apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.1.5; 2.0.0-p598; 1.9.3-p551: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste code on http://gist.github.com
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<LeDiegue> how are u?
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<wallerdev> good
<wallerdev> you?
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<LeDiegue> fine fine!
<LeDiegue> I'm hot
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<capin> evening guys and gals
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<ericwood> hi
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<oliver___> I thought that class variables could only be accessed from class methods and instance variables could only be accessed by instance methods, but it seems like I can access class variables from instance methods
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<ReinH> oliver___: correct
<oliver___> ReinH: good to know :) are class variables something that you usually want to avoid if not necessary?
<ReinH> I prefer to avoid them. They have some surprising behavior wrt subclasses.
<oliver___> ReinH: I see, thanks :)
<ReinH> np
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<bnagy> oliver___: avoid them if they're not neccessary. Supplemental: They're never neccessary.
<oliver___> bnagy: thanks, I just changed to instance variables instead, I just defined the variable straight inside the class and now it says undefined variable; I guess I have to put instance variables inside the constructor method
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<bnagy> oliver___: class instance variables are almost always what you want
<drbrain> oliver___: that is the best place to initialize them
<bnagy> you're probably just not accessing them correctly
<oliver___> so technically instance variables get set even if they
<oliver___> 're not inside the constructor method
<bnagy> sorry.... I mean if you thought you wanted @@classvar you probably wanted class @ivar
<drbrain> bnagy: I wish we had better ways of describing "class instance variables" vs "class variables"
<drbrain> oliver___: you can set them anywhere
<bnagy> :/ yeah. I wish we just didn't have class variables.
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<bnagy> like hahaha globals but only for anyone genetically related to this class in any way
<oliver___> hm, I put @defaults = { ... } inside constructor method, then I try to access it from inside a method in same class but it says undefined, do I have to define attr_reader to access it from inside the same class?
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<bnagy> oliver___: you're probably going to have to go through the whole process of learning about classes and instances
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<bnagy> not being condescending at all.. it takes time to get your head around
<bnagy> the fundamenta question is "what is 'self' right now?"
<oliver___> I'm used to being able to access private variables from inside the class in PHP, guess I'm not used to Ruby yet, actually just started with Ruby a short while ago
<bnagy> yeah you'll need to grok the way the OO works a bit better before it's natural
<oliver___> I see, basically what I tried to do was to access an variable that I set inside a class from inside a method of the same class, kind of like $this->variable works in PHP
<oliver___> will do some research, thanks :)
<bnagy> oliver___: right, so to do THAT you need to get a ref to your class, not to yourself
<bnagy> so like self.class.some_method
<bnagy> because self, for an instance method, is the instance
<oliver___> ah! that makes a lot of sense!
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<yorickpeterse> morning
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<yorickpeterse> apeiros_: ljarvis /ban juuio please, privmsg spam
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<yorickpeterse> we also might want to reconsider requiring registration
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<apeiros_> this is a loosing battle. the only party which can make a difference is freenode.
<apeiros_> *losing
<apeiros_> and those bots are registered. so no point in requiring a registration.
<yorickpeterse> hm
<ljarvis> heh
<apeiros_> freenode would have to kline users which exhibit specific patterns. such as privmsg the same to multiple people with no interaction otherwise.
<apeiros_> but I'm tired of asking them for change.
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<yorickpeterse> if you're lucky that will be implemented in 5 years
<yorickpeterse> we should just start our own network
<yorickpeterse> that would totally work
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<bnagy> or type /wc once every 4 days
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<yorickpeterse> /wc ?
<bnagy> close window
<yorickpeterse> hm, merges windows for me
<yorickpeterse> heh
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<darix> how would your own network help? if you get popular enough the bots will just follow.
