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03:36
<
mth >
apparently qi-bot either ignored the commit or git choked on it
03:37
<
mth >
anyway, I just pushed jz-3.2
03:37
<
mth >
it runs on Dingoo and it compiles fine for NanoNote, but it needs testing on NanoNote as well
03:38
<
mth >
larsc, xiangfu: I did not merge all patches from 3.1
03:38
<
mth >
some were no longer needed
03:40
<
mth >
the hw I2C driver was not merged because larsc said it might not be worth the effort since the hw is really flaky
03:40
<
mth >
both the Dingoo and the NanoNote configs use i2c-gpio instead
03:40
<
mth >
the "JZ4740 cache quirks" commit was not merged, to see what happens without it
03:41
<
mth >
since larsc said we don't really know whether it helps or not
03:42
<
mth >
that alternative is not merged yet either though
03:42
<
mth >
so that's something to do
03:43
<
mth >
I took a quick look at the alternative and it seems to add new callbacks, so I guess that for it to be a solution we should register those callbacks
03:43
<
mth >
so what's required is not just a merge then, it's a merge + some new code
03:44
<
mth >
there were a lot of mainline cleanups in the NAND code; it might be useful to review the remaining NAND patches
03:45
<
mth >
flush_kernel_dcache_page was implemented by Ralf, but the implementation does nothing except a sanity check, so I'm not sure it actually fixes the problem we once had with MMC bounce buffers (when bounce buffers were accidentally enabled in the config)
03:53
<
mth >
I'm going to get some sleep now
04:20
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04:28
<
xiangfu >
mth, I will try that in nanonote.
04:30
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04:51
<
whitequark >
mth: per my personal experience, the "cache quirks" part does not do anything at all on jz4750l
04:51
<
whitequark >
maybe it was a workaround for earlier SoCs
04:51
<
whitequark >
like the msr0 quirk which is still needed
04:55
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04:59
<
whitequark >
do you remember how I talked about iteadstudio, which is a clone of seeedstudio?
04:59
<
whitequark >
just discovered a Malaysian Sparkfun clone
06:09
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06:56
<
whitequark >
I'm curious
06:57
<
whitequark >
if I'd drive a 2kW heater with 50hz PWM, the light in my room will blink, and my refrigerator will die
06:57
<
whitequark >
and what if I'd use 1khz (with an SSR)?
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07:43
<
wolfspraul >
whitequark: interesting link about ospid.com1
07:44
<
wolfspraul >
thanks, will check it a bit more but looks like we should definitely add it to the Qi planet
07:49
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09:24
<
GorDonFreeMan >
wazup?
09:30
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09:42
<
GorDonFreeMan >
hey Textmode
09:42
<
GorDonFreeMan >
;>>
09:42
<
GorDonFreeMan >
so you are a haxx0r
09:43
<
GorDonFreeMan >
soo qi-hardware is an electronic company?
09:43
<
GorDonFreeMan >
or a nonprofit organization supporting electronic projects?
09:48
<
whitequark >
wolfspraul: I'll definitely buy that controller when it'll be in stock
09:48
<
whitequark >
the author says that will happen in 4-5 weeks
09:49
<
whitequark >
I'm going to use it to make a reflow oven from a roaster. I really like almost everything about that piece of hardware
09:51
<
wolfspraul >
very good
09:51
<
wolfspraul >
PLEASE PLEASE keep us posted about that project
10:00
<
wolfspraul >
GorDonFreeMan: qi hardware is an open source project and definitely not 'non-profit' or 'non-commercial'
10:00
<
wolfspraul >
what we do can be used for commercial or noncommercial activities
10:00
<
wolfspraul >
like any other proper free software / open source project
10:06
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i'm planning to do both
10:06
<
GorDonFreeMan >
so, can you recommend things for my FPGA project?
10:07
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i have chosen some new 1.8V Xilinx FPGAs
10:07
<
GorDonFreeMan >
but i would need to "program" them with something
10:10
<
GorDonFreeMan >
is there some c00l linux tool for this?
10:11
<
GorDonFreeMan >
possibly not $$$ ?
10:11
<
GorDonFreeMan >
and not with forced registrations
10:12
<
GorDonFreeMan >
tracking/spyware/logging etc...
10:13
<
whitequark >
wolfspraul: absolutely. I'll following updates on their blog, and I'll tell everything interesting on IRC
10:13
<
whitequark >
and of course I'll write about my oven, when I'll do it
10:14
<
whitequark >
GorDonFreeMan: nope, there's only Xilinx tool and it sends your netlist to Xilinx, unless you've bought it for $1000 or so.
10:15
<
GorDonFreeMan >
aham i see
10:16
<
GorDonFreeMan >
so they allow you to make things that you give them
10:17
<
GorDonFreeMan >
this delays my FPGA project
10:17
<
GorDonFreeMan >
because i'm not contributing
10:17
<
wolfspraul >
do you have a link to prior projects of yours?
10:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
no i have not made a blog yet
10:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
in a few month i will have one
10:18
<
wolfspraul >
have you made a project before?
10:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
with Xilinx? no
10:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
but i have used several logic ics ;/
10:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
and i can make everything with 1 FPGA
10:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i surely will benefit from this
10:24
<
GorDonFreeMan >
my next project is a 3 axis CNC machine
10:24
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i would use an FPGA for stepper motor control too...
10:25
<
GorDonFreeMan >
then... maybe a robot arm, walking spider or whatever :)
10:26
<
blogic >
i owuld say a fpga to drive the stepper controller :D
10:26
<
blogic >
i owuld like to see you drive a stepper with a fpga
10:26
<
GorDonFreeMan >
;>>
10:26
<
GorDonFreeMan >
;>>>
10:26
<
blogic >
the fpga will blow up in no time
10:26
<
GorDonFreeMan >
blogic<< ok not with the FPGA's ports, i'd connect mosfets to them
10:26
<
blogic >
you want to drive a stepper with a h bridge ?
