<pipecloud>
yuko7: Your local variable or method name is misleading if you think Array#values is a thing.
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<yuko7>
pipecloud: array is actually a hash
<pipecloud>
yuko7: So call it string because that's more fun!
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<Lewix>
yuko7: Let me guess, it works when you remove line 2 and 6 , right?
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<yuko7>
Lewix: yes! but i want class methods
<Lewix>
yuko7: use define_singleton_method instead
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<pipecloud>
Lewix: Why not just define a method within the eigen class?
<pipecloud>
eigenclass*
<pipecloud>
It seems like a syntactic sugar that hides the fact that you're putting a method on a class object somewhere.
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<Lewix>
pipecloud: it is defined within the eigenclass
<pipecloud>
Lewix: Yeah, I know how it's implemented.
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<pipecloud>
It just seems to hide what it does. A sugar, nothing more.
<Lewix>
pipecloud: I was answering your question - 22:34 pipecloud: Lewix: Why not just define a method within the eigen class?
<Lewix>
pipecloud: so what's the problem?
<pipecloud>
Lewix: What I meant was "Why not just actually write the code that does that?"
<pipecloud>
I just don't see the value in the sugar, I suppose.
<Lewix>
pipecloud: less headaches? conciseness ?
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<Lewix>
pipecloud: feel free to suggest what you have in mind then
<pipecloud>
def self.method_name; end, or class << self; def method_name; end; end
<pipecloud>
I usually use class << self when I'm doing more than method definitions though.
<yuko7>
Lewix: thanks! its working now
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<yuko7>
pipecloud: i tried its not working in a block
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<pipecloud>
yuko7: I can't help "I tried".
<yuko7>
pipecloud: im just saying your method does not work in a block
<pipecloud>
yuko7: I'm just saying that your code is broken and I can't help without seeing it. :)
<pipecloud>
You're most likely doing it wrong.
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<Lewix>
pipecloud: class<< self in a block is not the class you expect
<pipecloud>
Lewix: Oh his gist? No, I know it isn't.
<Lewix>
pipecloud: so what's your whole point, you're confusing - just say what you would do then
<pipecloud>
Lewix: What I'd probably do to make it not suck while not using define_singleton_method is to lamely grab the class object and assign it to a variable, probably local, and then do klass.send(:define_method, method)
<Senjai>
Lewix: Putting that in a block changes what self is, so you'd be defining arbitrarily onto whatever the context is at the time the block is executed
<pipecloud>
I think he knows.
<Senjai>
pipecloud: Why would you do Klass.send(:define_method, method)?
<pipecloud>
Senjai: Because I just don't like the syntactic sugar of define_singleton_method, I guess.
<Lewix>
pipecloud: I don't see the whole point of doing that. I prefer my suggestion
<Senjai>
pipecloud: Both are ugly as hell
<pipecloud>
Lewix: I can see why you would.
<pipecloud>
Senjai: It's true.
<Senjai>
It's much nicer to make a formal decorator, and open up the class in a seperate file.
<Senjai>
MyClass.class_eval { .. do stuff .. }
<pipecloud>
Lewix: I'm tainted by having to write code that those newer must understand easily. That includes the object model parts.
<pipecloud>
Senjai: But what if the class isn't known at runtime?
<Senjai>
pipecloud: use get_const
<pipecloud>
I mean, not all metaprogramming is just to save on typing.
<pipecloud>
Senjai: How do you know what to pass get_const?
<Senjai>
err
<pipecloud>
it's const_get
<Senjai>
const_get
<pipecloud>
Senjai: define_singleton_method is neat enough.
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<pipecloud>
Lewix: It's definitely a taste thing.
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<pipecloud>
Senjai: Alternatively I could use extend instead of send.
<pipecloud>
publicmethodsrite
<Senjai>
pipecloud: Firstly, I would use active support for these things because it is awesome. "MyClass".constantize.class_eval do
<pipecloud>
Senjai: No.
<Lewix>
Senjai: hmm seems like too much for so little
<pipecloud>
If you don't know what the class object is, even if it points to a constant, how can you materialize it?
