<jrobeson>
h0rrorvacui, it will be with an arduino.. but i'm currently using it with a custom radio from rfdigital .. it' s usb thingy that takes input from keyfobs for testing
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<h0rrorvacui>
Yeah I think I want a arduino or raspberrypi so I'm going to order one and play around with it and perhaps I'll use ruby serial port with it.
<h0rrorvacui>
So much fun to be had.
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<debian_>
:d
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<MrLinuxSwigger>
hey my fellow rubyist
<MrLinuxSwigger>
:)
<pontiki>
thinking about getting a pi and use it as a cheapass file server
<MrLinuxSwigger>
pontiki: you can the BigNumber method for solving Pi in ruby. ;)
<MrLinuxSwigger>
pontiki: you can the BigNumber class for solving Pi in ruby. ;)
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<pontiki>
context is everything
<MrLinuxSwigger>
well pontiki im learning ruby
<MrLinuxSwigger>
and loveing it
<pontiki>
it's my favourite language to code in
<MrLinuxSwigger>
Ruby language really help me out with learning program flow and learning algorithims
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<MrLinuxSwigger>
i heard FirefoxOS is using some r uby stuff
<MrLinuxSwigger>
:)
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<sam113101>
you should buy a network drive
<sam113101>
or plug some drive to your router if it allows you to do that
<pontiki>
what's the fun of that?
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<sam113101>
what do you mean
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<MrLinuxSwigger>
hello havenwood
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<pontiki>
idk, what do you mean?
<pontiki>
i want a pi to play with
<MrLinuxSwigger>
i ate pie
<pontiki>
using it as a file server seems like good play
<MrLinuxSwigger>
:)
<MrLinuxSwigger>
pontiki:
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<MrLinuxSwigger>
Apple pie
<pontiki>
Raspberry Pi
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<MrLinuxSwigger>
Thanksgiveing was good
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<MrLinuxSwigger>
Pork and Beans for tomorrow night :)
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<][nfinity>
i'm a beginner with ruby and have a specific ruby/regexp question. Would this be the place to ask?
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<jrobeson>
you can try
<jrobeson>
it is likely a place to ask
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<jrobeson>
err what i meant was: it is a place to ask, but it's also not super busy at this time of day.. so you might not get an answer immediately
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<][nfinity>
ok. I'm learning some basic regexp and ruby at the same time, so this may seem pretty basic for some folks. I'm trying to write a regexp that will take a string like this "firstname\lastname" and match firstname, lastname, and the backslash.
<][nfinity>
I wrote this: puts "first\last".sub(/(?<fn>\w+)\\(?<ln>\w+)/, '\k<ln>, \k<fn>')
<][nfinity>
but it's not matching the backslash, even through I have it escaped (correct?)
<][nfinity>
\\
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<][nfinity>
it's currently returning "firstlast"
<jrobeson>
hmm why use a regex for that?
<][nfinity>
if I use another character as a delimiter, for example ":" instead of the backslash, it's not a problem.
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<jrobeson>
why not just split in the \
<][nfinity>
because the chapter I'm going through is about learning how to use regexp ;)
<jrobeson>
i guess i'd prefer to use ruby code rather than regex
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<jrobeson>
hmm.. it looks like you have your backslash escaped.. so hmm
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<][nfinity>
right
<][nfinity>
i'm going through the Ruby pick-axe book. This is from chapt 7
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<jrobeson>
i can't read today.. you said that already :(
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<royalty>
][nfinity, well in sub() why is the first character after the ( a \?
<jrobeson>
royalty, he left
<jrobeson>
or rather they left..
<royalty>
jrobeson: oh
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<royalty>
his mistake was a forward slash instead of a backslash
<royalty>
I believe
<royalty>
oh well
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<royalty>
is there a method to change a character to its byte equivalent
<royalty>
or bit
<royalty>
rather
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<royalty>
I suppose it is string.unpack('b');
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<heftig>
royalty: no, his mistake was that the string "first\last" does not contain a backslash
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<heftig>
rather, it contains an escaped character "\l", but there's no such escape, so it becomes just "l"
<heftig>
so the string is "firstlast"; the regexp doesn't match, so the substitution doesn't happen and the string is returned unmodified
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<Steve009>
anyone use github.com for large projects with lots of users using github?
<Steve009>
more specifically using the github issue tracker?
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<sevenseacat>
nearly every ruby gem in existence?
<Steve009>
sevenseacat that direct at me?
<sevenseacat>
no, the other guy asking about people that use github
<Steve009>
well may have been a answer to a question before i joined....
<sevenseacat>
then pretend it was, and move right along
<Steve009>
lets reword: Anyone use the GitHub issue tracker with large numbers of users?
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<sevenseacat>
most repos for large ruby gems.
<sevenseacat>
for example, rails.
<Steve009>
rails is a good example
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<pontiki>
what actually is the question behind that question, Steve009 ?
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<sevenseacat>
yes, hello Steve009.
<sam113101>
HELLO GIRLFRIEND FROM OUTTERSPACE,
<sam113101>
HELLO!
<jrobeson>
well rails doesn't only use the github issue tracker do they?
<sevenseacat>
for tracking issues? as far as i know, yes.
<jrobeson>
i thought there was some basecamp integration or something.. i'm not familiar
<sevenseacat>
they do have a private campfire channel for communication
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<zastern>
n00b question: if I want to do array.each but only for say, the first 3 items, is there an easy way to do that?
<bnagy>
ary.first(3).each
<zastern>
awesome
<zastern>
thanks bnagy
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<jrobeson>
sevenseacat, good to know.. because that is a pretty huge project :)
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<jrobeson>
i know symfony2 is also using github issues for all their stuff
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<zastern>
So, I have a ruby script that has a lot of output. It runs fine, but when I pass the output to less, once I quit less, I see that ruby threw a broken pipe
<zastern>
like this ./zendeath.rb:122:in `write': Broken pipe - <STDOUT> (Errno::EPIPE
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<zastern>
Anybody run into that?
<ziikutv>
Hello, is there an text tutorial of how to work with API's or Json files in rails? I am trying to make a stats website in rails (as my first rails project) but i'd like to fully understand the Webapi first with pure ruby.
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<Xeago>
a good morning apeiros!
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<shevy>
zastern yeah I have had this in the past
<shevy>
no idea how I solve it
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<cina>
I want to create a few jobs (or tasks) and run them in parallel. I need a basic way to share an array between the jobs (set and get access). Any ideas how I could do this?
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<jle`>
technically this is concurrency, not parallelism
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<jle`>
becuase you're going to have to deal with nondeterminism
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<cina>
so, the difference between concurrency and parallelism is that concurrency is nondeterministic?
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<yeboot>
hey, in linux/windows/etc is there a way for ruby to automatically create a config file in ~/.programname or %appdata% or wherever
<canton7>
dunno about 'automatically', but creating a file in ruby is pretty trivial...
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<yeboot>
it's the location that's the important bit
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<canton7>
There's File.expand_path('~/.dotfile'), File.join(Dir.home, '.dotfile'), and several other incantations
<canton7>
on windows, there's ENV['APPDATA']
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
yeboot what do you mean about automatically
<shevy>
ruby will do things only if you specify it to do it
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<shevy>
cina Thread.new().join should work, sharing data between them could happen with a global var, with an @ivar on the parent class, or with a Mutex I think -> http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.0.0/Mutex.html
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<shevy>
"If an exception is raised in the main thread, and is not handled anywhere, the Ruby interpreter prints a message and exits."
<shevy>
Thread.current["mycount"] = count
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<cina>
shevy: thank you! This seems interesting https://github.com/grosser/parallel I'm going to run a performance comparison between Threads and Processes
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<leonidlm>
Hi everyone. I would like to run tests on multiple projects from within one execution. However each project has it's own specs. Is it possible to somehow include them all and run them without changing the directories to a root of each project ?