10:27
<
GorDonFreeMan >
you know, metal-oxide semiconductor
10:27
<
whitequark >
that's... insightful.
10:27
<
GorDonFreeMan >
blogic<< well the simplest form is not a h-bridge
10:27
<
GorDonFreeMan >
it's single ended
10:27
<
blogic >
have you used / seen a cnc machine before ?
10:29
<
GorDonFreeMan >
what is the meaning of that log whitequark ?
10:29
<
GorDonFreeMan >
blogic<< if you ask me this i'm thinking over why am i here
10:31
<
GorDonFreeMan >
sqrt(-1)
10:33
<
blogic >
GorDonFreeMan: dont get it
10:33
<
blogic >
its a simple question really
10:34
<
GorDonFreeMan >
well ou just assumed i'm retard
10:34
<
GorDonFreeMan >
ou/you
10:34
<
blogic >
where did i say that ?
10:34
<
GorDonFreeMan >
or troll
10:34
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[112611] <blogic> have you used / seen a cnc machine before ? - here
10:35
<
blogic >
you wrote you want to drive steppers with a FPGA
10:35
<
GorDonFreeMan >
yes
10:35
<
blogic >
just seemed to me that you have not used/built/setup a stepper controller
10:35
<
GorDonFreeMan >
so?
10:35
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i see
10:35
<
blogic >
as they dont normally come with FPGA and FPGA is sort of a misplaced component
10:36
<
blogic >
if you consider this to be an insult ... welll ...
10:36
<
blogic >
what can i say
10:36
<
blogic >
you came up with the stigma of you being a troll
10:36
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i see FPGA as a HUGE collection of ANY logic ics
10:36
<
blogic >
no one else did
10:36
<
GorDonFreeMan >
and i have stepper motor driver logic using logic ics
10:36
<
blogic >
i wish you lots of luck in your venture ;)
10:37
<
GorDonFreeMan >
so, i can make it like on a 20cm board
10:37
<
GorDonFreeMan >
and everything would fit in a tiny tqfp FPGA
10:37
<
GorDonFreeMan >
this was my logic
10:38
<
GorDonFreeMan >
as a side effect, it would have a step rate limit of 300MHz...
10:38
<
GorDonFreeMan >
not really matter for a stepper motor though
10:40
<
whitequark >
it will fit just as well in a tiny tqfp atmega
10:41
<
whitequark >
which is ten or fifty times cheaper, and easier to program, and does not need weird power voltage and filtered environment
10:41
<
whitequark >
*voltages, of course. All Xilinx fpga I've seen use three input voltages
10:42
<
whitequark >
have you ever tried to make a working buck converter?
10:44
<
GorDonFreeMan >
hm, yes, but microcontroller is not a logic block. and i can use the cheapest FPGA
10:45
<
whitequark >
proof: you can program FPGA to act like an AVR microcontroller
10:45
<
GorDonFreeMan >
a microcontroller executes instructions one after one
10:45
<
whitequark >
(if you don't use analog peripherals)
10:45
<
GorDonFreeMan >
an FPGA is a HUGE logic block array
10:45
<
whitequark >
and if you can make a microcontroller out of it, then a microcontroller is a subset of a huge logic block array
10:46
<
whitequark >
ergo, it is a logic block.
10:46
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[114328] <whitequark> proof: you can program FPGA to act like an AVR microcontroller - ahah ok then i'll never use an atmel again
10:46
<
GorDonFreeMan >
;>>
10:46
<
GorDonFreeMan >
tell me more about
10:46
<
whitequark >
do you know about a thing called "Internet"? just in case
10:46
<
whitequark >
there's a site in it no one knows about
10:46
<
whitequark >
it's called Google
10:46
<
GorDonFreeMan >
hmm, no please tell
10:47
<
whitequark >
so hard, I understand
10:47
<
GorDonFreeMan >
this is not what you said ;/
10:47
<
GorDonFreeMan >
this will bring up lots of results interfacing FPGA to an AVR
10:47
<
whitequark >
just curious, have you actually clicked on the link?
10:48
<
whitequark >
because the first result is exactly what I've said.
10:48
<
whitequark >
can you tell me your Hungarian street address? maybe I should come there and click a mouse button instead of you.
10:49
<
GorDonFreeMan >
ahah
10:49
<
GorDonFreeMan >
ok i clicked it
10:49
<
whitequark >
congratulations
10:49
<
wolfspraul >
let's be nice to each other :-)
10:50
<
whitequark >
have I said even one bad word to you?
10:50
<
whitequark >
no I did not
10:51
<
GorDonFreeMan >
hmm whitequark cool, i see someone took the time to make an FPGA act like an AVR8, but the AVR8 is still not a logic block
10:51
<
GorDonFreeMan >
my point is, it executes instructions in serial, not parallel
10:52
<
blogic >
wolfspraul: grouphug ?! :D
10:53
<
GorDonFreeMan >
in theory i can multiply arbitrary amount of floatingpoint numbers in parallel with an FPGA, do this with any atmel AVR.
10:53
<
wolfspraul >
grouphug! the qi-bot should have some feature to pass a matte cup around
10:53
<
whitequark >
GorDonFreeMan: sure, I'll just use an arbitrary number of AVRs
10:54
<
GorDonFreeMan >
:) that will be inefficient, and slow.
10:54
<
GorDonFreeMan >
and expensive.
10:55
<
GorDonFreeMan >
whitequark<< soo, since AVR is made out of logic blocks, you can make an AVR from an FPGA
10:55
<
GorDonFreeMan >
this is the difference
10:56
<
GorDonFreeMan >
you can make an X86 CPU from an FPGA...
10:56
<
GorDonFreeMan >
but why would you ?
10:56
<
GorDonFreeMan >
it will be only a waste of logics.
