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<joway>
Anyone familiar with CSV?
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<crome_>
there is a tricky question coming, I feel it deep inside
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<Gurpartap>
a___: ok. so it just started to work.
<shevy>
joway a little, it is just comma separated data
<shevy>
where comma could be a tab or anything else too
<crome_>
and shevy just walked right into the trap
<joway>
lol
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<Gurpartap>
a___: the problem is still reproducible, however, when i use a os x workstation to build a Dockerfile (connected to docker on a host running ubuntu)
<Gurpartap>
running the build command on the host machine itself made it work though.
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<Gurpartap>
i think it’s a bug with docker.
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<RustyShackleford>
I'm trying to learn ruby by solving project euler problems
<RustyShackleford>
the one I'm working on uses a prime sieve. So I'm loading an array with a bunch of numbers
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<RustyShackleford>
should I be looping through the array with iterators?
<Lewix>
do you intend to do all the problems ^^
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<RustyShackleford>
so lets say we're at 2. I need to cross off all multiples of two. The best way i can think of involves keeping an index and accessing a[2i]
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<RustyShackleford>
Lewix, nope I'm not quite that smart
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<jhass>
really no idea what r is and enum.next is doing there
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<joway>
jhass: the enum iterates 1..21, the r.times triggers the enum. perhaps there's a better way to iterate through data[x][21] ?
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<jhass>
joway: like I've shown, rows = data
* icy`
stretches
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<joway>
jhess: Thanks, I'll try that.
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<jhass>
joway: if you have a big table and need to avoid building an intermediate array, the a bit more verbose version: data.inject(0) {|sum, row| sum+row[21].to_i }
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<usinganalias>
Hello all! I’m working on OSX right now and want to install RVM - if I type in ruby on the console after installing RVM, will RVM override the default ruby2.0.0 installed on OSX?
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<C0deMaver1ck>
I switched to rbenv a while back, but I'm pretty sure until you set a global rvm installed version `which ruby` will still be the system installed
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<usinganalias>
Hello all! Trying to install rvm via railstutorial and Michael Hartl says that he had to install using the —with-openssl-dir flag. Is that necessary or helpful? Why is it required?
<sevenseacat>
probably due to osx fun and games
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<usinganalias>
Thanks - I’ll give it a try w/out it then w/.
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<icy`>
i kinda like that "if programming languages were weapons" bit
<icy`>
ruby's was not negative; i guess the fact that the sword was unnecessarily shiny was...bad?
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<sevenseacat>
shiny but no mention of substance
<icy`>
i mean, it's still a sword
<icy`>
he didnt say it was worse than an ordinary sword
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<icy`>
and in very sunny weather, the shininess could blind the opponent
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<waxjar>
"only used because it's shiny" implies it isn't of much use i guess
* icy`
pouts
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<usinganalias>
Hello all! Reading the rails tutorial and it says to run “bundle update”, then “bundle install” - why is that? Doesn’t bundle update install already?
<havenwood>
usinganalias: `bundle` is an alias to `bundle install` and is the basic command
<usinganalias>
My understanding is that “bundle update” updates your Gemfile.lock to the latest versions, then does “bundle install.” Is that accurate?
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<havenwood>
usinganalias: `bundle` will create a Gemfile.lock if one doesn't exist, but `bundle update` will ignore the lock
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<havenwood>
usinganalias: maybe the author was confused
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<usinganalias>
Huh… that’s odd. I’ll just keep following the tutorial.
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<usinganalias>
Just to check my understanding, havenwood, rails install goes off the Gemfile.lock, whereas rails update tosses the Gemfile.lock, regenerates it, then uses the new one?
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<havenwood>
usinganalias: "[Y]ou should use bundle install to install the same exact gems and versions across machines. You would use bundle update to explicitly update the version of a gem."
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<havenwood>
usinganalias: bundler not rails
<usinganalias>
hahaha sorry - thanks, so from my understanding what I have is correct.
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<usinganalias>
Thanks havenwood!
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<aedorn>
hmph.. shiny.. Ruby is more like a cannon
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<work_op>
are there any idiomatic CLI libraries? i want to use something like curses but more rubyish than rbcurse
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<usinganalias>
Hello all! If I run “bundle install —without production” then “bundle install”, does the second bundle install read Gemfile.lock (and not install :production) or does it read the Gemfile (and install :production)?
