I will just add things on the surface, like mouser.
<wolfspraul>
that's a good contribution
<wolfspraul>
you need to pull the core forward for the time being
<wpwrak>
mouser will be great. i'm sure there will be surprises :)
<wpwrak>
by the way, another interesting project would be making the pcb equivalent of schhist
<wolfspraul>
for sure, but I don't think I get to it the next 1-2 months or so
<wolfspraul>
too many things already
<wpwrak>
hehe :)
<wolfspraul>
I need to spend some time to get the cmdline stuff upstream
<wolfspraul>
don't want to leave too much one-off garbage behind
<wpwrak>
yup, that's important
<wolfspraul>
brdhist is definitely on the wish-list, I am hoping you start it one day :-)
<wpwrak>
agreed. that's just maintenance nightmares piling up
<wolfspraul>
if not, I am not against taking up the shovel, it's just not high enough in the priority list yet
<wolfspraul>
we do need it, for sure
<wolfspraul>
I think a proper boom is even more valuable though.
<wpwrak>
difficult comparison :) they have different audiences and different complexity
<wolfspraul>
agreed
<wolfspraul>
what they have in common is only that both are needed for a proper process
<wolfspraul>
for totally different reasons
<wolfspraul>
schhist is there, and robust, and working. so I consider that one 'done' for now...
<wpwrak>
yeah. schhist is a useful tool already. what i should add some day is a version/mode in which it just compares two revisions locally. like git-diff
<wpwrak>
right now, i sometimes commit stuff, wait until schhist has updated, and then check on the web if i guessed my changes right ;-)