11:00
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i see
11:00
<
GorDonFreeMan >
"Having the core already implemented, you then only need to work with HDL for the parts of the project the AVR was unable to handle. "
11:00
<
whitequark >
GorDonFreeMan: how do you think Intel makes new CPUs? they get a huge FPGA from Xilinx and assemble it there
11:00
<
GorDonFreeMan >
but still waste of logic blocks
11:00
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i'm not developing new CPUS
11:01
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i have an input data, i have a logic (black box), and i need an output
11:02
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i just do it using whatever method i want
11:02
<
blogic >
wolfspraul: make that club mate bottles and its even better
11:03
<
GorDonFreeMan >
whitequark<< so i see we have different aspects of problem solving
11:05
<
whitequark >
GorDonFreeMan: still, my point about AVR being a "logic block" (whatever do you mean by that) is avlid
11:05
<
whitequark >
*valid
11:07
<
GorDonFreeMan >
an AVR is a huge macro of logic blocks.
11:07
<
GorDonFreeMan >
or rather a huge macro of macros of logic blocks
11:08
<
blogic >
may i ask something
11:08
<
GorDonFreeMan >
blogic<< what are your ?'s ? :)
11:08
<
blogic >
whats the aim of this discussion
11:08
<
GorDonFreeMan >
nothin'
11:08
<
GorDonFreeMan >
it's just waste of time
11:09
<
GorDonFreeMan >
it started with whitequark questioning me using an array of logic blocks (FPGA) for direct logic functions
11:11
<
GorDonFreeMan >
whitequark<< what are your projects?
11:11
<
GorDonFreeMan >
do you have a blog?
11:12
<
blogic >
A pipelined brainfuck softcore in Verilog
11:12
<
whitequark >
it's quite fast
11:13
<
whitequark >
also, very practical. As wpwrak said, "finally a device to run all of our brainfuck programs"
11:13
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i see so you're new to market :)
11:13
<
blogic >
GorDonFreeMan: who do you mean ?
11:13
<
GorDonFreeMan >
whitequark
11:13
<
blogic >
why do you say he is new to the market ?
11:13
<
GorDonFreeMan >
blogic<< and what are your projects? :)
11:14
<
GorDonFreeMan >
blogic<< well i looked at his website, still one more to go
11:14
<
whitequark >
NO U^W^W
11:14
<
blogic >
whyever you ask
11:15
<
blogic >
this is getting to bizarre
11:15
<
blogic >
GorDonFreeMan: you scare me
11:17
<
GorDonFreeMan >
blogic<< just collecting intelligence, no threats
11:19
<
whitequark >
GorDonFreeMan: you know all the meanings of word "intelligence", do you?
11:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
well i don't know if you interpreted this as i intended
11:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i'm not native
11:21
<
GorDonFreeMan >
i did not mean the basic meaning of intelligence
11:21
<
whitequark >
I have no doubt I interpreted it the right way
11:22
<
GorDonFreeMan >
well currently i don't have the words to describe alternative meanings to you in english now
11:23
<
larsc >
mth: but i think the new flush_kernel_dcache_page implementation is not sufficent
11:23
<
GorDonFreeMan >
whitequark<< yet i don't know you are picking on me, or just probing me
11:29
<
GorDonFreeMan >
blogic<< hehe, you created the internetz on wifi ?:)
11:30
<
GorDonFreeMan >
"best way to share your wifi"
11:31
<
GorDonFreeMan >
neat project hmmmm
11:33
<
GorDonFreeMan >
to give you insight of the meaning i meant
11:33
<
whitequark >
oh yeah
11:33
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11:33
<
whitequark >
FBI has a lot of intelligence
11:34
<
GorDonFreeMan >
FBI — Intelligence Collection Disciplines
11:34
<
whitequark >
GorDonFreeMan: can you give a hint why are you logged in from a machine called nude.lesbianbath.com?
11:34
<
whitequark >
I'm just curious
11:36
<
whitequark >
anyway
11:36
<
whitequark >
I'm so proud I'm talking with an owner of a porn site
11:36
<
GorDonFreeMan >
;>>
11:47
<
GorDonFreeMan >
whitequark<< i see an advantage of the automatic irclog :) :"what you say can, and will be used against you"
11:47
<
whitequark >
absolutely
11:49
<
whitequark >
pabs3: there are no FOSS tools of even alpha quality
11:49
<
whitequark >
there are some experiments, some half-working ones, but nothing you can use for even a simple real project
11:50
<
pabs3 >
thats better than no tools at all
11:50
<
whitequark >
marginally
11:50
<
whitequark >
is a C compiler which cannot compile any code found in the wild better than no C compliers at all? no
11:50
<
larsc >
a car without tires is better than no car at all, but not if you want to get anywhere
11:51
<
whitequark >
^ this.
11:51
<
viric >
have you played much with 'perf' on the nanonote?
11:51
<
GorDonFreeMan >
yeah, you only need to make tires.
11:51
<
pabs3 >
whitequark: do you have any links to these projects?
11:52
<
viric >
(if it works at all...)
11:52
<
viric >
are there performance counters in the jz4720?
11:52
<
larsc >
viric: not sure, but i don't think so
11:53
<
whitequark >
pabs3: nothing atm
11:54
<
larsc >
we have hw timers, but thats all
11:54
<
viric >
larsc: but they can't count per-process, right?
11:54
<
viric >
ah well, at scheduling, they can be checked...
11:55
<
larsc >
we use one of the timers as the clocksource for the system
11:55
<
whitequark >
larsc: don't we do that already?
11:55
<
viric >
what resolution?
11:56
<
viric >
can they be stored in a per-process variable at scheduling, to know the ticks per process?
11:56
<
larsc >
viric: i know nothong about perf, but i would expect that the kernel already does this
11:57
<
larsc >
whitequark: yes
11:58
<
whitequark >
larsc: oops, I read that as "can we use".
12:02
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12:04
<
larsc >
i've recently been toying with the idea of implementing a fpga on a fpga. don't know how feasible it is though.