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<usinganalias>
Hello all! I am desperately confused over bundler. I’ve seen on the rails tutorial three lines: “bundle install —without production; bundle update; bundle install” which install and update gems without the production set (I’ve verified this works). My question: why doesn’t “bundle update” install and update the :production gems? I thought “bundle update” deleted your Gemfile.lock and reinstalled all gems from scratch.
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<shock_one>
We've been using it in every single Rails project. Didn't know it was written by banisterfiend.
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<Hanmac>
maasha: if you havesomething like that: Foo.new { |bar| bar.inspect_foo } then either bar is an instance of Foo, or its use instance_exec and you can use self
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<DevAntoine>
why the fu-- it's refering to 1.9.1??????
<JonnieCache>
it does that
<JonnieCache>
theres some reason for it, but i cant remember what it is
<DevAntoine>
JonnieCache: but it's normal? Even if I use 2.1.2?
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<JonnieCache>
yeah ive seen it do that before
<DevAntoine>
so what, I have a wrong ruby version? I hate those error eaning nothing for the user
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<JonnieCache>
i know
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<DevAntoine>
since this morning I'm fighting with ruby, npm, grunt
<DevAntoine>
total waste of time
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<DevAntoine>
it seems that I only need to install compass now, but either with 1.9.1 or 2.1.2 it's not working
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<jhass>
DevAntoine: I hope you don't really mix sudo and RVM
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<DevAntoine>
jhass: what do you mean?
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<jhass>
how did you install rvm?
<DevAntoine>
without sudo if I remember correctly
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<jhass>
then forget that sudo exists
<DevAntoine>
jhass: yes, you helped me a lot, I was always install gem using sudo
<DevAntoine>
s/install/installing
<DevAntoine>
now I'm using 1.9.1-dev and compass is installing
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<jhass>
don't use sudo unless you can't explain why it can't possibly without
<jhass>
unless you can*
<jhass>
d'oh
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<jhass>
meh, not fully awake yet ;P
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<DevAntoine>
rah, I think I failed hard this morning
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<DevAntoine>
friday I had to install rvm to use ruby 2 to install jekyll
<DevAntoine>
and this morning when launching grunt test on another project I had an issue with compass
<DevAntoine>
obviously because compass wasn't installed on ruby2 yet
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<DevAntoine>
so I messed up with npm, node, deleted all the shit, reinstalling everything, crying with sudo and proxy
<DevAntoine>
but all I had to do was installing compass locally with this new ruby's version
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<DevAntoine>
a wasted morning because I'm a ruby noob :|
<DevAntoine>
at least I've learned it the hard way...
<jhass>
all just because you don't understand sudo and still blindly apply it ;P
<workmad3>
jhass: sudo all the things!!!!
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<DevAntoine>
jhass: well, before using rvm I had to use sudo to install gems
<jhass>
yes, but you can't explain why
<jhass>
that's my point
<Hanmac>
workmad3: you are a doctorWho fan ne, whats your opinion about the new Opening of the newest season?
<jhass>
then you applied it again without understanding the implications
<workmad3>
Hanmac: yes, and so far it's been pretty crap IMO
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<Hanmac>
hm ok imo the newest opening doesnt loooked that bad compared to the other ones ... hm an i didnt meant the episode itself ..
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<DevAntoine>
jhass: yes I can, because ruby was installed globally on my system (classic installation without rvm), so I had to use sudo to install gems globally. Now that ruby is installed locally (in my home?) using rvm, gems are installed locally too in the right ruby version's folder
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<DevAntoine>
that's right jhass ?
<workmad3>
Hanmac: the opening sequence change is symbolic of the new, low standard... 'lets get rid of this classic representation of the time vortex that we've built up for decades... and replace it with a steampunk set of gears and clocks'
<Hanmac>
hm ok i liked the steampunk design somehow ... but i will let me suprise how the episdoes will develop
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<workmad3>
Hanmac: I like steampunk... I just dislike that they've basically gone 'no, this view of the time vortex is too over the head of our viewers... lets really hammer home that this show is about time by blasting them with clocks in the opening sequence!'
<Hanmac>
workmad3: hm did you notice that the garden in the end of episode S08E01 is the same in "the Girl who Waited" where amy was trapd on that planet ?
<workmad3>
hadn't noticed that, no :P
<jhass>
DevAntoine: that's still the symptoms of what sudo does actually do (changing the environment and the child processes uid and gid)
<DevAntoine>
jhass: what are you talking about?
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<jhass>
compare env to sudo env, id to sudo id etc.
