apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.2; 2.0.0-p481; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<justjealouse> Hanmac, so what is the difference between the devkit and ruby
<Hanmac> hm dont know, just think devkit is addional stuff
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<justjealouse> i think this devkit is to troubleshoot ruby itself haha
<shevy> well it does not matter whether you are on windows or linux
<shevy> though windows is notoriously harder
<shevy> locate where your gem environment is
<shevy> run on the commandline "gem env"
<shevy> go to the cache/ subdirectory
<shevy> on my linux system it is:
<shevy> cd /usr/lib/ruby/gems/2.1.0/cache/
<shevy> on your windows, it is probably c/ruby ... whatever something there
<shevy> or alternatively
<shevy> simply download the mechanize gem into a dir
<shevy> extract it
<shevy> etc...
<shevy> on this page you can find the direct link to it http://rubygems.org/gems/mechanize
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<justjealouse> Shevy, from what I understand it would be this dir, C:\Ruby200-x64\lib\ruby\gems\2.0.0\gems its very confusing lol
<shevy> no
<shevy> that is not the cache/ dir
<shevy> but I guess if you go one down
<shevy> then you can go to cache
<Nowaker> programming on windows isn't a good idea. :/ (except for dotnet)
<shevy> next step extract mechanize gem
<shevy> via "gem unpack NAME_HERE.gem"
<justjealouse> shevy okay so I shouldnt use gem install, I should dl the gem?
<shevy> look
<shevy> if you do "gem install name"
<shevy> you already downloaded the .gem
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<justjealouse> yes I did
<shevy> that is why I said to go to cache/ dir. but if that is too complicated, you can simply download the .gem again, it does not matter
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<shevy> the important part is to get the exact error why mechanize is failing
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<shevy> I assume you will miss some .h file or something else
<justjealouse> Shevy, ERROR: failed to build gem native extension, does that sound correct?
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<justjealouse> im getting distracted by these damn college kids
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<shevy> no that is still not correct
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<shevy> how did you reach that error
<justjealouse> ok shevy I appreciate your help, does this stuff go in an error log somewhere? so I can just copy paste it
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<shevy> on linux you can just select with the mouse, then paste that selection with middle mouse button
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<shevy> on default windows I think there is no easy way but that middle-mouse functionality can be obtained somehow
<shevy> it should get logged into mkmf.log
<shevy> but you did not tell what you did :>
<pontiki> backtracking: the devkit in rubyinstaller is so you can compile native extensions for gems
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<shevy> pontiki to the rescue \o/
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<justjealouse> shevy http://pastebin.com/MyG2XRUC can you check this
<justjealouse> cmd has a weird way of copying stuff
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<shevy> no worries man, one day you will come to linux too
<shevy> ok you did not do what I told you to do
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<shevy> :(
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<Hanmac> justjealouse: "checking for main() in -lstdc++... *** extconf.rb failed ***" means the C++ compiler is missing ... but i dont know how to fix that on windows
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<Nowaker> Hanmac: it's very easy to fix that on windows - install linux in virtualbox
<shevy> obviously you lack the stdc++ shared object
<shevy> I have that one here /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6
<justjealouse> haha this is frustrating
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<justjealouse> I have gcc and visual studio installed god damn
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<affsd> leave
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<justjealouse> affsd ?
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<Nowaker> justjealouse: and this will be frustrating. you'll be fixing one problem just to encounter the other. it's really not worth trying.
<Hanmac> what he means is "windows is not worth trying" ;P
<Nowaker> yeah
<Nowaker> :P
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<Hanmac> okay OSX might be problematic too, that you need third party stuff like macports or brew to have a decent package system ...
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<justjealouse> hmm yea i think im just gonna switch to linux tonight
<justjealouse> gentoo's for the real hackers right?
<centrx> gentoo's for the fake hackers who want to be real hackers
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<justjealouse> Im gonna dl gentto tonight boys
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<centrx> *bravo*
<justjealouse> getting back in that programming game this year
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<Nowaker> haha, 7 years ago I bought a server and wanted to install gentoo
<Nowaker> I failed
<Nowaker> but I intalled slackware hehe
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<lucianosousa> slackware <3
<Hanmac> as long as you dont try centos everything should be fine ;P
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<lucianosousa> I used for a long a basic install with fluxbox and xterm
<lucianosousa> :)
<arrubin> Arch is great these days.
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<centrx> Arch has the best wiki
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<lucianosousa> Hanmac: why? I’m using in all my servers nowadays. Looks like amazon linux is an custom centos too
<lucianosousa> a custom*
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<justjealouse> oh wow Hanmac you were right I just had to use devkit magic
<justjealouse> my ruby installation is now "enhanced" with the devkit whatver that means
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<justjealouse> im still gonna install linux later tho thats a good idea
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<yeboot> hi, I'm trying to find a quick way to take an array of hashes and create an array of values from those hashes, keeping the indexes the same
<yeboot> i figure there's something like select I can use to do so
<Wolland> gist example please
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<yeboot> Wolland: me?
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<Wolland> sure
<Wolland> gist what you have and what you want as a return value
<yeboot> I'm asking if there exists a easy way to make a function like f([{ :username => "larry", :member_since => "july" }, { :username => "pete", :member_since => "august" }]) returning ["larry", "pete"]
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<yeboot> like if that array was called foo then foo.<function> do |x| x[:username] end
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<Wolland> there is not a single function but you can do it with map or collect
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<centrx> yeboot, yes it is called map
<yeboot> thank you very much! :D
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<Wolland> yeboot: so something like this a.map{|x| x[:username]}
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<yeboot> Wolland yeah I figured it out, opened http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.2/Array.html#method-i-map as soon as you and centrix mentioned it
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<Wolland> or a.map(&:values) if you want all values
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<Wolland> cool
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<advorak> what is the "=> detail" in "rescue => detail" in http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.0/Exception.html ? I don't understand the => part ..
<advorak> where can I read about => ?
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<pontiki> try reading about the rescue statement
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<advorak> pontiki, is the "=>" syntax only acceptable for exceptions? Does it exist anywhere else in Ruby?
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<pontiki> => is the hash rocket. it's used extensively to create hashes
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<advorak> I'm still confused. I understand the "hashrocket"'s relevance in a hash: {'whatever' => 'abc'} ; but I don't understand what's going on with: begin; rescue => e; end ...
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<advorak> I understand it assigns to the variable 'e' a reference to the error being rescued ... but is there any usage for this => syntax outside of rescuing an exception?
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<Wolland> so it's a special syntax and can't be used anywhere else is what I am reading advorak
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<advorak> Wolland, thanks ... :-)
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<advorak> I was having trouble searching for "=>" -- I didn't know what to search for .. :-)
<Wolland> sure thing
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<KLVTZ> how does ruby handle the generation of an object_id for either an object or a symbol?
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<KLVTZ> Is it base on your current memory?
<KLVTZ> Just curious how internally this works...
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<Mon_Ouie> It's based on the address where the object was allocated
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<KLVTZ> Mon_Ouie: and is it the interpreter that handles that memory allocation?
<Mon_Ouie> Well, it's in Ruby's code, yes — that part of the code isn't really interpreting code though, it's more part of the runtime
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<KLVTZ> Okay that makes sense. I guess what I kinda wanted was a discreete workflow during runtime on how that id is generated. I guess there isn't a means of seeing that
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<KLVTZ> well you see the end result haha
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<boena> Hi. What is the best way to match two strings on probability of being the same? I will have input that differs just a little from each other, they do have similar patterns and words in them. Is there some algorithm that would fit for this?
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<boena> To clarify, we are not talking about search here
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<boena> So it's not misspelling I'm trying to fix.
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<Hanmac> boena: so you have "a very long string A" and "a very long string B" and you want to compare them with "==" but you think it might not fast enough?
<Hanmac> or do you somehow want to return the common part?
<boena> Hanmac: No, it's more that it could be: "a very long string A" and "B is a very long string"
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<boena> so it might not be in the same order
<boena> I need to match the probability of those two
<Hanmac> hm ok do you still want to compare them and maybe return the common part?
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<boena> Nah, more like getting a percentage of them matching. So that I can group them if they are let's say over 90% common
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<boena> rbrs: No, thanks. But I thought Levenshtein distance was used mostly for misspellings?
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<sevenseacat> it just gives you commonality of strings
<sevenseacat> which is kinda what youre after, no?
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<boena> I'm more looking for the percentage. But that text-gem had White similarity, which might be more of what I'm after.
<boena> But i need to test it on sentences and not single words
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<lxsameer> does any one know how can i destroy a Thor group?
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<wasamasa> use your hammer on it
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<pierombaabu> What is the equivalent of python's "raw_input" in ruby?
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<tobiasvl> what is "raw_input"?
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<tobiasvl> pierombaabu: just gets maybe? I don't know what raw_input does in Python, but googling it makes it seem like it's just a regular method that takes user input?
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<pierombaabu> Yea its a prompt for user input
<tobiasvl> gets
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<j416> pierombaabu: this might also be of interest http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.9.3/libdoc/readline/rdoc/Readline.html
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<pierombaabu> tobiasvl thanks!
<tobiasvl> j416: yep. python also has readline though, so I thought he just wanted the basic built-in equivalent
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<j416> seems gets does not print the prompt, though
<j416> easy to accomplish, but still
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<tobiasvl> true
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<pierombaabu> Wher does gets store the input?
<j416> pierombaabu: it returns i
<j416> t
<sevenseacat> into whatever you assign it to
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<pierombaabu> I want to prompt a user to input their names and email which is stored in an array and used to verify a login attempt. How do I do it?
