<DocScrutinizer>
you are on a constant chase to pick up technology that might get orphaned by Nokia? Aegis seems to qualify for this class (though it's a really extraordinary useless piece of crap): http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_6cbe.html
<wolfspraul>
morning
<wolfspraul>
why should I even click the link if it's not good stuff?
<DocScrutinizer>
maybe to wonder what nonsense FOSS community develops. I'm really amazed to find this age old trusted-computing nonsense getting support from open source community recently, as if all the concerns of experts were moot if only you had the right spirit when developing it. Sounds kinda like Oppenheimer
<wolfspraul>
DocScrutinizer: maybe the community is a bit defocused :-)
<wolfspraul>
if they come here, we have enough real problems for them
<DocScrutinizer>
hehe
<wolfspraul>
trusted computing for me means I trust the source of packages/updates I install
<wolfspraul>
I want a secure link to those servers, I want signed binaries, and most of all I want to trust the organization that is running those servers
<DocScrutinizer>
this can be done by simple means like md5-hashes you compare manually
<wolfspraul>
the entire path of signed bootloader etc. makes no sense to me. it seems to be driven by paranoia.
<DocScrutinizer>
trusted-computing is about industry trusting in the hw keeping you (the user) out from their valuable IP
<wolfspraul>
the movie studios have nightmares that people will steal their valuable Transformers XII
<wolfspraul>
so they try to encrypt the entire path the data takes
<wolfspraul>
what a complete abysmal failure
<wolfspraul>
eventually the 'data' has to reach my eyes and ears
<DocScrutinizer>
indeed
<wolfspraul>
I just setup a camera right in front of the big flatscreen TV, and for 90% of the world population that will produce a wonderfully watchable copy
<DocScrutinizer>
if they could the'd issue a revokable crypo-cert for your brain as well
<wolfspraul>
fine
<wolfspraul>
let them spend their dollars on this :-)
<wolfspraul>
so I also want 'trusted computing', why not. I want to trust the servers that my 'apt-get update' reaches out to.
<wolfspraul>
definitely
<DocScrutinizer>
nah, it's guys like Carsten Munk (mer) who actively paricipate in development of this security framework crap
<DocScrutinizer>
voluntarily
<wolfspraul>
a really trustworthy cloud backup service would also be nice
<wolfspraul>
meaning that what is in the cloud is stored in such a way that it is completely and irretrievably encrypted without a key only I am holding on
<DocScrutinizer>
that's age old PGP aka PKI
<wolfspraul>
not that the cloud provider sniffs my data for whatever reasons, subjects it to legal action, break into their servers, etc.
<DocScrutinizer>
no need for a chain-of-trust with a root cert burned into the rom of your PC
<wolfspraul>
yes of course
<wolfspraul>
we agree
<wolfspraul>
I'm just saying the word 'trusted computing' is cast so carefully it's hard to say no
<DocScrutinizer>
actually what's written at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing#Criticism in first indented paragraph >>[...] software suppliers can make it much harder...<< was not exactly a scenario I had on my radar. But it's one of the most plausible reasns why industry is pushing this crap
<wolfspraul>
nice, some spam in the wiki
<wolfspraul>
cleaning up spam is so rewarding, immediate satisfaction :-)
<wpwrak>
;-))
<wpwrak>
spam indicated that people think their message will be read. sort of a seal of approval :)
<wpwrak>
s/ed/es/
<wolfspraul>
I think nowadays it's mostly either bots, or seo side-effects
<wolfspraul>
like some kid sitting in some office trying all sorts of things
<wolfspraul>
his screaming boss behind him all the time to reach whatever stupid metric the company has to measure 'success'
<wolfspraul>
it's sad, but I guess everything needs to be tried...
<wolfspraul>
without clicking on the link, Werner said nobody would get worked up over such stories...
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
but there comes our first angry fellow
<wolfspraul>
I knew those stories would come...
<wolfspraul>
fossrox_: so what do you think about it? can you elaborate a bit more what you mean with 'is crap'?
<wolfspraul>
what's your action plan?
<fossrox_>
i get worried because of few reasons: 1. patent is an attack on freedom of thought in a world where kids are able to make great designs, 2. if development is driven by entities forcing contributors to resign from copyright (specifically copyleft), such entity can be sold, become danger and cause harm to community since the sold entity would be exclusive copyright holder able to change policies
<wolfspraul>
how do you translate your worries into actions?
<fossrox_>
wolfspraul, my stand is to not use any proprietary work in life, including hardware, software, and culture, and i do what i can to achieve that and help others
<fossrox_>
i started with friends this project: http://robse.org
<wolfspraul>
if you live in a patent infested country, you can try to lobby against patents
<wolfspraul>
if you want to make me happy, you can buy a Ben NanoNote or Milkymist One from me :-)
<fossrox_>
from my perspective as long we are more happy that people buy stuff from us, than we are happy because they easily copy it and build it on their own, we are doing it the wrong way, enjoying scarcity, but that's my perspective
<wolfspraul>
just watch out that one day, the only thing that remains of free software/culture in the world are theories... that's the danger of being too far high up there somewhere...
<wolfspraul>
so make it real
<wolfspraul>
you can also make something and give it away, but the other day I was lectured about 'learned helplessness', so maybe that's also not it
<wolfspraul>
let's stop the world until everybody knows everything. then things should be perfect. :-)
<fossrox_>
let me add to wiki something what might be interesting for you, was working on that last days
<wolfspraul>
saw the video, and I've heard about openfarmtech.org before
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (nobody would get worked up) i didn't say that ;-) my statement was that this wouldn't be perceived as invalidating the objectives of free software.
<wolfspraul>
not my thing
<wolfspraul>
I feel in the end it's very distrustful of other people's work, I think that's the main thing that makes me feel uneasy
<wolfspraul>
why distract everybody and everything?
<wolfspraul>
distrust
<wolfspraul>
don't get it
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: also, the atrocity is in the patent system. mere applications don't change that, though they may serve to drive the point home
<wolfspraul>
but of course it's a nice project. I'll watch the next video in a year or so :-)
<wolfspraul>
but I enjoy my Latte at Starbucks
<wolfspraul>
and I like a modern world and modern stuff, like my new video synthesizer
<wolfspraul>
I want to build trust with more people and companies, not less
<wolfspraul>
sourcemap.org is pretty cool imho
<wolfspraul>
that's my feelings after watching the video...
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/board_app.c (INT0_vect): limit interrupt serials to 0x00-0x7f (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c47f52d
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/Makefile (bindist): new target to upload and describe atusb.bin (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1ad8683
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/board_app.c (INT0_vect): limit interrupt serials to 0x80-0xff (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/7cae01b
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/Makefile (bindist): new target to upload and describe atusb.bin (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/e700b81
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/: added "HardMAC" support (not yet using the TRX's MAC) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c107130