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<ljarvis>
:)
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<ndrst>
is there a usable Rubygems proxy?
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<ledestin>
ndrst: maybe it uses http_proxy?
<ndrst>
I would like to have a local (ci) ruby gems cache/proxy
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<ledestin>
who prevents you from having a http proxy locally?
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<ndrst>
~20 different machines on different vlans
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<ledestin>
well, then a local proxy wouldn't be good would it?
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<ledestin>
might be a misunderstanding
<ledestin>
well, have a http proxy and use http_proxy to set it up if gems do support it
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<ndrst>
hm that would be an idea, can I tell bundler to use a proxy?
<ledestin>
that's what you have to find out
<ledestin>
and not bundler, gem
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<ndrst>
ledestin: thanks for the input! maybe that works! (:
<ledestin>
ndrst: you're welcome
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<danilo2>
Hello! I'm new to Ruby and I'm a passionate about programing lanuages. I would love to learn more about the Ruby design details. I want to ask you some questions. The first is - in Ruby we have functions and variables. If you write a function name- it is equal to its execution, so writing "a+f" depends on what "a" and "f" is. If "f" is a function it is exeuted, if "a" is variable - its value is used, right?
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<waxjar>
that's correct. expect in Ruby there are no functions, only methods :)
<danilo2>
waxjar: I understand, all the global "functions" I write are methofds of correspnding "module" or something?
<waxjar>
the top level is called main and is an Object, i believe. not too sure about that
<ledestin>
waxjar: that's correct
<danilo2>
Ok great :) But if methods and variables can be used in very simmilar way - while writing a code we do NOT know what is a method call and what is simple variable, do we? (without looking at the definitions). Additional if "f" can be both variable accessor and method call, is it possible to somehow add a "callable" method to var variable in such way, that if I write "a" (and "a" is a variable holding isntance of my custom class) it
<danilo2>
I mean - if I write "x = new A" (I know that in Ruby probably there is no "new" keyword), than writing "a = x" will assign x to a, or is it possible to create a special method, that will tell ruby, that "class A is callable", so it will execute this method during the assigment?
<danilo2>
I'm talking about something equivalent to pythons "__call__" method
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<ledestin>
don't understand
<waxjar>
i'm not really sure what you mean, but you have to remember that everything in ruby is an Object. so wether f is a variable or a method call doesn't really matter, it'll return an object either way
<waxjar>
there's no such thing as a callable
<danilo2>
heh I'm sorry guys :) I'll try to explain that better :) I know everything is an object. But it is possible, that a class instance will behave LIKE a method? I mean - it IS possible to create method "def test \n puts "!!!"\n return 5\n end" and If i use it like (1+test) I'll get output in terminal. Is it possible to create class instance "a", which while using like "b=a" will print output to terminal?
<waxjar>
you want something to be called when you assign an object to a variable?
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<danilo2>
waxjar: yeah - something like that :) when I assign "function" to variable (the function is called) - I want exactly the same behavior with instances of my custom class - is it possbile?
<waxjar>
not that i know of
<danilo2>
waxjar: Thank you, so I understand it is not possible to write class A, which can be "callable"? I mean if I create instance "a" of class "A", i cannot use it like "x = a 1, 2, 3" ?
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<waxjar>
no
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<waxjar>
because the instance of a would be an object. you send messages to objects (e.g. call methods: object.message argument), but not much else.
<danilo2>
ok so in Ruby we can "call" only methods - it is not possible to write ANY object thatwill behave like a method? (I'm sorry for so detailed questions - this topic is very important to me)
<matled>
danilo2: yeah, there are conventions, e.g. having a #call method on procs/method objects/...
<waxjar>
ruby has procs, blocks and lambda's that are as close to functions as you can get in ruby
<matled>
danilo2: so a = proc { return something }; a.call would probably be similar to the __call__ thing from python (but I don't know python)
<waxjar>
they can be invoked with #call or #[] or like so: lambda.(..)
