<pipework>
ericwood: I'd be awesome at one language and work on understanding the underlying theory and stuff. At least, that's what makes me happy, then learning more languages becomes easier to do and easier to select.
<pipework>
I know a good large number of languages myself, but I love theory and philosophical stuff. Lua is my favorite language.
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<jdecuirm>
Hey guys, can anyone give me an advice about any ruby book to learn? i guess i need more background before i start with The Well Grounded Rubyist
<jdecuirm>
so, any good book to read would be great
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<seamon>
anyone know what’s going on with rubygems.org, can’t seem to log in?
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<seamon>
anyone know what’s going on with rubygems.org, can’t seem to log in?
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<wprice>
jdecuirm: have you done any programming before?
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<wprice>
jdecuirm: I hadn’t done any ruby, but objective-c primarily and I found the well grounded book pretty approachable
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<pipework>
I mostly just brogram and get paid for it.
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<ccbn>
I'm trying to do something that seems rather trivial, but I can't find out how. Basically I have to run a bunch of commands like 'dig @dns.server.com example.com'. I don't want to deal with bash or parsing the dig output, but I can't find any ruby gems that allow one to specify which DNS server to use when resolving.
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<womble>
ccbn: resolv does
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<ccbn>
womble: Thanks, apparently I'm incapable of reading basic documentation. I knew it couldn't be that exotic.
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<yorickpeterse>
morning
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<ljarvis>
hi
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<maloik>
hullo
<maloik>
ugh, spent some more time trying to verify each certificate of a chain against the next
<maloik>
turns out one of them must have been wrong
<maloik>
and here I am thinking I simply don't know enough about how this works
<maloik>
(well I don't, but at least I seem to have gotten this right)
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<workmad3>
maloik: hehe
<workmad3>
maloik: my normal chain is - "User must have done something wrong" -> "I must have done something wrong" -> "The library/framework/language is doing something wrong" -> "The universe is wrong"
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<ljarvis>
I usually start with the last one
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<yorickpeterse>
man, Sequel not abusing method_missing is such a refreshing change
<yorickpeterse>
now I can actually use Pry properly on my models
<yorickpeterse>
instead of either having 1) a *massive* list of methods 2) not having my methods at all since they're not explicitly defined
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<yorickpeterse>
weeee, one more project on Sequel vs AR
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* yorickpeterse
is most likely going crazy
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<apeiros_>
yorickpeterse: you're using sequel's orm I assume? i.e. not just as a dbi?
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<yorickpeterse>
Yeah, although the ORM part so far is used in quite a basic way
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<yorickpeterse>
mainly just so I have custom classes returned instead of Hashes
<apeiros_>
mhm
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<apeiros_>
in my tests, hashes were slower than structs and used more space (which was expected)
<apeiros_>
what does sequel orm use inside? structs? hashes? dynamically built classes with proper ivars & accessors?
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<yorickpeterse>
The raw values are stored as a Hash inside @values inside every model instance
<yorickpeterse>
and thus SomeModel#foo is basically @values[:foo]
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<apeiros_>
hmmm, then I guess mine is faster than sequel :)
<apeiros_>
and probably requiring quite a bit less memory
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<yorickpeterse>
Sequel doesn't exactly need a lot of memory though
<yorickpeterse>
Certainly not more than AR
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<apeiros_>
I'm talking about per-record cost
<apeiros_>
the comparison is not yet fair as mine still lacks a lot of features. but when I tested, I supported dirty-state (i.e. all state was stored twice, once as in the db and once as modified in the instance) and it still took only 1/4th of AR per record
<apeiros_>
I expect to maintain at least 1/2
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<apeiros_>
I will never support as rich a featureset as AR, though.
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<nofxx_>
talking about ORMs did you guys played with ROM ?
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<yorickpeterse>
I might look into it when it's actually actively developed and stable
<yorickpeterse>
Last I heard they rebooted it after it being dead for a while
<ljarvis>
+1 to public_send, I scold enough people for using send
<maloik>
I basically went "oh shit I hope no one saw me type that"
<maloik>
then corrected myself
* ljarvis
raises finger from /kb button
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<maloik>
:-)
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<DefV>
is public_send better in any other way than "being sure we're not calling private methods"?
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<apeiros_>
DefV: no
<apeiros_>
DefV: but that's by far a big enough reason to use it over send.
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<apeiros_>
i.e. use send *only* if you really really want to bypass visbility.
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<crankharder>
I was just about to try subclassing Struct such that an initializer would be defined that required all the args that were passed to Struct.new, but it seems I can't find the variable names from the new class
<crankharder>
for example, if I do 'Foo = Struct.new(:a, :b, :c)' -- there are no instance variables on Foo to build an initializer with. do they exist somewhere I can access them?
<ljarvis>
yes.. .a, .b, .c
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<crankharder>
uh yea. you're not following. yes, the instance methods a, b, c are defined on an instance of Foo.
<ljarvis>
oh, right there aren't ivars set
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<yorickpeterse>
yay 1 app on Pg (at least test suite wise)
<ljarvis>
crankharder: but i still dont understand what you mean about the initializer, just use self.a etc?
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<crankharder>
I want to subclass Struct itself into say NewStruct that would have a custom initializer defined.
<ljarvis>
ok
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<ljarvis>
:/
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<ljarvis>
crankharder: I don't see the problem, if you're still having one that is
<ljarvis>
why? Struct.new returns a new subclass, which is what your NewStruct is doing
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<crankharder>
yea Struct.new doens't execute an initializer. it just returns a subclass. that's weird.