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<pierombaabu> Somebody help
<jhass> what did you try so far?
<tobiasvl> pierombaabu: should be pretty easy. gets stores the input in its return value, just like raw_input() in python
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<tobiasvl> pierombaabu: so if you know how to do it in python, do it the same way in ruby, except you'll have to print the prompt before you use gets (instead of giving the prompt as an argument to raw_input() as in python)
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<pierombaabu> Thanks guys! Let me try it out.
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<Hanmac> if someone is interested ... my gemtree can now parse Gemfiles make by bundler (and add that info to the gemtree feature too) (it does only colorize them and does show the groups, platform and source location and git options are currently ignored)
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<balance> hi
<balance> From a very basic tutorial "Did you notice that the sort! method has a big, bright exclamation at the end? A lot of times Ruby methods shout like that if they change what the variable contains for good. It's nothin' special, just a mark." It is about sorting an array. Is the thing about the ! a joke?
<balance> Whats the name of this ! thing?
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<Hanmac> balance: half/half, it might be written as a joke, but it says something 1) "!" is part of the method name ... 2) if there is a "sort!" method, there is a "sort" method too
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<Hanmac> 3) they change the original object instead of returning a new one
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<Hanmac> 4) (not written in that line) NOTICE that some "bang" methods might return nil if nothing has changed, so chaining such methods might be a bad idea
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<balance> Hanma cok thanks, so like this? http://pastie.org/9535759
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<Hanmac> foo.sort! might return a sorted foo if foo got sorted ... if foo was already sorted, it does return nil ... thats why in the last line, bar might be nil
<sevenseacat> no semicolons in ruby :(
<Hanmac> balance: but that might be useful for other stuff too like:
<Hanmac> >> s = "UPCASE"; s.downcase! ? "CHANGED" : "NOT CHANGED"
<eval-in____> Hanmac => "CHANGED" (https://eval.in/189870)
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<Hanmac> >> s = "UPCASE"; s.upcase! ? "CHANGED" : "NOT CHANGED"
<eval-in____> Hanmac => "NOT CHANGED" (https://eval.in/189871)
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<balance> Hanmac ok, makes sense. sevenseacat sry, reallyy just started and It's just an automatism
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<balance> thanks
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<zenspider> anyone know the devise code?
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<olivier_bK> hy alll
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<Hanmac> oO what devise code?
<zenspider> THE devise code
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<Hanmac> i dont know about THE code ... but my gemtree graph can now parse Gemfile's from bundler ... (without using bundler)
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<zenspider> Hanmac: gemtree graph? what's it do?
<zenspider> I've got a tool, part of the graph gem, that shows a graph of all the gems you have installed and color codes them based on their up-to-datedness
<zenspider> but not one that can work on a random gemfile.
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<Hanmac> turns your installed gems (or a list of them) into a dot graph, with that you can make a image of the dependency of your gems ... like what gem does need which other gems, where is some version conflict, or like where is some required gem missing ... currently the only coloration is with loading a gem file and the gems specifyed in that gem file are colorised ...
<Hanmac> but that option with "color codes them based on their up-to-datedness" is also interesting
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<Hanmac> zenspider: a friend that has many gems installed did make that image with it. http://i.imgur.com/TUEqV5B.jpg
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<zenspider> hooooly shit
<zenspider> Hanmac: that's amazing
<zenspider> take a look at graph. I'd love to see if you can rewrite your tool using my lib. happy to take it in too.
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<Hanmac> yeah its many gems installed, but if you zoom you can see that some have different styles and colours ... like blue marks an unnecessary requirement (like A does require B and C, but B already does require C too, so A -> C might be unnecessary ... it also does show the version info in that case ... the code will be tweaked later), dashed nodes, have older versions of that gem installed which can be safety removed
<Hanmac> dotted nodes are default gems ... (currently no choice to detect bundled gems but i will try to fix that later),
<Hanmac> dashed connections means that A does require special version of B but newer version is installed (so the code of A might need to be updated)
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<Hanmac> other feature i will try to implement is the detection of outdated gems (like you can install newer version from source) ... but currently thats done later
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<zenspider> 1st one: I don't like the implication that A -> C should be removed. If a depends on C directly, it shouldn't ever imply the dependency via B.
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<zenspider> 2nd one: for this, you may want to look at rubygems-cleanroom to get rid of the bundled gems
<zenspider> it's a 3 liner iirc, feel free to steal, or just require the file and it'll do the rest
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<zenspider> that sounds neat. certainly more versatile than mine.
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<Hanmac> zenspider: have you your lib online for the different color codes ?
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<Hanmac> ah ok i wil look at the "blue", "purple4", "red" color codes there
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<zenspider> there's a PDF that ships with the gem which goes over a bunch of stuff you can do to make your graphs prettier. you might want to look at the color sets and stuff
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<Hanmac> ah interesting pdf, yeah i know most of the stuff about dot and the attributes, hm some things in the API might be changed to be more "ruby-like" but thats not a big problem ... but the current thing i was looking for what different colors does it show for the ruby_gems analyzer
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<zenspider> iirc, blue was a top level leaf node, red was out-of-date, and blue+red == purple
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<Hanmac> ah ok, hm i might not do it that way, hm i might add something that shows outdated ones, but "top-level-leaf-nodes" currently does not get different style
<puppeh> how can I convert back to a Time object something that I got from Time.now.to_i?
<puppeh> how can I convert back to a Time object something that I got from `Time.now.to_i`?
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<Hanmac> puppeh: Time.at() but its still not equal the old time object because of some missing nano/micro secs
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<puppeh> thanks
<Timmee> Time.at(Time.now.to_i)
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<zenspider> Hanmac: yeah. I was just tryng to point out the ones that were safe to delete at any time.
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<zenspider> ok. I isolated a bug is devise's tests. time for bed.
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<niklas123> Hi guys, what's your go to book for mastering ruby?
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<shevy> niklas123 writing scripts non-stop
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<shevy> the more the better
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<Hanmac> hm i think the next days i will write some script with Net::IMAP that does filter some of my emails ... like i have some emails named "Chapter {X} of {N}" and i want to delete all, except the newest one .. and i think its more easier with a ruby script than doing it manually
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<shevy> we have %w() for an array
<shevy> but do we have something like this for an ordered hash as well?
<shevy> key1 value1 key2 value2
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* Hanmac makes a "i dont think so "-face
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<cHarNe2> Hanmac: how does a mail objekt look? cant you do something like inbox.delete_if {|mail| ...} ?
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<Hanmac> cHarNe2: hm no but the samples says somehow with imap.store(message_id, "+FLAGS", [:Deleted])
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<shevy> omg now Hanmac got a dude on his level
<shevy> both typo like crazy
<shevy> :>
<shevy> gimme ma objekts
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<shevy> let's say we have an object
<shevy> w = World.new
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> is there any way to redirect normal method calls into that w object?
<shevy> like if one does
<shevy> foo()
<shevy> it should be defined on Object
<Nowaker> in any place of the code?
<Hanmac> shevy are you looking for instance_eval or instance_exec ?
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<shevy> Nowaker well
<shevy> it's ok to call some methods or setup this behaviour before
<shevy> Hanmac no, I think that would be easily possible or?
<shevy> I could just pass a block
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<shevy> w {
<shevy> bla_method_here
<shevy> }
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<shevy> I guess method_missing would be another way but I hate this method
<shevy> something like this would be nice:
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<shevy> Redirect.to w
<shevy> foo()
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<shevy> hmm
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<Nowaker> shevy: method missing on module Module is probably not the way to go as you will only redirect those calls that are not defined there
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<Nowaker> generally, what you are trying to do is not very clean
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<Nowaker> youd need to do it with a block, theb youre fine
<Nowaker> then
<shevy> I find it super clean
<Nowaker> eventually, you could iterate over all methods of this class
<Nowaker> and define a wrapper method
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<shevy> hmm
<Nowaker> this way you would overwrite all Module methods and effectively everything supported by your class would go to your class
<Nowaker> ...but still, block is the way to go. clean approach.
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<shevy> so you are saying that it would be possible
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<Guest90805> Hello !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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<Guest90805> Hello !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<toretore> HELLO!!!!!
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<mozzarella> >> ['Hello', '!' * 100].join
<eval-in____> mozzarella => "Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (https://eval.in/189970)
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<maasha> What does this error mean: pthread_mutex_destroy: Device or resource busy (EBUSY) ?
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<maasha> (results in ruby crash)
<Hanmac> maasha: huch what are you trying to do? ruby itself or third party software?
<maasha> Hanmac: stack trace points to narray extension
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<Hanmac> hm that narray, hm is that part of stdlib ?
<maasha> Hanmac: something about mulithreaded run of forked stuff -> kapow ...
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<maasha> Hanmac: narray is a gem - Ruby's version of Numpy
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<Hanmac> hm i never used narray before i think, thats why i was wondering ...
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<maasha> Hanmac: narray is really nice.
<zmartAzz> The best way to output tables from MS SQL Server is?
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<Hanmac> switching to a better and more opensource sql server?
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<zmartAzz> I agree, but my teacher is bugging me with the MS SQL Server and I'm getting so frustrated :P
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<shevy> omg
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<banisterfiend> anyone here from holland?
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<Hanmac> banisterfiend: hey if you are interested, my gemtree https://gist.github.com/Hanmac/cb9e13ff220e4f31e13a can now parse Gemfile make by bundler ;P
<banisterfiend> Hanmac nice
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<banisterfiend> Hanmac release it as a gem
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<Hanmac> hm maybe i will do it if i added more options and document it wore in connection with its sister scripts
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<Hanmac> the latest funny part, i use instance_eval to parse the Gemfile ;P
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<Macaveli> Oh man tons of troubles with upgrading openssl
<Macaveli> (
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<gaussblurinc1> hi!