<leonidlm>
Sorry if it is a newbie rspec question...
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<DouweM>
Mornin'
<jle`>
good morning DouweM
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<yeboot>
hey I don't understand how hashes work with symbols instead of string literals
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<DouweM>
yeboot: what's the confusion?
<yeboot>
because with strings I can do hash = { "foo" => "bar" } then hash["foo"]
<yeboot>
how do I access a hash with { :foo => "bar" }
<DouweM>
hash[:foo]
<DouweM>
yeboot: any object can be a hash key, as long as it responsd to #hash an #eql?, which all objects do by default.
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<yeboot>
DouweM ah
<yeboot>
oh wow
<yeboot>
I feel dumb
<DouweM>
:)
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<apeiros>
DouweM: what? no magical incantation first? :)
<oddalot>
you can also access a symbol in a hash with a string as well
<oddalot>
i believe
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<DouweM>
oddalot: no you can't
<oddalot>
or is it the other way around?
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<DouweM>
oddalot: only with ActiveSupport::HashWithIndifferentAccess
<yeboot>
you guys are beyond me
<yeboot>
but that's cool
<oddalot>
oh yeah, guess you're right
<oddalot>
don't know why i thought that lol
<DouweM>
Railsism, probably
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<oddalot>
Yes, Rails will spoil you sometimes ;)
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<DouweM>
I've started taking ActiveSupport for granted, which has led me to provide misinformation in this channel before
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<Hanmac1>
yeboot but you need to beware about using changable objects as hash keys
<oddalot>
one thing about symbols is you can use the more concise syntax of- key: value - instead of - "key" => value
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<DouweM>
oddalot: symbols are also more appropriate than strings as hash keys for memory reasons
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<oddalot>
Yes, because they are immutable
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<Hanmac>
but you need to be careful when you call methods that generate symbols when you dont know what you do
<DouweM>
the difference is that :name and :name are the exact same object, so it's only in memory once, while "name" and "name" are both in memory
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<DouweM>
Hanmac raises a very good point
<oddalot>
although, a symbol can't begin with a number, a strong can
<DouweM>
you should be wary of using String#to_sym
<oddalot>
string*
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<DouweM>
oddalot: sure it can: :"0xyz"
<Hanmac>
DouweM: in newest ruby: "name".freeze and "name".freeze are also the same object when using string literals ... thats an optimize of the parser
<oddalot>
nice try lol, i see the quotes
<DouweM>
Hanmac: oh, neat
<DouweM>
oddalot: it's still a symbol, not a string
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<oddalot>
but it doesn't start with a number
<DouweM>
oddalot: that's just symbol-not-starting-with-letter syntax
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<DouweM>
Hanmac: still, symbols are for identifiers :)
<oddalot>
so it's just for syntactical reasons I can't declare a symbol with a number
<oddalot>
without using quotes
<DouweM>
oddalot: exactly
<oddalot>
hmmm...good stuff
<Hanmac>
oddalot: not all methods defined in string works for symbol like String#tr ... also you need very BEWARE about Symbol#upcase and its brothers #lowercase and #swapcase
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<shevy>
gem install hanmac_wxwidgets
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<Hanmac>
shevy its still not uploaded as gem yet, i still need to work about ... and it would be named "rwx" ... (because wxRuby needed to be replaced with some other name)
<shevy>
oddalot, numbers in ruby are cheaters for efficiency reasons. 5.object_id will always give the same as opposed to "5".object_id
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<DouweM>
note that "5" == "5" just calls the #== method on the first "5", which is implemented to check value instead of identity
<Hanmac>
oddalot: on 64 achitecture on 2.0+ Float and maybe also bigNums have fixed object_ids too ... (but not all floats like 0.0 has fixed but -0.0 has not ;P )
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<oddalot>
good to know
<oddalot>
Now, if I can just learn CSS lol
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<jblack>
Hi. I'm trying to use a tool named knife, which depends on part upon zlib. knife solo prepare is getting a "ERROR: Zlib::StreamError: stream error"
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<jblack>
When I attempt to run the same command on another workstation, it works as expected, so I think somehow zlib is horked up on my laptop. How do I diagnose what's going wrong?
<oddalot>
this is running from a browser or a console?
<jblack>
console.
<jblack>
knife solo is a tool that is used to configure remote machines. So probably net-ssh is using zlib, and zlib is broken.
* Hanmac
smells an OSX problem
<jblack>
I'm on ubuntu 13.10
<oddalot>
are your ssh keys correct?
<jblack>
On the workstation that is broken, 13.10, and on the one that works, 13.04
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<jblack>
Yes, ssh
<oddalot>
can you manually ssh into the remote machine on both your computers successfully?
<jblack>
However, I do have complicated ocnfig, and that does seem to be the problem
<jblack>
chef bootstrap works if I move my .ssh/config out of the way, so that'll give me something to dive into.
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<jblack>
My hunch is "CompressionLevel 99"
<oddalot>
yeah, you probably know more than me about this problem, I'm not a networking export
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<oddalot>
expert
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<jblack>
Yup. That was the problem. That configuration option causes net-ssh to bomb out
<oddalot>
nice
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<shevy>
oddalot CSS is really simple. it's like lego building blocks, just give your html elements id's, and then you can style these in a consistent way
<DouweM>
shevy: yeah, don't go overboard with the id's. class is where it's at
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<GreatSUN>
re
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<GreatSUN>
re
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<yeboot>
can I store procs or lambdas in a hash or array
<tobiasvl>
sure
<DouweM>
yeboot: they're just Proc objects, so sure
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<GreatSUN>
dagobah: doesnt work... this does: /^4{1}[^4]*$/
<GreatSUN>
while this means it has to begin with a 4
<dagobah>
Eught .count(?4) might be my friend :)
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<GreatSUN>
dagobah: hehe
<GreatSUN>
otherwise: ^[^4]*4{1}[^4]*$
<dagobah>
Is there a nicer/shorter way without a regex?
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<GreatSUN>
dagobah: it always matters what you want as result
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<yeboot>
thanks tobiasvl DouweM
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<GreatSUN>
dagobah: if you only want to know if the variable contains one 4, I'd use split count
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<GreatSUN>
if variable.split('4').size == 2
<dagobah>
Good idea!
<GreatSUN>
dagobah: while when you want to get the part of the string with numbers where you only want thos numbers with only one 4 in it, there is no way around regex
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<RubyRonin>
so I tried to bundle install my gem file, requiring rails 4.0.1. and got the following
<RubyRonin>
In Gemfile: rails (=4.0.1) x86 -mingw32
<RubyRonin>
activesupport (= 4.0.1) x86 -mingw32
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<RubyRonin>
should I just bundle update or do something else?
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<workmad3>
RubyRonin: you mean you edited the rails version in your Gemfile to 4.0.1 and then did a 'bundle install' to update the version?
<RubyRonin>
yes
<workmad3>
RubyRonin: if so, run 'bundle update rails' instead
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<RubyRonin>
whats the difference between bundle update, and bundle update rails?
<workmad3>
RubyRonin: a 'bundle install' after a version change only unlocks that specific version, not any of its dependencies... with a gem that's more of a meta-gem of dependencies like rails, you need to do a 'bundle update <gem-name>' to unlock dependencies too
<workmad3>
RubyRonin: 'bundle update rails' unlocks just rails + dependencies for re-resolution
<workmad3>
RubyRonin: while 'bundle update' unlocks all gems for re-resolution
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<workmad3>
RubyRonin: a.k.a. don't run 'bundle update' without any arguments unless you're *really* confident that your project will still work with a completely new set of gems
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<GreatSUN>
re
<RubyRonin>
ok thanks
<workmad3>
RubyRonin: that said, if you have a decent test suite, you can run 'bundle update', run your tests to see if everything still works and, if it doesn't, revert the changes to Gemfile.lock to get back to old versions :)
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<workmad3>
RubyRonin: so bundler does make it quite easy to experiment (just make sure you always commit changes to Gemfile.lock pretty sharpish)
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<RubyRonin>
roger that
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<_br_>
What is the most clever way to embedd a app running on nodejs stack into a rack/sinatra app? rack map + iframe?
