<Moca_lambda>
I'm liking you Ruby guys. I've heard of "strength of the ruby community", sure does beat not being able to even find any Django IRC channels
<ace_striker>
Moca_lambda: the more you help..better you become.
<momomomomo>
Moca_lambda: did you try… #django
<Moca_lambda>
True, very true
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<Moca_lambda>
momomomomo I try a lot of channels and they're password blocked for some reason
<h0rrorvacui>
you have to create a name
<momomomomo>
register with authserv or nickserv whichever it is
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<h0rrorvacui>
nickserv
<ununPentium>
sorry to interrupt... while installed latest ruby Failed to configure ripper. It will not be installed. cest what is ripper?
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<Moca_lambda>
havenwood those important questions may go unaswered :P
<h0rrorvacui>
havenwood I like chruby its much faster better than rbenv and rvm. Thanks for turning me on to it.
<havenwood>
h0rrorvacui: nice! :D
<h0rrorvacui>
faster and better *
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<h0rrorvacui>
you and postmodern and the rest are doing a great job
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<h0rrorvacui>
I also think postmodern has the sexiest github of all.
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<postmodern>
h0rrorvacui, the secret is to write a ton of libraries that you then abandon :P
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<Moca_lambda>
haha
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<Moca_lambda>
do any of you Ruby guys speak the language of Python too?
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<h0rrorvacui>
Yeah I'm a fan of python too.
<h0rrorvacui>
I like go-lang as well.
<ddd>
not i. i've dabbled but far from anything fluent.
<ddd>
i speak pigeon in it. thats about it hehe
<Moca_lambda>
I've been meaning to look at Dart.
<ddd>
(considering im trying to talk python that about sums it up <grin>)
<Moca_lambda>
Python is probably one of the most well-maintained languages over the last 20 years
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<ddd>
h0rrorvacui: if i wasn't involved with rvm, and wanted a minimalistic ruby changer, definitely definitely chruby would be my choice. glad to see another user of it
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<ddd>
keeps it around!
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<ddd>
Moca_lambda: lots of the higher end colleges using it too
<Moca_lambda>
I need some free Rails hosting. Darn, openshift failed me
<ddd>
like stanford, mit, caltech etc
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<Moca_lambda>
caltech is the place where a lot of software engineers that work at google/apple/facebook studied ta?
<Moca_lambda>
*at?
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<ddd>
there and mit. used to work for a company entirely (except lil ol me) staffed by cal-tech and mit grads. several went on to work for at least 2 of the biz you named
<Moca_lambda>
ddd where did you study?
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<h0rrorvacui>
I'm from a no-name uni.
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<h0rrorvacui>
Hopefully it doesn't matter. I'm also not a CS degree, but CIS.
<ddd>
Moca_lambda: same as h0rrorvacui. community colleges
<ddd>
same in the no-name part
<ddd>
Central Texas College, at Maysville Community right now
<Moca_lambda>
no matter how talented a person is, the name-brand some colleges carry is important
<ddd>
yeah
<h0rrorvacui>
I'm from Jacksonvile State University.
<h0rrorvacui>
I guess should say I attended.
<Moca_lambda>
Both sound like football colleges
<ddd>
i'm not talented, i'm good, but i'm no DHH or anything
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<Moca_lambda>
over, david hannemeier
<ddd>
A better choice of comparison is I'm no Yukihiro :)
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<Moca_lambda>
I think they built rails internally to build their software applications
<ddd>
DHH is not universally considered 'skilled'. Yukihiro is hehe
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<ddd>
yeah they did, then they cut it out and packaged it
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<ddd>
iirc, they originally used it for basecamp (don't quote me on that)
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<Moca_lambda>
ironic that from rails came a $25 billion company called twitter
<ddd>
and a mammoth called github
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<h0rrorvacui>
github too
<ddd>
even my wife knows who github is
<h0rrorvacui>
yeah what he said
<ddd>
she doesn't code at ALL
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<ddd>
doesn't instagram or pinterest use rails too?
<ddd>
could have sworn i heard that
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<ddd>
doesn't matter. none would run if it wasn't for the beloved ruby at the core :)
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<Moca_lambda>
and Django and Python have DisQus
<ddd>
i'm sort of torn on if i like disqus
<ddd>
my sites using it hang more often than not waiting for disqus
<Moca_lambda>
I noticed that too. Sites load slower with it.
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<h0rrorvacui>
I know pinintrest uses backbone.js so they maybe using rails behind the scenes
<ddd>
yeah. the idea rocks. the implementation.. not so much
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<ddd>
h0rrorvacui: ah thats good to know
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<Moca_lambda>
ddd they're running on like +1 million websites or something
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<ddd>
Moca_lambda: disqus? yeah, so? they've been throwing tons of hardware at the issue. its all you ever hear is they're upgrading hardware all over the place
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<ddd>
if they're upgrading as is said, then the problems gotta kick back to the code. least how i see it
<Moca_lambda>
try livefyre then
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<ddd>
not heard of them
<Moca_lambda>
tech crunch made a big issue about it when they switched to livefyre
<ddd>
ahh competitor
<h0rrorvacui>
I know hulu used rails at one point idk if they still do.
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<ddd>
oh damn. i'm disappointed i don't know lifefyre. they aquired realtidbits and them i know
<Moca_lambda>
Rails can really get you a top paying job it seems
<ddd>
yeah hulu still uses rails
<ddd>
truly hacked up version but still
<Moca_lambda>
Does Rails use the same principle as Django? A single big app is made up of a combination of small apps?
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<ddd>
well, a lot of the gems that rails uses aren't full apps themselves
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<ddd>
more like it uses a lot of glue libraries. like activerecord, etc
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<Moca_lambda>
oh libraries
<ddd>
truth be told i think ramaze is a better rails than rails
<Moca_lambda>
Django has those 2, but the principle behind it is that each small app will eventually equate to the webapp itself
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<Moca_lambda>
ddd the smaller frameworks may be better than the rails one, but its the community that drives people to it
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<ddd>
yeah no. you have railsties, which lets you integrate rails 'engines' (like enginex)
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<ddd>
Moca_lambda: yeah thats true. manveru wrote ramaze. he's an excellent coder. ramaze is strong, just not the community that rails has
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<Moca_lambda>
ddd have you built anything with rails?
<ddd>
i'm not a js guy, but i've read more people using like angularJS and nodejs. i know node has an excellent community
<ddd>
yeah
<ddd>
more worked on existing projects than written anything from scratch
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<ddd>
i'm writing something from scratch now, but its not tech oriented. its for a national website for animal rescue transporters
<Moca_lambda>
I was wondering if it was true that you could build a rails app in a weekend.
<Moca_lambda>
If you're going to AngularJS route, look into EmberJS too.
<h0rrorvacui>
definately
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<ddd>
my wife and I are involved with the Kentucky SPCA. I'm the Senior Animal Cruelty Investigator for them. We also have our own 5013(c) rescue. We've noticed, and the ASPCA has talked with us over, transporters don't have a place to register to transport dogs from shelters to adopters
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<ddd>
so we got the idea to write, and the backing from the ASPCA to, a transporter registration site. people can register nationally to transport.
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<Moca_lambda>
that's cool. You're actually addressing a real problem
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<h0rrorvacui>
how does that work? transporters and adopters?
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<h0rrorvacui>
Does someone adopt from afar?
<ddd>
rescues work with shelters to get adopters. a puller goes to the shelter and gets the animal(s). the rescue transports to vets for shots and spay/neutering. then to a foster or directly to an adopter
<ddd>
yeah
<ddd>
we adopted 2 rottie pups ourselves from NYC
<ddd>
i live in KY
<xibalba>
ddd, you're doing awesome work man. keep it up
<h0rrorvacui>
That sounds awesome. I would love to do charitable sites like that.
<xibalba>
my buddy does what you've mentioned above for cats with the FCC (feral cat coalition) here in san diego
<ddd>
heh thanks. just trying to do something useful
<ddd>
my coding skills need some work, but they'll get there. this thing is going to be monsterous
<ddd>
xibalba: yeah we just instituted a Feral Cat program. Part of our Spay/Neuter program
<xibalba>
awesome, if you need some help getting it off the ground in san diego i can contact my buddy
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<ddd>
we just had an article run in the Maysville paper and iirc the Independent Ledger about our cans program
<h0rrorvacui>
Someone needs to make a website that rails hackers come together and hack a site up for non-profits, and charities. Thats is if something doesn't already exist.
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<ddd>
we get people to donate cans and we recycle them. all the money goes to spaying and neutering animals
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<xibalba>
h0rrorvacui, let me know if it doesn't exist
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<ddd>
xibalba: yeah that would be awesome. I'm the only one writing code on it right now so its going to be a bit. I'm doing it after I get home from college every day and weekends.
<xibalba>
nice, studying comp sci?
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<ddd>
no actually. I'm studying to be a diesel mechanic :)
<ddd>
degree in Diesel Technology
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<ddd>
working on big rigs, construction equipment and ships
<Moca_lambda>
horror those sites do exist
<h0rrorvacui>
I've found hackersforcharity.org
<h0rrorvacui>
but its not exactly a hackathon
<xibalba>
nice i like disel, bought a jetta tdi
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<h0rrorvacui>
ddd I've a lot of friends who got degress in that and are working at ANAD for the goverment
<ddd>
2nd half of the degree will be the engineering side (designing and implementing diesel engines). the way the engineering program works you become a mechanic (certified), you work for companies the school picks so you get hands on with the engines, then you go back to the classrooms in the 2nd year to start taking what you saw and make it work in designs
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<ddd>
h0rrorvacui: yeah interesting idea for a degree. one thing that attracted me to the program
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<ddd>
we get to use autocad and maya to implement ideas with. pretty cool
<ddd>
just doesn't leave a lot of time to code, especially with the family hehe
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<ddd>
my wife and I have been discussing me dropping out and writing this site (because we plan to offer actual applications that integrate with the site's backend)
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<ddd>
we can get grants so we can attach it to the 5013(c) and i can draw a stipend while I work on all of it
<xibalba>
i wouldn't drop out
<xibalba>
just consume more caffine =P
<ddd>
plus possibly get a couple more coders
<h0rrorvacui>
My father is a big fan of bourbon and he just did a tour of kentucky distilleries.