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<yorickpeterse> it was a joke
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<ljarvis> /connect irc.ragingyorick.net
<ljarvis> /join #yorickrants
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<yorickpeterse> or just follow me on Twitter
<yorickpeterse> Bug of the day:
<yorickpeterse> Syslog.err("foo%20bar") triggers an ArgumentError
<yorickpeterse> because Unix
<yorickpeterse> well, because Ruby in this case
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<apeiros_> so Syslog.err has printf functionality? interesting
<apeiros_> but that seems to be consistent with the wrapped syslog call. man 3 syslog -> "message is identical to a printf(3) format string"
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<LeDiegue> hi!
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<darix> yorickpeterse: so Syslog.err("%20", "foo%20bar") ?
<yorickpeterse> darix: I think that should work, yes
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<ljarvis> all vim autocomplete plugins suck
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<RickHull> i'm running into some issues with github/travis that I don't have locally, regarding minitest
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<RickHull> the big issue right now is I am using minitest/benchmark, and the bench_range feature
<RickHull> via `rake bench` and BenchSpec
<RickHull> with warnings on
<RickHull> runnign locally, no warnings, and runs as expected
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<RickHull> on travis, I get a bunch of warnings, and the benchmark section exits 1, undefined method bench_range on <Class:blah blah>
<RickHull> i'm not using bundler locally, and travis is, so that is probably related
<RickHull> i execute tests (minitest/spec) separate from benchmarks, triggered by `rake test` and `rake bench` respectively; for now i have disabled rake bench on travis
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<RickHull> here is the output of `rake test` on travis, with many warnings (that I don't see locally) https://travis-ci.org/rickhull/conway_deathmatch/jobs/42851404
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<RickHull> here's a run with `rake bench` that fails: https://travis-ci.org/rickhull/conway_deathmatch/jobs/42847057
<RickHull> ... test/bench_board_state.rb:9:in `block in <top (required)>': undefined method `bench_range' for #<Class:0x000000020d6298> (NoMethodError)
<RickHull> seems pretty odd to have that NoMethodError
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<andrewvos> HOw can I create an enumerator that takes one element from two arrays at a atime
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<andrewvos> so [1,2].something([5,6]) -> [1,5,2,6]
<yorickpeterse> andrewvos: each_slice(2)
<andrewvos> .zip doesn't work when the first array is empty
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<yorickpeterse> >> [10, 20, 30, 40].each_slice(2).first
<eval-in__> yorickpeterse => [10, 20] (https://eval.in/230025)
<yorickpeterse> oh
<yorickpeterse> two separate arrays
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<yorickpeterse> heh
<andrewvos> like, zip would work I think but then I have to calculate what the biggest array is
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<ReinH> andrewvos: what would you want to happen in the case where one array is empty?
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<andrewvos> ReinH: [] + [1,2,3] -> [nil,1,nil,2,nil,3]
<andrewvos> ReinH: [] + [1,2,3] -> [nil,1,nil,2,nil,3].compact
<ReinH> [1,2,3].zip([4,5,6]).flatten #=> [1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 6]
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<ReinH> You can just .flatten.compact then?
<andrewvos> can I execute ruby in here?
<ReinH> Unsure.
<andrewvos> [2] pry(main)> [].zip([1,2,3])
<andrewvos> => []
<andrewvos> another question: what sort of deliver food should I order
<andrewvos> delivery*
<waxjar> why would you invoke #zip if one of your arrays is empty anyway?
