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<weaksauce>
hololeap out of curiosity, what's the use case?
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<hololeap>
weaksauce: trying to set up a multi-threaded web scraper with a queue
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<weaksauce>
hololeap can you not accomplish that with sidekiq?
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<hololeap>
weaksauce: i don't know. i haven't used sidekiq, but it seems like it's made for setting up a number of jobs and then running them from a shell. i want to keep it all within a ruby script and just use native threads
<weaksauce>
it's a background task worker hololeap
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<weaksauce>
one use case is sending emails after someone signs up to your website. you create the task and it gets thrown into a queue.
<hololeap>
weaksauce: what i was planning to do is have multiple threads that pull an object (string, url, etc) from a queue, process the object, potentially add a new object to the queue, then repeat until the queue is empty all threads are complete
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<hololeap>
weaksauce: its a basic pattern that i've needed for a number of web-scraping apps. would sidekiq be able to help with this? i was planning on just extending Queue with the redis-objects gem
<weaksauce>
it sounds like sidekiq is right up your alley.
<hololeap>
ok. i'll look into it further. it seemed like it wasn't quite what i was looking for, but perhaps it can be leveraged
<weaksauce>
basically you'd start the crawl on one page or a list of pages and then those pages create new background jobs for each link.
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<hololeap>
weaksauce: is it possible to limit the number of running jobs?
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<jackcom>
toast = Proc.new do puts 'Cheers! end == toast = Proc.new(do puts 'Cheers! end)?
<mozzarella>
no
<hololeap>
Proc.new { puts 'Cheers' }
<jackcom>
why?
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<mozzarella>
it's the same as Proc.new() do puts 'Cheers!' end
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<hololeap>
anything within the curly braces {} is a block. anything between parenthesis () is a list of arguments (aka parameters)
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<jackcom>
thanks hololeap and mozzarella
<jackcom>
;)
<hololeap>
a block can either look like `do block_code end` or `{ block_code}`
<jackcom>
good
<hololeap>
you don't need the "do" or "end" when using the curly braces
<jackcom>
i understand
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<hololeap>
k
<jackcom>
Proc.new do puts 'Cheers! end == Proc.new() do puts 'Cheers!' end ?
<jfarmer>
jackcom: Your instinct is a fair one, though. Seems like you're thinking of a block as a kind of function you can pass to other functions, hence "Proc.new(do ... end)" might make sense.
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<jackcom>
:) jfarmer thanks i think so
<jfarmer>
While that's conceptually true, blocks can't be passed directly as arguments like that.
<jackcom>
yeah
<jackcom>
using Proc
<jfarmer>
Yes, you can pass Proc objects as arguments, but they still don't "fit" in the same place as blocks.
<jfarmer>
Like...
<jfarmer>
These are not the same:
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<jfarmer>
[1,2,3,4].each do |num|
<jfarmer>
puts "The number is #{num}"
<jfarmer>
end
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<jfarmer>
vs.
<jfarmer>
do_stuff = Proc.new { |num| puts "The number is #{num}" }
<jfarmer>
[1,2,3,4].each(do_stuff)
<jfarmer>
The "seems" like the same thing, but the latter will give some kind of error (not sure what kind off the top of my head).
<hololeap>
jackcom: you can use a Proc object as a block by putting & in front of it, but a method can only take one block whether it be from a Proc object or a "traditional" block
<jackcom>
finally ‘Proc.new’ is same to ‘Proc.new()'
<hololeap>
jackcom: if the argument list is empty you can leave the () off
<jfarmer>
Yeah, so, not to confuse you further, but blocks in Ruby have this special place. You can "pass" a block to _any_ function/method in Ruby as the "last" argument — that's built right into the language.
<hololeap>
jackcom: for any function
<hololeap>
jackcom: not just Proc.new(). ['this', 'that'].each == ['this
<jfarmer>
It's like an invisible argument slot that Ruby adds to every method, which you pass in using different syntax.
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<jfarmer>
You can prefix an argument with & to tell Ruby: "I'm passing this in as a normal argument, but treat it like the block argument." So [1,2,3,4].each(do_stuff) would raid an error saying you didn't supply a block while [1,2,3,4].each(&do_stuff) would work as expected.
<jfarmer>
jackcom: Ok, cool.
<jackcom>
;)
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<jfarmer>
Probably one of the Top 5 most Ruby-specific things in the language.
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<jfarmer>
jackcom: If you're curious, the syntax was borrowed directly from Smalltalk.
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<jackcom>
Smalltalk oh
<jackcom>
nice
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<jfarmer>
Not the &-business, though, that's a Ruby-ism. In Smalltalk, blocks could be used much like you thought to use them initially (as plain ol' values)
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<hololeap>
jackcom: one other thing you might be interested in: if you pass (&:whatever), it will call the "whatever" method on the passed object, so these are the same:
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<Jarsue>
Yea thanks
<Jarsue>
Should I read the in-depth one?
<Jarsue>
The Gemfile manual.
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<St1gma>
Gemfiles are gem (library) configuration files for bundler (a dependency "checker")
<sevenseacat>
just getting an overview of what bundler does will likely be sufficuent.
<sevenseacat>
sufficient
<St1gma>
Some things you have to read Jarsue, otherwise you will have answers that are a simple Google away from you.
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<shevy>
reading the right thing makes you a smarter person
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<St1gma>
^
<St1gma>
I'm not saying go read the full RFC22616 (HTTP) in order to understand basic HTTP methods, but some minor reading of documentation is always useful to have at least a basic understanding of how things work, as as shevy said, you will end up being a smarter more capable person.
<shevy>
catching the right mice makes you a better cat
<shevy>
oh
<shevy>
I am notoriously lazy
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* sevenseacat
is reading Programming Elixir, does that count?
<shevy>
I wouldn't read anything myself, I'd just ask on IRC :D
<St1gma>
who isn't
<shevy>
yeah sevenseacat you are an educated cat. though I have no idea how useful elixir is
<shevy>
I still have not finished "The C Programming language" either :(
<sevenseacat>
me either, but it's interesting
<Allenom>
lol..