12:06
<
viric >
larsc: it sounds like adding '|cat|' piping
12:06
<
viric >
larsc: just for later making an asic?
12:06
<
larsc >
you'd still depend on the proprietary tools, but it allows you to implement the whole stack
12:09
<
blogic >
interesting
12:09
<
blogic >
a uneducated question ....
12:10
<
blogic >
how do you simulate efuses in an fpga ?
12:10
<
blogic >
i always thought the gates are "wired" using efuses ... which in turn i thought were not really logic elements
12:10
<
blogic >
or am i totally wrong on that one ?
12:11
<
viric >
well, if you can emulate an fpga in software, you can emulate it in hw
12:11
<
blogic >
hence my quetion ... how would that work
12:12
<
blogic >
you can simply simulate it
12:12
<
larsc >
fpgas use lookup tables
12:12
<
blogic >
it would mean though that the resulting fpga has a lot less power and cells/gates than the the host fpga
12:13
<
blogic >
larsc: can oyu make a sentence of that so its more clear ?
12:13
<
viric >
they use memories with values
12:13
<
viric >
for the operations
12:13
<
viric >
Like you had logic tables of inputs and outputs
12:13
<
blogic >
did not know that
12:14
<
whitequark >
xilinx has a pretty good explanation in their datasheets
12:16
<
viric >
there are many memories acting as lookup tables, each with a few flipflops
12:17
<
blogic >
i am a noob at fpgas
12:17
<
blogic >
i installed ise last week and flashed my first "code" into a cpld last night
12:18
<
viric >
well, that's more than lots of people already
12:18
<
blogic >
i am currently looking for a spartan3 in the AN variant
12:18
<
blogic >
as in the one with the internal flash
12:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[125517] * roland (~quassel@phobos.martem.ee) has joined ##kernel
12:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[125552] <roland> Hi. Does linux 2.6 support RSTP ?
12:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[125959] <_7nb> nobody uses 2.4
12:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130024] <roland> _7nb: only really old embedded devices
12:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130030] <_7nb> which are of no importance..
12:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130042] <roland> _7nb: to you
12:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130108] <roland> there are a lot of 2.4 embedded devices in industrial applications
12:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130124] <_7nb> Quantify that.
12:18
<
blogic >
... on a nice breakout board
12:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130136] <roland> don't understand
12:18
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130142] <roland> quantify
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130143] <roland> ?
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130158] <_7nb> I always hear people saying "a lot of 2.4", but they don't know any numbers in comparison to 2.6/3.0
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130754] <GorDonFreeMan> ;>>>
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130755] <GorDonFreeMan> ok
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130811] <GorDonFreeMan> there are a lot of flying cats around the world
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130818] <_7nb> Heh.
12:19
<
whitequark >
why the hell should all of us read that?
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130830] <GorDonFreeMan> -where ? how many ? - i don't know...
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130840] <_7nb> GorDonFreeMan: There is even a God. Or at least, they claim...
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130855] <_7nb> some even say there are many, but nobody has scientifically observed any.
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130856] <roland> you're been lied, there more than 1 god
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130857] <GorDonFreeMan> ohh i see you mean religion
12:19
<
viric >
I don't want to read that
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130916] <_7nb> Yes, Linux 2.4 is a religion.
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130921] <GorDonFreeMan> cool
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[130946] <_7nb> Linux is communism (others say). Religion does not belong into socialist states. Therefore, you get the picture.
12:19
<
viric >
freenode, kick that out
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[131020] <GorDonFreeMan> glad we figured this out
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[131028] <GorDonFreeMan> next question?
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[131052] <_7nb> What's for lunch?
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[131136] <GorDonFreeMan> I think i'll have fried potatoes with fried cheese slices with a bit mustar you?
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
[131222] <roland> thanx, now I feel hungry :D
12:19
<
whitequark >
GorDonFreeMan: please, spare me from your presence.
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
you said i blog here
12:19
<
GorDonFreeMan >
;>>
12:20
<
viric >
thank you /ignore
12:20
<
blogic >
whitequark: first i thought you meant me
12:20
<
larsc >
viric: yep, just did the same
12:20
<
whitequark >
blogic: ahem
12:20
<
blogic >
then i realized i am the only one to ignore him
12:20
<
blogic >
/help ignore
12:20
<
blogic >
its a feature made by gods
12:20
<
GorDonFreeMan >
ok :)
12:20
<
whitequark >
that works
12:21
<
viric >
I imagined the irc authors realized they needed it just at the first deployment
12:21
GorDonFreeMan [GorDonFreeMan!~lambda@nude.lesbianbath.com] has quit ["leaving god's channel"]
12:21
<
whitequark >
but it's kind of ignoring (pun intended) the original problem
12:21
<
blogic >
on the 2nd
12:21
<
blogic >
on the 1st gordon joined :D
12:21
<
whitequark >
and I'm idealist a bit
12:21
<
whitequark >
and, what is worse
12:21
<
whitequark >
I run a logge
12:21
<
whitequark >
*logger
12:21
<
whitequark >
and all that shit is going to show up there.
12:22
<
viric >
qi-bot, ignore him, when registering the logs :)
12:22
<
whitequark >
wolfspraul: can you please ban the idiot? for the sake of clean logs.
12:22
<
whitequark >
viric: irclog.whitequark.org != qi-bot
12:22
<
whitequark >
that's _whitelogger
12:23
<
whitequark >
and I hope he'll never return.
12:25
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12:41
<
wolfspraul >
we are lucky in having a very civilized and insightful chat and community
12:42
<
wolfspraul >
somehow those people came together
12:42
<
wolfspraul >
so I am very careful about making the "open for anybody" sign any smaller or darker
12:42
<
wolfspraul >
do I think GorDonFreeMan could learn a thing or two? you bet
12:43
<
viric >
well, people ignored use to leave in a short time
12:43
<
wolfspraul >
but banning sounds a little rude to me right now, let's give him more chances to grow
12:43
<
wolfspraul >
sure I understand, but there is very little to gain
12:43
<
wolfspraul >
put him on a personal blacklist?