<gaussblurinc1> where is bundle exe placed?
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<waxjar> gaussblurinc1: try which bundle
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<gaussblurinc1> waxjar: thanks!
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> is there any convention for .rb files what to require when
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<Hanmac> shevy http://xkcd.com/1416/ << ;P
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<gaussblurinc1> how to run script via bundle exec with specific rvm gemset?
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<gaussblurinc1> I store gemset in .ruby-gemset file and ruby version in .ruby-version
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<gaussblurinc1> but when I try to move to directory via chdir, it does not load gemset :\
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<waxjar> i dunno, i use gs for gemsets
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<adac> How can I get an url (google.com without http) with mechanize ?
<adac> since it says to me "absolute URL needed (not google.com)"
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<pagios> File.readlines[5,5] to read line 5 ?
<pagios> test_lines[-8..-1]
<pagios> \this read from -1 to -8 what if i want to read line 7 only
<tobiasvl> [7]
<pagios> givign an argument error
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<pagios> too few args
<tobiasvl> what is test_lines?
<pagios> test_lines = File.readlines('blah.txt']
<pagios> )*
<tobiasvl> uuuh
<tobiasvl> http://gist.github.com your code
<pagios> test_lines = File.readlines('/etc/host.conf') test_lines[5] = "channel=#{channel}"
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<tobiasvl> and the latter gives you ArgumentError?
<pagios> yea
<tobiasvl> gist your code and the error
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<tobiasvl> pagios: gist your code and the error
<pagios> 1 sec plz
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<slipperypete_> ola
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<slipperypete_> stuck on creating an upstart script for a bundle app. anyone able to help?
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<pagios> tobiasvl: ok it was a typo.. it works now
<pagios> but if i write on line4 everything after line4 is flushed
<pagios> i jsut want to modify 1 line
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<tobiasvl> flushed?
<tobiasvl> again, show us your code
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<pagios> k
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<pagios> tobiasvl: http://pastie.org/9536396
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<tobiasvl> does that code run? apart from the fact that it doesn't do what you want
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<pagios> yea
<tobiasvl> oh yeah, that's IO::write
<tobiasvl> I understand
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<pagios> so i am writing correctly to the file but clearing everything after that line
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<Cork> i'm looking for a command to make a host look up that does a combination of Resolv::Hosts and Resolv::dns (use dns if not in host file)
<Cork> anyone know if there is a way to do this except chaining those two callbacks?
<tobiasvl> pagios: works fine here, except that there's no newline at the end of line 4
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<pagios> line 5 is not cleared?
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<tobiasvl> no, but it is tacked onto the end of line 4 because of missing newline in line 4
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<gaussblurinc1> oh, I completely don't understand how to change rvm version under scripts
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<gaussblurinc1> over ssh
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<pagios> it does remove everything after line4 here
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<gaussblurinc1> how to change gemset over ssh in script?
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<gaussblurinc1> I need to launch agent that will launch bundle exec ruby for script, but it doesn't work in case of rvm incorrect gemset
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<hfp_work> Hey all, if I'd like to have the #blank? method in Ruby (not Rails), would this implement it successfully? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/e8ba88da4aa777b4d16a
<Cork> gaussblurinc1: you should be able to run rvm gemset use
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<gaussblurinc1> Cork: RVM is not a function, selecting rubies with 'rvm use ...' will not work.
<Cork> gaussblurinc1: if you run commands in a bash environment it is a bash function
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<gaussblurinc1> Cork: as far as I know.. http://pastebin.com/hm9FJZ8D but how to fix this issue?
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<Cork> gaussblurinc1: source /etc/profile.d/rvm.sh should give you the rvm environment
<Cork> and after that you should be able to run run rvm gemset use
<Cork> *to just run
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<hfp_work> Hanmac: Thanks
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<waxjar> looks like they overwrite empty somewhere though, because " ".empty? won't return true
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<waxjar> ah they overwrite blank?
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<gaussblurinc1> Cork: I don't have /etc/profile.d directory (mac os x)
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<Cork> ah
<Cork> hmm, not sure how it works in mac
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<hfp_work> Hmmm, I'm trying to include the module `BlankMethod` that I wrote within `lib/replikator/includes/blank.rb`. I am getting a LoadError with this code: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ec8ea7f4a15fbce3bec0. What am I missing?
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<hfp_work> Actually I lied, I copy pasted the module from Rails
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<hfp_work> didn't write it :)
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<Hanmac> if you require "lib/replikator/includes" it does not automaticly require "lib/replikator/includes/blank.rb" for you
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<gaussblurinc1> hfp_work: and why you don't want to update gemfile with active support?
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<sdegutis> Wow, installing RVM is quite a bit more difficult these days.
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<bhaak> sdegutis: what? why?
<sdegutis> Just a lot more files I have to cleanup and move around when I install it.
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<sdegutis> I had to delete .bashrc, .zshrc, move one line from .bash_profile to .profile, then delete .bash_profile
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<bhaak> oh, I see.
<sdegutis> And I can't easily figure out the list of available Ruby versions at the command line.
<bhaak> rvm list
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<sdegutis> Also a few days ago when I tried `rvm install 2.1.2` it was trying to install openssl to /etc/openssl and required a password -- I quickly ^C'd that.
<sdegutis> Oh, it still does that.
<sdegutis> Dangit.
<sdegutis> password required for 'mkdir -p /etc/openssl':
<sdegutis> wth
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<bhaak> that's a convenience feature of rvm. it tries to install missing dependencies for you.
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<bhaak> rvm install --autolibs=0 will disable it
<sdegutis> :/
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<sdegutis> Thanks.
<sdegutis> It works now.
<bhaak> it has to do such things, otherwise how could you justify 20k lines of shell code? ;-)
<sdegutis> Although I'm pretty sketchy about both RVM and rbenv to be honest.
<waxjar> chruby is great
<sdegutis> I'm considering using chruby.
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<sdegutis> Although I do miss gemsets as a way of avoiding writing or aliasing "bundle exec" all the time.
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<bhaak> I'm still using rvm because it just works[tm], even though I don't use most of its functions.
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<sdegutis> I ran away to rbenv a few years ago because overriding 'cd' felt wrong.
<sdegutis> But rbenv's shims also feel wrong.
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<sdegutis> chruby seems much cleaner, but I'm worried it'll be much harder to install Ruby.
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<sdegutis> pipework: which tool do you use to install Rubies again?
<waxjar> there's ruby-install, which works great with chruby
<awkwords> whats a site where you can code collab with others?
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<sdegutis> ruby-build or ruby-install?
<awkwords> like a web interface?
<sdegutis> Ah.
<waxjar> chruby looks for rubies in the directory it ruby-install installs to by default :)
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<waxjar> *minus it
<hfp_work> gaussblurinc1: Well I'm a bit confused. You see this script lives in a Rails app under lib/. The app can have amy fronteds and so this script's purpose is to "create" a new frontend by copy pasting and editing some files with the relevant parameters and then paste them inside the app's views. And so I'm getting confused whether it can have it's own Gemfile etc
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<sdegutis> waxjar: the ruby-install readme doesn't say what dir that is :/
<waxjar> ~/.rubies
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<sdegutis> Ah.
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<waxjar> (it's in the Features section)
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<sdegutis> aww, ruby-install doesn't have 2.1.2
<sdegutis> Oh wait yes it does.
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<mdorman> does ruby have a construct like: flavor, key = resource[:name].split(/:/, 2)
<sdegutis> mdorman: *
<sdegutis> I mean, I think it's *
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<mdorman> or must that always assign to an array and then i get the values via array indices?
<sdegutis> mdorman: a, b, c = *d
<centrx> * not needed for that asignment
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<Hanmac> mdorman: if you have /:/ as split you can use ':' for that and dont need an regexp
<sdegutis> oh
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<mdorman> so flavor, key = resource[:name].split(‘:’, 2) ought ot work?
<mdorman> .. on 1.8.7?
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<centrx> flavor, key = "hi:bye".split(‘:’, 2) ought ot work?
<centrx> >> flavor, key = "hi:bye".split(‘:’, 2) ought ot work?
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<centrx> bot is out to lunch
<Hanmac> hm the bot should be there ...
<Hanmac> >> "bot test"
<eval-in____> Hanmac => "bot test" (https://eval.in/190132)
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<waxjar> centrx: the single quotes are the issue i think
<centrx> >> flavor, key = "hi:bye".split(':', 2)
<eval-in____> centrx => ["hi", "bye"] (https://eval.in/190133)
<centrx> >> flavor, key = "hi:bye".split(':', 2); "#{flavor}--#{key}"
<eval-in____> centrx => "hi--bye" (https://eval.in/190134)
<waxjar> i mean, they weren't proper single quotes, but the titled ones
<waxjar> apostrophe and the other one
<centrx> those quotes aren't so smart!
<Hanmac> centrx: OSX user?
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<centrx> I just copied and paste what he wrote, even forgot to delete "ought ot work?"
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<Hanmac> ah then maybe the other one is an osx user ...
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<sdegutis> How many people in here are using 1.8.7?