<h0rrorvacui>
He said kentucky was nice.
<ddd>
hahah, dude, i drink coffee and anything caffinated like people drink milk or kool aid
<h0rrorvacui>
He did the Kentucky Bourbon Trail.
<ddd>
yeah i love it here. i don't like big cities. after i got out of the service, i got really nervous in the city. always checking peoples' hands and chest. always on edge, on guard. started jackin me up. we moved here to rural kentucky. things have been *so* much calmer since doing that.
<ddd>
and the landscape is beautiful
<ddd>
yeah the KBT is a definite do if you tour KY
<h0rrorvacui>
He has done it twice now. Hell, he has been to about every major distillery in the US.
<ddd>
if he likes trails and stuff tell him to check out Carter Caves
<ddd>
that and Mammouth Cave
<ddd>
largest cave system in the US
<h0rrorvacui>
That sounds like something I'd enjoy, I don't drink so I declined the trip.
<h0rrorvacui>
That and I couldn't afford it.
<ddd>
i love it (the caves). relaxing to just hit the trail
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<ddd>
and of course we're the horse capital of the country :) so there's plenty of riding if you want to do that too
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<ddd>
anyways, i'm trying to refresh myself on rspec, rails, and ruby after taking a several month vacation from writing.
<ddd>
so i should get back to the books and the code.
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<ddd>
transporters plus isn't going to write itself :)
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<h0rrorvacui>
yeah, good luck
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<ddd>
oh the hard part is when its finally written and its actually used. the goal is national, so there's scale to consider
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<ddd>
which means shitloads of revamping of code, and figuring out backend needs. thats going to be the real issue
<xibalba>
scale sideways
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<xibalba>
lots of small app servers + load balancer in the front
<ddd>
like piranha or ldirectord?
<ddd>
been considering that
<xibalba>
whatever flavor you like, F5, nginx
<xibalba>
w/virtualized you can just build a bunch of small app servers and scale easily
<xibalba>
add in chef for configuration too, if you need it
<xibalba>
voila
<ddd>
yeah, once its written, i'm going to approach digitalocean about it
<xibalba>
pfff
<xibalba>
dont use those ass clowns
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<xibalba>
dont buy the SSD hype
<ddd>
i don't consider them assclowns. i use them for my own stuff, and i know a few bigger folks using them without issues
<xibalba>
when they lose a box they lose your data. their backups run at inconsistent intervals
<ddd>
no no, not just cause of the ssd stuff. they're fairly well put together for what they do. simpler than amazon and almost as stable
<xibalba>
they're boxes are not clusters, each box is its own, no HA in between
<xibalba>
'almost as stable as [amazon]' , bad reference
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<ddd>
hahaha touche
<xibalba>
=D
<xibalba>
they're not bad
<xibalba>
i just wouldn't put stuff on there that needs to scale
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<ddd>
i want to work with the smaller more approachable team because we grow together. the larger guys don't care two figs
<h0rrorvacui>
yeboot you just came on during a lull
<yeboot>
h0rrorvacui if I did, can you tell me the timestamp of my join?
<yeboot>
:P
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<h0rrorvacui>
idk were you idling?
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<yeboot>
have been for a while, I have a copy of the ruby programming language, so most of my questions get answered before coming to IRC
<yeboot>
the book, I mean. I mostly ask in-here about libraries or stuff like rbenv
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<h0rrorvacui>
Just bring up a political topic and then watch the comments scroll.
<h0rrorvacui>
:P
<h0rrorvacui>
like one about a three letter agency
<yeboot>
political topic: Ruby is part of Japan's efforts to prove it's the best about everything. NSA
<h0rrorvacui>
lol
<h0rrorvacui>
Everyone say hello they're watching us now.
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<wald0>
how to uninstall a gem ?
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<Lewix>
wald0: gem uninstall?
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<wald0>
"thin" has not a good name... it takes even more memory than the mysql process :/
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<wald0>
its normal that "thin" (ruby server) takes so much memory usage
<wald0>
?
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<sevenseacat>
define 'so much'
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<wald0>
100 mb
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<wald0>
of only "thin" server loaded
<sevenseacat>
thats not a lot
<wald0>
by loading it
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<wald0>
heh, i was in dreamhost VPS before where you pay 15 bucks for 300 mb of ram, after to install a wordpress with caution to not reach 200 (and so will have reboots due to that overusage), 100 is a lot :)
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<sevenseacat>
im not sure that sentence made any sense
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<wald0>
sevenseacat: yeah, very expensive and no support for their vps, also very slow... im very happy with the shared service but the vps is crap (me moving!)
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<wald0>
unicorn, thin, rails, sinatra.... why so many ? lol
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<sevenseacat>
well you're comparing two app servers and two ruby frameworks
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<sevenseacat>
two web frameworks, no less
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<wald0>
so... "gem install bundler" in debian installs bundler in /var/lib/gems, and "bundle install" too, right? how i can install everything as user to avoid conflicts with other users?
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<sevenseacat>
depends on how you installed ruby
<sevenseacat>
and rubygems
<wald0>
actually i just apt-get install them (debian wheezy), but i dont know if is a better idea to also install them as user too
<sevenseacat>
then you cant avoid conflicts with other users if you're installing them system-wide
<wald0>
thats why i want to install all as user
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<wald0>
i started by using only "ruby ruby-dev rubygems" from apt-get
<wald0>
this can do conflicts to other users ?
<sevenseacat>
so look into any of the ruby version managers (rvm, rbenv, chruby, etc.) as they all have single-user install methods
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<Guest53019>
ruby is shit
<Guest53019>
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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<bnagy>
;_;
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<Guest53019>
CUNTS
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<bnagy>
I may faint
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<emocakes>
make it stop
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<emocakes>
its not true Guest53019
<emocakes>
ITS NOT TRUE
<Guest53019>
Rada
<Guest53019>
Radar bitchfag
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<bnagy>
wrong channel, sorry
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<emocakes>
I wont disagree with that Guest53019
<bnagy>
you want #trollingonrails
<emocakes>
but Radar is rubyonrails
<emocakes>
so yah...
<emocakes>
radar != ruby, thankgod
<bnagy>
give them our love though!
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<Radar>
He's banned from there.
<Radar>
For this kind of shit behaviour.
<Radar>
Lame ass trolls
<emocakes>
im banned from there as well Radar
<emocakes>
i offered rice to poor indian families
<emocakes>
:(
<Guest53019>
Radar you son of ugly bitch
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<Guest53019>
i bet your mother was a whore in her early teens. Just sucking cock after cock until she got stoned and got inpregnated by some dude at freshmen party.
<Guest53019>
Radar thats your life story, dont hide it , you ugly cocksucker.
<emocakes>
Guest53019, he's australian, no freshmen
<emocakes>
just bogans
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<Guest53019>
just niggers
<Guest53019>
HAHHAHAHAH
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<Guest53019>
radar you crazy ass nigger
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<scottmiao>
Hello, world!
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<Guest53019>
fuck your mom!!
<emocakes>
yawn
* Guest53019
farts
<Guest53019>
radar bitchfag
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<LadyRainicorn>
Rainicorns can fly and go through walls and such.
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<LadyRainicorn>
We are much more magical than unicorns.
<jrobeson>
i see
<LadyRainicorn>
That one just has hair dye.
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<LadyRainicorn>
ElasticElephant: That looks very much like a scam, though it seems like the scam is on the partner companies more than the graduates.
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<jrobeson>
i wonder how that stat compares to other bootcamps
<LadyRainicorn>
I am fairly certain you will not be a good coder, but it is possible they could find you a job.
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<jrobeson>
i've seen some get pretty decent reviews.. although only for hiring juniors
<LadyRainicorn>
I'd be curious to see how it goes.
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<LadyRainicorn>
Notice how much their average fee is.
<ElasticElephant>
Well, that's probably all the average graduate wants lol
<LadyRainicorn>
More than US$16000
<ElasticElephant>
You don't pay if you dont get a job
<LadyRainicorn>
It sounds like they're making shady deals with corporate people.
<LadyRainicorn>
Also, what happens if you get fired?
<LadyRainicorn>
This is one of those read-the-fine-print-very-fucking-carefully deals.
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<ElasticElephant>
I agree, I agree. They have a '"sub 5% acceptance rate"
<pontiki>
what's the one that costs like $12,000?
<ElasticElephant>
There's Dev Bootcamp
<ElasticElephant>
thats like 12000
<pontiki>
that's it
<pontiki>
idk
<pontiki>
they may work for some people?
<pontiki>
i have a formal education in CS
<DanBoy>
theres some that take a percentage of what you make after you get a job for X amount of time i've heard
<pontiki>
but it hasn't been as useful as my mainly self-taught experience
<ElasticElephant>
How helpful was that coding wise?
<pontiki>
ElasticElephant: are you asking me?
<DanBoy>
dude 12 grand vs the cost of a few books
<ElasticElephant>
yeah
<pontiki>
not that useful
<pontiki>
although they did teach us some useful skills, mainly it was theory
<ElasticElephant>
well i guess they preach teaching practicality vs theoretical cs stuff
<pontiki>
i think it can be useful to understand algorithms, data structures, and so on
<DanBoy>
did you go through chemistry and physics and calculus?