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<shevy>
sometimes you get a new insight by looking at things differently or from a different angle
<Allenom>
shevy, Why you reading K&R?
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<St1gma>
only a handful of books that I've read, like Shellcoder's Handbook (just the first one, I got too lazy on the second one), Hacking: The art of exploitation, and How to program C++. I was forced to read some Java stuff at school but that was about it for Java, I felt dirty.
<Allenom>
St1gma, That C++ book is horrible.
<St1gma>
oh and TCP/IP Illustrated Vol1 <- very good book
<sevenseacat>
i upset my computer by telling ot calculate the factorial of 100,000,000
<Allenom>
There are only x good books for C++.
<St1gma>
Allenom: yeah it was given to me :S
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<Allenom>
St1gma, Damn..
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<sevenseacat>
that took 14GB of memory very very quickly
<shevy>
Allenom I am semi-ok with regular ruby code, and did not feel as if I progress much for quite a long while (no surprise, I am lazy); so I'd have to learn something new... either a new programming language (like nim), or rails (but I dunno...) or C (then I could help with bindings in ruby, if I'd ever get myself to grok pointers... it's what stops me usually, I think I need to have it make "click" in my brain)
<sevenseacat>
i have no interest in re-learning C
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<Allenom>
shevy, Why don't you try to get really good at Rails. Also, I will give you an advice. There are people that are very good with Rails and have pretty good ideas, but I will tell it, they are stupid. And they are stupid because they don't execute their ideas and end up working for someone else.
<shevy>
hehe
<Allenom>
I have seen people executing so bad ideas at the right time, and now yea they have huge companies.
<shevy>
nah, rails just doesn't excite me. I trust linus and matz
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<shevy>
oops didn't finish reading before typing
<Allenom>
shevy, What doesn't excite you?
<shevy>
I am not fully awake yet ...
<shevy>
rails!
<Allenom>
Yes, for what reason?
<sevenseacat>
lol, calling people stupid
<St1gma>
I feel the same about it :S
<sevenseacat>
Allenom: I probably wouldnt do that.
<St1gma>
I never got into it and I mostly write stuff in Sinatra when I have to do web related things.
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<St1gma>
I just don't have the time to learn the monster Rails API
<Allenom>
sevenseacat, Yes because I get tired everyday when I heard people, "what to do to success". Well, fkn execute your ideas and stop whining. You will never have enough skills.
<Allenom>
hear*
<sevenseacat>
and what does that have to do with rails?
<Allenom>
shevy, Also, what don't you understand about pointers?
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<St1gma>
*
<sevenseacat>
because that just sounds like you're calling all people who are good at rails stupid, which i have a small issue with.
<Allenom>
sevenseacat, Because some will whine that Rails is not the right tool to use for startups and I'm like, are you ok?
<sevenseacat>
your logic seems really really faulty
<St1gma>
Allenom: so what is the argument behind that?
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<St1gma>
Allenom: I'm not sure I understand, if you know rails really well, you can get up and running very fast with little issue.
<shevy>
Allenom everything
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<Allenom>
sevenseacat, That's why I'm working as a quant, because my logic was faulty all the way, right? :)
<shevy>
Allenom rails does not excite me because I don't know what I gain
<Allenom>
shevy, Tell me I will help you.
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<shevy>
what with!
<Allenom>
With pointers.
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<shevy>
aaah ok
<shevy>
thought you meant rails
<shevy>
pointers also don't excite me much haha :)
<Allenom>
And also, what do you mean by "I don't know what I gain" ?
<shevy>
with rails
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<Allenom>
Because of it's magic?
<shevy>
no
<shevy>
I am not sure why I should use rails
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<shevy>
hmm how many downloads from rubygems.org are due to bots?
<Allenom>
For prototypes. You can get up and running really fast. There are some languages you should prefer if you are a startup or alone in a project. Once your project becomes really big and needs, for example to run faster, by that time you sure have investors to lend you money so you can hire developers :)
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<diegoviola>
pointers are easy
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<Allenom>
diegoviola, They are? :)
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<diegoviola>
Allenom: I won't lie, I hard a hard time to understand them, but I think I got it now
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<sevenseacat>
Allenom: dunno what a quant is, but there are very real problems with saying 'people who are good at rails are stupid because they dont realize their ideas and whine a lot'
<Allenom>
diegoviola, What's the difference between int* buffer1[10]; and int (*buffer2)[10]; ?
<diegoviola>
int main(void) { int a = 10; int *p; *p = &a; printf("value of a is: %d", *p); return 0; } <-- returns value of a through the pointer variable
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<diegoviola>
actually that would be p = &a;
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<sevenseacat>
anyway
* sevenseacat
goes back to reading
<diegoviola>
Allenom: I don't know
<shevy>
the cat is distracted by IRC!
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<Allenom>
diegoviola, So, you don't understand pointers yet :)
<diegoviola>
okay
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<shevy>
diegoviola welcome to my world!
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<Allenom>
I will give you an easy one for both
<Allenom>
What's the difference between, void foo(char arr[]); and void boo(char *arr); ?
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<Allenom>
shevy, The above question will help you a lot.
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<_blizzy_>
anyone know any good sandbox gems for ruby?
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<dorei>
hello
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<dorei>
let's say i have some code that scraps a url
<dorei>
how can i test that?
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<dorei>
i guess that the tests should be run against a prefetched instance of the url's html
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<atmosx>
dorei: You could run tests on a live website using capybara (js too). But what happens if that URL structure/css ids and calsses change without prior notification? :-)
<atmosx>
bbl
<dorei>
i dont want to run it on a live website
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<arup_r>
any direct command to do the same as : Dir.mkdir(directory_name) unless File.exists?(directory_name) ?
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<arup_r>
Am I visible ?
<sevenseacat>
no.
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<arup_r>
ok
<arup_r>
:)
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<adaedra>
arup_r: there's a mkdir_p somewhere
<arup_r>
yes,, just found
<arup_r>
thanks
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<HotCoder>
hello there
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<HotCoder>
what ide/editor do you guys use for ruby?