<andrewvos> waxjar:
<andrewvos> [1].zip([1,2,3])
<ReinH> A method that interleaves elements from two arrays has surprising behavior if the arrays differ in length, no matter what
<andrewvos> => [[1, 1]]
<waxjar> sure, but that array isn't empty :p
<andrewvos> ReinH: ReinH
<andrewvos> [4] pry(main)> [1,2,3].zip([1])
<andrewvos> => [[1, 1], [2, nil], [3, nil]]
<drbrain> andrewvos:
<drbrain> >> 3 + 4
<eval-in__> drbrain => 7 (https://eval.in/230080)
<andrewvos> drbrain: oh cool thanks mate
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<ReinH> You can do something like
<ReinH> >> (xs, ys) { l = [xs.length,ys.length].min; xs.take(l).zip(ys.take(l)) }.([1],[1])
<eval-in__> ReinH => /tmp/execpad-0062a3cfc8d6/source-0062a3cfc8d6:2: syntax error, unexpected '{', expecting '=' ... (https://eval.in/230083)
<ReinH> You can also do this in a single traversal with a generator
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<ReinH> meh
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<ReinH> >> -> (xs, ys) { l = [xs.length,ys.length].min; xs.take(l).zip(ys.take(l)) }.([1],[1])
<eval-in__> ReinH => [[1, 1]] (https://eval.in/230084)
<ReinH> drbrain: what's the complexity of length?
<ReinH> length is O(1) right? So this should be fine.
<andrewvos> there's a maxium of 25 items
<andrewvos> and I doubt that will change
<waxjar> a,b = [xs,ys].sort_by(&:size); a.zip(b)
<drbrain> ReinH: O(1), ruby arrays know their size
<ReinH> waxjar: it's an option, but I don't like the behavior at all
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<ReinH> either interleaving nils or no longer interleaving are both bad
<ReinH> drbrain: I figured.
<andrewvos> waxjar: ooh
<waxjar> yeah, agreed
<waxjar> i think you should switch b and a, though, if you want to interleave with the longest array
<ReinH> Oh, I could use min_by(&:length) of course
<waxjar> goes on shortest array right now
<waxjar> even neater :)
<ReinH> I just think that the behavior for anything other than equal-length arrays is poorly defined
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<ReinH> Why do you want to do this in the first place, though? Maybe there's a better way.
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<ruby123> Hi guys, can anyone help with a pass by value / reference question?
<ReinH> ruby123: Sure.
<andrewvos> ReinH: Who me?
<ReinH> andrewvos: yeah.
<ruby123> I have an array, and a hash. I do this array << hash.
<ReinH> andrewvos: it's an interesting problem per se, but maybe not one you really need to solve :)
<andrewvos> ReinH: I have a home page feed that has to mix a list of products and product interactions
<ruby123> Then when I change the hash object, the array also changes!
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<andrewvos> So I have Product and Activity models
<andrewvos> And after spending hours trying to get ActiveRecord to play nice I thought "fuck it I'm doing two queries"
<ruby123> How do I pass the *values* from the hash object into the array
<ReinH> ruby123: You don't, but you can use dup to pass a new object.
<ruby123> So I cant build a hash object, the << it into an array so its *fixed* values? I have to do this.... array_var << { "value1" => "1", "value2" => "2"}
<ReinH> ruby123: Right, Ruby passes references to objects. If those objects are mutated anywhere, they are mutated everywhere.
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<ReinH> The only options are to freeze the objects (which is problematic) or duplicate them to simulate call-by-value
<yxhuvud> unless the object itself lives in the reference, like integers.
<banister> andrewvos what do u want th equery to do
<ReinH> yxhuvud: quite true
<banister> i have mad arel skillz
<banister> (not really)
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<andrewvos> banister: I have Activity and Product. I want a query that takes one Product then one Activity then one Product etc.
<andrewvos> And I also want to page it afterwards and I also want to join Activity.product
<ReinH> andrewvos: I wouldn't suggest making an array of interleaved Product and Activity objects. I would suggest attaching the activities to their respective products and then rendering the list of products
<banister> andrewvos sounds like you want includes()
<ReinH> Any products without activities would have activities=[] as a default, for instance
<banister> but you can't get back a relation with two kinds of objects
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<ReinH> andrewvos: I would also suggesting learning how to get what you want from the database in the first place ;)
<andrewvos> ReinH: yes but there's a lot more products than products with activities and my task is to make the page show 50% products + 50% activities
<yxhuvud> banister: well, you can if you use sti
<andrewvos> ReinH: I know how to get it from the database!