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<shevy>
jarr0dsz how did you install ruby
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<jarr0dsz>
its under a ruby on rails project , with rvm i assume some of the gems included debase which causes this issue
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<shevy>
hmm perhaps rvm did something to it
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<shevy>
the name of the gem is "debugger-ruby_core_source" ?
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<apeiros_>
_br_: if iframe is the answer, your question is wrong.
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<inad922>
Is there a way in ruby to hibernate a string so to save a string "#{asdf}" as is and interpolate on it later?
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<banister>
inad922 wrap it in a proc
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<banister>
inad922 proc { |x| "#{x}" }
<banister>
my_proc.("hello")
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<inad922>
Banister: Sounds simple enough
<inad922>
Thans
<inad922>
thanks*
<inad922>
Banister: Is there a way to do it in a way that I only have to call a paramless function on it?
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<_br_>
apeiros_: I suspect as much. But I'm not quite sure how to approach this problem. Nodejs project is a standalone app which gives me a specific functionality. Ruby/Rack/Sinatra app is a different website. App to app communication internally runs over apache thrift. Question is now just how to make the client end work properly. (getting e.g. header, footer from the ruby app and the content from the node app). Thinking of rack-reverse-pro
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<devians>
hola! I want to run a ruby program in production via rack middleware. I use nginx. can anyone point me to some good pointers? I'm pulling blanks on google
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<_br_>
Never mind my question. Seems the best solution is to do requests on the rack/sinatra end completely proxying away the node app.
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<shevy>
inad922, just use default assignment via =
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<waxjar>
in that case you might as well use proc { "test" } or even just "test", since the value you're gonna interpolate is already known, no?
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<apeiros_>
devians: passenger can run rack apps via nginx
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<devians>
apeiros_ i was thinking of utilising unicorn and reverse proxying nginx. do you think either method has particular merit?
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<apeiros_>
devians: should work too. I have not enough experience running these settings. I'd ask in #rubyonrails (rails is a rack-app too - so any experience there probably applies the same to another rackapp)
<devians>
fair enough. i'm not really a ruby programmer but I seem to be forever deploying ruby apps in a sysadminny roles
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<jlebrech>
does any here use doorkeeper gem? i'm trying to get it to respond with jsonp but instead it returns the authorisation code with surrounding html?
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<highbass>
Hey Guys... i am having a wierd regex issue (http://pastebin.com/h03XfxVE) .. i have a slice of a code that should fail according to my input because it matches the regex statement... however.. instead of failing it keeps passing ... does anyone know what i might be doing wrong?
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<hoelzro>
highbass: what value passes that regex that shouldn't?
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<hoelzro>
also, you probably shouldn't use a regex for this
<hoelzro>
I just used that in a talk I gave last week
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<sailias>
the regex is really malformed either way. He clearly only wants certain ports allowed, ie, 1-99, 200-255 etc. The regex isn't written correctly to accept port 443
<hoelzro>
a regex is not the right tool for this job, imo
<sailias>
highbass: test it in rubular.com
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<highbass>
sailias: i did and works perfectly fine
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<apeiros_>
to_i =~ # <-- funny
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<apeiros_>
that port regex seems like an IP regex…
<lupine>
that is pretty awful
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<highbass>
hoelzro: sorry i was away from keyboard...
<apeiros_>
4 segments of 0-255
<apeiros_>
"this is not the regexp you're looking for"
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<ahawkins>
yo guys, is there any reason "exit" should not exit the process? This process only dies with exit!
<ahawkins>
i know that exit! does not call at_exit handlers, but can an at_exit handler stop a shutdown?
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<linduxed>
so what do you think is the best way to do things in this situation: private method in class needs the content of one of the instance variables. should i use the variable or a private reader for the ivar?
<hoelzro>
linduxed: private reader
<mboyd>
good day! I have a ruby question about inheritance of variables. I have a class that I am inheriting from, and I am looking for an easy way to pull a constant variable from the parent class if it is defined there, or from the class that is extending the parent if it is defined there.
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<mboyd>
hmm
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<linduxed>
hoelzro: would you care to say why that's the better choice?
<hoelzro>
sure
<hoelzro>
it abstracts away the nature of the value behind code
<hoelzro>
is the value stored in the object? is it lazily generated? is it calculated every time?
<hoelzro>
you don't care, and you don't have to
<linduxed>
hmmm, yeah good point
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<linduxed>
i guess i'm kinda blinded by the fact that in this particular case it's not a big difference, nothing complicated going on
<linduxed>
ivar or accessor
<hoelzro>
right
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<hoelzro>
for me, it's a rule of thumb
<hoelzro>
there are good reasons to use an ivar instead
<linduxed>
but you're right that if it was more complicated it would have been more obvious
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<hoelzro>
but I favor accessors all other things being equa
<hoelzro>
*equal
<mboyd>
here is the "gist" of what I want to be able to do, I don't care if I have to create new methods, as long as I don't have to create them in all child classes: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7751278
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<mboyd>
anyone? :)
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<hoelzro>
hmm
<hoelzro>
mboyd: you could do something like this:
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<hoelzro>
class Parent def self.THINGS [:car] end end
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<hoelzro>
class Child < Parent def self.THINGS [:doll] end end
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<benzrf>
shevy: check out this quote
<benzrf>
When writing a modular program to solve a problem, one first divides the problem into subproblems, then solves the subproblems, and finally combines the solutions. The ways in which one can divide up the original problem depend directly on the ways in which one can glue solutions together. Therefore, to increase one's ability to modularize a problem conceptually, one must provide new kinds of glue in the programming language.
<benzrf>
Functional languages provide two new, very important kinds of glue... This is the key to functional programming’s power -- it allows improved modularization.
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<benzrf>
fp ftw
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<havenwood>
mboyd: That is proper use of constants, commented on your gist.
<havenwood>
isn't**
<havenwood>
>.>
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<mboyd>
havenwood: taking a look now
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<mboyd>
havenwood: I think that works for me! thanks!
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<havenwood>
mboyd: Explicitly defining the method #things on Dog calling `super` would work as well: class Dog < Parent; def things; super end end
<CalimeroTeknik>
however I don't understand priorities in the second one
<ccooke>
CalimeroTeknik: the "or" may be throwing you though. effectively, the second statement is: (puts hi) or ('hello' if polite)
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<ccooke>
puts "hi" will be executed first. puts returns nil, though, which is treated as false
<ccooke>
so the second part of the or is exectued
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<heftig_>
actually, it's (puts('hi') or 'hello') if polite
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<cbetta>
+1 heftig_
<CalimeroTeknik>
wait, note that if you set polite=false it puts nothing
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<ccooke>
point.
<ccooke>
heftig_: cheers
<CalimeroTeknik>
er, okay, I see now
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<joshu>
hi I don't know what I've done wrong but I've had a small sinatra ruby app running on heroku for months just fine until today. Heroku sent out an email regarding a security vulnerability in ruby and instructions on how to fix it by redeploying the app. I did this but I must have messed something up with bundler I think. Can someone please take a look https://gist.github.com/anonymous/87db5083e114beb1ddc8
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<joshu>
It seems that the problem is that I'm not requiring sinatra within my rb file, but I thought I had that covered in my gemfile. I would appreciate a second pair of eyes ;)
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<highbass>
how do you check if a variable is undef in ruby?