<Hanmac> mdorman: the bot also has 1.8.7 running:
<Hanmac> 18>> flavor, key = "hi:bye".split(':', 2)
<eval-in____> Hanmac => ["hi", "bye"] (https://eval.in/190135)
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<centrx> >> RUBY_VERSION
<eval-in____> centrx => "2.1.2" (https://eval.in/190136)
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<mdorman> specifically i’m on 1.8.7, and this is for a Puppet custom provider. i end up with: Error: Could not autoload puppet/provider/nova_flavor_extraspec/nova_manage: /etc/puppet/environments/flavormgmt/modules/nova/lib/puppet/provider/nova_flavor_extraspec/nova_manage.rb:43: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting ')'
<centrx> sdegutis, 1.8.7 is very old, unsupported, and lacks a lot of new features and performance optimizations
<mdorman> will keep looking at it. just wanted to confim that array construct was even valid
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<centrx> >> a, b = [1, 2]
<eval-in____> centrx => [1, 2] (https://eval.in/190137)
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<centrx> silly bot
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<centrx> use your AI to do what I want
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<Hanmac> sdegutis: the problem is centos because its still running on StoneCircles ... so it does need an outdated and unsupported ruby version ...
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<pierombaabu> How do i send data from a form to the database?
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<centrx> pierombaabu, Are you using any frameworks or libraries?
<pierombaabu> No frameworks
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<centrx> pierombaabu, What happens when the form is submitted? Is there code to handle that?
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<pierombaabu> That is the code i want. The one handling the data
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<centrx> pierombaabu, Okay, two options are Rails and Sinatra
<centrx> pierombaabu, Sinatra is a lightweight web framework for handling HTTP requests
<pierombaabu> So it's not possible without any framework?
<centrx> pierombaabu, Rails comes with a lot of additional features that you may want
<centrx> pierombaabu, You can write your own HTTP request handler
<alex88> anyone here ever encountered EAGAIN fork(2) failed errors using sidekiq on heroku?
<pierombaabu> @centrix thanks
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<alex88> I've got that running phanotmjs from a sidekiq job
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<treehug88> Hi everyone, I'm leaning ruby and am working on a sinatra app I'm running under unicorn. I'm having trouble getting my app to log accesses and errors in a way similar to apache or ngingx. I've uploaded a small sample sinatra/unicorn app here: https://github.com/treehug88/sinatra-unicorn-example . Can someone help me to get logging working?
<treehug88> "learning ruby" even
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<havenwood> treehug88: usually in your unicorn.rb, something like: stderr_path "#{__dir__}/log/unicorn.log"
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<treehug88> havenwood: thanks. The thing that leads me astray there is that I'm using config.ru with unicorn, not unicorn.rb
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<havenwood> treehug88: so you're currently running?: rackup
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<treehug88> treehug88: is the same possible with config.ru, and /or what would my unicorn.rb file look like
<havenwood> treehug88: unicorn -c unicorn.rb -D
<Lewix> hi
<treehug88> I start the app as shown in the Makefile
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<treehug88> I know how to start it with a unicorn.rb, just not sure what the unicorn.rb file should look like havenwood
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<havenwood> treehug88: yeah, so you can add a unicorn conf file and a `-c conf_file_name`
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<treehug88> havenwood: so I can use a config.ru and a unicorn.rb at the same time? I'll try that
<havenwood> treehug88: ^ example conf link at top of this page
<havenwood> treehug88: yes, that's typical
<sdegutis> I tried Sinatra once.
<treehug88> awesome, I'll try that and get back to you havenwood
<sdegutis> Ended up going back to rails.
<sdegutis> Didn't want to reinvent all those perfectly good wheels.
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<treehug88> thanks for the tips havenwood
<havenwood> sdegutis: Well, sometimes you're making a bouquet or soup, and wheels are pretty annoying in that case.
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<sdegutis> :)
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<sdegutis> So, I've been tasked with writing a package manager for Lua :(
<sdegutis> And I won't be getting paid for it either.
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<havenwood> sdegutis: I do like Padrino's concept of multiple small apps rather than Rails' typical monolithic app. Or Lotus' elegant design.
<sdegutis> Can I just cp -R github.com/rubygems/rubygems and find/replace "ruby" with "lua" and it'll just work?
<sdegutis> havenwood: Lotus, eh?
<havenwood> Though I haven't made a lotus app yet. That might be a fun project.
<havenwood> sdegutis: http://lotusrb.org/
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<sdegutis> I saw it on HN a year ago or something. It didn't look entirely compelling.
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<sdegutis> I remembered it looking very familiar, like it wasn't bringing much new.
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<havenwood> sdegutis: freedom, composability, backs away slowly from some of the rails crazy
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<havenwood> but yeah, emulates it too
<sdegutis> I've gotten pretty comfortable working around the Rails-crazy, got it down to a science almost.
<havenwood> hehe
<sdegutis> Hey, have we met before?
<sdegutis> Your nick looks familiar.
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<havenwood> sdegutis: looks like we've talked evented io and scheme, based on logs :P
<sdegutis> Ah.
<sdegutis> Fun.
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<sdegutis> Welp, I'm gonna write some Rails code.
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<treehug88> hey havenwood, took your advice and added a unicorn.rb file < https://github.com/treehug88/sinatra-unicorn-example/blob/master/unicorn.rb > and am using it when I start unicorn < https://github.com/treehug88/sinatra-unicorn-example/blob/master/Makefile#L9 > . However, it's logging stderr and stdout, which is nothing like apache/nginx logs, and it seems to be ignoring the directive to write out a pidfile
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<havenwood> treehug88: you can pick your logger. does the dir it's writing the pid to exist?
<treehug88> yes
<treehug88> it's writing to /tmp :)
<treehug88> as for picking my logger, are there available ones that log 'like apache'
<treehug88> ?
<havenwood> treehug88: i've got to conference call ;(, back in a bit
<treehug88> ok thanks havenwood
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<Hanmac> hm i think you can not only pick your logger but you can also pick your log picker too ;P
<treehug88> anyone else able to provide help about logging 'like apache' from unicorn/sinatra? I've uploaded a complete working example here : https://github.com/treehug88/sinatra-unicorn-example/
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<treehug88> ah, this might answer my question: http://spin.atomicobject.com/2013/11/12/production-logging-sinatra/
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<guimaluf> Hey guys, I'm running a GTK app on Ruby in a limit RAM tablet. The problem is, Ruby isn't freeing memory on the system. As I've researched this is expected, but I couldn't find any way of limiting the memory ruby uses or to effectively free the memory. Some app interactions increased 2mb of memory usage, after running GC.start it keeps increasing memory usage. Thank you guys
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<hoelzro> guimaluf: I'm guessing that Ruby doesn't return memory to the OS
<hoelzro> the idea there is that if it needed it once, it'll need it again later
<guimaluf> hoelzro, yes, I know that.
<hoelzro> there might be an embedded-specific patch to Ruby that could help
<guimaluf> but I want to at least limit the maximum amount of memory that ruby can allocate
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<siwica> I stumbled over this in some code: "@foo ||= Bla.somemethod!". What is the meaning of "||="?
<havenwood> siwica: it's a walrus
<havenwood> ascii art
<siwica> ?!
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<havenwood> >> ?!
<eval-in____> havenwood => "!" (https://eval.in/190166)
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<havenwood> siwica: or/equals
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<havenwood> siwica: you can combine a number of operators with the assignment operator, like: ||= &&= ^= += -= *=, etc
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<guimaluf> siwica, I think it means a = a || Bla.something
<treehug88> guimaluf: that sounds like or 'quotas'
<treehug88> guimaluf: not sure you can ask ruby directly to do that (I actually don't know)
<treehug88> sorry I meant that sounds like "OS limits or quotas"
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<siwica> havenwood: so guimaluf is right?
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<havenwood> siwica: very close, it's: a || a = b
<treehug88> guimaluf: yeah a ||= b is the same as a = a || b
<havenwood> siwica: which is slightly different than: a = a || b
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<havenwood> treehug88: close, but not quite
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<gregf_> >> [nil, 10].each{ |a| puts "before #{a}"; a ||= 10; puts "after #{a}" }
<eval-in____> gregf_ => before ... (https://eval.in/190171)
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<treehug88> havenwood: huh? I'm quoting "The Ruby Programming Language", page 96
<treehug88> 2008 printing
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<havenwood> treehug88: it's wrong ;P
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<lolmaus> I'm running a console command using backticks. How do refactor that so that the output of the console command appears as the output of my Ruby script?
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<havenwood> treehug88: We should probably poke the author before reprint.
<treehug88> "we"?
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<havenwood> I or you.
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<havenwood> me or you*
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<havenwood> fine, me :P
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<treehug88> probably more logical
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<hrzz> anybody knows how can i identify laugh, scream etc with audio fingerprinting?
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<havenwood> treehug88: there's book correct, then there's #ruby correct :P
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<wasamasa> hrzz: hire enough unknowing people on amazon mechanical turk
<havenwood> hrzz: no, but that sounds fun
<havenwood> haha
<wasamasa> hrzz: don't forget to pay them or they'll riot
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<apeiros> wasamasa: can add that to fingerprints too
<hrzz> any, real, advice?
<havenwood> hrzz: sounds like a neat idea, but i know of nothing that can do it
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<apeiros> I doubt any generic fingerprinting will help you
<hrzz> I thought of using https://acoustid.org/chromaprint with various laugh fingerprints, won't work ah?
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<havenwood> i guess laughing is more staccato
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<havenwood> hrzz: do you just need to distinguish a laugh from a scream or be able to detect one or the other amongst other audio?
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<hrzz> havenwood: one or the other.