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<Jamo>
vim
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<sevenseacat>
sublime text
<adaedra>
vim
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<certainty>
emacs
<HotCoder>
interesting
<HotCoder>
i think i'll use sublime
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<certainty>
*nod*
<diegoviola>
vim
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<diegoviola>
certainty: do you use evil with emacs?
<apeiros>
HotCoder: sublime
<HotCoder>
yeah
<HotCoder>
i'll do that too
<HotCoder>
fuck i forgot my git password
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<wasamasa>
diegoviola: I do!
<diegoviola>
wasamasa: how do you like it
<wasamasa>
diegoviola: I like it
<diegoviola>
wasamasa: I need to try that sometime
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<wasamasa>
diegoviola: just don't use a starterkit, hmkay
<diegoviola>
wtf is that?
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<wasamasa>
well
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<wasamasa>
ever heard of oh-my-zsh?
<certainty>
diegoviola: nope
<wasamasa>
that's a starterkit for zsh
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<certainty>
i do use a starterkit for zsh
<sevenseacat>
i dont
<diegoviola>
wasamasa: I don't use oh-my-zsh
<diegoviola>
nor zsh
<wasamasa>
well, ok
<diegoviola>
and yes I heard of it
<diegoviola>
but I never used it
<wasamasa>
the thing is that there's these things, but for emacs/vim
<certainty>
i use zpresto for zsh and i like it
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<wasamasa>
they're basically huge and complicated configs coming with snazzy looking things that then turn out to take a life of their own and being hard to debug
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<DLSteve>
wasamasa, Yah I just use standard bash for that reasion.
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<wasamasa>
which is very weird because you try the standard advice for modifying PATH and it just doesn't work
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<certainty>
agreed. OTOH getting to a configuration that is somewhat complete can easily take long without starterkits in emacs
<wasamasa>
so you'll have instead to bother the people who wrote it
<HotCoder>
i wish i knew wtf you guys were talking about
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<DLSteve>
HotCoder, setting up emacs I think.
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<wasamasa>
nah, the discussion hasn't even come to that point yet
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* HotCoder
wishes he knew a lot about ruby
* HotCoder
feels awkward
<sevenseacat>
start learning :)
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<HotCoder>
how long does it take one to "git gud"?
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<sevenseacat>
depends.
<certainty>
10 years
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<arup_r>
I have this array. --> ["Greco Roman Ltd", "Twisted Records (INgrooves)"] and I want to get the result as "'Greco Roman Ltd','Twisted Records (INgrooves)'" Is it possible ?
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<havenwood>
arup_r: yup!
<arup_r>
>> ["Greco Roman Ltd", "Twisted Records (INgrooves)"].join(",")
<arup_r>
But can you tell me why are you against to put it inside `sh` method ? what is the disadvantage of it ? Asking for self knowledge
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<shevy>
:)
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<apeiros>
arup_r: I suggest you think about the reason. pros and contras.
<yxhuvud>
.. loading the full rails environment in something that should be fast? Heh.
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<arup_r>
humm... then I need to wait for situations to understand why it is bad.. Right now my skills not helping me to imagine why is it bad.. But I'll remember your warnings...
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<arup_r>
yxhuvud: rake db:create also does load.. Right ? :)
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<arup_r>
and all rake db:*... etc.. ??
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<yxhuvud>
yes.
<shevy>
I love colours
<arup_r>
I am seeing it fast here...
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<yxhuvud>
arup: it will grow slower as your app grows.
<apeiros>
arup_r: I think you should start with this question: why do you shell out in the first place?
<yxhuvud>
but it may not matter if you don't need to do it often
<arup_r>
yxhuvud: daily once...
<arup_r>
this task will be invoked..
<yxhuvud>
if nothing else, it is quite possible to invoke rake tasks directly from the code.
<arup_r>
yes.. I did so from the controller..
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<arup_r>
:D
<arup_r>
apeiros: humm..
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<shevy>
undefined method `parse' for Time:Class (NoMethodError)
<shevy>
hmmm
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<adaedra>
strptime
<adaedra>
or it's in another class, maybe
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<kstuart>
DateTime.parse
<kstuart>
then you can do #to_time if you want a time object
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<mordof>
for turning a string into a time object?
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<mordof>
it'd be nice if Time could do the full parsing in that scenario.
<hectortrope>
Hi can some one tell me where can I learn about api?
<hectortrope>
api management
<apeiros>
kstuart: Time has parse of its own
<apeiros>
shevy: a) as adaedra already said, use strptime over parse, b) require 'time'.
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<kstuart>
true, uses Date._parse
<apeiros>
mordof: Time can.
<apeiros>
kstuart: yes. and does not generate an intermediary DateTime object
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<kstuart>
I've just been doing a load of DateTime parsing and assumed from shevy's message Time had no parse...
<kstuart>
my bad ;)
<kstuart>
I see Date Time and DateTime all have parse method
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<apeiros>
kstuart: Time doesn't have .parse - until you require 'time'.
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<kstuart>
yeah, I see that in the docs "When ‘time’ is required, Time is extended with additional methods for parsing and converting Times."
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* arup_r
expecting a "good job!!" ... but :(
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<diegoviola>
damn, tried i3-wm, can't go back...
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<adaedra>
it's a good thing
<diegoviola>
yes
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<shevy>
I fell asleep not long after asking my last question :(
<shevy>
the heat is killing me
<veleno>
hello. there is something that i can’t get write: https://gist.github.com/vschiavoni/514503fc5ca1f644b4f4 very simple client/server. the client sends strings that the server is supposed to receive and print. but instead, the server closes and exit abruptly just after the server.accept
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<ebonics>
veleno, why are you calling server.accept twice
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<Cache_Money>
I just installed rbenv through Homebrew `$ brew install rbenv ruby-build`. I then tried `$ rbenv install 2.2.2` but I got "ruby-build: definition not found: 2.2.2" What do I need to do to install 2.2.2?