<DouweM>
defined?(var) or defined?(@ivar) etc
<highbass>
so if it returns true that its undef
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<hoelzro>
highbass: undef? you mean like Perl's undef?
<highbass>
hoelzro: yes... i am using puppet and you can set a variable to undef which is condered NULL
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<highbass>
need to detect that in my erb
<hoelzro>
oh, then I have no idea.
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<shevy>
damn... I keep on mixing up hoelzro and havenwood
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<shevy>
yeah but you are like a million times more active
<shevy>
I kinda look only on the first character
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<shevy>
highbass is also adding to the confusion
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<waxjar>
use a client that colorises nicknames :D
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<waxjar>
the syntax highlighting of irc
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<shevy>
I will simply think that all h-nicks are havenwood, that is much simpler :D
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<ravster>
hey all. I'm trying to use sidetiq. The basic usage is at https://github.com/tobiassvn/sidetiq/wiki/Basic-Usage . Does anyone know if there is a way to easily specify "do once every weekday"? If not, I'm thinking I'll just use the Time.wday function in my code instead of doing it on the sidetiq side. TIA
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<momomomomo>
ravster: Looks like sidetiq dsl is based on that project
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<ravster>
momomomomo: will do. thanks.
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<nullsign_>
question: if a ruby package wants to install a gem, which is too old to run on the new ubuntu, what file would i look at to change the hardcoded gem version# so i can get it to compile?
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<sam113101>
nullsign_: the gemfile
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<nullsign_>
cool, thats what i thought.
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<wonderworld>
hi, i am trying to setup a ruby on rails application with apache. i have no experience with Ruby at all and fail to make apache run the app with passenger. might this be the right channel to get help? thanks.
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<shevy>
Hanmac1 why are you missing on #OpenRubyRMK
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<Hanmac>
shevy: was there something important i did miss?
<shevy>
no
<shevy>
but you should idle there too
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<matti>
shevy: ;]
<shevy>
matti what kind of evil code are you up to as of late?
<matti>
shevy: Total World Domination iPhone app.
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<shevy>
hehe
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<matti>
shevy: It looks like My Little Pony adventure game.
<matti>
;]
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<fanfan>
Hi everyone, I want to run a script which use the gem net-ssh so I installed it but my script gives me that error: /root/deploy/lib/BkDeployBackend.rb:2:in `require': no such file to load -- net/ssh (LoadError). Thx
<fanfan>
My gem list
<fanfan>
*** LOCAL GEMS ***
<fanfan>
net-sftp (2.1.2)
<fanfan>
net-ssh (2.7.0)
<fanfan>
rubygems-update (1.3.7)
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<Hanmac>
fanfan: do you use rvm or chenv or something similar?
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<fanfan>
Hanmac: no just ruby 1.8.7 installed by package
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<Hanmac>
you need newer ruby, then your problem will disapear too
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<fanfan>
Ok thx, I'll try
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<Jabberwock>
files.count is 0 unless I comment out line 19
<Jabberwock>
And not seeing any obvious reason.
<Jabberwock>
Darnit, brb. Phone.
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<Jabberwock>
path_is_ignored appears to work as expected.
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<yeboot>
is there a ruby equivalent to python -i
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<popl>
not that I am aware of
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<mboyd>
I'm hving some trouble with proxying a ruby class, I found a blog post about doing it, and everything works fine until "instance_eval" is called on the proxy object
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<waxjar>
why do you specifically check for instance_eval (which may also take a block, btw)?
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<mboyd>
I was doing that as a workaround to try and resolve the issue. I get exactly the same error on the other line when I change that to :instance_eval_commented
<mboyd>
waxjar: the line looks like this: international_payment_bulk_element.when_present(15)
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<mboyd>
but I'm not sure how much that's going to mean without the rest of the code and libraries etc
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<waxjar>
from the exception I'm guessing somewhere you try to access something called "identifier", but that's not in the scope of the object you're proxying.
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<mboyd>
waxjar: I apologize, you mean the code after the call to instance_config, I've tried to debug that, but it won't let me go past the proxy class for the instance_config call
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<mboyd>
*instance_eval
<waxjar>
anyway, your proxy class works fine I think, the fault is with the code you're trying to instance_eval
<mboyd>
in basic_object.rb from the ruby libs, that method is just a stub of some sort with no real code that I can see
<mboyd>
ah
<mboyd>
but it works when I don't use the proxy, and use the class directly
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<h0rrorvacui>
So ffi isn't maintained no more right? What is going to happen to all the gems that use it?
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<shevy>
it's not?
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<h0rrorvacui>
I just read that it was shutdown due to license issues.
<h0rrorvacui>
Supposedly in october some time.
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<ddd>
not seeing anything about it on the repo
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<h0rrorvacui>
I know.. but its on the ruby5 podcast and was posted on hacker news
<ddd>
i would think the core repo and its wiki would have something on it if that were true
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<terrellt>
It was shut down for a day.
<terrellt>
JRuby guys picked up maintenence.
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<h0rrorvacui>
okay thats good to hear
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<RubyPanther>
do a lot use it? I know it has always had loud proponents, but I thought in practice it was more of a theory that it could replace C.
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<h0rrorvacui>
Supposedly a lot of gems use it. I've used it and it just works.
<h0rrorvacui>
Its really useful.
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<mboyd>
our ruby stack is using it
<ddd>
iirc, nokogiri uses it as well
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<spike|spiegel>
no, used to, nokogiri after 1.5.0 doesn't
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<_br_>
A bit OT, but any idea what a good solution / tool would be used to change urls inside files? Think mod_rewrite but edit content before its sent to client.
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<RubyPanther>
_br_: sed
<RubyPanther>
_br_: more specifically, mod_sed
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<_br_>
RubyPanther: Nice, didn't know about that one! Thanks :)
<RubyPanther>
apache has everything :)
<_br_>
seems so, wow
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<shevy>
"GNU Cobol is an open-source COBOL compiler, which translates COBOL programs to C code and compiles it using GCC."
<shevy>
guys
<shevy>
this is the future
<RubyPanther>
shevy, I've already been there for years, it is everything it sounds like
<RubyPanther>
I've already used one of the OSS cobol compilers to embed Ruby, it went pretty well
<shevy>
haha oh man
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<RubyPanther>
I'd actually rather freeze a COBOL codebase, and add new features with an add-on language, than get stuck with generated C
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<jle`>
cina: the difference between concurrency and parallelism is that parallelism usually involves running the same task in several isolated, non-interacting systems, and aggregating the results at the end. concurrency usually involves having multiple tasks or threads all working and doing different things at the same time and interacting often with the same system/memory.
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<apeiros>
jle`: that's not the definition of the difference
<apeiros>
jle`, cina: concurrency and parallelism both mean that multiple things are done "at the same time". but with concurrent, the "at the same time" may be achieved by slicing the work and interleaving it. that's what single core cpus have done for ages.
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<apeiros>
parallelism on the other hand means that things truly happen at the same time. this can only be achieved by parallel hardware (multiple cores, multiple cpus, multiple computers, etc.)
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<jle`>
fair enough
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<RubyPanther>
jle`: Also, in traditional unix programming with fork/exec there is typically nothing shared except as required to aggregate the result, if applicable, and that is a classic example of concurrency
<terrellt>
apeiros: Don't forget two guys counting on their fingers at the same time.
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<jle`>
i think where i learned it, parallel means executing the same task several times in parallel, and concurrent means executing different interacting tasks. that might be more of a 'conceptual' definition than an implementation one.
