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<
nowayride >
Hi, why would running sinatra with assigning a sys call to a var then passing to erb or whatever, just dump the sys call's output directly, like assigning `uptime` to a var for parsing ends up outputting `uptime` directly to webpage, and I can't manage to get the formatted output anywhere but console
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<
erikh >
you potheads.
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09:33
<
ljarvis >
boytoy: that's a bad idea
09:34
<
boytoy >
ljarvis: everybody does it
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09:34
<
ljarvis >
boytoy: no, not 'everybody' does it
09:34
<
ljarvis >
Google does, but they almost certainly don't do it in a middleware
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09:35
<
boytoy >
kinda like to crown ones work. and to tell people trying to view your source that "hey, i expected you'd be doing this" :p
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09:35
<
ljarvis >
Sure, but in a middleware? You want slow-ass ruby to spend time removing your spaces while your users are waiting for a response?
09:35
<
ljarvis >
of course you don't :)
09:35
<
boytoy >
no i probably dont
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09:36
<
ljarvis >
if you want minified html, use minified views
09:36
<
ljarvis >
I dont see the point in minified html, myself, though
09:36
<
ljarvis >
(for speed reasons)
09:36
<
boytoy >
minified views is a no go though, i like em well indented and easy to maintain
09:37
<
boytoy >
so if not ruby what should i use?
09:37
<
ljarvis >
agreed, which is why I use slim (or haml)
09:37
<
boytoy >
was easy for me to find minifiers for css and js but not a single one for html
09:37
<
boytoy >
ooh slim? i gotta look that up
09:38
<
ljarvis >
eh, the language doesn't matter. You shouldn't minify html on every request. It makes absolutely no sense, what do you think is faster, rendering html with whitespace, or html which is run through a minifying and then returned without whitespace?
09:38
<
ljarvis >
Yeah, that's because css/js is minified on asset precompile
09:38
<
ljarvis >
html views are not assets
09:38
<
ljarvis >
if you want minified html, you need to minify it during the asset precompile stage also
09:39
<
ljarvis >
(again, slim solves this for me, though)
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09:40
<
ljarvis >
slim is different because whilst is also needs to generate html from its own syntax, it has some hardcore caching techniques, and is probably only slightly slower than erb (the tradeoff is worth it, for me). But with corect http-caching, you shouldn't be worrying about any of this
09:40
<
boytoy >
ljarvis: minify during asset precompile interesting
09:41
<
ljarvis >
boytoy: yeah, good luck with that :P
09:42
<
ljarvis >
check out the source of twitter or fb, no minifying (and many other speedy websites)
09:42
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09:43
<
ljarvis >
use gzip responses and correct caching, problem solved
09:43
<
boytoy >
im doing that too
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09:43
<
ljarvis >
then stop worrying :)
09:43
<
boytoy >
but would like to minify just to crown my work
09:43
<
ljarvis >
'crown my work' wat
09:43
<
boytoy >
add that little extra level of detail :p
09:43
<
ljarvis >
what detail?
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09:44
<
ljarvis >
"oh look i can remove whitespace"?
09:44
<
boytoy >
yeah and comments removed
09:44
<
ljarvis >
html comments are there for a reason, to be in the output
09:45
<
ljarvis >
people dont care what your source looks like
09:45
<
boytoy >
yeah but to be read by devs not the general public
09:45
<
boytoy >
i wouldnt be so sure
09:45
<
ljarvis >
hell, make your website super fast and your source code HUGE, THAT looks more impressive
09:45
<
boytoy >
theres a lot of competition going on these days
09:45
<
ljarvis >
"I know how the web works"
09:45
<
ljarvis >
haha with minifying html? behave
09:46
<
boytoy >
quora does it too
09:46
<
ljarvis >
quora is not a good example is a good website
09:46
<
boytoy >
but fb is?