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<wasamasa> hrzz: I've tried it out in an audio tagger I'm still using
<wasamasa> hrzz: it was barely okay
<wasamasa> hrzz: might work out better for non-music audio, so TIAS
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<havenwood> how is it everyone needs to compare screams and laughs...? suspicious!
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<hrzz> wasamasa: what audio tagger did you use? I'm trying to identify this within speeches and conversations so it might work better.
<wasamasa> hrzz: beets
<treehug88> "Sound Detection and Identification: Our goal is to detect and identify sound objects, such as car horns or dog barks, in audio.
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<wasamasa> hrzz: this also reminds me of a quote I've read not too long ago
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<wasamasa> hrzz: "A word before we start: laughter and screams sound very much alike."
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<hrzz> wasamasa: absolutely .
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<centrx> that's what I always say on a murderous rampage on a sunny day
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<Hanmac> wasamasa: why not both? ;P just image you need to laugh while you try to scream ;D
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<havenwood> mm, true there's a laugh-scream, should be able to detect those as well
<havenwood> or maybe ratio or scream to laugh
<havenwood> ratio of*
<havenwood> if they're both occuring
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<Hanmac> yeah just image some old horror movie that are so funny that you dont know if you should laugh or weep (because the quality is so low) ;P
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<wasamasa> I think the "cackle" ratio is more telling
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<wasamasa> as in, how long frequency modulation takes
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<wasamasa> for screams it would be way longer, for laughter shorter to allow for these repetitious sounds
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<siwica> havenwood: ok, thanks. So what kind of date is evaluated to "true" in ruby when using ||? Anything but "nil"?
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<havenwood> siwica: anything but `nil` and `false`
<siwica> havenwood: ok sure :)
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<siwica> havenwood: And || only evaluates the second argument, if the first one is either 'nil' or 'false' then?
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<havenwood> yup
<centrx> siwica, false and nil are falsey, everything else is truthy
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<siwica> ok, then I understand the use of ||=
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<Hanmac> siwica: some special cases with object[key] ||= function ... like with object.attr ||= function, the #[]= part is only called when #[] is falsey
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<siwica> Hanmac: yes, thats what I thought
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<siwica> I've encountered a definition like: "foo: :bar". I understand :bar is a symbol, but what is foo?
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<siwica> *"foo:"
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<apeiros> foo: is a symbol too
<apeiros> in a hash
<apeiros> as of 2.1, it can also be a named argument
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<apeiros> x = {foo: :bar}
<apeiros> >> x = {foo: :bar}
<eval-in____> apeiros => {:foo=>:bar} (https://eval.in/190203)
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<apeiros> >> def foo(named_arg: :bar); named_arg; end; foo
<eval-in____> apeiros => :bar (https://eval.in/190204)
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<siwica> apeiros: so foo is a function in this case?
<apeiros> in the second case, foo is a method (not function), yes.
<apeiros> and named_arg is a named argument
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<apeiros> >> def foo(named_arg: :bar); named_arg; end; foo named_arg: "other than default"
<eval-in____> apeiros => "other than default" (https://eval.in/190206)
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<apeiros> :bar is the default value of the named argument
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<Hanmac> the funniest thing is that you can have function/method calls as default arguments too ;P
<siwica> so "foo: :bar" is a function definition then?
<siwica> dont quite get it
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<nobitanobi> good morning
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<havenwood> g'morn
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<chuck> I'm building a DSL, and I'd like to make it so that parameters can optionally be blocks. For example: header title: "Foo", date: -> { |activity| activity.created_at }
<chuck> I'm thinking that if a parameter is passed that is not a block, it is wrapped in a block that simply returns the provided value, to make my logic easier (so I can just do .call on everything)
<wallerdev> sounds good
<chuck> does that seem like the right approach, and if so is there an idiomatic way to wrap something in a block that returns the value if it's not already a block?
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<wallerdev> well you can just do -> { var }
<wallerdev> my_block = -> { var }
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<chuck> so: if !val.is_a?(Proc) { val = -> { val } }
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<wallerdev> somethin like that
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<mattias_> Is is possible to use layouts in ERB? I can't find any example.. just for haml etc..
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<pipework> mattias_: I don't know what it means to use layouts.
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<pipework> you mean render ERB within ERB.
<pipework> ?
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<mattias_> pipework: If I have a header, I don't want it in every html file
<mattias_> pipework: Yeah exactly
<centrx> It's templating systems all the way down
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<pipework> Mattias: Yeah, you just need to render ERB from within ERB.
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<pipework> I leave it to you to find the right levels of abstraction to make that not look terrible.
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<mattias_> pipework: Ok.. so no <%= yield %> etc?
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<mattias_> pipework: Or call some template from the layout file? Can't be right?
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* Mattias stares at himself
<pipework> mattias_: It's just ruby. Look into the erb docs if you're curious.
<pipework> Mattias: I like you better with a tail, it suits you.
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<centrx> Any wagers on Ruby 2.2 release date/beta/rc?
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<pipework> $200 on 'yes'
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<miah> Due in about 4 months (12/25/2014)
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<workmad3> miah: I don't trust that release date :P
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<workmad3> miah: I mean, maybe I'm somewhat cynical, but I kinda doubt they're gonna cut a release on christmas day ;)
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<a_> How do you guys avoid writing a spec that would take too much production code to make pass?
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<miah> they released 1.9.3-p194 on 4/20 =)
<a_> I have that as a particular problem for my first spec, as I haven't explored the problem at all, yet
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<workmad3> a_: write a smaller spec? :)
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<miah> a_: specs generally cover testing the public interfaces; if you need to get complex i'd write a unit test
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<workmad3> miah: unit tests also tend to cover the public interfaces :P
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<miah> if you're just learning; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URSWYvyc42M
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<miah> workmad3: sure; but in unit tests you might also re-declare a private method as being public
<miah> but doing that in a spec is... ugly
<workmad3> miah: err... I'd never do that
<miah> ya
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<a_> miah: by 'spec' I meant unit test
<workmad3> miah: it's ugly no matter where you do it
<miah> sure
<a_> miah: a BDD assertion
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<miah> workmad3: ya agree; its a bad example. sometimes useful for exploration though. =0
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<workmad3> miah: exploration tests are a different matter ;)
<workmad3> miah: and at that point, ugliness also doesn't matter... it's just a choice of test-runner framework basically :)
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<miah> sure
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<miah> ive only ever used minitest because i dont feel like learning all the magic of rspec
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<miah> test-unit is pretty simple
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<miah> try learning ruby _and_ rspec at the same time.. lots of new ideas and paradigms
<workmad3> miah: rspec is pretty simple too, ya know ;)
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<miah> workmad3: maybe.
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<workmad3> miah: assert_equal(foo, bar) to expect(foo).to eq(bar)
<miah> right but im talking about internal semantics
<miah> eg; how rspec works vs minitest
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<miah> because documentation is always horrible and most bloggers dont know wtf they are talking about
<miah> the source rarely lies; but it might confuse the hell out of you =)
<apeiros> minitest >>> rspec. kthxbye :)
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<workmad3> miah: yeah, I'd hope newcomers only discovered rspec3 ways of doing things tbh :)
<miah> i dont have any technical qualms with rspec
<apeiros> I do :)
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<workmad3> miah: as there's a lot less magic going on now, fewer edge cases to be aware of :)
<miah> just that as a new ruby programmer; picking up ruby _and_ rspec is difficult
<miah> cool
<apeiros> but main issue is what you already said
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<pipework> code motherfucker > minitest > rspec > python
<workmad3> tbh, the edge cases for rspec are the kinda the same as minitest nowadays
<miah> minitest has been super simple for me to learn and i dont see myself changing
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<miah> plus; test-unit is pretty common among programming languages
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<apeiros> workmad3: has the rspec API at least stabilized now? last I checked (maybe 3y ago) it changed almost monthly…
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<pipework> well, it doesn't really change all that much
<a_> rspec is in a pretty awesome state right now. second to none
<pipework> Most shops know rspec, and it's impossible to teach them that their tests don't need to be in a DSL to be awesome.
<pipework> a_: More like third or fourth, rite :D
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<miah> dsls for newcomers are aweful
<clov3r> hello #ruby
<apeiros> how rare… I'm of the same opinion as pipework :-p
<a_> Ultimately choice of frameworks is purely aesthetics if it functionally supports spying and mocking and assertion
<workmad3> pipework: I know my tests don't need to be in a DSL to be awesome... but I like the DSL, so I use it :)
<miah> a_: agree
<clov3r> quick question, is there an alternative to Enumerable#group_by that returns an array?
<workmad3> apeiros: hmm... is that not a red flag about your opinion? </troll> ;)
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<apeiros> workmad3: I like DSLs where they create value. rspec IMO does not create value through its DSL. in the opposite.
<apeiros> workmad3: GAH!
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<miah> clov3r: map?
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<apeiros> clov3r: append .to_a?
<pipework> apeiros: It's not bad, just a little complex if you peek behind the curtain.
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<centrx> clov3r, my_enum.group_by(&:values)
<apeiros> for the grouping to happen, it'll have to go through a hash anyway
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<centrx> clov3r, my_enum.group_by.map(&:values)
<centrx> nevermind, I quit
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<a_> TDD *seems* to require a bottom-up approach
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<pipework> "So, your example objects, they aren't always callable procs that represent the example, but only sometimes? Fuck me, right?" :(
<apeiros> pipework: the point is: its complexity is absolutely pointless.
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<pipework> a_: It does not
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<a_> pipework: I expected disagreement there, and I *want* to be convinced otherwise;
<clov3r> hmmm... i want to retain the original index order from my 2-level array
<pipework> TDD is a "Fuck you, I'm gonna write a test" approach. Test-first TDD is a "Fuck you, I'm gonna write a test first approach."