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<RubyPanther>
sadly, the transputer never caught on :( I wasted a lot of time learning that crap in the 90s
<jle`>
maybe possibly non-interacting then
<RubyPanther>
I don't think you can even buy a modern parallel computer
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<apeiros>
jle`: possible that multiple contradicting definitions exist
<jle`>
indeed, hence fair enough
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<RubyPanther>
parallel computing is well defined and I agree with apeiros that it means really at the same time and using hardware. Concurrency isn't as well defined, but it is when conceptually you're doing more than one thing at a time and not having to lock/switch
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<gnulover>
hi
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<slash_nick>
Does ruby 1.8 have anything in stdlib for converting an array to json?
<MrZYX>
the only thing 1.8 has is at least one unpatched security issue
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<Bdawk>
in an erb file, is there a way for me to initiate a user download of a text file containing a string
<shevy>
gem "json", "~> 1.8.1"
<shevy>
does this mean ruby version 1.8.1 ?
<MrZYX>
no?
<MrZYX>
json gem version 1.8.1 to 1.8.x
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<slash_nick>
nah, the 1.8 series was introduced in 2013... so doubtful
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<gnulover>
i have heard cool things about Ruby, is it a good language to start with?
<MrZYX>
yes
<havenwood>
gnulover: really lovely
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<havenwood>
gnulover: i've heard several people recommend 'Learn to Program' by Chris Pine, which is in Ruby
<gnulover>
I have programmed on Windows with C++ ( u know basics ) I made a cool program that use a local language and it was the coolest thing I did apart from Numerical Converters
<gnulover>
I am using Arch right now
<havenwood>
gnulover: Nice, Arch keeps the Ruby package all shiny and up to date. ;)
<shevy>
well
<shevy>
C++ is quite far away from scripting languages gnulover
<shevy>
start with php
<shevy>
then when you start to hate it, switch to ruby
<shevy>
:>
<RubyPanther>
Ruby is only a good language if you love Ruby. Larry Wall said (in the 90s) that if you want to do everything with OOP then Ruby is better than Perl. But if you want to do things with procedural programming, then Perl is better.
<gnulover>
is ruby a good option for some1 who wants to host small person on his own webserver .. programs like Numerical converters and tax calculators
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<havenwood>
gnulover: Check out Pry (an alternative to irb), using a REPL is a great way to learn: http://pryrepl.org/
<havenwood>
gnulover: Have you gone through tryruby.org yet?
<gnulover>
havenwood, no i didn't
<havenwood>
i'd recommend
<RubyPanther>
gnulover: for just that, actually PHP is probably better unless a person has a passion for Ruby, because PHP has better beginner help. Ruby has better expert help.
<gnulover>
shevy, I didn't know any other language but C,C++,Java back then
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<MrZYX>
these days I'd recommend javascript over PHP if it's really just numerical converter stuff
<gnulover>
ok
<havenwood>
i'd recommend Ruby
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<gnulover>
Ok if we talk about converting these numerical conversion programs in GUI apps then?
<miah>
php has better beginner help, but i'd dare say it leads you to quite a few antipatterns
<havenwood>
stay away from php imho
<miah>
+1
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<miah>
reading POODR really helped me grasp ruby. that and The Well Grounded Rubyist
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<shevy>
gnulover just go with php and remember to come back to ruby when you are sick with it
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<RubyPanther>
any language other than $FAVORITE is going to be full of anti-patterns though, even all the good ones
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<gnulover>
Can Ruby help me make GUI apps ?
<shevy>
yeah
<miah>
RubyPanther: possibly true. i just feel like php has suffered from not being OOP or Imperative really. its kind of a mishmash of chaos.
<shevy>
gnulover use ruby-gnome bindings
<miah>
i'd rather point people towards python than php
<RubyPanther>
Not really. It can do GUI apps just fine, but you generally need to know what you're doing already because very few of us actually use it for that
<shevy>
naaah
<havenwood>
gnulover: You can go the JRuby route and use Swig, or there are several bindings to gtk/tk/whatev in MRI.
<shevy>
python is a legit contender
<miah>
shevy: yup
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<shevy>
php on the other hand is a language people won't use for too long! unless they go professional
<gnulover>
See guys I found Python as the simplest language to start with but then a few people i know told me that Ruby is a good option or Perl if I want to be a cool system admin or manage my own Webserver in spare time for fun or work doesn't matter. They also added that Ruby vs Python vs Perl is upto u
<shevy>
well see
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<shevy>
ruby is the better perl
<RubyPanther>
For example, I write Gtk Ruby apps, which is really a great experience for me. But so few people do it, new Ruby versions often have trouble compiling the Gtk bindings, and it takes a long time for them to be updated.
<shevy>
so perl should not be in that pool of choices
<miah>
im a cool sysadmin and i know jack about perl. other than it reminds me of when my mom would pickup the phone while i was dialed into a bbs
<havenwood>
Perl6 looks a lot like Ruby :)
<miah>
perl6 has been in 'not a release yet' for ~12 years
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<RubyPanther>
If you want to do everything with OOP, which most people do these days, then Perl would be a dubious choice
<shevy>
gnulover python is legit though, more people use it, it has stronger or larger bindings etc.. etc..
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<RubyPanther>
When I switched from Perl to Ruby in 2004, I'd already been waiting years for Perl 6
<miah>
python is definitely legit. used quite a bit in the scientific community too.
<shevy>
hehe
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<shevy>
we have a RubyPanther here though, that's worth something
<miah>
when i worked mostly with mit/harvard researchers they were all python nuts
<shevy>
there is no PythonPanter on #python
<RubyPanther>
Perl is so complicated, my own code gave me NIH syndrome if it was over 6 months old
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<shevy>
hmm
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<havenwood>
gnulover: Ruby is nice because it gives you an introduction concepts from Lisp and functional programming. Prepares you to Haskell, Clojure, Elixir, etc if you later need to.
<miah>
perl can be fine if you train yourself not to use special variables ala @_
<shevy>
there were two things I disliked about perl - my own code confused me when I looked at it months later... and I often forgot ';'
<miah>
otherwise its just line noise
<gnulover>
Ok then I would try Ruby first if not then Python
<havenwood>
gnulover: Nice to have a pleasant shallow end that goes to an actually deep, deep end.
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<shevy>
gnulover ruby has some things where it is better than python
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<Hanmac>
a Panther beats a python ;P
<shevy>
gnulover no explicit self is a good point for ruby
<jle`>
gnulover: i personally recommend ruby, the concepts you learn set you up better than python does it think
<gnulover>
havenwood, Haskell is what a senior BSD programmer recoommeded me. He said go with it kid you are gonna explore a whole new world
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<RubyPanther>
If you're allergic to @_ you aren't even using Perl, certainly not using it right. I agree I don't want them, but I disagree that they are bad Perl. ;)
<jle`>
and python's language design has a lot to be desired
<shevy>
well
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<shevy>
haskell is not really a lightweight scripting language
<jle`>
python has great library and development ecosystem and user base, but all of that is despite the language, nto because of it
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<shevy>
someone tell me the size of the smallest but very functional haskell interpreter! if it is ghci, show me one under 30 MB in size!
<miah>
i think you need a phd to appreciate haskell
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<shevy>
hehe
<shevy>
or you must be good in formal maths
<RubyPanther>
python is okay, I've had to use it for online classes, and there was never anything that bit me. It just, you know, tasted... lets just say I like the taste of Ruby better.
<gnulover>
miah, downloading that video ..