<andrewvos> SQL is easy
<ReinH> andrewvos: fair enough
<ReinH> So you want a stream of interleaved products and product activities
<andrewvos> SQL with active_record is far beyond me abilities
<yxhuvud> how would you achieve that in pure SQL?
<ruby123> Ok, I can array_var << "hash.keys", and array_var << "hash.values". Is there a way to extract the hash values and put them in the array e.g. array_var << puts "#{hash}"
<andrewvos> ReinH: Look at this pain I've dealt with today :) https://gist.github.com/AndrewVos/3151161c92e8b1cbb9ae
<ReinH> ruby123: why would you want to covert the hask into a string?
<ReinH> you can just array << hash.dup
<ReinH> *hash
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<andrewvos> yxhuvud: check that gist
<ruby123> ok, hash.dup sounds like the only way to stop the array changing when the var changes.
<ReinH> ruby123: Ruby is designed to have mutable objects.
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<ReinH> You aren't changing the var, you're changing the object that the var references
<ruby123> Ok, thanks!
<banister> andrewvos i like your work
<jhass> ruby123: remove the abstraction, what's your actual problem, show code, why do you have to modify the hash after adding it to the array, why is it a problem and so on
<banister> andrewvos is this perosnal or work-related btw?
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<andrewvos> banister: work related
<banister> andrewvos just do two queries homie
<banister> that's cray what u doing
<andrewvos> banister: yeah I am
<jhass> ruby123: needing .dup is a small hint that there might be a nicer solution, so we should have a look at it at least ;)
<andrewvos> the new code
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<ruby123> Ok, let me explain. I have an array called customers. I make a new_customer = Hash.new and start adding values to it e.g. new_customer['name'] = "John". Finally I push the Hash onto the array stack. But when I reuse that new_customer var, of course the array changes because I pushed the reference to the new_customer object.
<jhass> well, that's expected
<jhass> don't make that new_customer = {} conditional
<jhass> always doing before adding values to it
<jhass> *do it
<jhass> it's a new customer, so make a new hash
<jhass> .dup there will actually break once you make one of the keys conditional
<jhass> and one of the new customers will get the previous customers value if it doesn't set it
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<ruby123> Oh I see! So when I do new_customer = {} when I want to start a new one, the old object reference is still sat there in the Array queue but I'm now working on a new object, but using the old variable.
<jhass> yes
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<ruby123> So *everything* is an object, even values sat in an Array?
<jhass> everything in ruby is or can be represented as an object, yes
<waxjar> ruby only has references, really. so when you do h = { :foo => "bar" }; a = []; a << h, you're just pushing the object that h refers to onto the array. they're the same object.
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<jeremie> hi everybody o/
<jhass> hi
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<ruby123> ok, thanks for all your explanations. That saved me a headache!
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<jeremie> i'm a newbie on Ruby, usually working with php, and i'm currently trying to download a zip file, but i just can't make it work out, so if anyone see where is the problem with my code, that would be a really nice ^^ => https://gist.github.com/anonymous/273945f710d4f17373a5
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<ruby123> Just one last question. When I do this h = { foo: "bar"}; h << { another: "one"} is that hash an object too? Just with no variable assigned?
<jhass> jeremie: for starters I see no exception there. So what's wrong? On a side note, would you recommend people to use php3? ;)
<weaksauce> ruby123 yes
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<weaksauce> try it out {}.object_id
<jeremie> jhass: i get your point ^^
<jhass> ruby123: it won't work, Hash#<< is not defined ;)
<banister> andrewvos nice, btw in rails 4 you can do activities.map(&:id) => activities.ids :)
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<ruby123> Oh yeah, I get a new object ref each time I hit {}.object_id
<jeremie> jhass: and i apologize for not explaining the error i get, it's a timeout exception, sorry >__<
<banister> andrewvos oh no, not iwth yoru code, cos u're using a map, sry
<weaksauce> ruby123 everything in ruby is an object
<banister> (i mean you ha vean array, not an ar::relation)
<jhass> banister: andrewvos and for .map(&:something) use .pluck(:something)
<andrewvos> jhass: why?