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<Hanmac>
workmad3: hm do you watch GravityFalls too? i found that funny picture showing the difference of the newest season with the older ones https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8294075648/h43EF6C59/ ;P ( with the title "Is This the Right Channel? = DisneyXD")
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<workmad3>
Hanmac: not seen gravity falls, no
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<DevAntoine>
jhass: I'm not really sure what you mean, but I'll be glad to have this conversation in 2h, when I'll be back ;)
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<Hanmac>
workmad3: oh ok then i think you should watch it ;P
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<jhass>
puppeh: if you can't look up on wikipedia how many nanoseconds a microsecond has, why don't you just try the (10**n)-1 for n > 0 until it fails?
<workmad3>
puppeh: how are you intending to test it?
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<momomomomo>
...
<AlexRussia>
mousa: and i am not sure, but maybe it should be equally?(verion gem and Qt)
<mousa>
momomomomo, I used the command line tools, could you be specific on which on you are talking about?
<momomomomo>
mousa: Did you go into XCode (or via command line) and install 'Command Line Tools'
<workmad3>
puppeh: if you're just wrapping up a Time.utc or similar helper, I'm assuming you'll just divide the usec by 1000 to get a float? if so, why not just pass that on to Time.utc and let that handle the range error
<mousa>
momomomomo, I installed Ruby, gem, Qt library and cmake
<workmad3>
puppeh: because, unsurprisingly, the nsec top range == usec top range * 1000
<mousa>
momomomomo, installed everything using command prompt
<AlexRussia>
XCode 5 (clang)
<AlexRussia>
Brew - QT 4.8.6
<AlexRussia>
Cmake 2.8.9
<AlexRussia>
Ruby 2.0.0p353 - Must be compiled with clang (rvm install <version> --with-gcc=clang)
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<momomomomo>
^
<momomomomo>
that's probably it
<mousa>
momomomomo, but the last one didn't install properly, it ended with errors
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<momomomomo>
what 'last one'
<momomomomo>
can you gist up your errors
<AlexRussia>
momomomomo: i guess, him Brew Qt too much old
<momomomomo>
maybe AlexRussia but this is like pulling teeth
<mousa>
momomomomo, last one is qtbindings
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<AlexRussia>
momomomomo: too much fear? xD
<momomomomo>
!gist
<helpa>
http://gist.github.com - Put your codes online with pretty syntax highlighting and the ability to embed it into other pages.
<momomomomo>
do that mousa
<workmad3>
momomomomo: nah... they give you anathestic when they yank your teeth out... :P
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<workmad3>
*anesthetic
<momomomomo>
:O Funny story - while I was going under, the dentist asked me if I drank beer (was underage) and then as I started to drift away started asking "who gets you the beer?"
<momomomomo>
I was like "What beeeeeeeeee......</conscious>"
<mousa>
momomomomo, but I have the command line tools installed
<momomomomo>
mousa I'm not going to help you if your next sentence isn't a link to a gist with your errors
<momomomomo>
mousa: !code
<helpa>
mousa: We cannot help you with your problem if you don't show us your code. Please put it on http://gist.github.com and give us the URL so we can see it.
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<AlexRussia>
momomomomo: lol
<AlexRussia>
momomomomo: first time fun story not fun :(
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<momomomomo>
ha
<shevy>
AlexRussia update your ruby version man
<AlexRussia>
shevy: why i should?
<momomomomo>
?
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<jhass>
says, ruby 1.8.7 shevy
<shevy>
jhass I don't have ruby 1.8.7
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<jhass>
you had for far too long
<momomomomo>
shevy: you might have missed this, but that paste with ruby 2.0 was from a test environment
<AlexRussia>
shevy: i guess, him not be surprised even if Jobs revival
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<shevy>
eh who cares about Jobs
<AlexRussia>
shevy: i just thought, all apple folks loved him :D
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<Hanmac>
momomomomo: it is if you need to test somethings with different compilers ... like gcc4.7+, gcc(system), clang(system) and clang(latest) ...
<Hanmac>
because external libs, ruby and the bindings/gems all need to be build with the exact same compiler ... otherwise it will bite you in your ass
<momomomomo>
Hanmac: point taken, but I guess if I'm doing that extensive of testing, I test with a VM of the environment I expect
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<workmad3>
Hanmac: I had 'fun' at one point where I did an OS X SL upgrade and it managed to ruin my system zlib
<AlexRussia>
shevy: isn't?