<ebonics>
shevy, theres not much code there lol
<ebonics>
you can surely convert it to ruby
<shevy>
ebonics \o/
<shevy>
I am trying to collect all short pdf-based thingies out there
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<Cache_Money>
^^ I had to upgrade ruby-build (brew upgrade --HEAD ruby-build) to get 2.2.2
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<shevy>
at rubular.com one can make a permalink
<shevy>
how long will such a link persist?
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<atmosx>
hello people
<havenwood>
atmosx: hellooo
<atmosx>
havenwood: how's life?
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<havenwood>
atmosx: pretty good
<atmosx>
havenwood: nice :D
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<bb010g>
What's the equivalent of `rvm docs generate` for rbenv? I've been looking around and haven't found anything.
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<havenwood>
bb010g: So you want both ri and rdoc for gems and ruby?
<bb010g>
havenwood: Yes.
<havenwood>
bb010g: You can use the rdoc command from the src dir where Ruby was built.
<havenwood>
bb010g: For ri: rdoc -V -a --ri-site
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<havenwood>
bb010g: For gem docs: gem rdoc --all --ri
<havenwood>
bb010g: Then whatever these paths translate to: rdoc -V -a -o "${rvm_docs_path:-"$rvm_path/docs"}/$rvm_docs_ruby_string/$rvm_docs_type"
<bb010g>
havenwood: That has to be from the build dir? Currently using ruby-build, and haven't seen any way to hook into that. There's .patch support for source, but no hooks
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<bb010g>
Also, rdoc-data --install gives: Your ruby version 2.1.0 is not supported, only 1.8.7, 1.9.2, 1.9.3, 2.0.0
<havenwood>
bb010g: Ah, that must have been for older Rubies only - I guess you don't need it anymore.
<havenwood>
bb010g: I was just skimming rvm's code.
<havenwood>
bb010g: It looks like they nuke the src dir by default: -k/--keep Keep source tree in $RBENV_BUILD_ROOT after installation
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<ruboto>
bb010g, we in #ruby do not like irccloud.com, it has no syntax highlighting, distracting formatting and loads slowly for most. Please use https://gist.github.com
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<bb010g>
:(
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<havenwood>
bb010g: Just uninstall the rdoc-data gem.
<havenwood>
bb010g: I didn't realize it was just for old rubies.
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<havenwood>
bb010g: gem rdoc --all --ri
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<shevy>
there is no real other explanation; perhaps you forgot to update the gem, or you may have multiple different paths for gems, but if that file exists, and is part of the gem, and you installed it through gem install, it will be there, I can assure you that
<shevy>
have a look whether the base .rb file pulls in that file
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<shevy>
btw I think putting requires into a module won't matter
<shevy>
what I usually do is, in that base .rb file; add require 'name_of_gem_goes_here/version/version.rb' # I have that in a separate version directory, I Lvoe directories
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<havenwood>
izzol: Add all the files you require to that list. Typically folk use code to generate those files but you can add them manually if you prefer. Can't omit them though.
<shevy>
Any good ruby-podcasts or videos out there lately in the last 2 years?
<shevy>
finnnnnnnnnnn in a gem-structured project, you do not need require_relative()
<shevy>
they added this method when they got rid of ./ by default
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<finnnnnnnnnnn>
shevy: ok thanks. I’ll try to avoid
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<finnnnnnnnnnn>
I’m making a sinatra app, but it would be nice to tuen it into a gem
<finnnnnnnnnnn>
*turn
<finnnnnnnnnnn>
so I’ll use a gem structure for that class
<finnnnnnnnnnn>
thanks again
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<shevy>
I used a workaround; I symlinked my main-ruby directory into SITE_DIR, as name "x"... so I do: require 'x/tools/image_optimizer.rb' and then invoke it ImageOptimizer.optimize('bla.png'); but once you have a project, you don't even need to do this either, just do: require 'name_of_project_here'
<shevy>
and it's shorter to write require than require_relative too \o/
<shevy>
yeah turn things into a gem-structure, it's a bit more to setup initially but much easier in the long run
<havenwood>
izzol: Sublime Text > Preferences > Settings - Default: "tab_size": 4 and "translate_tabs_to_spaces": true
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<havenwood>
izzol: 2 I mean >.>
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<shevy>
aha slip-up!
<shevy>
he is a 4er rather than a 2er by heart
<havenwood>
shevy: Noooo. Untrue! I don't use Sublime, had a clean install and it was the default value. I copy pasted!
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<havenwood>
shevy: Changed the false to true but forgot the 4 to 2. These crazy defaults. :P
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<havenwood>
shevy: Atom is coming along nicely it seems.
<shevy>
cool
<izzol>
havenwood: thanks :-)
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<shevy>
k, still some way off to it ... boost-1.56.0.tar.xz 86M
<havenwood>
ebonics: 1.0s of interest to Rubyists left and right
<ebonics>
Elixir v1.0 released
<ebonics>
September 18, 2014
<ebonics>
o.o
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<havenwood>
ebonics: Well, months apart but some great langs getting stable.
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<ebonics>
ic
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<Jarsue>
What does, if @var mean in Ruby, where @var is a global var. Is it a way to check if the variable is initialized?
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<yxhuvud>
@var is not a global var. it is *always* an instance variable to the current self.
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<jhass>
if expression passed is if expression returns a truthy value, that is any value besides false and nil
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<jhass>
instance vars, if not set to anything prior, default to nil
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<jhass>
eh, "passes if"
<Jarsue>
yxhuvud, I meant $var..
<Jarsue>
sry
<jhass>
don't use globals :(
<Jarsue>
jhass, I dont get what you mean.
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<Jarsue>
With the above.
<Jarsue>
If
<Jarsue>
jhass, That's a bad thing to say. Say rather avoid them as much as possible.