<jle`>
miah: not quite true
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<miah>
jle`: said mostly in jest =)
<shevy>
AND
<jle`>
ah :)
<shevy>
gnulover don't forget the monad pattern
<miah>
its certainly not something 'new' programmers would do well in
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<RubyPanther>
or use for anything later lol
<shevy>
gnulover ruby enforces a less rigid style onto you than python will
<jle`>
i have this extremely untested hypothesis that learning functional languages and learning imperative languages are equally hard/easy
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<gnulover>
for a newbie is Haskell a nightware or I can survive it ? but What would I use Haskell for anyways? lol
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<shevy>
dunno
<shevy>
I found Haskell very difficult
<miah>
jle`: probably true
<shevy>
scripting languages are a lot easier than Haskell
<jle`>
it's just that people come to Haskell with all that imperative indoctrination
<miah>
imperative is more waterfallish though. code flow is easier to grok
<jle`>
that they fight against it
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<miah>
functional.. you need to be good at mentally mapping all that
<jle`>
code flow is easier to grok, but code flow is just one way to look at programming
<shevy>
I have an awful brain
<shevy>
that's why I need a computer to assist me
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<gnulover>
shevy, havenwood is there a guide to General Programming - like which language to choose and why?
<miah>
sure, but when you're new. the way code looks is a big assist
<havenwood>
gnulover: Haskell is a general purpose programming language. John Carmack even re-wrote Doom i think it was in Haskell. But Ruby is just lovely. Though Python has similarities with Ruby, I very much prefer Ruby.
<jle`>
there might be just as effective and just as elegant ways to look at programming than "code flow"
<havenwood>
gnulover: There is no consensus on those matters.
<shevy>
gnulover no idea... I started with perl then php then ruby, at this point it's been years since I looked to any guide like that you mentioned
<havenwood>
gnulover: Ruby too is a general purpose programming language.
<RubyPanther>
jle`: I agree. But I'd also say that learning to do something useful in imperative languages is much, much easier, and learning to do something in functional languages involves deciding which way of simulating imperative programming is still Pure enough, and then jumping constantly through n hoops (where the more pure your functional programming, the more hoops you'll need)
<Methylated>
Go with Python then branch out to any language you want
<shevy>
gnulover but really start with php, months later you will pick ruby or python anyway :)
<Methylated>
python will teach you to indent .. it's very important
<jle`>
haha
<miah>
i've dabbled in all sorts. pythons really strict whitespacing stuff drove me crazy at the beginning
<shevy>
lol
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<shevy>
I indent in ruby as well!
<Methylated>
nobody will read your code if you don't know how to indent
<miah>
especially without a ide to manage that automatically
<shevy>
but the ruby parser is clever, it does not matter if I indent or not
<miah>
true, but rubocop does =)
<jle`>
i do recommend ruby first
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<shevy>
python parser is like a whining baby, if you don't indent correctly, it will scream and fail like a hipster who is trying to rollerblade for the first time in his life
<havenwood>
Methylated: Psh, Ruby community balk harder than your interpreter if you fail with indentation.
<jle`>
ruby has the best components/aspects of so many paradigms and languages
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<miah>
<3 ruby. though no programming language is perfect
<jle`>
python sets you up for...what?
<jle`>
C?
<miah>
there is a right language for the job maybe
<jle`>
Java?
<RubyPanther>
Methylated: Ruby teaches that, too, by convention, and difference is, if you don't indent with 2 spaces you'll be reviled only by humans, not by the interpreter
<jle`>
hardly even Java
<shevy>
miah when is php right
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<miah>
shevy: when you're in hell
<gnulover>
guys look I am a lawyer .. was a computer buff in high school .. Didnt have internet back then .. so I began testin various OS like Linux/BSD etc and I love FreeBSD and Arch so far.. I love to manage my dad's firm's systems on my own and evne admin them ..
<shevy>
hehehehe
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<gnulover>
I want to setup my own webserver/mail server now and things like that
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<havenwood>
gnulover: i'm a lawyer too, lawyers love Ruby
<miah>
gnulover: cool
<jle`>
webserver to what ends?
<shevy>
gnulover so what I am not a programmer either. ruby is just a glue language I use for everything I need to have automated on the computer
<jle`>
a web app?
<shevy>
damn
<shevy>
you lawyers begin to scare me
<jle`>
if you just want to put pages on the internet
<RubyPanther>
PHP is right when the use case is the same as the inventor of PHP's use case; needing to program, but hating programming, and disagreeing with general concepts of "best practices" according to programmers
<jle`>
then go with a LAMP stack
<miah>
i've been doing 'ops' for ~16 years. only recently started to really 'program'.
<shevy>
ops?
<RubyPanther>
or like, when your top feature is newb support
<Methylated>
No language "sets you up" for any other language. Ruby is fun to code in but none of the metaprogramming stuff nor any of the "neat" features will be used or appreciated by a newcomer. Ruby sets you up to hate every other programming language that does care about semantics
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<shevy>
Methylated you have a cool nick btw
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<miah>
shevy: web operations, sysadmining, whatever you want to call it. 'i run big sites on the internet'
<shevy>
oh I see
<havenwood>
RubyPanther: I think PHP is great for your "Personal Home Page", but why bother learning a lang that isn't general purpose when there are so many nicer ones out there?
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<gnulover>
So I want to learn a lanaguage that might help me with Sys admin/Webservers etc you know? I once read a book by local hackers .. it said learn a programming language first.. It said Perl in 1999 or 2002
<RubyPanther>
Ruby cares as much about _semantics_ as anything
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<shevy>
havenwood they must learn it so they can appreciate the true awesomeness of languages better designed!
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<jle`>
gnulover: perl has been the canonical language for that purpose in the past
<miah>
gnulover: as a 'ops' person. i say, learn Ruby.
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<miah>
its really general purpose
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<terrellt>
gnulover: Puppet/Chef are written in Ruby and is a devops' dream. Just saying.
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<havenwood>
gnulover: There is a reason all the deployment tools seem to be written in Ruby (Chef, Puppet, etc), it is great for such things.
<shevy>
well perl can be a bit rough
<miah>
i'm a big chef nerd
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<jle`>
shevy: hence 'past'
<RubyPanther>
havenwood: sure, but that's the use case; when having to do general purpose programming is an unwanted thing, but they still want to be the one making a website
<shevy>
perl did not age well... if only perl6 would have replaced perl5! :(
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<RubyPanther>
Perl 5 is better than Perl 6 in almost every way, though
<shevy>
well in one part at least
<shevy>
in making standalone releases
<miah>
perl is a strange community.
<Methylated>
Python has instant gratafication with things like Turtle. Ruby tries to implement this but Python is the de-facto lanague for people starting to code IMO and in my experience teaching people to code. Ruby is simple Engish and can be learned by anyone, developer or not. It doens't shine until you get to more advanced programming concepts and really know your way around
<shevy>
parrot wants me to have perl5 to compile it (????!!!)
* gnulover
thanks for support and all help :p Loving it here!
<Methylated>
Perl is pure garbage. Stay away from it and condem anyone who still uses it.
<miah>
Methylated: agreed.
<havenwood>
Perl11 run either Perl5 or Perl6 code (Fibonacci versioning?!)
<shevy>
that's like telling people to use ruby 1.8.7 when you want to compile ruby 2.x
<havenwood>
Perl2 runs on the Potion VM
<havenwood>
_why's project
<miah>
ruby is neat. but then when you learn the OOP side of things its awesome.
<RubyPanther>
Perl 5 was Larry Wall's rewrite of Perl. Perl 6 was the community's rewrite. Who is a better language designer, linguist Larry Wall, or a committee of Perl hackers?
<jle`>
Methylated: a newcomer would not appreciate, but they would be exposed right off the bat to idiomatic code that helps them understand features from a wide variety of paradigms
<shevy>
Larry rocks
<havenwood>
Perl6 used Ruby as the template off which to build
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<gnulover>
miah, shevy havenwood jle` RubyPanther Thanks a zillion
<Methylated>
I'm currently rewriting a 6000 line perl script into an actual app (in ruby). Larry does rock, and perl gives you cool points the same way smoking cigarettes gives you cool points.. but perl should be abolished
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<shevy>
hehe
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<shevy>
Methylated what's those 6000 lines do?