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<workmad3>
momomomomo: surprisingly, I managed to keep that system limping for something like 6 months before I just bit the bullet and did a clean install
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<momomomomo>
so here's a secret: I went to help someone who is head of a tech department, who happened to remove system python after 2 hours of trying to install python
<momomomomo>
that was a simpler fix though
<Hanmac>
workmad3: thats why i prefer a system with a decent package management ... (with that and i do install stuff on my own i will see where i fucked up)
<momomomomo>
installed the system version somewhere and symlink and slowly walk away...
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<workmad3>
momomomomo: yeah... my issue was more along the lines of the 32/64bit dual dylib got messed up and wouldn't work with both archs... and I dared not move it and replace because a) at the time I didn't know how to compile a replacement and b) it was mostly ruby that was screwed up, not other stuff (although it could have been responsible for spotlight crapping out on that machine too, I guess)
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<momomomomo>
workmad3: how did you manage to do that in the first place ha?
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<workmad3>
momomomomo: no idea... it happened during an in-place upgrade from 10.5 to 10.6 :)
<momomomomo>
:|
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<momomomomo>
ok, my irc time is up this morning, gotta get stuff done
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<shevy>
AlexRussia no idea, you don't really hear them mention him much at all really
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<shevy>
I still find gcc more convenient for the user than llvm/clang
<shevy>
same thing with cmake vs. autoconf
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<momomomomo>
I'm glad that convenience doesn't drive everything
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<waxjar>
clang sounds cooler than gcc
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<shevy>
convenience is why worse software wins over better software
<shevy>
hi php
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<shevy>
wordpress
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<shevy>
rails
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<AlexRussia>
shevy: php?no, didn't hear :D and...hm, really? i did it
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<AlexRussia>
shevy: sure, is that ;)
<Hanmac>
AlexRussia & shevy for the governments and the "police" every unsuspicious is a a potential suspicious
<AlexRussia>
Hanmac: solving? how? they just executed them all? xD
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<Hanmac>
pst! dont give them ideas!
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<gaussblurinc1>
hi!
<gaussblurinc1>
how to count number of lines of all files in project?
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<pontiki>
find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 wc -l
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<Hanmac>
gaussblurinc1: if you want to differ between code lines and comment lines, you might use some repository and then link your code like that https://www.openhub.net/p/rubywx
<warprobot>
can you advise some articles on building own web server?
<gaussblurinc1>
Hanmac: thanks
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<zlude>
why ruby is so slow running on windows? it's a problem with OS or how ruby is made? I use just mac/linux but i'm curious about windows, because i see some devs saying that it's terrible in windows
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<clarkk>
how can find out why a certain gem is install (ie which other gems depend on it)?
<clarkk>
jhass: is there any way to get full info about a gem?
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<jhass>
are you sure you're reading that correctly?
<clarkk>
in npm for node, this would simply be, npm info package
<jhass>
what's your gem --version
<clarkk>
jhass: 2.2.2
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<clarkk>
I believe I am reading it correctly
<jhass>
and gem dependency -h lists the -R flag?
<clarkk>
yes
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<jhass>
well, quite different outputs for me
<clarkk>
what version of gem are you using?
<jhass>
maybe there are just no reverse dependencies for the gem you're looking at?
<jhass>
2.2.2 too
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<clarkk>
I don't have any idea how to find information about this gem. I don't know where it came from or how to find out about it
<jhass>
what's its name?
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<clarkk>
the name is compass-normalize-1.5. It may have been installed with compass (for sass), but there is no information about it in the compass docs. So I'd rather find out how to work out where it came from via gem, if possible
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<jhass>
so what's the output of gem dependency -R compass-normalize ?
<clarkk>
Gem compass-normalize-1.5
<clarkk>
compass (>= 0.12.0)
<clarkk>
the same as without the switch
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<jhass>
then you have no gem locally installed that depends on it
<jhass>
maybe you removed the gem that once did
<clarkk>
oh ok
<jhass>
or forgot that you or some application you use'd installed it
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<clarkk>
jhass: ok, so I have tried to uninstall it, but it still shows in the installed list
<clarkk>
oh maybe not...
<clarkk>
hold on
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<clarkk>
jhass: it seems to be uninstalled now, but there is a remnant of it at ./gems/ruby-2.1.2/doc/compass-normalize-1.5
<clarkk>
what is the best way to remove that?