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<jhass>
>> if nil; puts "nil is truthy"; end; if false; puts "false is truthy"; end; if Object.new; puts "everything else is truthy"; end;
<ruboto>
jhass # => everything else is truthy ...check link for more (https://eval.in/364934)
<yxhuvud>
defined?($var) should work (though I agree with jhass - avoid them if possible)
<jhass>
defined? is a second smell ontop
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<jhass>
Jarsue: I yet have to run across a usecase where there wasn't a better solution (like a pseudo global as last resort)
<jhass>
simply don't use them
<Jarsue>
jhass, I'm not asking for an if lesson, I'm a C guru after all. I'm just asking how the if some_var works in Ruby.
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<Jarsue>
Since 0 is not false.
<jhass>
my example just demonstrated that
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<Jarsue>
jhass, Simply don't use them is stupid to say. We have been using globals for a lot of work.
<jhass>
nil and false are considered falsey, everything else is truthy
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<jhass>
and that you've been using them just asserts that they work, not that they're the optimal or only solution
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<Jarsue>
jhass, Yes, there were the only solutions when I used them.
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<jhass>
I'm interested to learn about that case then, as said I yet have to run across one
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<jhass>
(in Ruby)
<Jarsue>
So, actually when I do if some_var, I only check it against nil and false? I see. @first_name = '' unless @first_name will set @first_name unless it's already initialized with a value other than false/nil right?
<jhass>
right
<jhass>
better way to write that: @first_name ||= ''
<Jarsue>
And it's preferred to write, @first_name ||= ''?
<Jarsue>
Yea :p
<jhass>
which is a shortuct to @first_name || @first_name = ''
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<jhass>
(not @first_name = @first_name || '')
<c_nick>
how to enhance the system path through code?
<Jarsue>
The || are blocks, or?
<jhass>
c_nick: "system path"?
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<jhass>
Jarsue: no, it's the or operator
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<Jarsue>
Oh..
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<jhass>
blocks are delimited by { } or do end
<Jarsue>
jhass, Ah now I see :)
<c_nick>
jhass: yes, i get the path using ENV['path'] but i dont know how to update it?
<Jarsue>
jhass, Now I fully get the @first_name ||= ''
<jhass>
c_nick: ENV['PATH'] you mean? and update it for who?
<Jarsue>
So in English, is @first_name? or should I initialize it?
<c_nick>
current user
<jhass>
c_nick: it's an environment variable, you can't update the environment of a parent process
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<yxhuvud>
actually there is some additional magic involved in ||= that makes it work even if it is not defined. doesn't matter for globals or ivars, but matters for constants.
<Jarsue>
So Ruby is more into unless/until/or instead of if/while
<jhass>
yxhuvud: actually no, a variable is defined the moment the parser sees var = expression
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<ruboto>
yxhuvud # => uninitialized constant FOO (NameError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/364966)
<Jarsue>
jhass, You mean initialized I guess? Variables are defined upon declaration ?
<c_nick>
I am using a library which relies on the Environment Path to tell it where the dependency lies (another dll) so would a $LOAD_PATH variable assist here?
<Jarsue>
jhass, Or is there no declaration thing in Ruby?
<yxhuvud>
jass: and constants are different in your case as well:
<jhass>
c_nick: $LOAD_PATH is a Ruby global which defines the directories to search for require (and load) calls
<yxhuvud>
>> FOO = 1 if false; FOO
<ruboto>
yxhuvud # => uninitialized constant FOO (NameError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/364967)
<apeiros>
Jarsue: no, there's no declaration in ruby. only assignment.
<jhass>
oh, then it special cases constants, TIL
<Jarsue>
apeiros, Assignment implies declaration.
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<apeiros>
Jarsue: no
<apeiros>
Jarsue: define "declaration"
<Jarsue>
apeiros, Huh? Of course it does.
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<apeiros>
Jarsue: no. it does not. you don't have to declare the variables before you can assign to them. no declaration.
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<yxhuvud>
jhass: also, the ||= expansion you pointed to does not work for variables that isn't autovivified, even if ||= do work:
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<yxhuvud>
>> foo || foo = 2
<ruboto>
yxhuvud # => undefined local variable or method `foo' for main:Object (NameError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/364968)
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<apeiros>
Jarsue: but again, define "declaration". maybe you have an understanding of that term which deviates from what I know.
<jhass>
eh, I was sure that used to work
<jhass>
19>> foo || foo = 2
<ruboto>
jhass # => undefined local variable or method `foo' for main:Object (NameError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/364969)
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<jhass>
meh, phantom memory I guess
<c_nick>
jhass: a LoadLibrary to load the win32 dll ?
<Jarsue>
apeiros, I have the definition of declaration as every computer scientist have. There is one declaration only.
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<c_nick>
win32API.LoadLibrary
<jhass>
c_nick: windows territory? I bail
<Jarsue>
apeiros, I'm pretty good when it comes to low level stuff and been developing in C over 14 years. Ruby is in C. Assignment always implies declaration and definition.
<apeiros>
Jarsue: ok. then you're wrong, as per facts. there's no declaration in ruby. assignment is not a declaration.
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<Jarsue>
apeiros, Tho not directly in Ruby maybe.
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<apeiros>
Jarsue: there's no "not directly". there's no declaration, period.
<Jarsue>
In Ruby world I would say. But declaration is happening.
<c_nick>
Jarsue: Assignment is not always declaration
<c_nick>
int c; //declaration
<c_nick>
c = 1; //definition/assignment
<c_nick>
int c = 1; //declaration and definition
<Jarsue>
c_nick, int c; //declaration and definition
<c_nick>
defined to garbage ?
<Jarsue>
c = 1; //This is not a definition, this is assignment
<yxhuvud>
apeiros: of variables. I'd count 'class Foo .. end; and def foo; .. end; as declarations.
<Jarsue>
c_nick, intermediate value
<apeiros>
yxhuvud: def foo does not deal with any variable. unless you're talking about its parameters.
<apeiros>
class Foo - ok. you can consider it to be plain assignment too. one of 4 available syntaxes (or 3 if you consider module & class as equivalent syntax)
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<Jarsue>
c_nick, indeterminate|
<Jarsue>
*
<c_nick>
jhass: you cannot update the environment of the parent process meaning ? my ruby code will be a process so wheres the parent process here?