12:43
<
wolfspraul >
and he is out of your view
12:44
<
wolfspraul >
don't feed the trolls
12:44
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12:44
<
wolfspraul >
so far in 2.5 years, I only kicked out one person once
12:44
<
wolfspraul >
that was a really insane guy on the mailing list
12:44
<
blogic >
wolfspraul: /help ignore ... a feature made by gods
12:44
<
wolfspraul >
but boy, he earned it
12:45
<
wolfspraul >
I do care very much for a friendly attitude though, and I hate to see people treated disrepectfully
12:45
<
wolfspraul >
disrespectfully
12:46
<
wolfspraul >
and God whatever is on a nice path onto my watchlist there, definitely
12:46
<
wolfspraul >
hope that's enough for now
12:46
<
wolfspraul >
yes, /help ignore...
12:46
<
whitequark >
well, maybe.
12:46
<
whitequark >
I don't know.
12:46
<
viric >
what's the kernel to run in the nanonote now?
12:46
<
viric >
rtc issues... all that
12:47
<
viric >
maybe I've to keep with what I have.
12:48
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12:50
<
larsc >
viric: xiangfu wrote a bug report to the person which introduced the rtc bug, but he hasn't responded yet :/
12:51
wolfspraul [wolfspraul!~wolfsprau@p5B0AA50B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #qi-hardware
12:54
GorDonFreeMan [GorDonFreeMan!~lambda@nude.lesbianbath.com] has joined #qi-hardware
12:54
<
GorDonFreeMan >
2012-01-06 12:22 <whitequark> wolfspraul: can you please ban the idiot? for the sake of clean logs.
12:54
<
GorDonFreeMan >
2012-01-06 12:22 <whitequark> viric: irclog.whitequark.org != qi-bot
12:54
<
GorDonFreeMan >
2012-01-06 12:22 <whitequark> that's _whitelogger
12:55
<
GorDonFreeMan >
2012-01-06 12:23 <whitequark> and I hope he'll never return.
12:55
<
GorDonFreeMan >
2012-01-06 12:44 <whitequark> uh
12:55
<
GorDonFreeMan >
2012-01-06 12:46 <whitequark> well, maybe.
12:55
<
GorDonFreeMan >
2012-01-06 12:46 <whitequark> I don't know.
12:56
GorDonFreeMan [GorDonFreeMan!~lambda@nude.lesbianbath.com] has quit ["no comment."]
12:59
<
viric >
larsc: that happened outside of qi?
12:59
<
viric >
larsc: outside the qi branch I mean
13:01
<
viric >
do you have any link about all that?
13:01
<
larsc >
seems to be a regression in the rtc core
13:01
<
viric >
larsc: for all mips?
13:01
<
viric >
I've a mips64 here..
13:02
<
larsc >
for all linux I guess
13:03
<
viric >
but only on mips, no?
13:04
<
larsc >
i can't see a reason why it should be mips specific
13:06
<
viric >
but that's one year ago
13:06
<
larsc >
in the other thread he said he thought it got fixed
13:07
<
viric >
so for 3.x, there is nothing new
13:10
<
viric >
maybe it's not related
13:14
<
viric >
I did not imagine that looking at lkml searching for 'rtc' would bring so much results :)
13:15
<
viric >
ouch, I can't build elfutils for the nanonote
13:15
<
viric >
i386_parse.y:1110:3: error: #error "bogus NMNES value"
13:23
<
viric >
my fault I imagine.
13:56
<
viric >
hm it's harder to cross-build than I imagined
13:58
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14:25
<
wolfspraul >
whitequark: I added osPID to the Qi planet - thanks a lot!
14:30
<
whitequark >
wolfspraul: that's good
14:30
<
whitequark >
we need more oshw!
14:33
<
wolfspraul >
you bet
14:33
<
wolfspraul >
also mechanical, often overlooked
14:33
<
viric >
qi planet...
14:33
<
wolfspraul >
but it is the
*packaging* that makes electronics usable
14:34
<
viric >
I don't know it :)
14:34
<
whitequark >
how came I forgot about that
14:35
<
whitequark >
it is an
_awesome_ 3D printer. much cheaper than alternatives, and it can even upgrade itself
14:37
<
C-Keen >
is it available now?
14:38
<
whitequark >
you could backorder it back when the kickstarter project was pending
14:38
<
whitequark >
they kind of got a lot of orders and are setting up the production now
14:38
<
whitequark >
($830k out of $25k says _something_)
14:39
<
viric >
grr does openwrt have elfutils?
14:39
<
whitequark >
I can't wait to get one.
14:39
<
C-Keen >
whitequark: how does it compare to a pruja mendel?
14:39
<
whitequark >
there is something minimalistic in it that feels exactly right
14:39
<
whitequark >
they've had a comparsion somewhere, let me find it
14:40
<
C-Keen >
the mendel seems to have the more active community it seems, although I am a bit scared by the amount of calibration time needed to get decent prints
14:40
<
blogic >
viric: as a cross or host tool ?
14:41
<
viric >
but by now I fail a bit.
14:41
<
viric >
so maybe openwrt has a receipt
14:41
<
whitequark >
(the notes read: "Prusa" "PB")
14:41
<
blogic >
owrt has no receipt
14:41
<
blogic >
we have makefiles
14:41
<
blogic >
let me look
14:42
<
blogic >
feeds/packages/libs/elfutils/
14:42
<
viric >
I've seen...
14:42
<
blogic >
is not whatever
14:42
<
viric >
it builds only libdw and libelf1
14:42
<
viric >
maybe I should try that. I only want those.