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<miah>
no class should be more than 100 lines.
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<RubyPanther>
shevy: No, it is more like JRuby asking you to have the current MRI.
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<miah>
6000 line files are terrifying
<shevy>
RubyPanther and java too? :(
<shevy>
hey
<shevy>
let me count my compile.rb file ...
<miah>
at least go with clojure if youre going to deal with the jvm
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<Methylated>
There are no classes. It's 6000 lines that just implement a RESTful API. The API isn't very restful and the rewrite is expected to be no more than 200 lines and a few gems long. documented and all.
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<miah>
Methylated: nice
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<shevy>
3019 lines! but including comments (about 1000 lines) and blank, empty newlines (I guess 100 or 200)
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<RubyPanther>
If you wanted to have a config file in the host language, it is normal to expect an older version. Where do compilers come from? They're compiled by older compilers.
<mboyd>
havenwood: I'm having some trouble with proxying a ruby class, I found a blog post about doing it, and everything works fine until "instance_eval" is called on the proxy object
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<RubyPanther>
Methylated: that is the danger of the expressiveness of Perl; it appeals to people who like to be expressive, who actually need a language to help them stay organized.
<miah>
config files need to be in a standard dsl, like ebnf, or json. otherwise they should be nuked from orbit. so tired of the over 9000 config file dsl's
<Methylated>
We have 4 ruby developers trying to decipher what this perl mess is trying to do. The developer was an old school 'h4x0r' but ironically the entire site has been vulnerable to SQL injection and XSS errors. This is a full site running a 10 billion dollar business
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<shevy>
cool
<miah>
as a person who has to write code that interfaces with configuration files and daemonized processes.. the lack of a api to those processes or a standard config file language drives me crazy
<havenwood>
perl whitenoise == job security
<shevy>
:D
<Methylated>
before this I had no opinions against perl etc.
<miah>
that type of job security is not really job security
<shevy>
COBOL still exists!
<jle`>
effective job security
<miah>
its pigeonholing yourself into hell for eternity.
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<RubyPanther>
Somebody with a disciplined, ordered mind might follow consistent rules naturally, and write great Perl. Somebody like me, I'm trying to make it look nice, and there are 12 different ways it could look, by the end of a 10 line function that is like, 1000 different things I might have done, 300 of which have aesthetic positives
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<RubyPanther>
I did 2.5 hours of COBOL consulting last year, it definitely is still "out there"
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<shevy>
RubyPanther you must have a wicked mind
<blaskovicz>
is retry used very often in code?
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<shevy>
blaskovicz don't think so, at least I don't seem to need it
<jle`>
there is a cobol 2002 after all
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<shevy>
begin/rescue/end seems usually more than enough
<slap_stick>
hey, is there a nice way other than using each do or each { } iterator, to take the keys form one hash and look them up in another hash? well, it's an enumerator object from both yaml files
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<Methylated>
havenwood: exactly. The guy works from home and comes to work once every 10 months to see the progress (actuallly for us to ask WTF his code is supposed to do) and he rarely remembers what his own perl code was written to do. nothing against perl developers but there's nothing romantic about squeezing an entire app or an entire OS into a single line of code. It's a neat feat and great for perl golf but not something that should exist outside the machines in
<blaskovicz>
i used it for failing to send a http post
<blaskovicz>
retry unless do_retry type of thing
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<RubyPanther>
shevy: I know, right? I write some code and I'm like, "oh yeah, wicked" and a year later I go in for a bugfix and I'm like, "who wrote this wicked WTF?"
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<blaskovicz>
RubyPanther i think that's a good thing lol
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<blaskovicz>
and that happens to me too
<RubyPanther>
In Ruby there are technically 3 or 4 ways, but 1 of them is clearly labeled as correct. Creativity is more focused.
<blaskovicz>
im coming from more of a perl background, trying to switch to ruby
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<RubyPanther>
Now I look at code from a year ago, and instead of "wtf... wait... wth?" it is only, "yeah I could have done that better"
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<gnulover>
What is Ruby on Rails?
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<miah>
rails is a web framework
<gnulover>
Ok
<terrellt>
Arguably a good one.
<miah>
there is also sinatra
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<miah>
rails holds your hand more though
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<RubyPanther>
just don't ask it to let go
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<terrellt>
It takes some practice to be able to pry its hand off, for sure.
* gnulover
Hosting a Ruby program on webserver
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<gnulover>
best way to learn HTML again ( I know it ) but for updates I learned it in 2002
<blaskovicz>
<iframe>
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<gnulover>
Ya Guys ya all were right .. Whole FreeBSD community says use Ruby .. Python is simple but Ruby dude! :p
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<RubyPanther>
Ruby does come from a *nix tradition
<shevy>
going from perl to ruby is more logical than perl to python
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<shevy>
only debian still uses perl... in apt or dpkg I think
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<RubyPanther>
according to CPAN it is still popular. They're probably happy not to have seen a newb in years, too.
<mboyd>
yeah, ruby shares an unfortunate amount of syntactical ambiguity with perl
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<shevy>
hey
<RubyPanther>
And people like me who can't write Perl that they can themselves read later, we've probably all switched. Perl is probably the best it has ever been. :P
<shevy>
what is ambigous
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<shevy>
and where is perl as flexible as ruby in syntax decisions one can make
<Eiam>
If you have to comment to explain the line of code, its probably a bad line of code =(
<gnulover>
shevy, Whole FreeBSD community says Arch dude with Webserver needs .. Use Ruby! but seniors say Haskell there .. Idk y
<mboyd>
x.get_element("bob") vs. x get_element "bob" for one
<shevy>
that's not the same
<RubyPanther>
Eiam: most of my comments # FIXME: kludge
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<RubyPanther>
If I wanted my code to be self-documenting, I'd write tests.
<shevy>
RubyPanther are you still banned from #ruby btw?
<RubyPanther>
no, I'm right here
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
I meant #ruby-lang :\
<RubyPanther>
probably
<shevy>
for some reason I assumed #ruby was the ruby channel ...
<Eiam>
miah: rails does not "hold your hand more"
<shevy>
rails rolls over your hand more
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<miah>
Eiam: than sinatra?
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<Eiam>
miah: I just take issue with the statement that rails "holds your hand". I don't think it holds your hand at all. Rails fills your hands up with a bunch of shit you may or may not need, probably don't understand whats in your hands or how it got there, then expects you to start molding stuff with your full hands
<miah>
im not really a rails programmer. but it seems to be that rails is much easier to grasp for newbies than sinatra. more docs, bigger community, more newb friendly.
<Eiam>
if you just want a basic restful service, I'd certainly recommend Sinatra over Rails
<Eiam>
less magic, more obvious
<miah>
Eiam: oh of course
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<miah>
same reason i use minitest instead of rspec
<miah>
but for somebody new to the language. sometimes magic is good until they get a little more comfortable.
<RubyPanther>
of course rails holds your hand, and tells you what to put in it. That is the whole point of the hand-holding. If you want a "basic restful service" the word "basic" already says you don't want hand-holding.
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<miah>
thats why chef/puppet are pretty cool. you can learn the dsl and be productive. then you can learn ruby and own the world.
<RubyPanther>
"basic" is another word for "do-it-yourself"
<miah>
this also assumes you know what 'rest' means =)
<miah>
or how you'd even design a restful interface
<RubyPanther>
exactly, and know also to want it
<Eiam>
I disagree about the magic
<miah>
magic can get in the way
<Eiam>
my first foray into Ruby was actually with Rails and it was *incredibly* confusing.