<jhass> avoids allocating all that AR:B's for throwing them away
<andrewvos> oh ok
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<andrewvos> could just use to_a up aboe that I guess
<banister> andrewvos are you on a rails 4 codbase?
<banister> code*
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<jhass> jeremie: but a, let's say wget on that url works from the same machine?
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<jeremie> jhass: yes, it works
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<jhass> why do you have to download that file with ruby?
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<jeremie> jhass: cause i'm trying to modify a script related to redmine (ruby written) and i'd like to avoid calling a system to get my file, that's all
<jhass> I'd try open-uri to avoid all that net/http madness
<jhass> require 'open-uri'
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<jeremie> jhass: gonna look at this, thx ^^
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<jeremie> jhass: thanks, currently updating ruby, and when it's done, i'm gonna try what you send
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<ReinH> waxjar: call-by-reference is Close Enough most of the time. The main exception is that the references are immutable, so you can't (say) implement a variable swap by swapping the references like you could in C.
<ReinH> waxjar: Python folks refer to this evaluation strategy as "call by object", which I think is marginally better. Maybe.
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<andrewvos> banister: Yeah latest rails
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<jeremie> jhass: well, it's now working perfectly, with a really simplier code ^^
<jeremie> jhass: thank you very much :D
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<jhass> you're welcome
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<RickHull> can anyone help troubleshooting a problem with minitest on travis that does not happen locally? specifically a NoMethodError on Minitest 5.4.3 https://travis-ci.org/rickhull/conway_deathmatch/jobs/42847057
<RickHull> ... test/bench_board_state.rb:9:in `block in <top (required)>': undefined method `bench_range' for #<Class:0x000000020d6298> (NoMethodError)
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<jhass> RickHull: for starters ensure environment matches
<jhass> check in your Gemfile.lock
<jhass> add bundler_args: "--deployment" to your .travis.yml
<jhass> use bundle exec rake locally to run your tests
<RickHull> hm, yeah
<RickHull> i'm actually preferring not to use bundler, only required by travis
<RickHull> but that must be part of the issue
<RickHull> e.g. I don't have bundler installed locally
<jhass> you're just experiencing why bundler exists
<jhass> it prevents exactly this kind of environment mismatch
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<RickHull> yeah...
<RickHull> giving it a whirl locally
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<RickHull> ok, i see my minitest is 4.7.5 locally, 5.4.3 on travis
<RickHull> i installed my local gems with --user-install; with `bundle install` it wants sudo for system install or vendored
<RickHull> can i do the equivalent of --user-install instead? or vendor them? or is system install fine for this purpose?
<jhass> I prefer setting $GEM_HOME to the location --user-install uses
<jhass> bundler unfortunately lacks the feature to respect --user-install
<RickHull> so... how are milestones for merging bundler features into rubygems? ;)
<jhass> granted that is a fairly new feature of rubygems
<jhass> we already got gem install -g ;)
<jhass> but they'll never merge completely, just some features will be shifted from bundler into rubygems
<jhass> and that mostly for the library side, not so much the CLI side afaik
<RickHull> i just hate the extra layer of management shit that comes with bundler. i get that there is some value there, and makes up for missing rubygems features
<RickHull> but i'd rather have just the one layer, preferring if rubygems can handle environment replication and isolation
<jhass> https://github.com/bundler/bundler/issues/2565 looks like they're not too open about respecting user install :/
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<RickHull> would setting $GEM_HOME approximate that?
<RickHull> if i do `sudo bundle install` locally, will that not replicate with `bundle install` on travis?