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<clov3r> i guess i can figure out some mapping that'll do it...
<apeiros> clov3r: maybe you should elaborate your question.
<pipework> a_: There's no limitation or dictation that makes your assertion true.
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<apeiros> clov3r: you know. like with an example in-/output and what currently goes wrong
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<workmad3> apeiros: I really appreciate the extensibility of the matcher approach to test assertions. Beyond that, the .should monkeypatch was a bit messy... but hey, that's turned off nowadays :)
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<pipework> a_: "It seems to me that ruby requires a web-first approach"
<miah> i'm currently reading through Domain Driven Design; so test first seems to be wrong too; design first ;)
<a_> pipework: the rationale I have at the moment is- if you TDD top-down, the test you try to pass first will require a whole lot of code to get working
<apeiros> workmad3: I really like how I can just do def assert_whateverthefuckiwanttotest
<pipework> a_: So?
<a_> pipework: whereas working bottom-up, there are simple components to get testing
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<workmad3> apeiros: expect(foo).to be_whatever_the_fuck_i_want
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<a_> pipework: so, the tests don't really drive anything any more, except the very high level top-down interface
<pipework> You're discussing outside-in and inside-out.
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<clov3r> apeiros, sure: I have CSV data, read in as an array of rows (ie an array of arrays). I want to group the rows according to the value of one of their elements
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<pipework> a_: So drop down another level and write another test, starting another feedback loop.
<a_> pipework: oh: I considered outside-in to be top-down ?
<apeiros> clov3r: that's an explanation. not an example.
<pipework> a_: Yeah.
<clov3r> groups = data.group_by { |row| row[1] }
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<clov3r> #=> Hash
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<miah> clov3r: gist?
<clov3r> yeah that would be better
<a_> pipework: though, wouldn't that contradict the red-green-refactor mantra?
<apeiros> I don't get it… do people not understand what an example is? like the 4th or 5th person this week…
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<pipework> a_: Not at all.
<workmad3> a_: not at all
<pipework> Test is still red, so you write more.
<centrx> clov3r, array_of_rows.group_by { |row| row[:one_of_their_elements] }.map(&:values) ?
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<workmad3> a_: in the outermost 'red' you have several 'red-green-refactor' loops of a smaller scope
<workmad3> a_: and then it's just turtles all the way down ;)
<pipework> If you had read the rspec book, it has a description of this particular approach.
<pipework> workmad3: turds, actually.
<pipework> turds all the way down
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<a_> pipework: I've read it, but many moons ago - and that was at a time where I didn't have much context to place things into
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<workmad3> pipework: I'm not as jaded and cynical as you... and I like turtles more than turds :)
<apeiros> "If you had read the rspec book" - I appreciate how minitest does not require you to read a book. </rspec bashing>
<pipework> workmad3: Yeah, but you're not a turtle. :p
<workmad3> pipework: I could be!
<pipework> apeiros: It doesn't. It's an explanation of their opinion on BDD.
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<workmad3> apeiros: TDD: By Example :P
<a_> workmad3: turtling all the way down makes sense to me. Would you put a 'skip' statement in the higher-level turtles ?
<workmad3> a_: not normally, no
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<pipework> It's the theory before the 'how do rspec'
<apeiros> workmad3: notice how one is about a framework, the other about a general idea/technique :-p
<pipework> apeiros: So because people write books about libraries, they're inferior?
<workmad3> apeiros: the rspec book is more about theory and approach
<a_> It really isn't necessary to read an rspec book. rspec works with a rudimentary knowledge
<pipework> So I could write a book on minitest and it'd make minitest suck?
<workmad3> apeiros: which you'd know if you'd read it :P
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<havenwood> pipework: A pamphlet maybe. :P
<havenwood> Or novella.
<miah> i've found the README to be quite pamphlet like =)
<pipework> havenwood: Well, I bet I could stretch it into three part series of lengthy books.
<apeiros> pipework: you can take polemic and try to interpret it literally. but that just makes you look bad :-p
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<pipework> apeiros: I'm just saying, someone wrote a book, big deal.
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<apeiros> pipework: I'm just saying I was obviously being polemic.
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<a_> workmad3: I feel like there should be some kind of statement to go into higher-level turtles to indicate the level of depth, or something
<apeiros> do we need tags for that now?
<workmad3> apeiros: I don't mind bashing from reasonable starting points... but if you're going to do it from a brief, 3y.o. foray into a package and bad assumptions off the name of a book, that's just shitty arguing :P
<pipework> apeiros: Please more hashtaggotry
<a_> workmad3: for instance, once you've turtled down, how do you easily know which spec to return to
<workmad3> a_: if your stack is so deep that you can't remember that, you've cut your layers too thinly, IMO :P
<pipework> a_: When you feel like you've implemented whatever you need to satisfy the higher level tests.
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<havenwood> miah: mhmm, though he needs to update MiniTest to sparkly new Minitest
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<havenwood> save that keystroke
<workmad3> havenwood: you mean you don't use the pinky of your other hand to hit shift?
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<apeiros> workmad3: *sigh*, the part about the book was polemic. that rspec has much higher knowledge requirements than minitest however is not.
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<a_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/Test-driven_development.PNG <- The TDD diagram here disagrees with turtling down
<pipework> I don't believe that's true.
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<apeiros> (and the book part *obviously* built up on that)
<pipework> You need to learn the interface and usage of any tool.
<a_> Obviously it's not the canonical TDD source, but there's clearly contention on that issue
<havenwood> workmad3: now i'm self conscious and i can't tell which pinky i'd use for "t"
<havenwood> i think right pinky
<havenwood> or left, no gah
<pipework> a_: There's any number of possible ways to write your tests. TDD just says to do it.
<havenwood> but which pinky should we use to capitalize 't'???
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<workmad3> havenwood: I use my left pinky to capitalize t... but if you're on qwerty, you should use your right ;)
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<havenwood> :O
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<atmosx> ...
<atmosx> aloha girls
<workmad3> apeiros: is the 'higher knowledge requirement' because you happened to already be familiar with asserts from an xUnit framework in another language, perchance? :P
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<sevvie> /quit
<apeiros> pipework: lets see… 9000 tags for rspec on stackoverflow, 400 for minitest. sure, not conclusive, but a clear indicator.
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<apeiros> workmad3: ^
<pipework> apeiros: Your science is weak.
<a_> I might skim over growing object oriented software with tests
<havenwood> pipework: so you consider test first development to be only one type of TDD? seems some folk mean test first by TDD and others just mean test.
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<pipework> 0 tags for my library on stackoverflow, and a billion for Rails.
<apeiros> pipework: awesome, then it'll be easy to counter it
<pipework> My library > rails
<a_> I'm at a point where I don't feel like I need to sit through a whole book on it, but maybe be guided by new patterns to try out
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<pipework> havenwood: I personally practice test-first, but acknowledge that other forms of TDD exist.
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<a_> pipework: there are non-test-first forms of TDD? 0_o
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<havenwood> i test. ;P
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<havenwood> the when part is murky
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<pipework> a_: word on the street, yeah
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<a_> pipework: sounds like the tests are backseat drivers!
<workmad3> apeiros: counter-question - do you have stats on the relative size of inexperienced users (the type likely to hit up SO) between minitest and rspec?
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<havenwood> a_: you can test first, test last, or test somewhere in the middle
<pipework> Can we all agree that we have opinions and no real data?
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<pipework> test sparsely!
<apeiros> workmad3: no. but I doubt it's a diff of x20. especially since minitest has been a long-time stdlib part
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<a_> havenwood: you can, but the tests aren't exactly "driving" anything if they're not in the front
<pipework> test passive-aggressively
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<pipework> a_: You do know most cars have the ability to drive in reverse, right?
<havenwood> a_: fine, hammock driven development with test coverage
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<pipework> havenwood: hamhock driven development: Trying to write code during Thanksgiving.
<a_> pipework: don't screw up my pretty little mind with strange analogies like that
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<apeiros> man, I hate how evidence in english is used for both, indication/lead and proof…
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<workmad3> apeiros: I'd happily accept it was x20 considering that both the hartl book and rails 3 in action (dunno about r4ia) use rspec
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<a_> For what it's worth, I think once you've practiced TDD for long enough, and you naturally write testable code, it becomes very possible to test retroactively
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<pipework> It does, but it pisses you off to no end.
<a_> And I think doing so can actually be faster
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<pipework> Then you leave work and drink until you can't form sentences, let alone tests.
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<pipework> a_: It's always easy to write tests for code you've just written.
<apeiros> workmad3: could search github
<pipework> This thing should do exactly what I told it to.
<apeiros> workmad3: I'm too lazy to come up with proper counting searches, tho
<pipework> I'd guess that there's 50 rspec users for every minitest user.
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<workmad3> apeiros: heh :)
<a_> pipework: I'm not sure your younger, inexperienced self would have agreed, before having TDD practice
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<pipework> I prefer minitest simply because it's ruby.
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<a_> pipework: before TDD, I didn't sufficiently use dependency injection etc. - but now I've learned to
<workmad3> a_: pipework *is* his younger, inexperienced self :P
<pipework> a_: You've never backfilled tests for old tests?
<pipework> I mean for old code.
<workmad3> characterisation tests ftw!
<pipework> I'm the more skeptical version of myself.
<apeiros> workmad3: ruby-toolbox download stats say 2:1 (rspec:minitest). not entirely fair due to minitest being in stdlib for quite a while. so IMO diff is probably even smaller.