14:43
<
whitequark >
C-Keen: the build area is 5x5x5 in, it has a .5mm tip
14:44
<
blogic >
whitequark: nice
14:44
<
blogic >
the problem is the firmware
14:44
<
blogic >
we used the kubichek FW and imho its insane
14:44
<
blogic >
hunted lots of bugs and last night we setup a machine with emc2 and only use a atmel for the heater
14:45
<
blogic >
first of all the motion planner uses the a axis as input for the acceleration of xyz
14:45
<
blogic >
basically someone took ghbl and patched it to be ready for 3d printing
14:46
<
blogic >
and did so by simply adding A to every piece of code that references xyz
14:46
<
blogic >
and thus totally breaking the setup
14:46
<
blogic >
apart from the fact that GHBL's motionplanner is already code written while on crack
14:46
<
blogic >
nonetheless .... once you get your setup printing its a nice experience
14:47
<
C-Keen >
whitequark: ah interesting
14:48
<
whitequark >
blogic: google does not know anything related to "kubichek firmware"
14:49
<
blogic >
whitequark: let me get the real name
14:49
<
blogic >
its the FW inside makerbot
14:49
<
blogic >
90% of all atmega run 3d printers use it
14:52
<
whitequark >
I slowly start to think that atmegas aren't the best uC for small projects anymore
14:53
<
whitequark >
STM32 are cheaper, much more powerful in processing power and have comparable, often wider, set of peripherals
14:53
<
whitequark >
the main difference is 3.3V
14:53
<
whitequark >
but they're 5V-tolerant
14:53
<
whitequark >
and that's not that hard
14:54
<
blogic >
the thing is that for average joe there is lots of docs around on the web to get started with atmega
14:55
<
whitequark >
oh, do you mean the crappy examples and equivalently crappy half-done arduino libraries?
14:56
<
whitequark >
yes, there exists a lot of that. rather unfortunately, I'd say.
14:56
<
blogic >
i did not mean arduino
14:57
<
whitequark >
arduino is the php of electronics
14:57
<
blogic >
that is a c++ wrapper built on processing which in an ideal world is an abstraction layer above the actual silicon
14:57
<
blogic >
i am talking about the 1 trilion atmega related sites on the web
14:57
<
blogic >
the fact that a programmer takes 4 resistors and that its all documentd
14:57
<
blogic >
most other uC vendors dont have that support
14:58
<
blogic >
and atmel has had this since early 2000
14:58
<
blogic >
when pic still sold the icd for 200€
14:58
<
blogic >
s/pic/microchip/
14:58
<
qi-bot >
blogic meant: "when microchip still sold the icd for 200
14:58
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14:58
<
whitequark >
well you have wiggler
14:58
<
whitequark >
which is basically the same
14:59
<
blogic >
imho atmel is the easiest to get going
14:59
<
blogic >
which imho is also important
14:59
<
blogic >
of course eventually you start thinking about he sense and meaning of patterns and so on
15:00
<
blogic >
but if you have no clue and want to get tsrated you dont care for patterns
15:00
<
whitequark >
well, I tend to agree
15:00
<
blogic >
what i dont like is arm7
15:00
<
whitequark >
after all, it's extremely tolerant, and it has DIP, and that sites, and so on
15:00
<
blogic >
they tned to take a kloc to even come up
15:00
<
whitequark >
STM32 is mostly Cortex-M3, which is thumb
15:00
<
blogic >
they tend to be a pain to get booted
15:00
<
whitequark >
and also peripherals are really like atmel ones
15:00
<
whitequark >
nothing like that.
15:01
<
whitequark >
my boilerplate code to make a blinkie is... I dunno, two lines?
15:01
<
blogic >
i played with nxp lpc arm7 units and they liturally took 500.1000 lines of c before anything worked
15:01
<
blogic >
they improved it then
15:01
<
whitequark >
I even wrote a libc when I got bored
15:01
<
whitequark >
10 lines of asm
15:01
<
blogic >
the lpc2318 was a nightmare
15:01
<
whitequark >
and some struct definitions
15:01
<
whitequark >
that's all
15:02
<
whitequark >
you struggle a bit trying to understand that you actually need to enable clock to GPIO module
15:02
<
whitequark >
but after that, it's actually often easier
15:02
<
whitequark >
32 bit registers allow for a lot
15:02
<
whitequark >
peripherals are much more powerful and often much more sane
15:02
<
whitequark >
no bit-stuffing
15:03
<
blogic >
and faster as the core clock is higher
15:03
<
whitequark >
you've got 128 MiB of address space just for bitbanging
15:03
<
blogic >
does cortex have dma ?
15:03
<
blogic >
ok +1 then
15:03
<
whitequark >
and it has a nested VIC
15:03
<
whitequark >
it's really good, and it is much much better than a conventional ARM IC
15:03
<
whitequark >
on-chip debugging
15:03
<
whitequark >
that has saved me a lot of time
15:03
<
blogic >
using jtag ?
15:03
<
whitequark >
you don't have that with atmel.
15:03
<
whitequark >
SWD works too
15:04
<
blogic >
i hav a bdi3000
15:04
<
whitequark >
I have a STM32 developer board
15:04
<
blogic >
jtag always worked for me with that :D
15:04
<
whitequark >
it's $10, and I got it for free
15:04
<
whitequark >
it has two STM32's on it
15:04
<
whitequark >
one is for experimenting
15:04
<
blogic >
i have seen that unit actually
15:04
<
whitequark >
other one (which is like four times more powerful, which is funny) is the programmer
15:04
<
whitequark >
STM32VLDISCOVERY?