<pontiki>
DanBoy: me?
<DanBoy>
ya
<pontiki>
yes
<pontiki>
6 semesters of calc
<pontiki>
4 semesters of physics
<ElasticElephant>
Sounds rough lol
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<pontiki>
1 semester of chem, as i opted for chem for dummies
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<DanBoy>
would you agree that chem and physics at least hasn't helped your coding skills
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<DanBoy>
or has nothing to do with your work
<ElasticElephant>
haha I was just going to say that lol
<pontiki>
actually, i don't know if i could separate any of my education out specifically
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<pontiki>
everything i learn informs something else
<ElasticElephant>
It seems like the college style education is a lot of fluff
<DanBoy>
im all for education, if we had enough time i'd go through it all myself
<pontiki>
however, coding qua coding, i learnt most by my student slave labour job
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<DanBoy>
but chem has nothing to do with coding unless of course your coding something that has to do with chem
<pontiki>
chem is my worst subject area
<pontiki>
so i can't say how applicable it might be
<DanBoy>
they'r treating CS as a traditional science forcing you to learn quite a bit you won't use
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<DanBoy>
once again im not anti education
<pontiki>
no one has to go to uni
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<pontiki>
but if you really just want to write code and nothing else, pick up a book
<ElasticElephant>
were u educated in the us
<LadyRainicorn>
Try Ruby Koans.
<LadyRainicorn>
They are neat.
<pontiki>
if you want to understand when to use particular algrithms, data structures, understand how to write a compiler, and operating system, micro-program a CPU...
<LadyRainicorn>
Code Academy actually looks less like a scam and more like a gifted program from what I've found through Google.
<LadyRainicorn>
Err, App Academy
<pontiki>
maybe an engineering degree would bootstrap you into that faster than just acquiring the experience
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<pontiki>
but i didn't attend uni to learn to be a coder
<ElasticElephant>
Yeah, I ask because I got accepted there lol
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<LadyRainicorn>
Well, try it and see what you think (after very closely scrutinizing any contracts)
<pontiki>
also, i took 6 years for my bachelors because i wanted a liberal arts education in addition to the engineering educatino
<ElasticElephant>
Oh yeah, I know what you mean
<pontiki>
the key point, perhaps, being that going to uni provides both the opportunity and the motivation to focus on learning
<LadyRainicorn>
It looks like the main benefit is the employment network tbh.
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<pontiki>
of uni?
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<LadyRainicorn>
App Academy
<pontiki>
ah
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<ElasticElephant>
Well that's why I'd go lol
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<ElasticElephant>
The real learning will probably be when you're employed
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<ElasticElephant>
well if you do get employed
<DanBoy>
you'll be forced to
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<pontiki>
even that's not a given
<DanBoy>
but then if your only out to get a job and don't really care you'll always end up doing the minimum
<pontiki>
there are lots of people employed that don't learn how to code
<DanBoy>
which is what the coding schools look like to me
<pontiki>
and just repeat the same mistakes over and over
<ElasticElephant>
not necessarily, you're given the opportunity to learn on the job (if you get one) and that's the most practical learning
<ElasticElephant>
at least i think
<pontiki>
of course not necessarily
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<pontiki>
that was where i started
<DanBoy>
if they put up with you long enough
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<pontiki>
going throught a bootcamp isn't going to guarantee anything
<LadyRainicorn>
App Academy in particular with a 5% acceptance rate seems to have either figured out how to select reasonably ok coders before they have experience or convince employers they can.
<DanBoy>
i don't see how you can be a dev in 4 weeks
<ElasticElephant>
true, well they are hiring these people consistently so it must be working for them
<ElasticElephant>
on both ends
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<pontiki>
there's no board of registry. anyone who writes a line of code can call themselves a developer...
<DanBoy>
there may be a huge demand for rails devs right now but in the future you'll always have to learn new things
<DanBoy>
and if you goto a code school you just learn rails
<pontiki>
too right
<DanBoy>
and probably basic ruby
<DanBoy>
and thats it
<ElasticElephant>
well that's with anything
<LadyRainicorn>
Also, the income looks high, but after their fees, it will be around 10% below average for the area.
<DanBoy>
but if you just want a job and do the minimum
<pontiki>
so, i learnt fortran, cobol, lisp, pascal and assembler at uni
<DanBoy>
your in trouble
<pontiki>
i use none of those languages except lisp now
<pontiki>
since then, c, c++, perl, php, ruby, and a few others
<DanBoy>
ya and i actually think thats cool to learn all that
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<pontiki>
if i only knew one language and one framework, i doubt i'd be worth anything at all
<DanBoy>
my point is that the code schools for rails just train you as a one trick pony who wants a job making 90k a year
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<DanBoy>
and when times change they have to learn new things they won't be prepared
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<ElasticElephant>
yes and no
<LadyRainicorn>
*70k
<ElasticElephant>
it really depends
<ElasticElephant>
on the student
<LadyRainicorn>
(They take 20% of your income.)
<pontiki>
the only real answer in the universe is "it depends"
<DanBoy>
ya
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<DanBoy>
it depends on the person
<pontiki>
you aren't saying anything different than i have
<LadyRainicorn>
Except for photons.
<pontiki>
wave or particle?
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<pontiki>
"it depends"
<LadyRainicorn>
Propogation speed in a vaccum of course.
<LadyRainicorn>
;p
<LadyRainicorn>
This is basically a head hunting agency with a fancy gimmick imo.
<ElasticElephant>
it seems like a win-win
<ElasticElephant>
for the school and student
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<pontiki>
in that, they at least have a gimmick that benefits the individual
<pontiki>
which does put them far beyond other head hunters
<LadyRainicorn>
Well, sort of.
<LadyRainicorn>
I am fairly sure the education offered is not beyond what you would get with a month or two of dedicated self study.
<LadyRainicorn>
So definitely not worth $20,000.
<pontiki>
much better than being asked to rewrite your resume with lies about your experience so they can submit you to their latest client
<pontiki>
oh, maybe not, except providing a stick to actually do the work
<ElasticElephant>
but you don't get the employment network on your own
<pontiki>
that's highly individual in its effectiveness
<pontiki>
pfft
<pontiki>
you can
<LadyRainicorn>
But, you are getting job placement into a San Fransisco based coding job for US$70,000/year.
<oddalot>
I went to App Academy
<oddalot>
just graduated
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<LadyRainicorn>
oddalot: How was it?
<ElasticElephant>
I just got accepted
<oddalot>
Pretty good I guess, although I don't really have anything to compare it too
<DanBoy>
books man are a lot cheaper once again
<LadyRainicorn>
We're just speculating based on Google.
<oddalot>
I think they are trying to add more javascript now, and I think that's the direction sit's heading
<LadyRainicorn>
Did you get a job?
<oddalot>
Not yet, although I've had some bites
<oddalot>
I just graduated a couple of weeks ago though
<oddalot>
Technically the course isn't even over, because they extended it to 12 weeks
<LadyRainicorn>
If you get rejected by their placement network and find a job on your own, are you still obligated to pay them?
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<oddalot>
but I couldn't afford to live near the city anymore
<ElasticElephant>
do they provide a tuition refund if you go with one of their hiring partners?
<oddalot>
They don't really have a 'placement network'
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<oddalot>
There is no tuition, besides the deposit
<LadyRainicorn>
How much was the deposit?
<oddalot>
oh, yes, i believe there is
<oddalot>
but i wouldn't hold my breate about that lol
<oddalot>
3,000 dollar deposit
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<oddalot>
breath*
<LadyRainicorn>
Ah, has that been refunded post-graduation?
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<oddalot>
No, I think they wait like 6 months to give that back to you, although I'm not expecting it back realy
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<ElasticElephant>
yeah, well i got accepted and im still on the fence how expensive was just living in San Fra?n
<ElasticElephant>
*fran
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<oddalot>
I lived in Berkeley, payed like 1850 for a two bedroom. With two roommates was like 625 a mojnth
<oddalot>
San Francisco is ridiculous. Of course a lot of people lived at App Academy. But I wouldn't do that, unless you are completely broke.
<ElasticElephant>
how long was it from Berkeley to the school? and they lived there lol
<oddalot>
Some people seemed to like it, but I don't know. Maybe if I was still in my 20s
<oddalot>
Berkeley is 30 minutes away by Bart.
<devians>
hey guys, newb question from a sysadmin. I am deploying an app and running bundle install, and its installing to vendor/ rather than the gem path?
<ElasticElephant>
kinda far, average age?
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<oddalot>
I would recommend app academy though if you are smart. I think that was my problem. I was surely one of the dumber one's there.
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<oddalot>
Average age seemed like around 23 maybe
<LadyRainicorn>
devians: bundle -v
<ElasticElephant>
well im 18 and i think it would be cool being a bit younger than most
<devians>
1.3.5, ruby 2.0.0-p247
<oddalot>
my roommate was 18
<oddalot>
but he was like a super genius, it was kind of a waste of his time
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<ElasticElephant>
was there any advantage being younger?
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<oddalot>
They made the younger people pay up front I heard.
<oddalot>
Don't know if that's your case
<ElasticElephant>
is that so?
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<oddalot>
Age really didn't matter. Was a pretty fair environment.
<LadyRainicorn>
Sounds dubious.
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<ElasticElephant>
haven't heard that yet, I just got my acceptance letter but paying upfront sounds daunting lol
<oddalot>
There were younger people their too. Really, I think the only thing for a younger person would be the City of SF itself. It can be intimidating at times, especially since AppAcademy is in a rough neighborhood
<devians>
sorry, LadyRainicorn, forgot to highlight, ruby 2.0.0-p247
<DanBoy>
good night everyone
<devians>
argh
<oddalot>
there*
<LadyRainicorn>
ok, hmm.