<matled>
err, without the return
<danilo2>
in Python if I create "class A: def __call__ (self): return 5" I can create its instance: "a = A()" and then call THIS INSTANCE: "b = a()" (which executes the __call__ method
<danilo2>
matled: Ok, so we have to explicitly write ".call" to call it - it makes sense :)
<waxjar>
in ruby you'd do b = a.call
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<danilo2>
ok, than you very much :)
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<waxjar>
yw
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<danilo2>
Ok last question - it could sound stupid but I'm trying rght now to compare ruby to hasell in my mind :) Is there a difference in ruby between a variable and a function, which returns a constant value? I mean - we use them in the same way (a+b) or (a+f) (where f is a function and b is a variable). Do they differ something when it comes to possible usages in Ruby?
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<Harzilein>
danilo2: i think a bit further back your message got truncated. if your client does not split messages maybe you should make sure to stop a bit earlier, so your ircuser, hostname etc. still fit into the message
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<danilo2>
I'm using webchat.freenode.net
<danilo2>
I'l split it maybe by hand
<danilo2>
Ok last question - it could sound stupid but I'm trying rght now to compare ruby to hasell in my mind :)
<danilo2>
Is there a difference in ruby between a variable and a function, which returns a constant value?
<waxjar>
danilo2: ruby doesn't really have functions
<danilo2>
I mean - we use them in the same way (a+b) or (a+f) (where f is a function and b is a variable). Do they differ something when it comes to possible usages in Ruby?
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<Harzilein>
danilo2: i think truncation occured here: " is it possible to somehow add a "callable" method to var variable in
<Harzilein>
class) it
<Harzilein>
such way, that if I write "a" (and "a" is a variable holding isntance of my custom
<danilo2>
waxjar: Of course - it has methods - sorry for the wrong word :)
<Harzilein>
argh
<Harzilein>
sorry, that should have been one line
<waxjar>
it's not just a different, word. functions in haskell and methods in ruby are very different
<waxjar>
haskell functions can return new functions, ruby methods can and will only return objects
<danilo2>
waxjar: so its not possible in ruby to return a lambda from a function?
<waxjar>
it is, a lambda is just an object (that you call #call on)
<waxjar>
i think its useful to view them as two different concepts rather than variations of the same thing
<waxjar>
functions are self-contained, methods are always bound to an object
<danilo2>
waxjar: I see, in Ruby lambdas and methods are different concepts - that is very interesting :)
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<waxjar>
methods on the top level may look like functions not bound to any object, but they're really methods bound to "main"
<danilo2>
waxjar: ok :) and methods cannot return methods, only objects. That solves my question now :)
<danilo2>
thank you :)
<waxjar>
yw :)
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<mbj>
p/QUIT
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<spike|spiegel>
danilo2: sorry, who says methods can't return methods?
<spike|spiegel>
there are method objects (bound and unbound)
<danilo2>
spike: Oh, so there are unbound methods in uby ?
<danilo2>
*Ruby
<spike|spiegel>
sure
<danilo2>
spike: But I understand, that unbound method have to be bound before calling it ?
<spike|spiegel>
yes
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<danilo2>
but as I see, aftr binding an unbound method to an object we can call it like "m.call(args)"
<danilo2>
and we cannot use the standard syntactic method sugar like "m args"
<waxjar>
they're represented as objects, tho
<spike|spiegel>
you need to bind, get the right scopes, after all it's a method and not a regular subroutine
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<spike|spiegel>
syntactic sugar is just what it is
<spike|spiegel>
sugar.
<spike|spiegel>
waxjar: so classes are also objects..
<danilo2>
ok :) so unbound methods are objects, that have method "bound", which results a lambda - am I right?