<Senjai>
pipecloud: What is the context of this issue?
<Senjai>
What "do" you have
<pipecloud>
Senjai: someone wanting to know how to define methods on the eigenclass of a class.
<Lewix>
Senjai: scroll up
<Senjai>
So you must know or have access to the class..
<Senjai>
Or will eventually
<Senjai>
Still need context.
<pipecloud>
I think my point is that if you have access to the class, you can iterate over the method names and define methods in that class by passing define_method to the class object itself.
<Senjai>
"My method receives an instance of a class as it's argument. Given this instance, I wish to define method x on the eigenclass of that instance"
<Senjai>
^ Is context
<pipecloud>
Senjai: Scroll up to the first gist. :)
<pipecloud>
Mine depends on somehow having the class object in hand to send methods to.
<Senjai>
Oh dear that isn't nice at all
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<Senjai>
Well firstly, that code shouldn't exist, there most certainly is a better solution to whatever that's trying to solve
<pipecloud>
The cleanest looking is define_singleton_method, I just don't like the name of that method.
<pipecloud>
Senjai: That's a matter of taste preferences toward or against metaprogramming.
<Senjai>
pipecloud: Right, I'd agree, in that case, but the code should not exist :P
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<pipecloud>
He's defining scope-like class methods on a class.
<Senjai>
pipecloud: Right, but there are actual scopes for that.
<pipecloud>
Lewix: I feel like define_singleton_method is a bit of a misnomer.
<pipecloud>
Senjai: I don't use scopes.
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<pipecloud>
I use class methods that return chainable objects.
<pipecloud>
Preference thing.
<Senjai>
pipecloud: Right
<pipecloud>
Senjai: He could be in some kind of hell where he doesn't know the class he's going to be defining those methods on at write time. One can only hope that isn't the case.
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<Senjai>
but where would you get in a case where you have an array of things, and you need to create a scope for every item in that array on an object?
<Senjai>
Given that the scope doesn't hide any complexity (really) and is more unreadable
<pipecloud>
When you know that an object must have a scope for each of a certain known list of things, but don't know the object at write time?
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<pipecloud>
Senjai: It's a DSL that I don't willingly accept.
<Senjai>
pipecloud: Right, I don't accept it either, and thus I think it shouldn't exist :P
<pipecloud>
Senjai: You don't like scopes either? :D
<Senjai>
pipecloud: Scopes are needed for complex queries and hiding complexity. But they're used way too often for the wrog things
<Senjai>
ActiveRecord isn't perfect, so yea we use them at work, but only to hide complexity.
<pipecloud>
Senjai: No they're not.
<pipecloud>
You can make a scope equivalent class method easily.
<Senjai>
They are pretty damn close to the same thing iirc
<pipecloud>
I don't litter my objects with activerecordian scope DSL shit.
<pipecloud>
The only benefit to using scopes is when you don't trust others to write methods that return always chainable objects.
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<Senjai>
pipecloud: Right, but you make a class method, that returns a chainable object (which is just anything that is an ActiveRecord::Relation)
<Senjai>
It's a scope
<Senjai>
whether you call it one or not, that's the pattern
<pipecloud>
Until that day, I write ruby.
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<Lewix>
pipecloud: ya preference thing but scope are eager loaded
<pipecloud>
Lewix: 'eager loaded' in what way? They're lambdas, they don't eager load.
<pipecloud>
They do the opposite. They're lazy.
<Senjai>
Lewix: Nope, they lazy
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<Senjai>
Lewix: Proof: def func; lalala; end (no error)
<Senjai>
then you call the func :)
<Lewix>
I prefer not to use scope either - i don't have good reasons why
<Lewix>
yes lazy
<pipecloud>
Let me blow your mind: You can write class methods that are chainable whose return objects are lazily loaded.
<Senjai>
pipecloud: Define chainable?
<pipecloud>
Senjai: They return objects that are built like criterion, chainable to form some expression that can be extended and modified by the presence or lack of presence of other criterion.
<Senjai>
What does a scope have to do with the return value of anything
<pipecloud>
In the case of scopes, chainable with activerecord and activerelation methods.