<devians>
LadyRainicorn bundle -v gives 1.3.5
<ElasticElephant>
night, and so people actually lived there?
<oddalot>
I wrote a blog about it. Although I quit writing it weeks before we finished
<oddalot>
oddalot.tumblr.com
<LadyRainicorn>
Are there any path: declarations in Gemfile?
<oddalot>
Sure. there were probably like 10-20 people living there I think
<ElasticElephant>
would you ind posting the link?
<ElasticElephant>
mind* and how's that like?
<ElasticElephant>
living there i mean
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<LadyRainicorn>
devians: Ah, apparently running install with the --deploymet flag causes that behavior.
<oddalot>
I mean, it's doable. But seemed kind of depressing if you ask me. Some people seemed to like it. Again, the neigborhood is really sketchy, so I prefer to live somewhere that is safer.
<oddalot>
anyway, maybe i should take convo somewhere else, isn't really ruby related now
<devians>
LadyRainicorn ah, right!
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<pontiki>
ElasticElephant: hey, i just want to say, don't take anything i said as discouraging you to go. by all means, go, get experience at something like that. at 18, practically nothing you do will be a waste of time and effort
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<oddalot>
Personally, seems like having a CS degree in San Francisco is worth it's weight in gold.
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<oddalot>
But going to a coding school appears to work too.
<oddalot>
But employers I have seen love CS degrees.
<ElasticElephant>
oddalot, would you mind pming me. And, pontiki, no offense taken lol I just appreciate the discussion :)
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<Nilium>
Worth its weight in gold.. what's a degree weigh?
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<Nilium>
I've got one here, but it's not a CS degree, so maybe the paper's artificially heavy for those
<emocakes>
worth its weight in bit coin
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<sevenseacat>
Nilium: CS degrees arent especially heavy.
<Nilium>
NaN
<LadyRainicorn>
devians: bundle install --system
<sevenseacat>
somewhat thicker than standard paper but still probably only a dollar in gold.
<devians>
LadyRainicorn this is a prod environment, so after some reading, i do prefer that behaviour
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<devians>
LadyRainicorn I just need to configure passenger to know where to look
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<pontiki>
oddalot: many employers' HR folk put a CS degree as a requirement because they think that will screen out unskilled ppl. the actual hiring managers generally know better. but the most important thing is knowing people, working a network, and so on
<pontiki>
the thing is, most job opportunities are never advertised
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<pontiki>
and never recruited for
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<oddalot>
Sounds about right, although angel.co is a good resource. Especially in the bay area.
<Nilium>
Also, try not to obsess over jobs in and around Silicon Valley.
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<Nilium>
Silicon Valley and startup culture and all that is pretty immensely bizarre and it's not the norm
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<oddalot>
Yeah, but there is a TON of VC tech money in the bay area
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<oddalot>
probably what makes it so bizarre
<pontiki>
doesn't mean you'll see any of it
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<Nilium>
It's great work if you find a place you like, obviously, but you can do that elsewhere too, and probably with less worshipping startups
<oddalot>
probably not, but it does mean people are more liberal about hiring new workers
<pontiki>
... lolwut?
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<pontiki>
with the absolute *glut* of tech workers?
<pontiki>
the only liberalness is that they can pay new workers crap
<Nilium>
Finding a job sucks in general, you're boned no matter what you do on that front.
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<LadyRainicorn>
Yeah fuck jobs.
<oddalot>
Yeah, well, it could always be worse
<pontiki>
could be snowing
<pontiki>
oh it is
<Nilium>
It's snowing here.
<oddalot>
at least were not in soviet russia or something
<lewellyn>
in soviet russia, you make the weather cold.
<pontiki>
do you know how many russian coders there are?
<pontiki>
TONS
<LadyRainicorn>
In Soviet Russia, you don't find a job, the job finds you.
<Nilium>
Also, jobs are good, fuck finding them.
<LadyRainicorn>
(Hey, that doesn't sound that bad...)
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<LadyRainicorn>
pontiki: If there is one thing I have learned, there are always tons of Russians.
<LadyRainicorn>
But everyone fucking hates Russians
<Nilium>
Depends on which job finds you.
<Nilium>
O_o
<ayaz>
Aye
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<Nilium>
I don't hate the Russians. I just hate Ukrainians.
<Nilium>
They got a cool sounding name and I'm displeased about it.
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<LadyRainicorn>
Tajikstan has a cooler name.
<pontiki>
SALTS, LadyRainicorn
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<LadyRainicorn>
SALTS?
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<LadyRainicorn>
Slovakian Anteaters Love Talking Shit?
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<LadyRainicorn>
ElasticElephant: Do it with this.
<pontiki>
whoa, cool
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<jrobeson>
<3
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<ddd>
https://gist.github.com/ddd/7784325 - My new and improved BottlesOfBeer.rb which signals my time to go off to bed. (Bug fixes and improvements free of charge)
<sevenseacat>
now i have the song stuck in my head
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* jrobeson
watches out for the ElasticElephants and Rainicorns, and seven sea sailing cats
<ElasticElephant>
HAHA
<jrobeson>
and mice !
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<jrobeson>
good night silly peoples
<ElasticElephant>
night
<pontiki>
gnite jr
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<jlebrech>
how can I auto login with omniauth and doorkeeper? I control both apps but one has to ask the other app if there's someone logged in and pull that user.
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* xfce-x64
Ruby or Perl or Python for Easiest FastCGI for a newbie ?
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<dseitz>
Just pick one
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<dseitz>
We suggest #ruby :)
<pontiki>
you left out PHP
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<xfce-x64>
Advantages of Ruby over others?
<pontiki>
none
<cheeti>
hi any body help to develop rails 4 database in mongodb
<pontiki>
we just like it a lot
<xfce-x64>
lol
<pontiki>
cheeti: no one will help you if you can't follow simple instructions
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<pontiki>
[20131204|0239.46] < cheeti> hi how to change my database to mongodb i am using rails 4?
<pontiki>
[20131204|0240.15] < pontiki> cheeti: ask in #rubyonrails
<dseitz>
Good exposure to web-apps in different langauges
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<LadyRainicorn>
Excluding PHP, which will rot your brain and kill you painfully.
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<ddd>
oh, actually I found a subtle bug in my last rendition. I've fixed it. https://gist.github.com/ddd/7784325 and with THAT I'm going to bed! hehe
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<dseitz>
lol
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<dseitz>
If the bug was having more beer than alloted; I consider this a regression
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<ddd>
no on 2 beers it said 1 bottles of beer on the wall, even though it correctly said 1 bottle of beer for count == 1.
<ddd>
suprised no one caught that ;)
<ddd>
but it all works perfectly now, so everyone get drunk on me while I go sleep it all off
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<ElasticElephant>
night
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<ElasticElephant>
everyone
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<pontiki>
now taking bets that ddd will be back after they think of another bug
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<slap_stick>
hm could someone explain to me why this happens: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7785043 if cmp_h is initiated and created when it is called, if iti s only called once, i.e. the values dont contain a hash, then it is fine, but if it is called again (they are hashes), it creates a new object, but i dont get how the print knows about the old and ne
<slap_stick>
w when it's scope is within the same define
<slap_stick>
surely cmp_h is the same one throughout the whole define
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<Hanmac>
slap_stick: you need to look closer, they are not the same object, there are different object_ids "18594000" vs "18594060"
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<slap_stick>
because the prints come AFTER the object is initiated
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<slap_stick>
and the object is initiated at the very beginning of the call of the function
<Hanmac>
m whats the problem? the cmp_h works excactly was it should ?
<slap_stick>
i dont know how i can explain myself better?
<slap_stick>
i dont understand how the prints can print the two objects that get initiated, when the prints come AFTER it is initiated
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<Hanmac>
or is your problem that the second hash has a lower object_id than the first?
<slap_stick>
oh
<KevinSjoberg>
Ruby's round method can round to nearest hundred by doing round(-2). I want to do exactly this but always round down. Any ideas?
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<Hanmac>
KevinSjoberg: BigDecimal and Rational can ceil(2) but other Numeric can not ... (interesting)
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<slap_stick>
Hanmac: no my problem is they are different
<slap_stick>
i understand why there are 2 but i dont understand how it knows
<Hanmac>
slap_stick: each call "interate" create its own cmp_h object ... if you dont want that you need to give that object as extra parameter
<KevinSjoberg>
Hanmac: I noticed that as well. floor does not take any arguments.
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<KevinSjoberg>
Basically I want to do x.floor(-2).
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<slap_stick>
oh yeh
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<Hanmac>
KevinSjoberg: hm you can try x.to_r.floor(-2)
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<Hanmac>
KevinSjoberg: or using Bigdecimal: BigDecimal(0.125,2) #=> '0.13'
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<KevinSjoberg>
Hanmac: .to_r.floor(-2) seems to do it.
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<Hanmac>
yeah i notice that BigDecimal(0.125,2) does not the same as i wanted
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<KevinSjoberg>
Hanmac: Jesus, if it's less than 100 it returns 0.
<KevinSjoberg>
I'll have to do it manually, I guess.
<Hanmac>
are you sure that you want "-2" and not "2" as floor agument?
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<KevinSjoberg>
Hanmac: Well, I want to 5 to be 5, but 780 to be 700.
<Hanmac>
use this: x < 100 ? x : x.to_r.floor(-2)
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<KevinSjoberg>
Yep, I did it like that. :)
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<Hanmac>
also possible;P x.to_r.floor(x < 100 ? 0 : -2)
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<shevy>
why does .floor not take arguments?
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<Hanmac>
shevy that is the question
<maasha>
.oO(coffee)
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* maasha
goes for c.