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<jhass>
hm, I never cared and see nothing apparent in gem help and so on, so I guess it's safe to just rm -rf it
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<clarkk>
ok, jhass, I will just do that. Thank you for your help
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<clarkk>
jhass: sorry, just one more thing - how would you normally make use of those docs?
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<jhass>
ri for commandline help, gem server for the html docs. I tend to use ? Foo in pry and rubydoc.info the most though
<IceDragon>
clarkk: gem server
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<jhass>
sometimes yard --server for local docs
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<jhass>
or yard server -g for locally installed gems
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<dorei>
any idea what's the time complexity for accessing values on a ruby hash?
<jhass>
should be O(1)
<clarkk>
good tip. Thanks guys - IceDragon and jhass
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<dorei>
jhass: O(1) plus the cost for some_object.hash, right?
<jhass>
yeah sure, which should mostly be constant too
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<czaks>
not O(log(n)) ?
<czaks>
hash would be used for ordering
<czaks>
and not for fetching
<jhass>
well, .hash iterating through the bucket and calling eql? (iirc the right equal method)
<czaks>
remember that you have to rehash a hash on hash change
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<jhass>
the hash is used for fetching to select the right bucket
<czaks>
ok
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<czaks>
good, i thought it is a tree
<jhass>
afaik it's a bucket hash with single linked lists as buckets
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<jhass>
so maybe fetching is not completely O(1) but at least in the average case it should be
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<czaks>
so it's still O(sqrt(n)) for big hashes, no?
<czaks>
and O(n) as the worst complexity
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<czaks>
since one can use all keys with the same hash to construct a hash
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<centrx>
czaks, Good keys have a unique hash, like symbols
<centrx>
collisions are rare
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<czaks>
symbols do, but integers or strings don't
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<Hanmac>
czaks: why does integers does not have a uniq hash?
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<czaks>
well, fixnums may do, but bignums don't
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<czaks>
you can easily craft a collision, no?
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<Hanmac>
czaks: hm ok but what about float with Flonum ? (hm ok thats 64bit specifc)
<Mon_Ouie>
Not to mention collisions happen when obj.hash mod hash_table_capacity is the same for two objects, not just when obj.hash is the same
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<czaks>
is hash_table_capacity chosen dynamically?
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<czaks>
if it's compile time, then it's still a problem
<Mon_Ouie>
From what I got by looking at the code it's a prime number that grows as the hash table does
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<Mon_Ouie>
All the possible candidates are in an array you can find in the code (st.c I believe)
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<nerdfiles>
g s
<nerdfiles>
Oops. Sorry.
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<nerdfiles>
So I have rbenv installed, but it does not recognize any local directory's .ruby-version file.
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<zlude>
I want to complete this challenge, http://pastebin.com/QhBqyf7n but i'm a beginner, someone can tell what can i use for that? i don't want it done, just a 'light in the end of the tunnel'
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<nerdfiles>
Anyone running into issues with rbenv where it cannot find ruby version?
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<cajone>
Guys probably a real noob question here but .. I am trying to use the 'net/telnet' library, which requires that I pass a lot of simple blocks as args to the telnet commands, example @connected.cmd("do_something") {|c| print c}, is there a way I can DRY this up and assign the block to a variable and just pass the variable instead ie instead of the above say prt = {|c| print c} then @connected.cmd("do_something") prt ?
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<tejas-manohar>
is that the rb equivalent to the php command
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<jhass>
tejas-manohar: Please do not crosspost without at least telling so. Experience shows that people don't bother to inform the other channels of provided solutions, therefore it is considered rude.
<tejas-manohar>
okok
<tejas-manohar>
i think i was told to in the other ror channel
<tejas-manohar>
"also you probably want the #ruby channel - this channel is for Rails specific stuff"
<jhass>
surely not to crosspost
<jhass>
and you crossposted to #ruby-lang
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<waxjar>
threading is hard :(
<jhass>
threading isn't, concurrent and parallel programming is ;P
<nedbat>
apeiros: I noticed in particular where it says, "in the Java community, they say that Java is pass-by-value, whereas in the Ruby community, they say that Ruby is pass-by-reference, even though the two languages exhibit the same semantics"
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<shevy>
I don't think ruby exhibits the same semantics as java
<nedbat>
shevy: java has objects and primitives. For objects it's the same, no?