<havenwood> pipework: It wont be in 2.2.0.
<a_> pipework: if the old code has been written by myself/someone who has done plenty of TDD, sure
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<workmad3> apeiros: right... but I'm not particularly interested in total usage ;)
<a_> pipework: my point was basically that without TDD experience, someone doesn't write testable code that they can retroactively test
<havenwood> Minitest is quite popular. Though yeah, sure, RSpec more so.
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<pipework> a_: Writing testable code is a smell.
<apeiros> workmad3: so even if we used that as an indicator, it'd still be 10:1 in questions on SO
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<a_> pipework: and that *with*, it becomes less necessary to write those tests firsts
<a_> pipework: wat
<pipework> Code paths are testable things.
<workmad3> apeiros: I was asking about the type of users likely to run to SO with some simple question about rspec... the newcomers to both testing and ruby ;)
<havenwood> easy enough to scan the Githubs for Minitest vs RSpec projects
<a_> pipework: some code paths are less testable than others
<pipework> a_: No they aren't.
<apeiros> workmad3: that's so subjective I can't even properly phrase how unanswerable that question is :-p
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<a_> pipework: you think every code path is created equally in how easy it is to test ?
<pipework> All are testable, though some may be harder to reach.
<a_> pipework: there we go
<pipework> Write simple code, write simple tests.
<havenwood> Stop writing bugs and you can drop the tests.
<apeiros> workmad3: I could interpret the question as "SO just has so many rspec questions because all the *good* devs use minitest" :D
<workmad3> apeiros: right... which is why I was trying to put it onto firmer footing by pointing out that two of the main intros to rails use rspec over minitest
<pipework> Drink better alcohol.
<havenwood> Just be perfect.
<pipework> Wash behind your ears.
<workmad3> apeiros: when was the last time you wrote an SO question? ;)
<havenwood> I think Matz is a recent convert to test-last development.
<apeiros> workmad3: luckily most questions I'd have written on SO already had been asked
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<pipework> havenwood: Why do you say that?
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<apeiros> and I think I queried SO 3x today alone :)
<havenwood> pipework: He said so in an interview. He was asked what he thought of DHH's test-first is dead.
<pipework> havenwood: he?
<pipework> Oh Matz, I read Metz
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<pipework> Also, I'm illiterate.
<havenwood> pipework: Response was something about never having grokked test-first but being a convert to tests.
<havenwood> pipework: ahh
<pipework> Also, Matz prefers #key? over #has_key? so...
<havenwood> pipework: No, that would be more shocking!
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<havenwood> pipework: do you has key?
<pipework> havenwood: I haz key
<havenwood> pipework: that'd work
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<havenwood> #haz_key? or #have_key?
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<apeiros> ah admin interfaces. so much less UI hassle.
<havenwood> buh bye Minitest Test::Unit
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<apeiros> IMO ruby should just drop stdlib and add "gold level gems"
<centrx> Premium-sponsor gems
<apeiros> i.e., gems which pass a certain threshold of quality (docs, tests, maturity)
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<workmad3> apeiros: I'm still waiting for the rubysl umbrella gem to get released :P
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<apeiros> hm, curious - what holds them back?
<apeiros> I mean gemifying stdlib shouldn't take ages…
<workmad3> no idea... rubinius went and gemified their sl in rbx2
<havenwood> pipework: hem, looks like Minitest gem will live on in Ruby after all - that's nice
<pipework> havenwood: :D
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<marcules> hi
<centrx> Ahoy
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<miah> sup
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<hfp_work> I can't understand what's wrong here https://gist.github.com/anonymous/e9625c09f7b5356dc2d6. When I call `get_answer question: "Foo?", store_in: :symbol, yes_no: false` and I just press <enter> at the gets, I'm getting this https://gist.github.com/anonymous/1a695614f310c0163707. What gives?
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<hfp_work> It's like it's not finging my rescue
<hfp_work> finding*
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<workmad3> hfp_work: gist your code too, or can't help
<apeiros> hfp_work: you can put 2 files into a single gist
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<apeiros> workmad3: he did. first gist
<Wolland> he did
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<centrx> hfp_work, Your exception needs to be defined as a class that inherits from Exception, as described in http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.2/Exception.html
<apeiros> hfp_work: you try to rescue InvalidAnswer, but you don't define InvalidAnswer in a place ruby finds it
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<workmad3> ah... I hate multiple gists
<Wolland> you think you have to define it
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<hfp_work> apeiros: Yeah I keep forgetting... Limechat gists separately when I paste a lot of code but doesn't combine
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<workmad3> hfp_work: there's a lovely button 'add extra file' at the bottom of the gist interface... please use it ;)
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<bettycla1p> Has something happened to the openssl gem? I can't seem to install it on CentOS.
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<bettycla1p> "ERROR: Could not find a valid gem 'openssl' (>= 0) in any repository"
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<zenspider> openssl ships with ruby
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<workmad3> bettycla1p: there isn't an openssl gem... there's an openssl extension as part of the standard library
<zenspider> centos' packaging might have split it out
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<zenspider> which is yet-another-reason why I don't use centos
<apeiros> in general, system <X> is bad for your sanity for reason <Y> :)
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<workmad3> apeiros: that's why I just use CthulhuLinux, insanity edition
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<apeiros> :D
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<zenspider> jump in the deep end
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<havenwood> bettycla1p: sudo yum install -y gcc automake gdbm-devel libffi-devel libyaml-devel openssl-devel ncurses-devel readline-devel zlib-devel
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<drusepth> Is thread-local storage actually implemented as a single thread-global hash?
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<drusepth> i.e. begging for name collisions
<havenwood> thread local is thread local
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<zenspider> drusepth: what's your actual problem?
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<zenspider> so... no: th->local_storage && st_lookup(th->local_storage, id, &val)
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<drusepth> No problem, just talking with someone who's saying the variables returned by Thread.current are globally shared among all parts of the thread
<drusepth> as opposed to the scoped object you'd see in e.g. python
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<shevy> bettycla1p in the official ruby source, the bindings to openssl can be found in ext/openssl
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<shevy> bettycla1p that error seems bogus - there is no gem called openssl, so something must give you a false report
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<zenspider> drusepth: Thread.current doesn't return variables. it returns a thread instance
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<zenspider> that object has hash-like access, ie [] and []= are defined
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<zenspider> "globally shared among all parts of the thread" is a misnomer. that's like saying hash values are globally shared
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<zenspider> anyone with access to the object can grab a value via a key. that's the point of it.
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<crazydiamond> Hi. When can I find source and latest version for modules like REXML? http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.9.3/libdoc/rexml/rdoc/REXML.html
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<zenspider> crazydiamond: I highly recommend you don't use rexml, but the source ships with ruby so it IS the latest version
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<zenspider> rexml is pretty much unmaintained at this point. highly inefficient too. kinda a shitty design if you ask me
<crazydiamond> zenspider, yes, I've found a bug in it
<zenspider> nokogiri is a much better way to go
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<zenspider> crazydiamond: so if you get a checkout of the source, it'll be in lib/rexml*
<zenspider> you can do that via canonical SVN server via ruby-lang.org, or you can grab the git mirror on github.com/ruby/ruby
<crazydiamond> ok, but where to checkout from? :-) Github etc?
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<crazydiamond> uhm, ok
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<crazydiamond> 'cause that's stdlib
<zenspider> right
<crazydiamond> so ruby itself
<zenspider> right
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<crazydiamond> btw, does nokogiri parse DTD?
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<crazydiamond> that was my goal, and I found that rexml does that. but it don't works
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<zenspider> crazydiamond: I dunno. I just help maintain it. :) tenderlove is travelling right now so I can't ask him.
<zenspider> prolly someone in #nokogiri can answer that tho
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<crazydiamond> zenspider, thanks!
<zenspider> it _probably_ does tho? It's just a nice wrapper around libxml2 and libxslt
<wasamasa> crazydiamond: nokogiri is ruby on top of libxml2
<wasamasa> crazydiamond: so, if libxml2 does this, nokogiri most likely does it, too
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<wasamasa> crazydiamond: according to this (excellent) cheatsheet, it does: https://github.com/sparklemotion/nokogiri/wiki/Cheat-sheet
<zenspider> wasamasa: thanks!
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<wasamasa> zenspider: I wish I'd found this one earlier, thanks to it I found out you can find an element by search of node contents
<wasamasa> zenspider: which is a lot less bothersome than figuring out the right selector if namespaces or other atrocities are involved
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<zenspider> hah
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<wasamasa> came in handy for parsing a facebook page
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<wasamasa> you wouldn't believe what these guys do to protect themselves against scraping :P
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<zenspider> hah
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<bettycla1p> I'm pretty stuck with this (looked at various google pages but no luck): it's a NoMethodError saying "/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rest_client-1.7.3/lib/restclient/request.rb:151:in `transmit': undefined method `ssl_version=' for #<Net::HTTP..."
<bettycla1p> (I'm not a rubyist, unfortunately..)
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<bettycla1p> Vaxgeek: I already found and tried that, but it doesn't work.
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<Vaxgeek> bettycla1p: "Net HTTP does not support ssl_version setting before ruby 1.9.3"
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<Vaxgeek> bettycla1p: you probably shouldn't be using 1.8 anyways...
<bettycla1p> Vaxgeek: where are you quoting that sentence from? It's not on the SO page.
<pipework> bettycla1p: 1.8 is end of life
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<bettycla1p> ok, thanks.