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<maasha>
ah better
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<shevy>
when I subclass
<shevy>
I often did this:
<shevy>
def initialize(i)
<shevy>
super(i)
<shevy>
the very next line being a call to super
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<shevy>
but can the call to super happen at a later time as well?
<shevy>
(inside that method)
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<Hanmac>
shevy yes, you can also do: def meth(i); ...; super; ...; super(); ...; super(i+1); ...; end (the ...; stands for more possible code lines)
<Hanmac>
shevy: for easier subclassing/aliasing i also did: def meth(*args); _sub_meth_two(*args).inject(_sub_meth_one(*args).inject(1,:*),:+);end or something similar funny so its easier to subclass the sub methods than the main meth
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<Hanmac>
shevy: infomation about "super" super without () uses the same parameters than the current method, super with () uses specially the ones you give the methods (in your sample "super(i)" and "super" are similar but "super()" is not)
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<lupine>
silly ruby
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<inad922>
hello
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<inad922>
Is there a ruby equivalent of either PYTHONPATH or sys.path?
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<Hanmac>
inad922: what path should be returned?
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<inad922>
Hanmac: The list of paths where ruby searches for modules to load
<inad922>
I guess /usr/lib/ruby/site_ruby is part of this
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<Hanmac>
inad922: try $LOAD_PATH
<inad922>
Also something that is related is there a virtualenv equivalent which is like a chroot for python
<inad922>
Hanmac: Thanks
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<inad922>
It's not defined
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<Hanmac>
inad922: $LOAD_PATH is inside ruby
<inad922>
ow
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<inad922>
yep
<inad922>
it does work
<inad922>
It's a global variable
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<inad922>
As far as I remember the tutorials
<maasha>
.oO(lunch ...)
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<maasha>
:o)~
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<lotherk>
hi there.
<lotherk>
can anyone tell me what perl's =~s///g in ruby is?
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<lotherk>
ah, .gsub seems to be what I am looking for.
<tobiasvl>
yes
<lotherk>
nice, thx
<tobiasvl>
and =~ is the same, regex matching. "hello" =~ /hello/
<shevy>
cool
<shevy>
does the perl way work in ruby as well?
<lotherk>
not with substitution
<lotherk>
comparing works just like that
<lotherk>
alright, thanks & have a nice day.
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<maasha>
workmad3: ?
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<dEPy>
anyone using redis gem? I'm trying to copy stuff from one redis instance to another using ruby, soo...
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<dEPy>
I can do $redisSrc.dump "somekey", but trying to do $redisDest.restore keyname, 0, keydump says there' no such method "restore"
<dEPy>
but if I try $redisDest.restore it says that it needs 3 arguments... O_o
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<avril14th>
I mean, I start a pry and I just require 'ruby_quickfix' ?
<avril14th>
(doesn't work)
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<avril14th>
no clue how using 3rd party stuffs outside gems work :/
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<diegoviola>
the manager i'm working with couldn't be more vague with his descriptions... damn it
<diegoviola>
i have to guess everything
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<slap_stick>
is there a way to iterate over two hashes at exactly the same time, so hasha.each_pair { |ak,av| .. } hashb.each_pair { |bk,bv| .. } i basically want access to ak and bk at the asme time but if they nest, obviously hashb will be iterating each time a new key is grabbed from hasha
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<Hanmac>
slap_stick: Enumerable#zip
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<Hanmac>
slap_stick: like that:
<Hanmac>
>> {'a'=>{'c'=>'d'}}.zip({'c'=>{'e'=>'f'}}) {|(ak,av),(bk,bv)| p [ak,av,bk,bv] }
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<slap_stick>
ah cool
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<rjhunter>
avril14th_: "How do I use QuickFix from Ruby?" is probably a better question for people who know what QuickFix is, but I can try to help
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<rjhunter>
avril14th_: the documentation and the example code in the QuickFix source code < https://github.com/quickfix/quickfix/ > all seem to `require 'quickfix_ruby'`
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<avril14th_>
rjhunter: well, I get a cannot load such file when trying to require it
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<rjhunter>
avril14th_: which ruby are you using?
<avril14th_>
2.0.0-p353
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<rjhunter>
avril14th_: that's not the one that came packaged with your Ubuntu installation, right?
<avril14th_>
nope, installed through rvm
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<Hanmac>
avril14th_: use require_relative
<sevenseacat>
why would you mix and match like that
<avril14th_>
Hanmac: same error (the file is not in the local dir anyway)
<rjhunter>
avril14th_: rvm-installed rubies look for libraries in a particular set of paths. Ubuntu packages like `ruby-quickfix` put libraries in different paths
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<avril14th_>
rjhunter: ok so I guess I'll have to compile the quickfix myself
<avril14th_>
(do I?)
<sevenseacat>
just install the gem
<avril14th_>
sevenseacat: which
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<sevenseacat>
well i am assuming ruby-quickfix is a ruby gem
<rjhunter>
avril14th_: you *could* probably get it to work across the two different installation styles but it's quite possibly more trouble than it's worth
<avril14th_>
ok
<avril14th_>
I will try to build it myself
<avril14th_>
I tried that already
<avril14th_>
I got an error
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<avril14th_>
in a .cpp files so there I stopped
<avril14th_>
anyway rjhunter thank you for driving me
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<sevenseacat>
how odd
<rjhunter>
avril14th_: if you want to try loading it, you'll need to add some paths to your RUBYLIB environment variable
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<avril14th_>
it = the lib?
<rjhunter>
avril14th_: you can find out which paths with `dpkg -L ruby-quickfix` (it'll probably be something like /usr/lib/ruby/1.9/sitelib)
<rjhunter>
avril14th_: Sorry, I will re-phrase. If you want to try loading the deb-installed library from the rvm-installed ruby, you'll need to add some paths to your RUBYLIB environment variable
<avril14th_>
add the *.so?
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<rjhunter>
add the directory
<rjhunter>
like "PATH" but different :-)
<avril14th_>
what worries me is that there is no quickfix_ruby file overthere
<avril14th_>
anything wrong with the fact that it's installed in a ruby 1.9.1 folder? I mean I use 2.0
<sevenseacat>
well it depends on ruby 1.9
<sevenseacat>
so
<sevenseacat>
yes
<Hanmac>
avril14th_: it is /usr/lib/ruby/vendor_ruby/quickfix/quickfix_ruby.rb
<avril14th_>
Hanmac: true. :)
<rjhunter>
yeah, that's the kind of trouble i was talking about when i said mixing installation styles might be more trouble than it's worth
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<avril14th_>
okay
<avril14th_>
will do it properly
<avril14th_>
hence find out why this cpp fails
<avril14th_>
the maintainers of the ubuntu package hit the same error and they say they fixed it. They just don't say how :)
* avril14th_
crwls back
<avril14th_>
thanks a lot guys for helping out
<avril14th_>
much appreciated
<rjhunter>
avril14th_: sorry to hear it. good luck!
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* avril14th_
pulls out his 7 years C++ experience from the "stuffs from 6 years ago" box
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<rjhunter>
avril14th_: If the Ubuntu package maintainers fixed it then there's probably a patch recorded that shows the exact change -- check the deb-src for debian/patches
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<avril14th_>
where is that deb-src ?
<avril14th_>
is what i'm trying to figure out :)
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<rjhunter>
avril14th_: `apt-get source ruby-quickfix` is probably the easiest :-)
<avril14th_>
hmm
<avril14th_>
interesting
<avril14th_>
:)
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<rjhunter>
avril14th_: but anything past that is probably better asked in #ubuntu (or maybe #debian)
<avril14th_>
okay will do
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<rjhunter>
or of course #quickfix if that exists ;-)
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<avril14th_>
first thing I tried, and it does not ;)
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<shevy>
guys
<shevy>
I have old code here
<shevy>
a method that does this:
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<shevy>
@foobar = foobar.bla
<shevy>
@f = @foobar
<shevy>
this is the same as doing it all on the same line, right?
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<tobiasvl>
yes, you can do @f = @foobar = foobar.bla
<avril14th_>
:)
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<avril14th>
rjhunter: fixed the cpp, compile, installed :)
<avril14th>
now need to figure out how to use the stuff from ruby
<rjhunter>
avril14th: congratulations :-)
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<avril14th>
rjhunter: what's the path you said I should add the ruby so I can require all the *.rb files of the lib?
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<avril14th>
RUBYLIB?
<shevy>
guys
<avril14th>
shevy
<shevy>
a moment
<shevy>
I need to think before I write :-)
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<rjhunter>
avril14th: that's it. rvm will probably have set RUBYLIB already so make sure you take care of that
<shevy>
I am considering trying to "simulate" LPC in ruby. Basically what this means is that I would like to have things like the following work:
<shevy>
if object.call_a_specific_method_here # method exists, return true
<shevy>
else # return false
<shevy>
in default ruby, the if check would fail if the method does not exist
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<shevy>
how would a good way be in ruby to have all objects (in a given project) not fail when a method does not exist? (but only for that particular project)
<Hanmac>
shevy so you are looking for method missing or similar?
<shevy>
kinda
<shevy>
but it scares me
<shevy>
and I am unsure how to make this best on a per-project basis
<Hanmac>
does the objects inside one project has a BaseObject class?
<shevy>
I can start from scratch
<shevy>
I just wonder how to best approach this
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<shevy>
so if it helps Hanmac, let's say yes :)
<shevy>
I'd have to subclass every object though or?
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<Hanmac>
hm yeah i think that would help (or use an Module which you can include or extend) than use this: method_missing(*);nil;end
<Hanmac>
shevy: i needed an gui lib and gtk was not cool enough
<shevy>
hehe
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<rjhunter>
xfce-x64: we can help you better if we understand the problem. can you tell us what you've tried, what you expected and what you saw instead?