<crankharder>
it effectively means I can't subclass Struct itself to change its behavior
<hal_9000_>
Struct is a little less weird than it used to be
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<Kero>
hi hal_9000_ !
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<hal_9000_>
Kero: Hi! Long time no see
<Kero>
indeed, how are you?
<hal_9000_>
i am well, trying to sort of get back into things
<hal_9000_>
what are you doing lately?
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<[spoiler]>
how is Struct weird? I don't find it weird at all; it behaves as one expects it to
<Kero>
freelancing agile coach
<Kero>
currently doing a project in Saudi Arabia
<hal_9000_>
[spoiler]: does it invoke Struct#initializer?
<hal_9000_>
Kero: wow, cool
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<Kero>
hal_9000_: yes, having a great time working together with two other coaches and a 400-people department.
<Kero>
my first coaching project, so I'm learning a *lot*
<hal_9000_>
excellent. ask them if they need someone to coach ruby ;)
<Kero>
hehe, they got some ancient hardware here
<hal_9000_>
that’s ok, i’m ancient too
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<Kero>
we're thinking cucumber, but without ruby...
<Kero>
ancient, you? nah
<hal_9000_>
i remember when dirt was invented
<Kero>
the ancient hardware runs java, so jruby is technically possible
<hal_9000_>
what kind of hardware anyway?
<Kero>
aal kinds of stuff. the particular hw we;ve seen the last few days is AS/400
<hal_9000_>
oh, god
<hal_9000_>
have you ever seen RPG?
<Kero>
since two days, ys
<Kero>
yes
* Kero
cringes involuntarily
<hal_9000_>
i used that in my first job - out of date even then
<hal_9000_>
the only high-level language i have seen worse than cobol
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<Kero>
at first glance, it seems to have all the disadvantages of fortran
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<Kero>
but none of fortran's advantages
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<hal_9000_>
its only advantage is that it’s fast to write a (very) simple report-type program
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<hal_9000_>
but the complexity ramps up very quickly
<Kero>
I suppose so, given its name
<hal_9000_>
it “makes a few things easy, makes most easy things difficult, makes some easy things impossible”
<Kero>
and the particular subgroup is using a lot of RPG, why, I'm all for starting my weekend with a positive thought
<Kero>
weekend is Fri+Sat here
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<hal_9000_>
well, i used rpg for four years - it sharpened my skills in many ways - like running with ankle weights
<Kero>
lol
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<Kero>
so, yeah, we have ideas for short-term and some vague notion of replacing tools& hardware years from now when we are no longer coaching
<hal_9000_>
to be honest, i used a system/36 in my job - the as/400 was considered new and trendy in ibm circles back in 1987 :)
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<Kero>
yes, already got the decades figured out
<Kero>
even though it is hard to find concrete information about AS/400
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<[spoiler]>
hal_9000_, not when calling Struct::new because ::new isa singleton method
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<hal_9000_>
but almost any class invokes #initialize under the covers
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<[spoiler]>
Yes, but Struct's documentation is pretty clear on the topic, though. If you want to modify the returned class, you can do Blah Struct.new(...) do; <class stuff> end;
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<[spoiler]>
sorry, Blah =
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<Kero>
ah, ah, but which method would call the block you pass to Struct.new ?
<hal_9000_>
ok. that is much better than it was 10 years ago
<[spoiler]>
Kero, it would be ::new that calls it
<Kero>
it looks like it, indeed.
<[spoiler]>
and then evaluates the block in the context of the new class (using rb_mod_module_eval)
<hal_9000_>
i think Struct now lets you access instance variables, right?
<ljarvis>
there are no instance variables
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<hal_9000_>
no?
<[spoiler]>
Nah, Struct doesn't use instance variables internally
<hal_9000_>
well, i like it a little less then :)
<hal_9000_>
there’s little reason it shouldn’t generate a “real class” that acted like a typical class
<[spoiler]>
hal_9000_, instance vals would be bloat in therms of memory/performance, though
<ljarvis>
it does generate a real class
<hal_9000_>
can you subclass that class?
<ljarvis>
that acted like a typical class, it doesn't say anything about signing a contract for using ivars
<ljarvis>
sure
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<hal_9000_>
i haven’t used Struct “heavily” in receent years — i know it has improved, but i don’t know what its current state is
* Kero
thinks hal_9000_ means that you would normally use attr_reader, and Struct subclass does not do that. That is surprising when you are used to Struct *doing* that
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<[spoiler]>
Why do you think it should use ivars, though? hal_9000_
<hal_9000_>
because i assume that attributes will normally be implemented as instance vars — when I use attr_* it doesn’t stick things in some magical hidden hash
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<ljarvis>
the thing is, the semantics of Struct differ from a "normal" class
<ljarvis>
it even adds .each/.each_pair methods
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<hal_9000_>
it could add functionality without disrupting existing, though
<ljarvis>
and length/[]/[]=/select etc, it's really not meant to be "normal", these are adding to the reasons you wouldn't store this data as ivars explicitly
<Kero>
hal_9000_: good talking to you, g2g
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<ljarvis>
actually the docs are quite good with it; "A Struct is a convenient way to bundle a number of attributes together"
<hal_9000_>
Kero: bye!
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<[spoiler]>
cheers Kero
<hal_9000_>
well, if Struct is everything you want, that is great - for me, that wasn’t always true
<ljarvis>
oh i think struct is pretty meh.. but useful at times