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<jhass> travis uses RVM, so it doesn't need root to write to the ruby installation
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<jhass> and actually they'll start to do --path vendor if you don't do a --path
<jhass> finally your local bundler will ask your sudo password, there's no need to sudo bundle install
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<RickHull> ah, right
<jhass> which is actually important once you use something like the git source feature of it
<RickHull> seems a bit shady to trust my password to bundler rather than sudo
<RickHull> but sure :)
<jhass> it just forwards the sudo prompt really
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<RickHull> welp, confirmed the issue locally. i wonder if i was reading the 4.x docs and not 5.x
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<RickHull> undefined method `bench_range' for #<Class:0x000000010e76e8> (NoMethodError) # this shouldn't happen given my understanding of 5.x docs
<RickHull> maybe i'm invoking it in the wrong scope
<jhass> zenspider: ^ wanna help out there? :)
<RickHull> i pinged him in #minitest earlier ;)
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<RickHull> perhaps it's because here https://github.com/rickhull/conway_deathmatch/blob/perf/test/bench_board_state.rb I am doing `describe "stuff" do` and not `describe Klass do`
<RickHull> eh, nope, describe "stuff" seems fully supported
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<RickHull> can anyone confirm if I'm doing anything wrong with bench_range in the source code I just linked?
<RickHull> it behaves as expected under Minitest 4.x
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<RickHull> here's a minimal test case: https://gist.github.com/rickhull/cb47779ef9e48a7d5189
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<RickHull> :(
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<RickHull> can anyone confirm if my minimal test case goes against the docs here: http://docs.seattlerb.org/minitest/Minitest/BenchSpec.html#method-c-bench_range what am i missing?
<RickHull> if it's a minitest bug, maybe a change in how ruby 2+ handles metaclasses or something?
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<wallerdev> maybe you hvae an old version
<wallerdev> or maybe it goes outside of the describe
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<RickHull> i feel like it needs to be within some scope (describe being the outermost) -- in order to make different ranges for different benchmarks
<RickHull> outside of describe: test.rb:5:in `<main>': undefined method `bench_range' for main:Object (NoMethodError)
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<wallerdev> RickHull: maybe this helps http://pastebin.com/j05UYM9P
<RickHull> maybe it needs to be inside a bench_* block
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<RickHull> wallerdev: the thing is, the test case works under 4.x
<wallerdev> complain to zenspider
<wallerdev> lol
<RickHull> yeah... i'm waiting for him to get back to me
<RickHull> the docs don't indicate how this stuff should be used. must I subclass test::unit and def self.bench_range?
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<RickHull> i'm leaning towards a bug/regression
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<RickHull> wallerdev: also, that's from 2010 -- maybe doesn't work on 5.x either -- I don't see any programmatic link from the spec stuff to the subclass stuff above
<RickHull> banisterfiend: HALP
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<banisterfiend> RickHull sup
<RickHull> how is NL?
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<banisterfiend> RickHull Gr8, m8. I rel8, str8 appreci8, and congratul8. I r8 this b8 an 8/8. Plz no h8, I'm str8 ir8. Cr8 more, can't w8. We should convers8, I won't ber8, my number is 8888888, ask for N8. No calls l8 or out of st8. If on a d8, ask K8 to loc8. Even with a full pl8, I always have time to communic8 so don't hesit8.
<banisterfiend> RickHull it's good :)
<RickHull> wallerdev: (so i don't think def self.bench_range could help)
<banisterfiend> RickHull dating a crazy girl though, what's up wit u?
<wallerdev> lol
<RickHull> taking it easy over the holiday season on US east coast. job hunt on US west coast
<wallerdev> bay area?
<banisterfiend> RickHull still doing dat rails?