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<bklane>
I have been developing ruby for a year but never noticed the .to_i(base=10) parameter, I have been looking at the docs but confused as to what base does,
<bklane>
can someone better direct me?
<xfce-x64>
I want to try CGI or whatever modern version of it is on lighttpd webserver
<xfce-x64>
but when i did what arch wiki page says .. it don't still work
<avril14th>
bklane: this is the representation base
<avril14th>
bklane: 2 is binary
<rjhunter>
bklane: it's the mathematical concept of "bases" -- decimal is base 10, hexadecimal is base 16
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<Hanmac>
apeiros & shevy: the "National Vulnerability Database" has an "Unexpected or Unknown Error" without Error Code and useful Error description ... Now that what i call "Ironic" ;D
<tobiasvl>
"10".to_i(2) is the same as what's called (10)2 in the Radix article
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<bklane>
tobiasvl: Question now that I think I get it, if the base number is over 10 and the number you are putting through the system is under 10 it will not change?
<avril14th>
correct
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<bklane>
obviously the max of 36*
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<avril14th>
any number under the base will not change
<bklane>
perfect, I got it then. I appreciate all the help!
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<Hanmac>
haha i found a little bug in Bigdecimal ;P
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<avril14th>
Hanmac: ! gist?
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<bklane>
last question, if I had a base of 16.. there would be no way to get 10-15 as an output, it skips from 9 - 16 based on putting in 9-10?
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<Hanmac>
avril14th: its about that Bigdecimal() and Float#to_d does not handle (-0.0) correctly
<bklane>
would there be a way to get*
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<avril14th>
bklane: I don't get the question
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<tobiasvl>
bklane: base 16 is from 0 to 9 and then A to F
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<bklane>
x.to_i(16) = 14
<bklane>
would that be possible?
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<avril14th>
>> 14.to_i(16)
<eval-in>
avril14th => wrong number of arguments (1 for 0) (ArgumentError) ... (https://eval.in/76169)
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<avril14th>
now ruby may not handle them all
<avril14th>
it probably handles up to all alphanumeric, that is 36
<avril14th>
but in theory you can do as you please
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<cannonball>
Hello all, I'm attempting to use some ruby (in chef) that isn't doing what I expect it should do. Here is the line:
<cannonball>
number = type == "secondary" ? ":#{interface[:number]}" : "real"
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<cannonball>
When type is the string "secondary", I expect the variable 'number' to get assigned that expanded variable interface[:number], otherwise I expect it to get set to the string "real".
<cannonball>
the problem is, no matter whether type is "primary" or "secondary", the variable number is always getting set to "real". So the tertiary command isn't working the way I expected it to.
<cannonball>
I suspect I'm checking the contents of the 'type' variable wrong. Can anybody confirm that and suggest a better way to do this?
<Hanmac>
cannonball: are you sure type is a String and not a Symbol?
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<cannonball>
...hmmmm.... I didn't realize that ruby treated them differently. I'll try with type == :secondary (I thought it auto-converted between the two).
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<avril14th>
cannonball: most likely the type you pass isn't a string
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<cannonball>
Yep, that was it. Kind of destroys my understanding of the relationship between "blah" and :blah :-/
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<avril14th>
well
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<avril14th>
back to basics then :)
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<shevy>
cannonball think of "blah" and :blah as married twins
<shevy>
:blah is the one put into a cage, and sad because of that
<shevy>
"blah" has all the freedom in the world
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<siwica>
I have a two dimensional array of strings and I want to print those in some nice manner on the screen (fixed length per column, line break if necessary, ...). What would be a good way to achieve this?
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<siwica>
...sort of like a table...
<siwica>
any recommended gem?
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<awea>
siwica: ruby ?
<siwica>
awea: you mean its not the proper channel?
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<awea>
siwica: I mean you don't have to take a gem to do such thing. Write a little class with an unit_tests. Add the tests (what you say below). Make them pass. Youhou...
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<mboyd>
ok, I have a new problem: I need to find out what cucumber step I'm currently running from *way* down the stack of execution. Is there an easy way to do this?
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<mboyd>
I'm thinking about trying to traverse the executions stack back until I get to the point the actual step is being called and then examining the parameters, but I don't know if ruby will give me that level of access
<mboyd>
and if there's a much easier way of doing this, I would be all for that
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<Hanmac>
shevy what will happen earlier? that rwx is complete and documented or that mruby replaces mri? ;P
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<shevy>
rwx complet perhaps
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<shevy>
rwx documented never
<shevy>
mruby feels years of work to go :(
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<Jabberwock>
Hello. Have any of you used the 'roo' gem for reading xlsx files? Or can you recommend a better gem?
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<Jabberwock>
It reports the last row as 19 when it is actually over 50,000
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<Hanmac>
shevy: a few commits ago i break the rdoc for my binding, so now it cant detect method documention anymore ... i make a ticket so maybe they can fix that without breaking my stuff
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<shevy>
they? who is they?
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<apeiros>
ElasticElephant: it's an unqualified question. that's wrong with it.
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<apeiros>
how about you tell us why you think something was wrong?
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<ElasticElephant>
ok, well I know the issue is with the elsif
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<shevy>
ElasticElephant include errors in such pastes
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<shevy>
ElasticElephant you have a line "if" only, that makes no sense, people usually have the condition clause there
<apeiros>
ElasticElephant: the point is, we don't know the issue you have.
<shevy>
if @game_over
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<shevy>
end_game
<awea>
else
<shevy>
ElasticElephant you also dont really do any check
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<mboyd>
hey shevy
<shevy>
the intent is not clear what you wanna do there plastic elephant
<Hanmac1>
shevy i have seen case when without case-expression ;P
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<mboyd>
hey, so my question from earlier, do you know if there's a way to examine the call stack in ruby? I know about caller, but I'm hoping to get more access to the stack - like the level of access a debugger has to it
<shevy>
yeah I hate guys who do that
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<shevy>
mboyd dunno perhaps pry has that, then it's possible
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<olivier_bK>
i use Open3.popen3in over ssh. When i execute the script i get spawn': can't convert nil into String
<shevy>
channel.exec "ls -l /home" do |ch, success|
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<Hanmac>
shevy "#{@mysl_dump}" => "#@mysl_dump"
<shevy>
hey
<shevy>
it's not my code Hanmac
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<shevy>
go work on rwx :P
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<Hanmac>
shevy i already make 10 rwx commits in the last 48h
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<olivier_bK>
Hanmac, 10 commit for ruby or for perso projet
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<shevy>
make 20 Hanmac
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<shevy>
make 30
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<SylvieLorxu>
Hey everyone. I've found that "require 'rubygems'" before requiring a gem fixed some issues I had with a gem not being found on another user's system. However, I can't help but wonder, is it sane to require 'rubygems'? Are there any risks? Pitfalls?
<SylvieLorxu>
I couldn't find anything when searching the web
<MrZYX>
it's implicitly done since ruby 1.9
<MrZYX>
look at require's return value, it returns false if the file was already loaded
<SylvieLorxu>
So it's nothing to worry about and could be considered good for compatibility with older Ruby versions?
<shevy>
SylvieLorxu gems is now a part of ruby since 2.9
<shevy>
if you include a check, why not
<MrZYX>
*1.9
<shevy>
require 'rubygems' if RUBY_VERSION > '1.8'
<shevy>
oops
<shevy>
require 'rubygems' if RUBY_VERSION < '1.9'
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<MrZYX>
it's not harmful but it also shouldn't be needed
<MrZYX>
1.8 is out of support
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<SylvieLorxu>
Hmm, I see
<MrZYX>
it shouldn't be used anymore
<SylvieLorxu>
Well, the Fedora system which runs it is running 1.8.7
<shevy>
\o/
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<SylvieLorxu>
I think I'll bug the sysadmin :
<MrZYX>
that's an old fedora then
<SylvieLorxu>
:P
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<SylvieLorxu>
I'd expect so
<SylvieLorxu>
But I honestly have no clue
<MrZYX>
probably out of support too
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<MrZYX>
since fedora only does support for 13 months
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<RubyPanther>
the fedora system ruby should only be used for things that would get built into rpms, everybody else should be using a ruby version manager
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<SylvieLorxu>
RubyPanther: I see
<SylvieLorxu>
MrZYX: Oh dear :x
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<shevy>
SylvieLorxu pffft don't worry about these weaklings here, 1.8.7 is awesome
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<MrZYX>
fedora 19 already has 2.0 btw
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<MrZYX>
18 1.9
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<SylvieLorxu>
MrZYX: Talked to him, he's running Fedora 17, heh...
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<RubyPanther>
it may be the golden version, but new gems generally do not run on it, almost as a rule
<shevy>
\o/
<RubyPanther>
I'm on 16 still
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<shevy>
we don't believe you
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<mboyd>
whew, just locked up my IDE - mental note: never debug a set_trace_proc method
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<apeiros>
lol
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<ineb>
iam looking for a good design approach. i wrote a low level api and now i want to write a more abstract api, which uses that low level api. in ruby what is a good way to implement that? should i include the low level api as a module?
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<ineb>
new to ruby btw :>
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<havenwood>
ineb: Yeah, it is good to take code of a different abstraction layer and include it is a mixin. Including a module sounds good.
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<ineb>
havenwood: cool, thanks.
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<havenwood>
as a mixin**
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<Hamburglr>
hi all, I'm trying to set the correct shell executable in a CLI ruby script while using rbenv. I've tried #!/usr/local/opt/rbenv/shims/ruby -w but that doesn't work. Can someone point me in the right direction?