<jhass>
c_nick: well I asked who you want to change it for and you said "the user2
<jhass>
I guess "the user" == the one who invokes your program
<jhass>
== the parent process
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<Jarsue>
apeiros, "Variables are declared and assigned values by placing the variable name and the value either side of the assignment operator (=)."
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<apeiros>
Jarsue: anyway, you asked "Or is there no declaration thing in Ruby?", you got the answer, which is "no".
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<apeiros>
Jarsue: if you don't want to believe the answer - why do you ask in the first place?
<yxhuvud>
apeiros: def is still a declaration, just not of a variable.
<Jarsue>
apeiros, Because you are wrong.
<Jarsue>
You simply don't understand the machine.
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<ebonics>
ithink "attr_accessor" is a declaration in ruby
<apeiros>
Jarsue: and you don't understand language. but good to know that answering your questions is pointless.
<ebonics>
Jarsue, yeah we're not talking about C or what happens internally. most people here know C , you're not special
<Jarsue>
apeiros, I don't understand language? I'm developing embedded systems.
<jhass>
Jarsue: apeiros both of you, you have very apparently different definitions of declaration, for god's sake state yours. Both
<ebonics>
we're talking about ruby.. the high level language and its features and characteristics
<apeiros>
Jarsue: developing embedded systems does not help you with using proper terminology.
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<Jarsue>
ebonics, Most people think they do.
<apeiros>
Jarsue: anyway, I'm not interested in pursuing this "discussion". I suggest that in future, if you think you already know the answer, you don't ask.
<yxhuvud>
jarsue: the *machine* doesn't have declarations. C does, but that is really only instructions to instruct the compiler.
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<ebonics>
Jarsue, how can you "think" you know C?
<Jarsue>
yxhuvud, What? First I said understanding the machine and I'm pretty aware who does the declaration.
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<apeiros>
Jarsue: also "I have been developing in C over 14 years" is not an argument.
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<ebonics>
plus 14 years is nothing haha
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<Jarsue>
ebonics, Because I have been a professional developer in C for 14 years, studying it for ~ 20.
<ebonics>
yeah and what do you know about C that i don't?
<ebonics>
i'm 23
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<shevy>
you could have started at age 3
<ytti>
this may not be heading in conductive direction
<ebonics>
i started at age 12
<apeiros>
I think it's of no value to pursue this
<Jarsue>
ebonics, I'm 33 :)
<shevy>
you are approaching the 40s
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<Jarsue>
ebonics, So, you want to go there?
<ebonics>
surprising that you're 33. that's pretty young to be pulling the "ive been developng for" argument
<shevy>
33 is not young man!
<shevy>
23 is still :-)
<ebonics>
usually it's the 50+ FLOSS community who use that argument
<yxhuvud>
shevy, shut up.
<shevy>
50+ is the fossil era
* yxhuvud
older
<toretore>
your definition of young changes as you get older ;)
<Jarsue>
ebonics, No? It doesn't matter as long as you been working.
<shevy>
I think we don't have many +50 here
<shevy>
matz
<c_nick>
jhass: hmm so even if i get the environment variable set the code will be indifferent towards it
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<ebonics>
Jarsue, not everyone learns at the same rate
<shevy>
wait... he isn't yet 50
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* apeiros
sobds
<shevy>
damn he is
<apeiros>
*sobs
<Jarsue>
ebonics, I will just say that, many people think they know C, and that's same for Ruby, Python etc. Which is not true.
<shevy>
:(
<jhass>
c_nick: I still have no actual clue to what you're doing, so maybe
<Jarsue>
ebonics, I did raw read 2 standards. Took a lot of time.
<apeiros>
the point is that authority doesn't make an argument.
* shevy
waits for a kick-ban ...
<apeiros>
shevy: as long as nobody insults anybody, that won't happen.
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<ebonics>
right and because you're 33 and read some "standards" you're more qualified than i am to make assertions?
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<shevy>
ohhh... a battle of old versus young :)
<ebonics>
you're just dumb to be honest
<shevy>
was that an insult ;P
<apeiros>
ebonics: um, that's exactly the kind of thing which leads to a kick. please don't.
* Nilium
sighs and wanders off to get a burrito.
<toretore>
strike 1
<Jarsue>
ebonics, What does this mean. double(*(*ptr)())[10]; ?
<keyofnight>
lol... what is going on here?
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<apeiros>
keyofnight: kindergarten.
<shevy>
it means that there is a lot of syntax there
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<apeiros>
Jarsue, ebonics: stop. both of you.
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<Jarsue>
ebonics, And that one is very fundamental.
<Nilium>
Jarsue: Calling a double **(**)() and dereferencing the result and then getting the tenth thingy or something?
<Nilium>
Well, 11th, I guess.
<Jarsue>
Nilium, This is a pointer declaration.
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<toretore>
ebonics: might as well give up, jarsue's c dick is clearly bigger than yours
<jhass>
toretore: strike 1 for you
<Nilium>
Jarsue: I just see an expression from calling a function pointer pointer that returns a double pointer pointer.
<Jarsue>
Nilium, Return type is a pointer to an array.
* apeiros
checks channel name…
<Nilium>
Yeah, double** / double pointer pointer.
<apeiros>
um, nope, not ##c
<c_nick>
jhass: ok so i have a ruby framework that downloads a bunch of dlls which are written in C++ and then run some tests on it. Now the code in the binary is crashing because it does not know where its dependent dll is (actually in the same folder as the calling dll) This it only comes to know from the Environment PATH. So I need to make ammendments to system PATH
<Jarsue>
Nilium, Not same thing.
<Nilium>
Bah.
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<Nilium>
Evaluating weird C in my head is not working.
<c_nick>
Nilium: thats a pointer to a pointer to a double
<toretore>
jhass: it's only an insult as long as you think bigger is better :P
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<Nilium>
Because of how subscripts work in C, I just auto-associate arrays and T*.
<Jarsue>
c_nick, No.
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<jhass>
c_nick: ENV['PATH'] += ":#{path}" doesn't work? and $PATH is the library path on windows?