15:04
<
whitequark >
I like it
15:05
<
whitequark >
after you get past the "ohh, that's not DIP" and "what programmer?.." stages
15:05
<
whitequark >
STM32s are juts as easy as atmels
15:05
<
whitequark >
this one
15:05
<
blogic >
and its still solderable by hand
15:06
<
whitequark >
not by a common person, I'd say
15:06
<
whitequark >
and not by a beginner
15:06
<
whitequark >
but yes, it is
15:06
<
blogic >
soldering is a matter of patience and experience really
15:06
<
blogic >
and the right tools
15:06
<
whitequark >
(I have not seen a lot of people who can solder TQFP by hand. I can do up to LQFP, but that has taken quite a bit of practicising)
15:06
<
whitequark >
yes, a good soldering station helps a lot
15:06
<
whitequark >
also, avoiding RoHS solder too
15:06
<
roh >
hm.. btw.. i would wait on the pb thing. its not that liked in the foss 3d printing community
15:07
<
whitequark >
definitely
15:07
<
whitequark >
RMA has worked just fine for me
15:07
<
whitequark >
at least all other things were worse
15:07
<
whitequark >
like: it's accidentally conductive (yick!)
15:07
<
whitequark >
or: does not wash out.
15:07
<
whitequark >
_and_ accidentally conductive
15:07
<
blogic >
i milled a atmega2u2 pcb last night
15:08
<
blogic >
soldered it and lfashed it just now
15:08
<
blogic >
that is the atmega with usb device in it
15:08
<
blogic >
running LUFA on it with the dual serial firmware
15:08
<
roh >
tqfp is my limit too.. can solder it but below that there isnt a real chance.. cant get slimmer tips also
15:08
<
whitequark >
(soldering by hand) also, I think half of arduinos being made now are actually with some kind of
*qf*
15:08
<
blogic >
roh: the trick is to solder and then remove solder for small structures
15:09
<
whitequark >
there's a lot of arduino-like breakouts for STM32, too
15:09
<
viric >
wolfspraul: the atom of the qi planet has 498 posts!
15:09
<
blogic >
does it have usb device built in ?
15:09
<
roh >
blogic: i know... enough flux. doesnt help if you need to add small wires to tap something. then you really need to heat single pads
15:09
<
blogic >
adding a ftdi is always too expensive
15:09
<
whitequark >
blogic: there are stm32s with usb devices
15:09
<
whitequark >
and usb OTG too
15:09
<
blogic >
brb wife fired a nmi
15:10
<
whitequark >
even more, they're actually pin-compatible if they're in the same case
15:10
<
whitequark >
regardless of family/model
15:10
<
whitequark >
great stuff
15:10
<
whitequark >
and hw multiplier
15:10
<
whitequark >
and so on.
15:11
<
whitequark >
32-bit fixed point arithmetics in a couple of cycles per operation. I like that.
15:12
<
wolfspraul >
viric: yes I increased it recently from 60 to 500 :-)
15:12
<
whitequark >
to summarize, I don't see a point of using atmel chips in any of my (new) projects anymore
15:12
<
wolfspraul >
that's because I found browser searching in the debian planet to be so nice
15:12
<
wolfspraul >
and the debian planet has a huge long 1-page listing as well
15:13
<
wolfspraul >
the important idea behind the Qi planet is to look for high quality sources, feeds that post few but good articles
15:13
<
wolfspraul >
and then combine them together into a stream that is still readable, let's say at most 3-5 posts per day
15:13
<
wolfspraul >
better only 2 or so per day, but good ones
15:13
<
wolfspraul >
everything about open hardware and the people behind open hardware
15:13
<
viric >
wolfspraul: 'browser searching'? What is that
15:14
<
wolfspraul >
ctrl-f, as opposed to google
15:14
<
viric >
I just put that into my offrss
15:14
<
viric >
and it took a while to pick the posts :)
15:15
<
viric >
wolfspraul: so, good with in-page search, but a pain for the browser :)
15:15
<
wolfspraul >
let the browser work a little
15:15
<
wolfspraul >
the limit is 500, not 50,000 :-)
15:15
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15:15
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15:16
<
wolfspraul >
if it's too bad, we can go down to 300, but I think it's ok
15:16
<
wolfspraul >
nobody will read that many top-down, it's more for searching
15:16
<
viric >
Well, I meant the 'rss'
15:16
<
wolfspraul >
so people may read a bit at the top, page-down until they find an interesting picture or term that catches their attention
15:16
<
wolfspraul >
or they search with ctrl-f
15:17
<
viric >
a list of post titles wouldn't be enough?
15:17
<
viric >
wolfspraul: I'd like to see a loongson2f with firefox show that web :)
15:18
<
wolfspraul >
what do you mean with post titles? you mean short rss with just the first paragraph or so?
15:19
<
viric >
well, you talked about the web page
15:19
<
viric >
I talked about rss at the beginning
15:19
<
wolfspraul >
I have yet to find someone who would prefer that over the full text download, but if there are (maybe you?), then it's a feature to look for in planetplanet (which is mostly unmaintained unfortunately, I think)
15:19
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viric >
I'm always for full-text download - don't worry :)
15:20
<
viric >
So, I think I talked about rss, while you talked about the amount of posts in the plantet
*webpage*
15:21
<
viric >
I like a lot the contents of the planet, btw. :) Great job
15:23
<
viric >
And what I said about 'wouldn't post titles be enough?', was about.. instead of showing 500 full articles in a single web page in the browser, you could have a place (another web page) where to show only post-titles, for in-browser searching.
15:24
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viric >
Maybe other browsers handle those 500 full text posts in a single web, but firefox 9.0.1 in my computer does not.
15:26
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wolfspraul >
ok understood, thanks!
15:26
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viric >
in any case...
15:26
<
viric >
don't worry about me. I use my own rss reader :)
15:34
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pabs3 >
whitequark: thanks, added to the wiki page
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19:32
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viric >
ok, cross-built setfont2...
19:37
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19:54
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viric >
kyak: I run setfont2 with your cyrilic font, and I get only some horizontal small lines
19:54
<
viric >
kyak: the rest in black
20:01
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20:02
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viric >
that can mean I need a patch? I thought I'd have the kernel patched already
20:08
<
kristianpaul >
!seen Artyom
20:08
<
qi-bot >
kristianpaul, Artyom (~chatzilla@84.23.63.183) was last seen quitting #milkymist 1 week 6 days 23 hours 50 minutes ago (23.12. 20:18) stating "Client Quit" after spending 4 minutes there.