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<Hanmac>
Hamburglr: use "#!/usr/bin/env ruby -w" if rbenv is correct installed it should work
<Hamburglr>
thanks Hanmac that worked
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<shevy>
htop was written by the guy who started gobolinux
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<shevy>
Hanmac, come idle on #OpenRubyRMK
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<DMA>
Hello. I'm installing GitLab on CentOS 6.4. I'm adapting the official instructions from GitLab site, so I compiled Ruby 2.0.0-p535 (had no problem) and everything has worked pretty fine but now I'm running "sudo -u git -H /usr/local/bin/bundle install --deployment --without development test mysql aws" and I'm getting an error (exit code 5). Log is @ http://pastebin.com/qBDp5gjj
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<Hanmac>
DMA you need to find a the dev package that installs the icui18n lib in your system ... like "libicui18n-dev" or something similar
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<ineb>
yet another designquestion. i have a set of modules which use some common custom-exceptions. should i define these exceptions in a separate module then ?
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<ineb>
*the modules uses the same kind of exceptions
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<shevy>
ineb are you overengineering
<RubyPanther>
n88: your non-question question conjures up not only the horrors of screen scraping, but the horrors of working with clients that request it
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* RubyPanther
runs away screaming and hair-rending
<shevy>
ineb make a design that you feel comfortable working with. and if in doubt, try to stay little, terse, and as simple and straight to the solution as possible
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<n88>
RubyPanther: haha... yeahhhh well it has to happen
<n88>
would you happen to know the best way to deal with scraping variable length tables
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<shevy>
ineb there are two main reasons when one wants to use a module (1) you want to put things into a common namespace so it does not conflict with other names (2) you want to include or make use of the constants of a module in another class or file
<RubyPanther>
I always used Hpricot and a bunch of loops and WTFs
<xibalba>
how easy is it to get a job in dev that pays 85k at least
<RubyPanther>
is there a best way? Yeah, whichever way you don't lose a finger
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<RubyPanther>
A better way, decide that whatever "requires" it isn't a required activity in the first place, problem solved.
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<n88>
well i guess any way would suffice right now for me
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<ineb>
shevy: allright, i see your point
<ineb>
youre probably right
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<n88>
xibalba: depends on where you live and what your skill level is
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<RubyPanther>
n88: It is one of those shortcuts where the shortcut is almost always much longer than the right way, plus it requires experts not to fail anyways. And experts will chafe at the shortcuts.
<xibalba>
right, wondering what 'skill level' you need to get around 85k in California
<n88>
xibalba: sf or socal
<xibalba>
socal, but can/will move to SF
<n88>
ah
<xibalba>
sandy eggo precisely
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<n88>
i'm in orange county
<yeboot>
the oc
<n88>
the real OC
<xibalba>
I'm just getting tired of IT, looking to switch. Currently a Cloud Systems Engineer, previously was a VoIP Systems Engineer for a large carrier (100 million minutes a month)
<yeboot>
lol
<yeboot>
I'm going to move to the south sf bay here soon, potentially
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<xibalba>
yeah i went to SF last week to scout out the area
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<xibalba>
with that exact purpose in mind
<yeboot>
so we can al get together and buy each other drinks, talk about how cool it is that we can yield to proc statements
<n88>
moving to SF soon as well
<xibalba>
n88, did you find a job first?
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<n88>
xibalba: i already have a job
<xibalba>
hmm, how do i put this
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<xibalba>
a) do you work remote? b) does your current company have an office in SF? or C) are you going to quit and move to SF and find a new job
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<n88>
haha... how are your RoR powers
<RubyPanther>
xibalba: generally IT experience is not counted towards dev experience, I'd expect having to take an lower wage, entry-level position
<xibalba>
RoR, meh. Starting on just Ruby first
<n88>
you might want to look into being a project manager first
<n88>
and then transitioning
<n88>
probably won't get a jr. dev position
<xibalba>
i should have never switched. I started coding C at age 14, then learned C#/Java/ASM x86/PHP
<shevy>
and then MURDERING YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD!!!
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<n88>
and i work in the office or remotely
<shevy>
C is good, you can help make mruby
<n88>
but i am one of the owners
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<RubyPanther>
even if you have a CS degree, if you then go right into IT and that is where you've been, you have to convince people you can even can code.
<ineb>
shevy: you were right. iam going with a simpler approach now. feels more comfortable
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<n88>
xibalba: if you shoot me your resume i can have a few people look at it
<ineb>
shevy: i can still change thinks if necesary
<ineb>
*things
<shevy>
ineb just write lots and lots of code. those questions will go away the moment you wrote your 100th project. start with your own gems as soon as possible, it forces you into a specific structure
<n88>
but you are going to need a repository with sample code
<n88>
and then you are going to need to code in front of people
<shevy>
ineb and when other people are able to re-use your projects, you know you did something right
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<yeboot>
shevy mruby?
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<shevy>
ineb ruby can become very complex, if you got big brains you can use all of ruby and never be confused, but if you are a normal person, you want to let it stay as simple as possible
<shevy>
yeboot matz works on mruby
<RubyPanther>
mRuby = Matz had Lua envy
<shevy>
which I suppose aims to be as fast as lua and embeddable
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<xibalba>
n88, mind if we link in?
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<ineb>
shevy: regular brain here :)
<RubyPanther>
Somebody else does the MRI work now, mostly, mRuby and RiteVM is what Matz does now
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<xibalba>
im going to take my buddy up on an offer to code with him, he wrote websocket-rails
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<n88>
sure pm me
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<n88>
and you should definitely do that
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<CalimeroTeknik>
how can I get the first four kilobytes of an HTTP URI with a guarantee that I'm not going to get stuck in a redirection loop?
<yeboot>
ah that sounds nice
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<yeboot>
though lua is kind of balls-amazing in how minimalist iti s
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<yeboot>
it is*
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<h0rrorvacui>
I've always wondered how people just move a dime to another location and find jobs. I'm guessing you are just more networked than I am.
<h0rrorvacui>
**move on a dime*
<yeboot>
h0rrorvacui people move to where jobs are, it's why population centers occur
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<h0rrorvacui>
I know. I just don't have anyone I know extended beyond my own county.
<Xeago>
h0rrorvacui: I've taken the 'huge' gamble of migrating to stockholm, sweden, from a tiny town in holland
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<h0rrorvacui>
Xeago can I live with you :P
<DouweM>
Xeago: what tiny town?
<Xeago>
unemployed for 4months before finding a job at spotify
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<Xeago>
Simpelveld
<Xeago>
s/holland/the netherlands
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<havenwood>
Xeago: ooh, cool - hope it works out!
<Xeago>
limburg, close to heerlen
<shevy>
Xeago do you speak swedish?
<Xeago>
havenwood: thanks!
<h0rrorvacui>
I've got scandinavian envy
<DouweM>
Xeago: that's tiny all right :)
<DouweM>
h0rrorvacui: the netherlands aren't so bad :P
<Xeago>
inte mycket just nu
<DMA>
Hanmac: I have a lot of missing dependencies (libxml2, libxslt, mysql...). I don't know when this will end but you made it clear for me. Thanks again.
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<Xeago>
that means, not much right now
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<DouweM>
Xeago: why did you decide to migrate, and why to stockholm specifically?
<Xeago>
girlfriend
<Xeago>
I move to Åkersberga specifically
<DouweM>
ah
<Xeago>
I met her 63months ago, moved 15 months ago
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<Xeago>
employed since mid september
<Xeago>
I still couchsurf at her parents' place :<
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<havenwood>
Xeago: Aha! Seems like an amazing country generally though, I pair with a swedish programmer.
<Xeago>
awaiting my mortgage from the bank as soon as my probation period is over
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<Xeago>
already have a house 'locked'
<DouweM>
nice
<Xeago>
buying from within the familt
<Xeago>
also, sorry for hijacking someone elses complaint about migrating to find work
<Xeago>
Sweden is very nice, havenwood, the air is soo fresh
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<h0rrorvacui>
How hard is it for an American to blend in in the Netherlands DouweM?
<Xeago>
can't be that hard
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<Xeago>
I know that banisterfiend is doing something similar
<DouweM>
h0rrorvacui: well, everyone knows English so you've got that going for you
<h0rrorvacui>
according to ancestry DNA I'm genetically similar anyhow.
<Xeago>
well that will surely help ;)
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<DouweM>
h0rrorvacui: otherwise I don't really know. There's a bunch of international students at my uni, but no Americans that I know of
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<Xeago>
my advice would be to go where you at least know a single person
<RubyPanther>
h0rrorvacui: If you're polite and ask people if they speak English before speaking it to them, they'll assume you're Canadian.
<Xeago>
he'll be able to direct you to the correct agencies when you need help
<DouweM>
Xeago: agreed
<h0rrorvacui>
I'll over applogize and say eh a lot.
<Xeago>
just say wablief
<Xeago>
:3
<h0rrorvacui>
apologize*
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<Xeago>
say watblif on osx
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<DouweM>
ha, that's perfect
<h0rrorvacui>
Canadians are so nice to Americans when things hit the fan that I feel bad even making that joke.
<RubyPanther>
a sysadmin I know described it like, "Do you speak English?" "Yes, are you Canadian?" because most Americans just start speaking English
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<DouweM>
in NL, asking whether someone speaks English is kind of pointless because everyone does. It's still polite, but it's not like in France or even Germany where lots of people don't know or don't want to speak English
<DouweM>
Dutchies like practicing their English
<h0rrorvacui>
I'm kinda down that everyone is learning English. It takes the fun out of language learning for a native english speaker.