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<shevy>
int gear = 1;
<shevy>
that is java
<shevy>
ruby does not have that
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<jhass>
nedbat: I guess we don't regard "references" as values
<nedbat>
shevy: right, java objects behave like ruby values
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<shevy>
ruby is about the most prototypical non-prototypic OOP language possible
<crome>
but but, in ruby those "values" are objects
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<nedbat>
crome: yes, why is that but but? :)
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<crome>
I'm just amazed by this zoo of programming phrases
<shevy>
well, when you do int gear = 1 in java, what methods does gear respond to?
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<jhass>
shevy: none
<nedbat>
shevy: sorry, I'm trying to say, ignore java's primitives, and looking at java's objects, they behave like Ruby's objects.
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<nedbat>
crome: some in the python world like to say, "python has no variables", which makes me sad
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<crome>
well, what is a variable?
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<nedbat>
crome: a name associated with a value, and the value can change (vary!) during execution
<nedbat>
crome: would you agree?
<crome>
yes, I woould generally agree
<jhass>
I don't
<nedbat>
jhass: what's your definition?
<jhass>
that seems like a constant
<nedbat>
jhass: "the value can change"
<nedbat>
jhass: oh, i guess that's ambiguous.
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<nedbat>
jhass: I meant that the name could refer to different values at different times.
<jhass>
what I mean is that we need to differentiate between changing the value and changing which value the variable points to
<nedbat>
jhass: yes: mutating and rebinding
<jhass>
what I would call changing the reference
<crome>
jhass: but in that case the value of your variable is the referene
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<jhass>
no, I wouldn't say so
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<nedbat>
crome: can't we agree that in "x = 2", the value is 2?
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<jhass>
we don't have a Pointer type in ruby, so it's a bit harder to reason about that fact
<nedbat>
jhass: right, same in Python
<jhass>
the pointer is basically hidden from you (which is a good thing)
<nedbat>
jhass: and therefore, there is no way to refer to a name.
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<jhass>
= changes the pointer, . changes the value
<nedbat>
jhass: C and C++ have a way to refer to a variable, Python and Ruby do not.
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<shevy>
code code code
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<jhass>
shevy: what did you code today?
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
I mostly just fixed some bugs actually
<jhass>
nedbat: if you want to compare to newer, more experimental languages, have a look at crystal, which has the same semantics for variables as ruby but also has a Pointer type to access raw heap memory and structs that are passed by value
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<nedbat>
jhass: interesting, i hadn't heard of crystal.
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<jhass>
interestingly they even introduced empty base classes, Value and Reference, to distinguish the passing types
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<jhass>
which is also plays a role in why I see that definition of call by value you linked as wrong
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<nedbat>
jhass: interesting, how so?
<jhass>
to me call by references copies references on the call, call by value copies the actual value
<jhass>
I know that probably not many people follow that definition, it just makes more sense in my head at least ;)
<nedbat>
jhass: you and I have very different ideas of what call-by-reference means. :)
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<nedbat>
jhass: for me, call-by-reference means I can do "a = 1; func(a)" and have a == 17 afterward
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<nedbat>
jhass: that is, it's about references to variables, not references to values
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<jhass>
I guess I just don't think that references to variables make much sense in an OO context
<crome>
nedbat: in ruby you are actually passing a reference when you do that. it's just fixnums are immutable so you can't change the value of the object referenced by the passed in parameter
<waxjar>
is a value just an object in the context of ruby?
<shevy>
nedbat a = 1 is a bad example in ruby how about a string?
<jhass>
waxjar: yes
<crome>
waxjar: every time
<nedbat>
shevy: the point was to use an immutable value.
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<nedbat>
crome: yes, a reference to a value. In C++, call-by-reference is passing a reference to the variable.
<shevy>
does that make any sense in ruby? ;)
<shevy>
if it were a string object, you could even do object.replace('bla')
<nedbat>
shevy: well, that's my point. call-by-reference (as C++ means in it) isn't available in ruby or python
<nedbat>
s/means in it/means it/
<shevy>
it is only available in C++ because you have access to the memory location or?
<crome>
nedbat: you are using phrases in a very confusing way
<nedbat>
shevy: yes, and pointers to variables, which can be hidden under syntactic sugar.
<nedbat>
crome: sorry, i know these kind of cross-comparisons get very squishy
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<crome>
in order to have what you want to achieve you would have to pass in a pointer to the reference in c++terms
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<shevy>
well
<crome>
which of course has no meaning in ruby
<nedbat>
crome: right, i'm not trying to get that behavior in ruby.
<shevy>
>> array = [1,2,3]; b = array; array << 'yo'; b