<Nilium>
Either way, I need a burrito.
<c_nick>
Jarsue: Double ** is a pointer to a pointer to a double
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<Jarsue>
double ** is a double pointer to a double pointer :)
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<c_nick>
jhass: when u do $PATH in the terminal u will get the system path
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<jhass>
"the system path" means nothing to me
<jhass>
I've never done any programming on windows. At all.
<jhass>
or even remotely more complex sysadmin stuff
<shevy>
windows was too much for you to handle
<jhass>
exactly
<c_nick>
jhass: its PATH on Linux
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<c_nick>
pretty much the same thing
<jhass>
$PATH is the shell (binary) lookup path on linux
<c_nick>
correct same on windows
<jhass>
the dynamic library lookup path is defined by LD_LIBRARY_PATH and /etc/ld.conf (or something)
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<c_nick>
by adding to the normal shell lookup path will do too
<c_nick>
let me try
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<Jarsue>
jhass, @first_name = @first_name || '', should visualize the (@first_name = @first_name) as, "Do the following if true" ?
<c_nick>
jhass: it works temporarily
<adaedra>
Jarsue: @first_name ||= ''
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<jhass>
Jarsue: as yxhuvud pointed out some details are missing, but @first_name || @first_name = '' is still closer to what's happening
<jhass>
Jarsue: it matters because in a.b ||= c, a.b = c is a method call
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<jhass>
so if it expanded to a.b = a.b || c, it would always execute that method call, which could cause unintended side effects
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<apeiros>
to be precise, there's 2 method calls in it. `a.b=` and `a.b`. and it'd always execute `a.b=` if it expanded to `a.b = a.b || c`
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<Jarsue>
jhass, Ah I see. But this is also a shorter way, at the same time, do x while checking if y?
<Jarsue>
shorter way to do*
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<jhass>
not sure I follow your question, but I think the answer is no
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<jhass>
it really helps to think of it as a || a = c, keeping the short-circuiting behavior of || and the truthiness and falisness rules in mind
<Jarsue>
jhass, Yea. I meant that there is an implicit if somewhere.
<jhass>
not really
<Jarsue>
So you cut it down to, a ||= c, yes?
<jhass>
what's "it" now?
<Jarsue>
What you said above.
<shevy>
What jhass said 10 years ago!!!
<jhass>
then again I don't follow your question
<jhass>
shevy: I think it was "I need a computer"
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<shevy>
You think a computer could parse Jarsue's question properly
<Jarsue>
jhass, "If @first_name happened to start out as
<Jarsue>
false , the code would cheerfully go ahead and reset it to the empty string." That means that there must be an if checking if @first_name is false/true.
<shevy>
I also don't quite understand what he meant to say ;)
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<jhass>
shevy: nah, natural language processing is still hard
<jhass>
Jarsue: no, that doesn't imply
<jhass>
the short-circuiting behavior of || suffices
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<Mon_Ouie>
Well, you may consider that all shortcircuiting logical operators are "implicit ifs"
<Mon_Ouie>
'a || b' being basically 'if a then a else b end'
<hectortrope>
where can I learn about api management can someone help
<hectortrope>
a-z of api's
<Jarsue>
jhass, So you are saying that, ?: has no implicit if. There must be some sort of implicit if for such evaluation.
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<jhass>
Jarsue: you're stuck in mapping language constructs into other language constructs (of a different language) you know. Try to get rid of that, it'll be very harmful for learning further languages and adopting their idioms
<jhass>
that you can find equivalent code for most constructs doesn't mean it's the same thing
<ebonics>
logically it's the same thing
<jhass>
ebonics: careful, ! is a method call
<apeiros>
ebonics: should use `unless a`. sadly `if !a` is no longer equivalent to `unless a`.
<ebonics>
orly?
<jhass>
yeah
<jhass>
>> class TrueClass; def !; true; end; !!!true
<ruboto>
jhass # => /tmp/execpad-9d71295014ac/source-9d71295014ac:7: syntax error, unexpected end-of-input, expecting ke ...check link for more (https://eval.in/365067)
<apeiros>
and jhass just told the reason :)
<jhass>
>> class TrueClass; def !; true; end; end; !!!true
<Jarsue>
jhass, So you are saying that, @first_name = '' unless @first_name is not same as @first_name ||= '' ?
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<apeiros>
I'm actually not sure whether I wish for unless to call !
<jhass>
Jarsue: it's equivalent (= same result, same effect), it's not the same and it doesn't help to think of one as the transformation into the other
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<Jarsue>
jhass, That's what the book Eloquent Ruby says to do :)
<Jarsue>
"The trouble with this if statement is that it is just slightly more verbose than it needs
<Jarsue>
to be. A more concise—and idiomatic—way to say the same thing is:"
<jhass>
I see how you can imply that, though if you're pedantic it doesn't say that
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<jhass>
either way, I happen to disagree obviously ;)
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<ebonics>
that is pretty pedantic to be honest but i see where youre coming from
<jhass>
especially with your background you'll happen to try to map to C constructs all to quickly otherwise
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<ebonics>
being able to redefine methods in ruby so dynamically can cause a lot of unforeseen consequences when using other peoples' code
<Jarsue>
jhass, The book clearly explains that all all equal, just that some are less verbose than others.
<jhass>
Jarsue: a book in the end is just the authors opinion
<ebonics>
apeiros, so basically those things are strictly equivalent
<apeiros>
Jarsue: terminology again. same != equivalent
<apeiros>
Jarsue: and jhass already confirmed that they're equivalent
<ebonics>
there is no way to alter the output without changing the statements themselves?
<jhass>
ebonics: yes
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<apeiros>
ebonics: yes, a ||= b is strictly equivalent to a = b unless a. no way to change that
<ebonics>
ok
<apeiros>
even for a.b ||= c
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<yxhuvud>
apeiros: except for things that doesn't autovivify like that, such as constants :)
<yxhuvud>
ah.. circles :)
<apeiros>
yxhuvud: right
<Jarsue>
apeiros, Are you from Greece?