<Senjai>
Right
<Senjai>
Well
<Lewix>
but if you do not use lambda
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<Lewix>
it's evaluated when the class is loaded
<pipecloud>
Senjai: They return chainable objects that you can further extend the criterion with more of the same kind of object.
<Senjai>
Hello.where(..stuff..) is just as chainable as scope :stuff ->(){Hello.where(..stuff..)} and def self.stuff; Hello....; end
<Senjai>
And anything is chainable
<pipecloud>
Senjai: It's chainable in that you can continue sending messages to the receiver of the last message send.
<pipecloud>
Senjai: Ah I see! Then why the fuck does anyone use scopes? :(
<pipecloud>
whitequark: Am I allowed to say 'fuck' here?
<Senjai>
pipecloud: They do. At least at my work they're used
<pipecloud>
Senjai: I silently refactor scopes at work after the author has moved on.
<pipecloud>
Mostly because some of my coworkers drink the rails kool-aid a little too readily.
<Senjai>
It's just another way to define class methods, with extra juice added for AR::Rel, my issue with them is that newbies use them when they think its easier to do it instead of def self.method
<Senjai>
or class << self
<pipecloud>
I agree.
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<Senjai>
Not only that, it couples any logic to ActiveRecord.... and coupling when you don't have to is bad
<Senjai>
ergo
<Senjai>
scopes should only be used when returning an active record relation, or building complex query logic with active record
<Senjai>
Subqueries and hhe like
<pipecloud>
However, I would use it if it were more of a common interface, like Queue.
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<Senjai>
def self.method is my preference, but I don't nag at class << self.
<pipecloud>
I use def self.method when I'm only defining methods. I use class << self when I'm doing other things.
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<Senjai>
self.method is just the most obvious and most readable for me, class << self is likewise, but if you're defining a large number of methods, sometimes you may need to move around the file to determine if its a class method or not
<pipecloud>
I also use instance_eval and class_eval mostly in modules.
<pipecloud>
Senjai: It's also useful when you're grouping private methods together.
<Senjai>
I rarely use instance_eval. Almost only in a modules included definition
<whitequark>
pipecloud: I guess? people do that.
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<pipecloud>
whitequark: I forget which crappy ruby channel forbids it. :D
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<Senjai>
TLDR: Don't use scopes if you don't have to, if you're building an ActiveRecord::Relation it's considered best practice and gives you extra quirks
<Senjai>
But you can do the same thing in a class method if you want to
<pipecloud>
And if you feel as if you want to impress me, never use scopes.
<Senjai>
unless its just ActiveRecordClass.query_building_stuff.here_you_go
<pipecloud>
Senjai: I think it's just like concerns, pushing more of their opinions down into your applications.
<pipecloud>
Like autoloading as well. :(
* pipecloud
doesn't like autoloading :(
<Senjai>
Concerns don't need to be a thing, callbacks shouldn't be a thing on ActiveRecord models
<Senjai>
they are because we're lazy
<pipecloud>
^
<pipecloud>
It's like you're my special friend I never knew about!
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<pipecloud>
Senjai: It's because side effects regardless of context are omgamaziiing, right. :(*
<pipecloud>
I'm still convinced that controller callbacks are a fuck you to rack middleware.
<Senjai>
I just want to be able to create a Something without going into dbconsole
<Senjai>
The application should use a SomethingFactory to make Somethings, and callbacks should be on that
<Senjai>
Something should just be a model of the data in the db, and how to access it
<Senjai>
But thats a lot of work so we don't do that in real life
<pipecloud>
I don't know if you need callbacks ever. I just encapsulate behaviours into objects.
<pipecloud>
People call them 'service objects', which is a misnomer for a behaviour object, which is a misnomer for an encapsulation of behaviour and the data that goes along with it.
<Senjai>
If you seperate Something from It's factory, you can switch Somethings for OtherThings dead easily if it impliments the same API
<pipecloud>
ThingDoers are great!
<Senjai>
I have to watch movies with the lady, good convos
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<pipecloud>
Senjai: My condolences, get some!
<pipecloud>
Get some popcorn, I mean.