<RubyPanther>
rails you don't need to know all that. You just need to know, "Rails! And ponies! Yay!" and you're ready for the tut
<miah>
everybody is different
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<Eiam>
I didn't understand how or why things did what they did, and I couldn't see how anything fit together (because that code was all *way* below me, as magical Rails layers)
<miah>
and im not trying ot make a blanket statement that applies to everybody. but based on my experience with it, thats what i found.
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<miah>
Eiam: sure
<miah>
i get that
<Eiam>
Rails has a ton of built in assumptions about things that "just work this way" so the code does not self document. you write a method in a specific place and it just "behaves" in a way, but there are no ties in the code telling you its behavior will be that way due to its locations and rails assumptions/magic
<RubyPanther>
when I started with rails, there were 2 common choices for deployment... as a CGI, or using mod_ruby (restricted to one app per apache instance)
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<Eiam>
when you understand it, its fine.
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<Eiam>
when you don't, its really frustrating and time consuming.
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<Eiam>
RubyPanther: I guess if you are bringing up the app yourself sure
<Eiam>
RubyPanther: I was dropped in to an existing rails app to extend & fix it
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<RubyPanther>
Eiam: Sure, but that implies that you're not doing one of the things that is in the list of things there is hand-holding for
<shevy>
Eiam did you succeed without having to take drugs?
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<Eiam>
shevy: I succeeded in two things, first I was able to extend & repair things as requested and second, I was able to kill rails so we stopped using it in our future projects ;)
<Eiam>
so double win.
<RubyPanther>
Eiam: being dropped in on an existing rails app is as bad as doing Perl bugfixes.
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<RubyPanther>
I guess I'm the rare weirdo, I'd actually rather fix a weird bug than write new code
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<Eiam>
and I'm happy to report the rails app is deployed off some route like /oldshit/myRailsApp/ and no one has visited it in quite awhile =)
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<Eiam>
probably cause I hid the URL from them. stupid user!
<Eiam>
users!
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<Eiam>
always finding bugs
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<RubyPanther>
Lusers 0
<Eiam>
RubyPanther: meh, that has its place in coding, but not when I'm under pressure to deliver stuff
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<RubyPanther>
That is the beauty of bugs, their requirements rarely change under deadlines
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<Eiam>
selfish bugs.
<AntelopeSalad>
there's no array method that will let me move an item from position x to position y right? i would have to pop/insert it as 2 operations?
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<RubyPanther>
Anyways, if you're Agile you can just deliver it whenever. It always works, it is always ready. There are either more changes for the next cycle, or not. Yikes.
<Eiam>
see also: "why software development estimates are so wildly inaccurate so often1"
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<gnulover>
Ruby vs Python everywhere
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<Eiam>
gnulover: preference in some ways based on the user. they are both great languages that people do great things with.
<mboyd>
so has anyone else run into an issue with proxying a call to instance_eval?
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<Eiam>
I used python before learning ruby. both languages have their merits and I enjoy using both for different reasons. go play with them both and decide yourself, or learn both1
<Eiam>
!
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<MrZYX>
mboyd: explain your real problem
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<AntelopeSalad>
Eiam: i reviewed your solution and got it setup locally with my real data, it makes sense
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<MrZYX>
mboyd: ideally provide a minimal example demonstrating your issue
<Eiam>
AntelopeSalad: cool, I'm glad it worked out and makes sense to you
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<AntelopeSalad>
it is really just saying "element 2's value becomes element 0's value and element 0's value becomes element 2's value"
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<mboyd>
MrZYX: here's my problem, I want to proxy a Watir:Browser object so I can intercept the ID's of webpage elements behind the scenes, so when a cucumber failure happens I get the actual ID of the object that it failed to get/modify/poke during the failure without having to modify a lot of code
<mboyd>
the thing that is actually getting passed in is "div(identifier)" but the actual value of identifier is never passed in
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<mboyd>
MrZYX: thanks!
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<MrZYX>
yw
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<kaldrenon>
Is there a technique in ruby for listing all the classes currently defined? I want to dynamically generate a list of all defined subclasses of Foo -- how should I go about that?
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<kaldrenon>
MrZYX: That's excellent; I'm doing this in a rails app, didn't know rails added that.
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<pragmatism>
I have a boilerplate contract I've found that retains ownership of sourcecode while licensing it in pepertuity to the client. Why not just give them the source at the end of the project?
<canton7>
if they own the source, you can't re-use bits on other projects
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<DouweM>
i.e. you want to keep ownership of the source
<pragmatism>
Ahh, gotcha
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<pragmatism>
canton7: is that the only reason?
<canton7>
not sure if it's the only one, but it's a bloody bit one, and it's enough on its own to warrant that type of contract
<canton7>
s/bit/big
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<DouweM>
I guess you could also write a license explicitly permitting you to use the code and then forcing them to use that license, but that's pretty pointless
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<canton7>
typically people build up a collection of utilities and handy classes through different projects, which save a heck of a lot of time. you're fixing bugs with each client it's used with
<canton7>
can't do that if you give it away each time
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<pragmatism>
Right on, thanks all. That makes much more sense.
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<CorySimmons>
hi, I'm trying to collect ymls from a directory into an array, then load/append those yamls to a new array, then print a piece of data out of those yamls.
<CorySimmons>
I basically want to iterate over a list of ~10 yml's in a directory and print off each document title on the same webpage
<havenwood>
lethjakman: I like mechanize and httpclient in particular
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<MrZYX>
I like Faraday and Typhoeus if you need to do tons of requests
<havenwood>
lethjakman: But curb, patron and typhoeus use libcurl.
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<havenwood>
MrZYX: you use Typhoeus through Faraday?
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<MrZYX>
nope
<havenwood>
oh, either - gotcha
<s2013>
what woudl be best way for me to delete bunch of keys and add few others in a hash in one line? Is that even possible
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<MrZYX>
yup, faraday for simple things, usually just with net/http as backend
<havenwood>
MrZYX: Faraday supports Typhoeus adapter so i thought you maybe meant that.
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<s2013>
actually i need to add 1 key and delete couple
<MrZYX>
yeah, that was kinda misleading in retrospect :)
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<MrZYX>
last time I checked the typhoeus adapter for faraday actually didn't work well
<havenwood>
MrZYX: i've been meaning to play with Typhoeus, haven't looked at it since the codebase rewrite. I like the idea of combining blazing-fast curl with parallelism.
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<havenwood>
nice to have options :)
<MrZYX>
yeah, just prepare for huge memory spikes if you spawn multiple hydras with higher concurrency settings
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<MrZYX>
you also don't want to run it on older systems since back then curls resolver tends to segfault under high load
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<MrZYX>
so you need a curl with c-ares support or the new uhm threaded resolver or what it was called
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<MrZYX>
the latter being enabled in most up to date packages
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<bnagy>
s2013: looks like you need to chain merge and reject!, delete only takes a single arg, kinda lame
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<s2013>
im trying delete_if
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<s2013>
i think thats working as well
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<s2013>
and even if i deleted one key it wouldnt work cause it returns the value of the key deleted
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<bnagy>
delete_if / reject! same same
<s2013>
oh ok
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<bnagy>
well, not exactly
<s2013>
yeah i see the difference
<bnagy>
different return value
<s2013>
but i get the point
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<s2013>
delete_if is working. thanks
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<havenwood>
i like #delete_if, unless you're using the truthyness of #reject's nil
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<havenwood>
#reject!'s**
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<bnagy>
yeah it's better here, you'd have to hsh.merge(newstuff).reject! {|k,v| deletes.include? k} to be safe
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<bnagy>
which is probably bad if you're trying to replace things
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<s2013>
its just temporary stuff. writing a script to check for bad data
<s2013>
and logging that
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<RubyPanther>
s2013: if I was coding along and found that golfed into 1 line, I'd really want to stop and unwind it. ;)
<s2013>
huh
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<tjbiddle>
Anyone here used hiera outside of puppet?
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