<DouweM>
ha, I can see that
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<DouweM>
in that regard we're in the perfect situation, because no-one speaks Dutch
<RubyPanther>
In France if they think you're American they probably "don't" speak English, but if they think you're German/Canadian/etc then of course they use English
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<Xeago>
spotify is horrible in one regard
<DouweM>
RubyPanther: agreed
<Xeago>
teaching me swedish
<Xeago>
everyone speaks english lo/
<DouweM>
Xeago: ha
<h0rrorvacui>
Tell your coworkers to use swedish towards you.
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<DouweM>
Xeago: how international is the stockholm offices?
<RubyPanther>
my travel advice, always massacre a couple local words before speaking English.
<Xeago>
50'ish cultures
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<Xeago>
h0rrorvacui: already done that, hard to break habits
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<h0rrorvacui>
I love scandinavian television because the people are not all hollywood types.
<DouweM>
h0rrorvacui: British TV is great in that regard also
<h0rrorvacui>
Yeah
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<CalimeroTeknik>
how do I only get the first kilobyte of the reply with an HTTP GET request, for instance Net::HTTP.get() ?
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<DouweM>
CalimeroTeknik: read the response body, read the first 1000 chars/bytes?
<CalimeroTeknik>
what if it's 4 gigabytes?
<CalimeroTeknik>
the network will actually transfer the 4 gigs
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<DouweM>
CalimeroTeknik: open a socket, read 1000 bytes, close the connection
<CalimeroTeknik>
true
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<DouweM>
CalimeroTeknik: Ruby has TCPSocket, although you'll have to manage interpreting the HTTP yourself
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<CalimeroTeknik>
so I have to make the header myself, or is there something easy for that?
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<terrellt>
CalimeroTeknik: What are you trying to get out of the first 1,000 bytes?
<terrellt>
Which may not be characters, encoding and such.
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<DouweM>
CalimeroTeknik: when I had to use a TCPSocket to talk over HTTP recently, I just wrote a small header parser myself
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<CalimeroTeknik>
well, around a few thousands bytes, that would suffice to get the <title>
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<NeedRubyHelp>
Hey guys, i need a bit of help.
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<NeedRubyHelp>
I'm trying to run the Bundle command in a directory, and I am getting errors.
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<CalimeroTeknik>
be more specific? give a failing example
<bnagy>
apeiros: right, and the 'methods from IO / recvfrom' conflict happens when you mix methods from IO on a socket obj and recvfrom / recv etc
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<apeiros>
ok
<bnagy>
so no I don't think using select would affect that at all, btu I haven't checked
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<bnagy>
like it magically turns it into a buffered IO as soon as you use any IO meths I think
<apeiros>
I understand now what you meant (I think - it's late and I should/will go to sleep)
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<bnagy>
I thought you were just pointing out that I was insufficiently precise
<apeiros>
I think I really have to read the implementation of those classes once
<apeiros>
no, I wasn't
<bnagy>
:)
<apeiros>
I almost never use Socket specific methods on sockets. I almost stick with IO based methods.
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<apeiros>
+always
<apeiros>
so I lack experience with regards to Socket specific methods
<bnagy>
that's safest imho, and also most rubyish
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<tonsk>
bnagy: come again, sorry?
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<bnagy>
tonsk: modify the code to p OpenSSL::Digest.methods one line before the fault
<bnagy>
if the file weren't included then I don't think it would even find that module, so it looks like it's missing the hexdigest method for some reason, which is odd
<tonsk>
DouweM: "Note that this method does not exist on EL-5's version of Ruby either. (ruby-1.8.5-5.el5_3.7)."
<momomomomo>
DouweM: Is there a buffer on question rate?
<jezen>
but why is $. giving me the last line number every iteration?
<valesk>
Does anyone have a recommendation for a support desk service for a small to medium sized company? We're currently using Zendesk but are wondering about some awesome alternatives.
<bnagy>
tonsk: 1.8.5 is way, way past prehistoric
<DouweM>
NeedRubyHelp: you can't reference the repo with the SSH URL like that because you won't have the keys, and the repo you reference is deprecated
<momomomomo>
valesk: not in #ruby
<DouweM>
momomomomo: there's not, but he's referring the question he asked 30 minutes ago to which we received a couple of answers, which he apparently didn't notice :)
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<valesk>
Where...then?
<tonsk>
bnagy: i thought so as well, but im afraid i will break something if i force it to upgrade
<momomomomo>
ah :p
<tonsk>
bnagy: yum repositories do not allow me a newer version at the first glance
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<bnagy>
tonsk: nobody can support 1.8 ( esp .5 holy crap) for you anymore
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<bnagy>
do a user install on a real ruby
<bnagy>
*of
<tonsk>
manual compile and install You mean?
<bnagy>
there are tools that make it a lot easier, but essentially yes
<nobitanobi>
Hi guys, I am getting this error "TypeError (Float can't be coerced into Float for bitwise arithmetic):" when doing this: https://gist.github.com/novito/7797289
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<NeedRubyHelp>
So how would I fix this, DouweM ?
<nobitanobi>
I fail to reproduce this on the IRB console :/
<NeedRubyHelp>
* DouweM
<DouweM>
NeedRubyHelp: change your gemfile to reference the correct repo over HTTP
<nobitanobi>
btw, before doing to_f, the alpha object class is String
<bnagy>
Xeago: already said, any debian strain is fine. I would argue that debian style and FC style are the last distros standing
<nobitanobi>
DouweM, it expects an Integer :/
<Xeago>
bnagy: cool :3
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<nobitanobi>
that's not cool
<DouweM>
nobitanobi: haha, from 0 to 100 probably?
<h0rrorvacui>
I don't like upstart or canonical tbh.
<nobitanobi>
0 255 it says
<nobitanobi>
a (Integer) — The opacity (0-255)
<DouweM>
nobitanobi: ah, right.
<nobitanobi>
actually, I am thinking that the value I am getting from scrapping might be wrong
<nobitanobi>
I have to check out if alpha values can be floats
<DouweM>
Xeago: you know that any mention of kittens is required to be followed up by a picture of said kittens, right?
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<bnagy>
h0rrorvacui: ok my point is that you can make an ubuntu box into whatever suits your taste. Centos you have a prehistoric kernel and prehistoric packages with practically no way of changing either of those things
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<bnagy>
once your kernel and your packages are useless you're kind of against the wall, with linux
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<h0rrorvacui>
point taken
<heftig>
centos is fine if your hardware isn't bleeding edge
<bnagy>
or your software
<heftig>
e.g. i had a centos VM set up to run oracle for a CS course
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<bnagy>
"it worked for me at one specific time, for a specific task, when any distro would also have worked" is not a compelling rebuttal
<bnagy>
"Centos! It Boots! (tm)"
<heftig>
bnagy: it certainly saved me a lot of trouble trying to get Oracle DB to run on Arch
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<lewellyn>
bnagy: it's sad that the fake quote is essentially their qa process now :P
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<bnagy>
"Centos! Just as bad as RHEL, but UNSUPPORTED! (tm)"
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<bnagy>
anyway I think I made my point, I shall hush now
<bnagy>
so. How about that ruby?
<lewellyn>
i honestly think centos is currently the worst thing going for the rheclone image, since there are bugs which people moan about on it and which can't be reproduced on other rheclones or rhel itself. :P
<lewellyn>
and centos is the most visible of the rheclones
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<h0rrorvacui>
I'm curious as to what success people have used Arch as a server.
<lewellyn>
i think it has "the gentoo problem": unless you take lots of care, it's hard to keep a whole server farm on the same version of everything.
<h0rrorvacui>
what about suse and fedora?
<lewellyn>
fedora is specifically not meant for servers.
<h0rrorvacui>
bnagy?
<h0rrorvacui>
Is it? I've no experience with it at all.
<h0rrorvacui>
Its one distro I've not used for anything.
<bnagy>
I hate rpm
<lewellyn>
i've had to save the hides of a couple of companies who ignored that and ended up in a totally unsupportable state. "but we only installed it like 18 months ago! it should still be supported!"
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<bnagy>
but it's a hatred I have borne for 15 years or so and I just can't move on
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<bnagy>
I am intellectually aware that it got better
<lewellyn>
bnagy: it's gotten better since then, thankfully.
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<bnagy>
friends use FC, also on servers
<bnagy>
say it works
<lewellyn>
it took me some time a couple years back to get off my i-hate-rh kick because rhl (no e) 5.1 ate my disks repeatedly.
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<h0rrorvacui>
lewellyn what do you prefer then?
<lewellyn>
i realize it was probably the fault of the kernel and ext2 tools available at the time, but meh.
<jezen>
can I write regexs with ARGV? Like: line =~ /$*[0]/
<jezen>
?
<lewellyn>
h0rrorvacui: note that rhl 5.1 was like 15 years ago.
<tonsk>
bnagy: i managed to add a yum repo which contained a newer version (2010y), upgraded with it and now it works
<tonsk>
bnagy: and all this time the developers told me it worked for a year before today, dont know how..
<h0rrorvacui>
I'm aware but what distro do you prefer
<bnagy>
jezen: please try to use constants like ARGV when they exist. The obscure globals are a shame we bear from the past and should be hidden
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<jezen>
ah, ok. Thanks for that tip bnagy
<lewellyn>
h0rrorvacui: on servers, i run scientific linux or solaris 10. on desktops, i run windows or osx.
<bnagy>
tonsk: that is impossible, afaict, unless something else changed
<lewellyn>
oh. windows servers too.
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<bnagy>
mmm windows
<tonsk>
bnagy: what else could've affected it?
<h0rrorvacui>
lewellyn I don't know if I can trust you now :P
<lewellyn>
and i run qnx in my pocket :)
<tonsk>
bnagy: i guess that questions will remain unanswered...
<bnagy>
tonsk: I am too lazy to look up that shrugging emoji
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<h0rrorvacui>
I've never touched window server though.