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<nobitanobi> When I want to check if a value is X,Y,Z,.. I do this [X,Y,Z].include?(value) - Is this a good pattern?
<pipework> nobitanobi: does it matter?
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<zenspider> nobitanobi: array#include? is going to ask if the right-hand-side is in the array, not the other way around
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<nobitanobi> right. I refactored from if value == X || value == Y || value == Z , to [X,Y,Z].include?(value).
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<nobitanobi> so I was wondering what would be a good way to actually check if a value is X,Y or Z
<zenspider> ok. then yes, that should be fine
<nobitanobi> thank you zenspider
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<zenspider> you can also use case value; when X, Y, Z then ... ; else ... end
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<nobitanobi> perfect. thank you
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<panagiotiszzzz> hello
<panagiotiszzzz> cool client
<panagiotiszzzz> I don't like the theme though
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<zenspider> shevy: that's kinda cool
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<testingsa> this client loos cool too
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<shevy> hmm
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<shevy> if I have some data that is configuration for a project... what should this data usually be? a hash I assume would offer the most flexibility
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<shevy> right now I have an array and it confuses me as the original dataset is a yaml file with key: value entries only
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<pipework> shevy: Whatever is right
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<shevy> I hate choice
<pipework> shevy: I usually use a hash though.
<pipework> There is no choice, only right and what you end up choosing.
<miah> start with a hash; move it to a object
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<miah> pretty much how i'm rolling all of my chef stuff
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<pipework> Or use hashie rash
<shevy> I don't like rashes
<pipework> It's the worst of both worlds wrapped up in an enigma
<miah> hashie/mash have their own issues; like creating keys on reference
<pipework> shevy: you are a rash.
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<pipework> miah: use more has_key?
<miah> well yes
<miah> but people who program chef cookbooks dont know ruby; they dont use #fetch either
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<atmosx> shevy: why not use YAML instead?
<atmosx> an external YAML config file, it's cleaner that any of the other solutions
<pipework> miah: someone should waste everyone's time and make a provisioning tool for rubyists.
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<miah> i think we already have multiple bad iterations of that (and package managers)
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<shevy> atmosx I use yaml
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<pipework> miah: Well, not that I know of.
<atmosx> shevy: thoughth you were using an array
<pipework> Just two fairly popular provisioning tools written in ruby for sysadmins
<shevy> atmosx yeah, in the ruby code
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<shevy> atmosx I am rewriting a big project since about 3 days
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<shevy> today I slayed a $ variable
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<faefadf> oh man, my thread is not giving error even tho i have Thread::abort_on_exception = true
<atmosx> shevy: I'd go for hashes i the ruby code
<atmosx> arrays for config values are confusing
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<atmosx> hashes are so nice :cat => 'meow', :dog => 'woof' ... so clear
<shevy> yeah
<shevy> the animal hash
<wallerdev> how can errors be real if exceptions arent real
<shevy> ur mom is not real
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<shevy> miah we need a package manager in ruby
<atmosx> faefadf: can you gist the code?
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<atmosx> shevy: what, why? what's wrong with gem?!
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<shevy> gem works only for ruby stuff
<pipework> atmosx: Sometimes you just have a set of arguments.
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<shevy> imagine if we could have the one package manager to solve EVERYTHING
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<pipework> shevy: If it could solve my loneliness, I'd be on board. :(
<wallerdev> package managers are always out of date
<pipework> package managers are stuck in the past.
<pipework> We need a future manager.
<shevy> and what will we manage in the future?
<pipework> shevy: the now
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<shevy> oh man
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<shevy> that reminds me of rage against the machine lyrics
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<shevy> Who controls the past, now controls the future
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<shevy> Who controls the present, now controls the past
<miah> shevy: gem + bundler =)
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<miah> far too many package managers
<shevy> don't forget
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<miah> nix is pretty cool though
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<shevy> pacman ... emerge... portage... apt ... aptitute... dpkg ... rpm ...
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<shevy> brew!
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<miah> though gnu forked nix and reimplemented its internal language in guile
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<miah> nix vs guix.. yay.
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<pipework> Steam might unify everything.
<miah> lol
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<miah> chocolatey might change the game too ;)
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<pipework> what's that
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<pipework> um
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<zorak8> hi im trying to install ruby whit rbend but cant
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<havenwood> what's rbend?
<zorak8> linux mint 17
<faefadf> the latest and greatest
<havenwood> oh, typo
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<havenwood> zorak8: what fails? (you probably mean ruby-build)
<zorak8> already install ruby-build
<zorak8> rbenv install 2.1.0
<zorak8> BUILD FAILED (LinuxMint 17 using ruby-build 20140905-15-g29f1a19)
<havenwood> zorak8: same issues with 2.1.2?
<shevy> why did it fail
<havenwood> readline?
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<zorak8> gonna try with 2.1.2
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<atmosx> I always thought programmers were smart and economists stupid
<zenspider> everyone is stupid
<miah> everybody is stupid
<miah> lol
<zenspider> haha
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<atmosx> then the discussion shifted to bitcoin, suddenly economists look extremely smart and programmers extremely naive and stupid
<atmosx> how is that possible?
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<atmosx> miah: is Feynman stupid?
<miah> zorak8: The Ruby openssl extension was not compiled. Missing the OpenSSL lib?
<zenspider> zorak8: /tmp/ruby-build.20140908183224.12505.log
<miah> zorak8: did you install openssl-dev / openssl-libs or whatever the equivilent is in mint?
<atmosx> Well of course, otherwise he wouldn't helped the manhattan project.
<atmosx> hm
<miah> atmosx: yes; the way he treated people was very stpuid
<atmosx> yever everybody is stupid apparently
<zenspider> atmosx: in some ways he sure was
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<atmosx> cool
<atmosx> so that's kinda natural then
<zorak8> i dont think
<miah> just because you are intelligent doesnt mean you are not stupid
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<zenspider> phrase I use a fair amount: dumbest smart guy I've ever met
<shevy> cool
<shevy> I can't decide if this is a praise or an insult
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<atmosx> zenspider: oh, to describe a stupid but smart?
<atmosx> shevy: me either
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<bricker`work> This is a weird problem: Apparently rspec's 'let' will assign the variable to nil if you're assigning the variable yourself *anywhere* in your test
<jhass> let doesn't define methods?
<pipework> It do.
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<pipework> Well, sorta.
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<jhass> bricker`work: I think that's rubys work, not rspecs
<jhass> it sees the assignment so it thinks something is a local variable instead of a method
<jhass> and since it's not assigned, just present in the scope, it's nil
<jhass> try puts something() in the first example
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<bricker`work> jhass: Yeah, I think you're right.
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<pipework> He's left.
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<bricker`work> hah hah hah
<pipework> har har har
<jhass> no, I'm still here! so I'm middle maybe?
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<Guest92066> Hi guys - little TDD-related question; "don't mock what you don't own"
<Guest92066> That principle requires you to create an adapter over the external interface, so you can mock that instead
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<Guest92066> But how can you test the adapter you've made, itself, without mocking the external interface, ultimately?
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<miah> you test that the adapter works with the defined inputs and produces the correct outputs
<miah> and then you hope the interface doesnt change =)
<Guest92066> miah: sounds a lot like mocking the external interface :)
<miah> no
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<miah> because youre not mocking the internals of that external interface
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<Guest92066> miah: mocking's only ever used for the externals of an interface, though, right?
<Guest92066> (I don't know what mocking the internals of an external interface even means!)
<miah> sure; but you dont have to actual do processing to represent that external interface
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<miah> eg; if you are connecting to a web server. you wouldn't mock the web server. you'd mock that you can connect to a thing; and that when the thing responds with 'foo' that you can handle that
<miah> the 'thing' becomes an abstraction and any 'thing' that looks similar should work
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<miah> let me see if i can find a good example
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<gr33n7007h> how can I make "\x80\x00\x00\x00\xFF\xFF\xFF" into "80:00:00:00:ff:ff" ?
<waxjar> don't you end up with unnessecary and untested layers of adapters if you follow that principle?
<miah> waxjar: maybe
<miah> i havent been programming long enough to be a expert on that subject
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<miah> but i would think its good effort to validate the interfaces you are connecting to
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<zenspider> Guest92066: my rule is: mock last. test against the real thing until you shouldn't anymore. And even then have an escape valve set up so you can.
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<Guest92066> zenspider: contentious. :)
<miah> i think that sounds like very valid advice
<zenspider> pragmatic
<Guest92066> It's the classicist vs mockist argument
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<zenspider> As a classicist, I don't mock at all. That's my rule for people who do want to mock
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<Guest92066> :)
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<zenspider> periodically, I stub. But `def` is my stub framework 99% of the time.
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<waxjar> #define_singleton_method, ftw! :D
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<zenspider> or just def
<zenspider> I don't know why I'd ever want to call define_singleton_method
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<zenspider> right, other than rb_define_singleton_method, but that doesn't count.
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<waxjar> dunno, just preference i guess
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<zenspider> for what? an extra method call?
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<gr33n7007h> how can I make "\x80\x00\x00\x00\xFF\xFF\xFF" into "80:00:00:00:ff:ff" ?
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<waxjar> instead of def x.bla; end i do x.define_singleton_method(:bla) { }
<siwica> when using a hash in a function definition like "def foo(parameter_hash = {}) end" the "={}" is just cosmetic or does it serve a purpose?
<mozzarella> siwica: it assigns a default value
<centrx> siwica, It is a default
<zenspider> waxjar: I know how calling a method works. just not sure why you'd want more indirection when it is built into the syntax
<zenspider> I also don't call alias_method because alias exists.
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