20:11
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viric >
what do I need to load properly a font with setfont2?
20:13
<
viric >
aha, I don't have the patch
20:14
<
viric >
larsc: I can't find the setfont2 patches. neither any 3.x kernel patches.
20:14
<
viric >
not in git://projects.qi-hardware.com/openwrt-xburst.git
20:14
<
viric >
not in openwrt-trunk
20:16
<
viric >
oh found. in 2.6.37
20:16
<
viric >
target/linux/xburst/patches-2.6.37/450-fbcon-color-fonts.patch
20:29
<
kyak >
viric: there is the same patch for 3 series
20:29
<
kyak >
you can find nearby
20:34
<
viric >
I wasn't looking at master!
20:35
<
viric >
patches-3.0
20:35
<
viric >
I'm running 2.6.36
20:35
<
viric >
maybe I should take that of 2.6.37
20:36
<
kyak >
this patch is so small, it shouldn't take long to port even if it doesn't apply
20:40
<
viric >
hm not that small
20:44
<
viric >
and openwrt-xburst.git is huge
21:01
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21:04
<
viric >
to update the kernel.. should I use usbboot, or I can do that writing to something in /dev?
21:04
<
viric >
I'd need the mtdtools or so I imagine, to first erase...
21:18
<
larsc >
you can reflash the kernel using mtd.write
21:20
<
viric >
what is that?
21:20
<
viric >
a mtdtools command?
21:22
<
larsc >
yes. but the name is nandwrite, sory
21:23
<
viric >
I'll try :)
21:24
<
larsc >
Although the title says "updating with an SD" this also works from nand if you only update the kernel
21:32
<
viric >
flash_eraseall is important too
22:20
<
viric >
ok, I built all
22:23
<
viric >
mtdblock0 => uboot, mtdblock1 => kernel
22:24
<
viric >
or I need "mtd"...
22:27
<
viric >
ok written...
22:28
<
viric >
failed to boot.
22:29
<
viric >
flash_erase did not erase all 8 eraseblocks
22:34
<
viric >
usbboot now
22:34
<
viric >
ok. now fails at 'verifying checksum'
22:35
<
larsc >
viric: the command is flash_eraseall not flash_erase
22:35
<
viric >
and now, failed checksum! grr
22:37
<
viric >
looks like the comparision worked
22:39
<
larsc >
viric: i would re-try at least once. usbtool tends to be unreliable sometimes
22:39
<
viric >
hm I retried once
22:39
<
larsc >
alternativly you could boot from mmc card if you have one around
22:40
<
larsc >
on the other hand, what's the size of your kernel image?
22:40
<
viric >
slightly over 2MB
22:40
<
viric >
Data Size: 2126402 Bytes = 2076.56 kB = 2.03 MB
22:40
<
viric >
oh, uboot loads only 2MiB!?
22:41
<
viric >
It says: D read: device 0 offset 0x400000 size 0x200000
22:41
<
larsc >
do you have serial access to your nanonote?
22:41
<
viric >
ouch. Right. 2MiB.
22:41
<
viric >
not really... but I can build another uboot
22:42
<
viric >
it's just about changing the load, isn't it?
22:42
<
larsc >
either that or try to squeeze some bytes from the kernel
22:42
<
viric >
I better load more.
22:42
<
viric >
3.1 or 3.2 will be bigger I imagine
22:43
<
viric >
larsc: I have the uboot output on screen, not on tty :)
22:44
<
viric >
#define CONFIG_BOOTCOMMAND "nand read 0x80600000 0x400000 0x200000;bootm"
22:44
<
larsc >
chaning that should work
22:45
<
viric >
or I write 4? the partition is 4MiB big...
22:46
<
viric >
there we go with 4
22:46
<
larsc >
i think there is even a command which reads the uImage header and extracts the size from it and than loads the remaining bytes
22:46
<
viric >
ah... is it?
22:46
<
viric >
that would be nicer
22:46
<
viric >
I'll go with 0x400000 by now
22:48
<
viric >
Checking 454656 bytes... no check! End at Page: 111
22:49
<
viric >
kernel booting, and... can't find rootfs
22:49
<
viric >
as if it lacked ubi
22:50
<
viric >
larsc: is 2.6.37 with the openwrt-xburst patches supposed to boot?
22:52
<
larsc >
although I haven't tried it in a whole
22:53
<
viric >
something may be failing about ubi
22:54
<
viric >
I hope nothing overwrote blocks...
22:55
<
viric >
wasn't there a nread command for usbboot?
22:56
<
viric >
I can't find the docs...
22:58
<
larsc >
ah, right there is only ndump
22:58
<
viric >
no qiwiki page talks about ndump
22:59
<
viric >
oh, "usboot -c help"
23:00
<
larsc >
there is nread
23:00
<
larsc >
but all it does is prints the contents to the screen
23:00
<
viric >
I just tried it
23:00
<
viric >
reading 2GB that way... may hurt :)
23:01
<
viric >
(I'm building the kernel 2.6.36 I was using, though)
23:08
<
viric >
I put back 2.6.36, and it boots
23:09
<
viric >
so it may be some new kernel option..grrr
23:11
<
viric >
I have the exact ubi options between both
23:18
<
viric >
oh # CONFIG_CRYPTO_ZLIB is not set
23:19
<
viric >
I might be using zlib in my ubifs...
23:23
<
viric >
silly. I've UBIFS_FS_ZLIB enabled, and CRYPTO_ZLIB disabled though. The kernel could have complained.
23:23
<
viric >
unless ubifs comes with its own zlib implementation
23:24
<
viric >
ah there is both deflate and zlib. weird.