<RickHull> ha, never really did
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<RickHull> wallerdev: most likely
<wallerdev> cool we can hang out
<wallerdev> <3
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<wallerdev> what companies are yhou looking at
<RickHull> o/ \o
<RickHull> anything small and ruby- or elixir-friendly; dev/test infrastructure; no particular companies in mind
<wallerdev> cool
<wallerdev> javascript is the future though
* RickHull barf
<wallerdev> :o
<wallerdev> i do JS full time haha
<whitequark> burrrrrn
<RickHull> js is a blight on the world
<RickHull> cs is ok
<wallerdev> cs is awful
<ericwood> JS is a thing and there will be other things
<ericwood> reminds me of the Java craze in the 90s
<ericwood> granted the JVM did catch on :)
<whitequark> except we didn't build all our infra on top of java
<RickHull> i hate js the language, and i especially hate the way some devs use it without graceful degradation
<ericwood> tons of people did, though
<RickHull> everything looks like a js nail
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<wallerdev> graceful degradation is dead
<wallerdev> lol
<RickHull> no, my phone's battery is dead
<RickHull> because 14 million useless js scripts are running on it
<whitequark> it needs to be signed into law that webdevs should use the shit they create without js enabled
<wallerdev> nothing works on the website i work on without js
<wallerdev> lol
* RickHull barf
<ericwood> that makes sense for a lot of pages but single page apps that's a silly requirement
<whitequark> single page apps should die
<wallerdev> i work on a mobile single page app website though
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<ericwood> there's a time and place for single page apps and I think our definitions are a tad bit different
<ericwood> I'm talking about things like trello, etc.
<ericwood> where it's literally one page
<wallerdev> yeah our site is one page, everything loads in dynamically
<RickHull> it's fine if you have webapps that are implemented in js. but please, CMS is not a "webapp" i really would like to read your CONTENT
<wallerdev> one page load, rest is through JS
<ericwood> RickHull: amen
<RickHull> like if it's a game, or a demo, something you might have been tempted to implement in a java applet 15 years ago
<RickHull> fine, use that js hammer
<RickHull> but not for online documents
<wallerdev> yeah
<RickHull> if you're a newspaper, or you can be generally categorized as producing content in the form of readable text
<RickHull> you're doing it wrong (in js)
<wallerdev> +1 on that
<wallerdev> i think single page apps are fine for sites where you have to be logged in to do anything
<ericwood> guys guys guys this isn't #javascript
<wallerdev> it will be soon enough
<wallerdev> ;)
<RickHull> ECMAscript you insensitive clod
<ericwood> who started this
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<wallerdev> all im saying is js is the future
<RickHull> of shite
<wallerdev> ruby is going back to its 2005 level of interest
<RickHull> doesn't dart or some other 4-letter word run in the browser?
<womble> Someone needs to write jsruby
<whitequark> i wrote it
<ericwood> the trick is to not give a shit about what's popular
<ericwood> whenever someone tells me "ruby isn't relevant anymore" I get annoyed
<wallerdev> popular stuff is fun though, i like shiny new things haha
<ericwood> sure
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<ericwood> but don't judge a lgnague based on shininess
<ericwood> unless it's solving warts from another one
<ericwood> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<wallerdev> oh i still love ruby as a language
<womble> ericwood: "not give a shit about what's popular" -- you sound like a smug LISP weenie. <grin>
<wallerdev> im just saying its not as popular anymore
<ericwood> womble: I hate those guys :)
<drbrain> someone put ruby in Mozilla back before Firefox was a thing
<wallerdev> i still write any one off scripts in ruby
<ericwood> wallerdev: no, it's just mature enough that people stop posting shit they made in it on hacker news
<womble> ericwood: You and I can be smug ruby weenies instead.
<ericwood> deal
<whitequark> COBOL is still fairly popular
<whitequark> especially compared to its visibility (which is essentially zero)
<RickHull> COBOL ON CRUTCHES
<whitequark> you deride it, but COBOL is a better thing to implement your software stack on than, say, C
<whitequark> last time you heard of a CVE in COBOL? ;p
<whitequark> (in something written in COBOL)
<RickHull> show me a 10 line webserver in COBOL
<RickHull> or a socket listener
<womble> COBOL is the best demonstration of security by obscurity
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