<ebonics>
i find myself always wanting to use ruby now
<apeiros>
Jarsue: no
<jhass>
Jarsue: maybe to clarify a bit: I would consider it the same if the parser would actually do an AST transformation from one expression into the other. But I'm 98% certain that's not happening here
<ebonics>
im so bad at it though cause i refuse to read a book
<ebonics>
im just a cowboy
<Porfa>
(anyone in here happend to be bulgarian or cirilic speaking country? im cross asking this in freenode.. but a guest from bulgaria left a note at my house and i can’t understant shit…! )
<apeiros>
jhass: given the special casing yxhuvud named, you can be 100% sure.
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<jhass>
right
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<ebonics>
i wish there were more integrations with ruby
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<ebonics>
like i want to use ruby with php but it's not really feasible
<ebonics>
maybe ill write some type of middleware to make it easier
<apeiros>
ebonics: you can always interface over things like sockets
<yxhuvud>
hmm. I wonder how much break if ! is defined as def !; [true, false].sample; end
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<ebonics>
apeiros, thats what im doing currently
<ebonics>
but it's sorta shitty
<ebonics>
even if it's doing the same thing, it would be nice if there was some thin layer so i didnt have to do everything myself
<jhass>
yxhuvud: given a large enough program, 50% will break
<apeiros>
yxhuvud: do that for april fools at your job and tell us the results? :)
<apeiros>
though I guess you'd have to hide it in a bunch of commits
<apeiros>
otherwise it's quickly found
<shevy>
apeiros is not from greece but his evil twin brother, apieros is
<jhass>
I used to smuggle stuff into translation updates
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<shevy>
you were a real gangsta when you were young jhass
<shevy>
I was much more evil - I got rid of all but english
<apeiros>
shevy: if only I had only a twin brother. obviously we're octuplets…
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<Mon_Ouie>
Just tried it in Pry. Surprisingly I could still type and get syntax highlighting, after a couple of lines it randomly returned nil and exited.
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<apeiros>
"randomly"
<apeiros>
wasn't that the point? :D
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<yxhuvud>
irb get very confused as well
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<shevy>
you guys are trying to break ruby
<Mon_Ouie>
I'm mostly surprised that the syntax highlighting logic doesn't break
<apeiros>
that was actually one of the rare cases where monkey patching cost me a lot of time. when zenspider patched NilClass#method_missing to return nil.
<shevy>
hehe
<yxhuvud>
what the hell
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<apeiros>
that said, I still wish nobu's feature request for .? would have been accepted :-/
<shevy>
what is .? doing?
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<apeiros>
shevy: basically `a.?b` is `a.b unless a.nil?`
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<apeiros>
i.e. it returns nil if the receiver is nil and won't even call the method. otherwise it will call the method just like `.`
<apeiros>
common use cases are e.g. input = gets.?chomp
<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
the ? in the middle there actually looks weird to read
<apeiros>
I agree
<apeiros>
but it still looks nicer than all the boilerplate you need without it
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<jhass>
so basically Object#try
<apeiros>
jhass: almost. the huge difference is that it shortcuts
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<jhass>
apeiros: do you happen to have a link? might suggest it to Crystal
<apeiros>
jhass: uh, it's ancient. I doubt I'll find it again.
<apeiros>
I think that was even back in 1.8 times.
<shevy>
people suggest weird things
<shevy>
look at that part:
<shevy>
"For example, snippet foo!?1:2 is interpreted to call method foo! and ternary operation now"
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<apeiros>
jhass: nope, didn't find it
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<jhass>
thanks anyway
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<andywojo>
]/join ##brogrammers
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<jhass>
are you sure?
<apeiros>
*sob*, from https://rubyplus.com/articles/1981 ("Class Methods Demystified"): "The class methods live in a ghostclass, eigenclass or metaclass"
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<apeiros>
ruby has settled on singleton_class.
<jhass>
ghostclass is new to me :D
<jhass>
mh, is that a new article?
<adaedra>
« ghostclass »
<jhass>
doesn't seem to have a date on it
<adaedra>
booo, I'm a class, and I come to haunt you.
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<apeiros>
jhass: it was posted on ruby-flow today. but the article itself doesn't seem to have a date.
<apeiros>
"Copyright 2013-2015" implies it was written long after 1.9, though :)
<apeiros>
or in ruby's case, heisenclass. because it only starts to exist when needed :)
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<apeiros>
that's an *excellent* reason to stay online. also I commented (on ruby-flow, though, due to a lack of comment functionality on the article's site)
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<jhass>
mh, I should submit the google fight plugin to ruboto :P
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<apeiros>
do it :D
<apeiros>
also a lmgtfy
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<jhass>
!enable Google
<jhass>
ah, right
<apeiros>
will you add it to the todo or shall I?
<jhass>
!gf ghostclass vs singleton class
<DeBot>
singleton class destroys ghostclass! (1,790,000 to 30,800)
<jhass>
!gf eigenclass vs singleton class
<DeBot>
singleton class destroys eigenclass! (1,790,000 to 18,300)
<jhass>
!gf metaclass vs singleton class
<DeBot>
singleton class crushes metaclass! (1,790,000 to 386,000)
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<jhass>
that's all
<apeiros>
unfair, though, since "singleton class" will also contain singleton pattern
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<jhass>
we don't care
<jhass>
and you add it to the todo please ;P
<apeiros>
kk
<adaedra>
!gf class vs module
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<adaedra>
:'(
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<adaedra>
If it's like that, I'm gonna play hangman on the other channel, na!
<ruboto>
andywojo, we in #ruby do not like pastebin.com, it loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting. Please use https://gist.github.com
<apeiros>
andywojo: ok, so it's not all hex.
<adaedra>
yes, that's binary
<apeiros>
andywojo: so first step is: data = File.read(path, encoding: Encoding::BINARY)
<andywojo>
It's a heros of the storm replay file, I've been told it can be parsed via hex, but it is binary.
<andywojo>
ok
<apeiros>
as for the parsing - that depends a lot on how the data is structured. common tools: String#unpack, String#match and StringScanner