apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.2.0; 2.1.5; 2.0.0-p598; 1.9.3-p551: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste code on http://gist.github.com
<whitequark> you could say that directories are "namespaces", and thus require_relative searches the "current" namespace instead of "global"
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<yxhuvud> how I dislike projects that keep to one file.
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<apeiros_> whitequark: and why would you also concern yourself with how a library is distributed? you pile up concerns that really do not matter to what your library does.
<centrx> ActiveSupport::Concerns?
<centrx> jk HO HO HO!
<whitequark> apeiros_: because I don't write abstract libraries in vacuum.
<apeiros_> whitequark: I didn't say you do. but that's a false dichotomy.
<whitequark> can you explain why you eschew one filesystem-based loading mechanism in favor of another filesystem-based loading mechanism, again?
<whitequark> the <id> thing is nonsense. that's not how any ruby works.
<apeiros_> "lets create unflexible, strongly coupled system because we will never want to change how anything works". sorry, this is silly and I'm not up to discuss it.
<apeiros_> no, not everything we do is because "solve problem X!"
<apeiros_> we also do things because they enable things we do specifically *not* consider
<apeiros_> and the way to that is by not introducing coupling where it is not necessary.
<whitequark> let's make a weakly coupled system so as to enable unintended naming clashes! ok, gotcha.
<apeiros_> false dichotomy again.
<whitequark> you still haven't said what would be achieved by not having this coupling, except some vague "unflexibility"
<apeiros_> 01:08 apeiros_: no, not everything we do is because "solve problem X!"
<apeiros_> 01:08 apeiros_: we also do things because they enable things we do specifically *not* consider
<apeiros_> 00:31 apeiros_: … but granted, ruby makes so little of its code loading system, that it probably won't even matter any time soon.
<whitequark> so, nothing
<apeiros_> and as said before, past midnight here. I won't go beyond that.
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<Technodrome> apeiros_: so rvm is still the most popular ?
<apeiros_> Technodrome: no idea
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<apeiros_> it is certainly still popular.
<Technodrome> i noticed there is rbenv
<Technodrome> and chriby
<Technodrome> chruby
<Technodrome> all kinds of stuff
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<duderonomy> I think you can skip rvm and simply use rbenv.
<duderonomy> gemsets and bundler make rvm seem redundant to me.
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<maloik> hmm, I'm trying out a colleague's 27" display and I get the feeling there's a problem with my settings, as if the refresh rate isn't high enough (but it's locked at 60hz)
<maloik> using OSX and a ~2 y/o macbook pro
<maloik> anyone know how to google for this? :/
<maloik> it's more obvious on dark text on a white bg
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<nofxx_> Why it's not looking in the inherited methods? http://codepad.org/TNH91nrc
<nofxx_> the inherit class methods*
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<Mon_Ouie> Because the inherited method is called as soon as the subclass is created
<Mon_Ouie> Which is, before the method Rock.key and Punk.key are defined
<apeiros_> nofxx_: take a close look at where the error happens
<apeiros_> it's not in `p Rock == Punk`
<nofxx_> Mon_Ouie, apeiros_ ah, crystal clear now. thank you
<godd2> why doesn't if fail right after Rock is defined?
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<apeiros_> why would it?
<Mon_Ouie> godd2: the call to == happens because of the call to Enumerable#include?
<nofxx_> godd2, the array is empty
<Mon_Ouie> Since at first the array is empty there are no elements to compare it against
<nofxx_> nothing to == against
<godd2> ah of course
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<nofxx_> Well, was trying to do some fancy checking....I could do something like find_dups afterwards but is there someway that could work?
<nofxx_> like a way to write your plugins but making sure they use a certain namespace inside the gem
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<nofxx_> a different*
<nofxx_> actual code is: fail "Already defined #{base}" if Foo.plugins.include?(base)
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<Mon_Ouie> I don't think that would work, because the inherited method is only going to be called the first time anyway
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<godd2> nofxx_ before I offer any advice, I have to know: will this code be going into production? or is this a project for better understanding metaprogramming?
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<nofxx_> godd2, going to use on production... going to be an open source gem, it's a crawler which looks for specific information
<godd2> then my advice is to not use metaprogramming to do whatever it is you're trying to do.
<godd2> and for whatever solution you come up with to favor composition over inheritance
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<godd2> After all, I'd say that rock and punk are each a MusicGenre or something
<godd2> or Music::Genre
<godd2> however, against my better judgement, one solution to your current problem is to make @music = Set.new
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<godd2> that will enforce uniqueness of elements of @music. of course, you'll have to require 'set'
<godd2> then you can delete the trailing unless Worker.music.include?(base)
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<nofxx_> godd2, thanks for the advice... hehe my german sheppard decided it's play time here... oh boy, choose another breed if you enjoy peace
<soahccc> Don't know what the problem is but keep in mind that for a lot of iterations it is way faster to just []#<< and then []#uniq! instead of using Set or checking []#include? before each []#<<
<nofxx_> soahccc, yeah... (ary - ary.uniq!).each { |bad| puts fail bad.. }
<nofxx_> soahccc, in this case speed aint issue, no more than 10, 20 plugins
<nofxx_> but good point
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<daften> hi, i'm having a strange problem on a new mac i've got
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<bradland> daften: new mac for xmas?