09:46
<
boytoy >
no you behave
09:46
<
ljarvis >
fb if the perfect example of a great website
09:46
<
ljarvis >
like it or not
09:47
<
boytoy >
fb and quora were designed by the same chick so
09:47
<
ljarvis >
ah yeah I forgot one person design them both entirely
09:47
<
ljarvis >
twitters source code is over 6 thousand lines long
09:47
<
ljarvis >
and their page renders in under 200ms for me
09:48
<
ljarvis >
THAT is impressive
09:48
<
ljarvis >
that condensed into a single line earns no brownie points, and just maks it look like shit
09:48
<
ljarvis >
same with github
09:49
<
boytoy >
well she did design quora entirely up to just recently, and she laid the groundwork for much of facebook's current ui elements (not sure about the upcoming newsfeed redesign though)
09:49
<
boytoy >
but look i know minifying my html may seem pointless to you
09:49
<
ljarvis >
ok it looks like I can't convince you you're trying to solve a non-problem, so I wish you best of luck with it
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09:50
<
ljarvis >
that was genuine even if it didn't seem like it
09:50
<
boytoy >
but i like paying extreme attention to details, i feel it sorta elevates my app to a higher plane
09:51
<
Nilium >
Do you have data to back up your focus on a particular detail, though?
09:52
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09:52
<
Nilium >
If you don't, it's probably just masturbation and avoiding a real problem.
09:52
<
boytoy >
Nilium: thats always good to have true, but for now im just following my heart
09:52
<
Nilium >
Masturbation: ✔
09:52
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09:53
<
erikh >
world's oldest profession
09:53
<
erikh >
programmers not listening to benchmarks
09:53
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09:53
<
Nilium >
To be fair, I reinvent wheels like it's going out of style, so it's not like I'm innocent.
09:53
<
erikh >
nothing wrong with reinventing to add value
09:54
<
erikh >
or dealing with, well, a pain in the ass maintainer
09:54
<
Nilium >
The latter is usually the problem.
09:54
<
erikh >
unfortunately it is too often
09:54
<
Nilium >
Or the maintainer just disappeared/became a philosopher/fell into a black hole.
09:54
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09:55
<
Nilium >
That said, most of the things I reinvent are just because I wanted to try it. E.g., using ZeroMQ for thread communication in Android despite there being stuff for that already.
09:55
<
ljarvis >
reinventing the wheel for educational gain is no crime
09:55
<
Nilium >
Mostly because sockets are fun and I don't have to get a lock to pass data between threads.
09:58
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10:11
<
erikh >
I reinvented farting
10:11
<
erikh >
I disrupted gas
10:11
<
ljarvis >
and eloquently so
10:12
<
Nilium >
I'd say the old farts were better. Your not-invented-here fart is a cheap imitation, like a bassoon held up to a harp.
10:12
<
ljarvis >
well said
10:13
<
Nilium >
I really need to order some new cups for my headphones.
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<
ridders24 >
hi, is it possible to return more than the 20 most recent tweets from a user timeline via the twitter gem?
11:16
<
ljarvis >
:count (Integer) — Specifies the number of records to retrieve. Must be less than or equal to 200.
11:19
<
ridders24 >
ljarvis: thank you
11:23
<
apeiros >
reading docs - a lost art :-p
11:23
<
ljarvis >
it appears so!
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11:34
<
erikh >
haha you guys
11:34
<
erikh >
for like a decade ruby had no docs to speak of
11:35
<
nowayride >
Why is the guy looking at the trash
11:36
<
ljarvis >
hey one mans trash if another mans bag of crap
11:38
<
apeiros >
wall of rain
11:38
<
apeiros >
good thing I didn't bike to work
11:38
<
ljarvis >
good thing I didn't leave my bed to work
11:38
<
nowayride >
Try 100F weather then say that.. rain would be lovely
11:39
<
apeiros >
oh I'm absolutely happy about the rain
11:39
<
apeiros >
it has been too hot here for weeks
11:39
<
ljarvis >
heh I know that feeling
11:39
<
ljarvis >
it was hot once when I left this country
11:39
<
apeiros >
but I'd be rather unhappy about having to bike home in this rain :D
11:39
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<
rue >
Biking in the rain is perfectly fine if you know you’ll be dry in < 1 hour anyway
11:40
<
rue >
Also, there were plenty of docs, shush
11:41
<
apeiros >
rue: in
*a bit of rain*, ok. but this is *a wall* of rain.