<waxjar>
true
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<waxjar>
but you can't do functional programming a la haskell with Method objects
<yorickpeterse>
wat
<waxjar>
you cant do "a()" where a is a method that returns another method
<whitequark>
that's mainly a syntactic difference
<danilo2>
waxjar: yes, because I have to use a.call()
<waxjar>
i don't think it is whitequark, you can make it work but the concepts are very different imo
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<whitequark>
waxjar: it's just like a difference between a functional lang and a language with first-class objects
<whitequark>
er, functions
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<whitequark>
ruby is the latter but not the former, same here.
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<waxjar>
i don't disagree
<spike|spiegel>
you have to implement pattern matching yourself, so meh
<whitequark>
lack of pattern matching is sad, yeah :/
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<whitequark>
on the very end of my backlog of things potentially to do is a macro for ruby which would provide pattern matching
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<danilo2>
Could somebody explain to me - if everythin in Ruby is an object (method is an object, my custom instance is an object also) why I can use syntax (f 1,2,3) with methds, but not with objects? Is this syntax allowed only for methods or there is a hidden logic?
<whitequark>
what would you expect it to do for objects ?
<apeiros>
danilo2: while a method is an object, in `x.foo()`, the `foo()` is not an object
<danilo2>
apeiros: could you tell more please?
<apeiros>
I wouldn't know what
<apeiros>
also, what whitequark said
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<danilo2>
apeiros: method is an object "in x.foo()", the "foo()" is not an object - then what is "foo"?
<apeiros>
it's syntax, instructing ruby to invoke (call) the method named 'foo' on the object referenced by x
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<danilo2>
whitequark: I do not expect anythink - I'm simply looking for reason why this syntax is allowed in some places while it is dissalowed in other. I mean - why we can write f 1,2,3 and we cannot write the same with lambdas
<whitequark>
what do you want to write with lambdas?
<whitequark>
show an example
<yorickpeterse>
I think I understand why some people like C
<yorickpeterse>
it lets them feel incredibly smug for doing boring shit like re-inventing resizable arrays of arbitrary values
<yorickpeterse>
(me included)
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<whitequark>
yes.
<matled>
yorickpeterse: yeah, for some things it seems easier to reimplement or copy+adapt than using a library in C. so you get to think about, or even solve, all those simple fun problems yourself :)
<yorickpeterse>
Having said that, I *was* lazy and just used uthash instead of doing a hash myself
<yorickpeterse>
because fuck that
<apeiros>
and every new implementation comes with its own reinvention of all the one-offs and other errors all previous implementations made…
<yorickpeterse>
because of course I get a new router and that one affects me
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<ddfreyne>
dominikh: Poke. Is yard-kramdown mature?
<ddfreyne>
I'd like to use it, but ther eis only one commit...
<dominikh>
ddfreyne: it's mature
<dominikh>
ddfreyne: runs in rubydoc.org and renders all my docs fine :)
<dominikh>
ddfreyne: if you look at the only ruby file in there, it's really simple :)
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<zzak>
hi
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<ddfreyne>
dominikh: Ok
<ddfreyne>
Question: Do people still use Gem::Specification#add_development_dependency? I feel like moving that to my Gemfile entirely.
<dominikh>
ddfreyne: oh, and: you only need yard-kramdown if you want to have .kmd or # @markup kramdown – you can already use kramdown as the default provider for the entire project by passing some flag to yardoc
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<ddfreyne>
dominikh: Doh, I'm actually using kramdown already. Not sure why I had rdiscount in my dependencies then
<dominikh>
:D
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<ddfreyne>
Ugh, Bundler is weird. There is no way to tell it to install only one group?
<whitequark>
don't think so
<yxhuvud>
you can tell it not to install certain groups.
<yxhuvud>
that config can also be put in config file.
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<yxhuvud>
note that it will still hit rubygems for everything unless the lock file is there and all requirements are fulfilled for each gem that should be installed.
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<ddfreyne>
gits
<ddfreyne>
Oops
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