<daften> when i perform any ruby related command in a folder, i get a grep: ..." No such file or directory for every space in the pathname
<daften> new mac for my new freelance business, needed something powerful :)
<daften> merry christmas btw, :)
<bradland> cool, merry xmas
<daften> grep: /Users/daften/Workspaces/Freelance/iMinds/iMinds: No such file or directory
<daften> grep: Academy/chef-repo/cookbooks/jenkins_drupal/Gemfile: No such file or directory
<daften> grep: /Users/daften/Workspaces/Freelance/iMinds/iMinds: No such file or directory
<daften> grep: Academy/chef-repo/cookbooks/jenkins_drupal/Gemfile: No such file or directory
<daften> grep: /Users/daften/Workspaces/Freelance/iMinds/iMinds: No such file or directory
<daften> grep: Academy/chef-repo/cookbooks/jenkins_drupal/Gemfile: No such file or directory
<bradland> yikes
<daften> e.g. for ruby --version i get this
<bradland> plz use a pastie svc rather than paste to the channel
<daften> ok, will do
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<bradland> at a command prompt, type alias
<daften> this is from alias: http://pastie.org/9799931
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<bradland> ok, no ruby aliases
<bradland> so that’s good
<bradland> what method did you use to install ruby?
<daften> rbenv, and that's installed through homebrew
<bradland> k, try this at a prompt `which ruby`
<bradland> you can copy/paste that output here because it’s less than 3 lines
<daften> my complete install is in scripts now, i'll past the github link in a minute
<bradland> k
<daften> /Users/daften/.rbenv/shims/ruby
<daften> these are my scripts, still work in progress :) https://github.com/daften/mac-provisioning
<bradland> inspect the contents of that shim file for any calls to grep
<havenwood> a shim, get it!
* havenwood searches for his pitchfork...
<bradland> based on the output you pastied, i’d say grep is being fed paths with spaces, which haven’t been wrapped in quotes
<daften> that's what i thought, but no idea where that could happen,
<daften> especially since the setup is basically the same on my old mac
<bradland> so, for example, if you were to execute `grep needle /Some/Long/Path That/Has Spaces`
<daften> no greps in the ruby shim
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<bradland> grep would break that path up based on the spaces
<bradland> so, you’ve got to hunt down that grep call
<bradland> can you pastie the contents of the shim?
<bradland> it’s probably calling other scripts
<daften> here ya go: http://pastie.org/9799936
<daften> i've started digging deeper, but not that easy, i'm not a ruby programmer
<daften> i'm now on the libexec/rbenv one
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<bradland> no worries. fyi, this is more than likely an rbenv issue, not really a ruby issue.
<bradland> i don’t use rbenv personally, but i’m happy to go down this rabbit hole.
<daften> thanks very much for that :)
<havenwood> daften: Or chruby and sidestep the rbenv issues: https://github.com/postmodern/chruby
<bradland> is there an rbenv channel? i know rvm has one
<havenwood> bradland: there's an #rvm or #chruby channel but no rbenv
<bradland> bummer
<daften> the strange is again, rbenv is the exact same version on my 2 machines
<havenwood> bradland: wish they'd do like rbfu and ruby-versions and self-deprecate in favor of chruby...
<bradland> daften, in order ot isolate the issue, you could try invoking the ruby binary directly
<bradland> daften: rbenv is rarely *exactly* the same in two locations ;)
<bradland> minimum snark intended on that one
<bradland> i would definitely try invoking the ruby binary directly though
<daften> i don't know chruby, but in web dev rvm and rbenv seem to be the standards afaik
<bradland> just use the full path to it
<daften> ok, give me a sec :)
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<daften> directly indeed gives me no problems with the grep
<daften> the main difference is the install method, directly on my old machine, with homebrew on the new one
<havenwood> daften: Quite a few authors and maintainers are moving from rbenv to chruby, though rvm is alive and well.
<bradland> so there’s your culprit
<bradland> it’s rbenv that is generating that output
<havenwood> daften: I guess the Basecamp folk push rbenv.
<daften> @havenwood: what's the main advantage with chruby? it seems like less at very first sight, no executable shims
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<bradland> somewhere in the depths of rbenv, you have an un-quoted path being passed go grep
<bradland> chruby uses a much simpler approach to managing rubies
<havenwood> daften: Instead of maintaining a shim garden it correctly sets the Ruby environment variables.
<bradland> if you’re starting with a new machine, i’d definitely go that route
<havenwood> daften: RVM can actually use chruby as its switcher. MRVM is built in for chruby and a --chruby flag is coming.
<havenwood> daften: Though typically RVM is used as both installer and switcher.