11:41
<
apeiros >
and I say that being one of those people who usually don't bother to use an umbrella when it rains
11:41
<
nowayride >
Well, still, better a wall of rain than a funnel of wind
11:42
<
apeiros >
i.e., it's not about getting wet. it's about the street being washed away under you and you drowning
11:43
<
nowayride >
So, Sinatra and Xenserver API is pretty fun
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15:47
<
imperator >
good morning
15:48
<
imperator >
any chance i can get some help making a better tcp ping?
15:48
<
imperator >
i'm trying to avoid using Timeout.timeout
15:48
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15:50
<
imperator >
and it has to be cross-platform, so no SO_RCVTIMEO, etc
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16:01
<
freedrull >
is there a :jruby_18 option for specifying a platform in bundler?
16:01
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16:12
<
freedrull >
seriously no one has tried to submit a patch for that yet?
16:13
<
rue >
Many have tried. None have returned…
16:13
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16:14
<
imperator >
how's your socket programming rue? ;)
16:14
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16:15
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16:15
<
rue >
Used to be okay…
16:15
<
rue >
Then I started writing Ruby
16:15
<
imperator >
right after you took an arrow to the knee?
16:16
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<
rue >
imperator: I think you want to check write rather than read for connect()
16:20
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16:21
<
kek >
what's the deal with having both #ruby-lang and #ruby?
16:22
<
imperator >
rue, ugh, i thought i tried that!
16:22
<
imperator >
it seems to work
16:23
<
rue >
kek: My blood pressure was too low, the docs said, so we had to improvise
16:25
<
rue >
imperator: I’m also not sure whether you want to actually have the code inside the EINPROGRESS; I think you could just rescue it as a no-op, and then wait on the socket
16:25
<
rue >
At least I think it’s theoretically possible that you /don’t/ get an EINPROGRESS at all
16:25
<
imperator >
kek, the first rule of #ruby-lang is that we don't talk about #ruby
16:26
<
kek >
And now you broke it :)
16:28
<
imperator >
rue, tinkering around with it, doesn't want to play
16:31
<
imperator >
ah, wait, think i got it
16:31
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16:32
<
yorickpeterse >
Ragel is pretty cool
16:32
<
yorickpeterse >
now that I'm slowly starting to understand it
16:32
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16:35
<
imperator >
rue, can i assume that if i get no response from the select, it's an econnrefused?
16:37
<
rue >
I don’t know if you can assume that, but it may be the case?
16:37
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16:37
<
imperator >
hm, is there a good way to tell?
16:37
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16:38
<
rue >
You should get ECONNREFUSED if that’s what it is, no?
16:38
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16:39
<
rue >
How many is that, 15?
16:42
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16:44
<
imperator >
(well, added a comment below)
16:45
<
imperator >
i think for my purposes, any failure outside of Socket.getaddrinfo can be considered a refusal of some sort
16:46
<
imperator >
hm, well, there is ehostunreach...
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<
imperator >
although...those should happen in the connect call, nm
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<
imperator >
yorickpeterse, i vaguely recall zed shaw talking about it many years ago for a web server i think
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17:15
<
rue >
imperator: Does it/can you get it to work with #connect instead of nonblock?
17:16
<
rue >
That + rescuing Errno should give you a better thingy
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17:19
<
imperator >
rue, it'll work, but i can't control the timeout then (can i?)
17:19
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17:46
<
asahi >
i have a statement like foo = bar.text but there are cases where bar is nil. what's a good way to deal with this?
17:47
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17:47
<
whitequark >
if you have activesupport, bar.try(:text)
17:47
<
whitequark >
otherwise bar && bar.text
17:47
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17:48
<
imperator >
or bar and bar.text, depending on how you want it to evaluate
17:48
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17:48
<
waxjar >
patch NilClass to have a method_missing that always returns nil
17:48
<
asahi >
got it. thanks
17:48
<
waxjar >
(and see the world burn)
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<
imperator >
weird, i get an econnrefused trying to open a TCPSocket on localhost, but it works with raw sockets
18:07
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<
imperator >
hm, i think this will require 1.9 or later
18:19
<
imperator >
oh, well
18:19
<
asahi >
is there a cleaner way to write this expression? !href.match('^/wiki').nil?
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18:21
<
imperator >
if href.match ?
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18:26
* imperator
posts on ruby-talk-google for the first time in a long time
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<
freedrull >
how can i properly disconnect from irc instead of just waiting for ping timeout, just close the socket?
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