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<yorickpeterse>
lol RDS
<yorickpeterse>
authorization quota exceeded
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<yorickpeterse>
who the fuck puts a quota on that in the first place
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<Epaphus>
SOrry..
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<Epaphus>
Notify I joined!
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<Epaphus>
Hey, I wanted to ask how to create a simple messaging program and where I should look towards for Ruby?
<yorickpeterse>
messaging of what?
<yorickpeterse>
You mean a chat app?
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<Epaphus>
Basically yes
<yorickpeterse>
There's a million ways to do it, anything more specific in that area that you're looking for/interested in?
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<Epaphus>
I want to manage a server where everyone connects to and chats in...
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<yorickpeterse>
What I mean is, asking "how do I write a chat app" is like asking "how does life come to be?". In terms of underlying technologies alone there are so many directions to head into
<yorickpeterse>
e.g. you can use EventMachine, or not, maybe put things in a DB, etc
<yorickpeterse>
Having said that
<yorickpeterse>
If you're doing this in Ruby you'll probably need a Ruby that is actually concurrent such as Rbx or Jruby
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<darix>
2014 and people still want to invent new chat protocols instead of just using xmpp?
<yorickpeterse>
For learning exercises I don't see the problem with that
<darix>
admitted most people gimp the access to their xmpp servers in the end (hello facebook and whats app) but at least ...
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<cout>
irc > *
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<yorickpeterse>
meh, IRC isn't a silver bullet
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<cout>
I don't see why not
<cout>
I use it for everything
<chris2>
xmpp is pretty terrible imo :P
<yorickpeterse>
cout: try keeping it up and running when under a ddos
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<yorickpeterse>
Granted I doubt xmpp would deal better with it
<yorickpeterse>
IRC is one of the better specified / developed protocols though
<yorickpeterse>
hihihi, CTO just used `say` in the office mac mini to tell other bossman to get us beer
<yorickpeterse>
(mac mini is on the other end)
<yorickpeterse>
yay SSH
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<yorickpeterse>
ok now said mac is singing
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<darix>
cout: i cant just run my own irc server and talk with my friends on another irc server.
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<cout>
darix: why would you want to run your own irc server? that's so much work...
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<darix>
cout: actually it isnt.
<darix>
it only gets a lot of work if you let random people on it.
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<cout>
I'd rather crank up my car and go talk to my friends at a coffee shop anyway
<yorickpeterse>
I never got the interest some show in pimping their cars
<yorickpeterse>
then again they probably think the same about my interest in tech
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<cout>
cars are tech :)
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<yorickpeterse>
details
<cout>
I appreciate the work people put into their cars
<cout>
but the cold air intakes and sound systems don't impress me. that's just bolt-on stuff.
<|jemc|>
It has some other features that are useful to me, like a weak map implementation that is intended for public usage, unlike ObjectSpace::WeakMap
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<|jemc|>
as well as a nice tidy system for testing that will do the mock garbage collection and expiry automatically
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<|jemc|>
and, if the readme is to be believed, conformance across the various ruby implementations
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<poor_leno>
what approach do you guys suggest for having efficient ways of loading translated data for active record models?
<poor_leno>
sorry ignore above
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<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: the fuck you need fog for, you should be using autoscaling for that on EC2
<yorickpeterse>
unless you want to spawn them on-demand, then just use the aws-sdk (unless I'm missing some part where fog is useful for just AWS)
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<yorickpeterse>
even then, put stuff in an autoscaling group even if you don't scale up automatically
<yorickpeterse>
it's much easier to just say "increase desired capacity by 1 plox" opposed to "start this instance with this AMI, this disk config, this security group, etc, etc"
<yorickpeterse>
granted it takes some time to set up
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<ljarvis>
yorickpeterse: no im not talking about scaling
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<yorickpeterse>
Hm, then I'm probably missing something
<ljarvis>
I'm talking about quickly spinning instances us for random stuff
<ljarvis>
ie a single command
<yorickpeterse>
aah
<yorickpeterse>
that's the one part I actively use the web console for
<yorickpeterse>
the `aws` CLI is too painful to use