<havenwood> daften: chruby users typically either use ruby packages, build their own or use ruby-install, you're choice
<havenwood> s/you're/your
<daften> ruby-build is also usable it seems
<daften> i'll take a look at it, thanks for the tip, although rbenv is bloated, it does have it's advantages, and with the plugins like rbenv-rehash, and so on, it's very usable IMO
<havenwood> daften: yeah, though i'd advise against ruby-build since it doesn't use your package manager for dependencies. so you can update your openssl package, rebuild ruby through ruby-build and it'll still use whatever old openssl ruby-build shipped with.
<havenwood> daften: at least if you know it's doing that ^ you can deal with it, but most folk don't seem to know.
<daften> ah, ok, good to know too
<daften> i didn't know that ;)
<daften> sometimes, in IT, we get waaay too many options :D
<bradland> rehash is really only necessary because of rbenv’s use of shims, btw.
<bradland> agree 100% on the options. total pain in the ass.
<bradland> i try to switch as little as possible.
<bradland> i never switched from RVM over all the “overwriting cd is bad, mkay” fluff
<havenwood> daften: ruby-install uses your system package manager to install dependencies, no shims, can install Rubies that don't have formulas if you just provide the md5 or shasum, etc.
<bradland> but chruby is so good, i can’t overlook it
<daften> i'll keep it into account, atm i'm already working with rbenv, but i'll try out chruby on a vm quicky or something
<tbuehlmann> I also use ruby-install and chruby and can just agree
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<bradland> errr, uh. has YAML.dump always serialized strings that look like time values as actual YAML Time objects, or is this new behavior?
<bradland> oh boy
<bradland> so, under 1.9.3, i get strings in my YAML, but under 2.1 I get actual Time objects
<bradland> this is not cool
<bradland> if i serialize an object, what i get back is not the same thing
<daften> i found the issue, it's due to rbenv-bundler-ruby-version, there was the offending grep
<daften> thanks very much for the help @bradland and @tbuehlmann, i'll take a look at chruby now :)
<bradland> you bet
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<daften> a question: how are executable gems handled with chruby?
<daften> ok, nevermind, that's with the env variables i guess :)
<bradland> yep, with the correct PATH, GEM_HOME, GEM_PATH, etc, everything “just works"
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<daften> and chruby just fixes those env variables, and ruby-install handles installation, allright, now trying to figure out what i'd miss from rbenv :)
<whitequark> personally I don't even use ruby-install, on non-OSX ./configure --prefix=/opt/rubies/ruby-* && make && sudo make install is sufficient...
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<daften> yeah, but osx, install and prerequisites .. :)
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<Technodrome> Good day
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<daften> with chruby, as far as i can see, there is no alternative to rbenv-bundler, which eliminates the need for bundle exec, is there?
<havenwood> daften: The bundler team recommends an explicit `bundle exec` but there's rubygems-bundler if you like: https://github.com/mpapis/rubygems-bundler
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<whitequark> rubygems-bundler is nice.
<bradland> what about RUBYGEMS_GEMDEPS?
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<daften> the thing is, i mainly, if not always, work in projects with a gemfile, so the bundle exec is very annoying for me
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<daften> what does RUBYGEMS_GEMDEPS do?
<daften> is that not only from 2.2.0 onwards?
<havenwood> daften: It's a RubyGems feature. You can get it with earlier Rubies by updating your RubyGems: gem update --system
<bradland> havenwood: do you have a canonical source for documentation on RUBYGEMS_GEMDEPS? or is this one of those things we have to source-dive to understand?
<daften> but it means you need a per-path env variables to be able to set that env variable, so it seems like shifting the problem
<bradland> perfect
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<daften> thanks :)
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<havenwood> I'm not sure where `export RUBYGEMS_GEMDEPS=-` is documented.
<daften> still strange, to have to set a env variable, in a file, that points exactly to that file :D
<daften> even with the autodetect :)
<daften> do you guys know why RUBYGEMS_GEMDEPS=- isn't simply the default?
<bradland> “auto discovery” often leads to “auto confusion” when you’re not expecting it
<bradland> in general, convenience features default to off for that reason
<havenwood> daften: Say if you're using Ruby for general scripting, nothing to do with an app. If there's a Gemfile anywhere in an intermediate you'd possibly get irrelevant warning and stuff loaded, etc.
<daften> ah, ok, true
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<daften> i use ruby for provisioning (chef), but just getting started, and for web projects (compass and so on), so very different mindset to "real" ruby programming
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<bradland> personally, i still use rvm on my primary development machine because i have no objections to their implementation, and they seem to have a very strong focus on making sure that rvm stable “just works”
<bradland> i also have some very old projects where gemsets are nice
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<daften> atm i think i'll stick to rbenv, it was one plugin that was faulty, the rest is fine and it works for me atm, but i know basically how i can switch to chruby fairly easily
<daften> so when i'm bored or rbenv is really annoying ...
<daften> it's been a fruitful learning evening for me, thx @bradland and @havenwood again, when in belgium, come see me for free beer or waffles :p
<bradland> will do!
<havenwood> daften: :)
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<hakunin> we should propose a new ruby feature, custom short-circuiting operators. great idea or the greatest idea?
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