adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.2 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<lewis1711> utop # Frontend.read "3";;
<lewis1711> - : IR.t IR.ast = IR.Atom (IR.RT (IR.I32 3))
<lewis1711> am I writing enterprise ocaml? :(
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<dmbaturin> lewis1711: As long as you don't use factories of factories and don't connect to oracle, it's probably not enterprise enough.
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<louis1711> dmbaturin, this is ocaml. all my constructors be factories
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<lewis1711> I always get stuck into this "overtyping" trap in ocaml with discriminant unions of discriminant unions. "that way the compiler can gaurantee blah blah blah". But having a flatter DU and coding my own runtime checks is much, much clear
<lewis1711> or cleaner
<dmbaturin> In many cases the best thing to use is a record.
<dmbaturin> Well, at least I like them personally. :)
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<lewis1711> dmbaturin, or turn it inside out and use an object
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<dmbaturin> yminsky: Turns out a russian publishing house published a translation of RWO. Do you think it should be included in the book list on ocaml.org? As a note in the original RWO section, or add a section for books in russian and put it there?
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<lewis1711> I am finding ocaml a bit unwield compared to OO languages as my project grows inside. But given that ocaml modules do everything that I use objects for, I may just simply program in a "one module per custom data-type" style.
<lewis1711> *grows in size
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<dmbaturin> lewis1711: It's pretty common to make types abstract, if you want encapsulation.
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<lewis1711> dmbaturin, not really even encapsulation. It's just a mental thing of code making more sense to me when procedures are next to their data for me. Even if those procedures cut across concerns
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<ggole> I'd like to do (module F : FOO with type 'a = ...), is that possible?
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<ggole> Er, (module F : FOO with type 'a t = ...)
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<flux> ggole, I believe it is possible. what isn't possible is: ..with type 'a t = 'a, but other forms of rewrite afaik work..
<ggole> Hmm, doesn't seem to. I get a parse error.
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<ggole> And I (think I) need the first form anyway, so that's a non-starter. Damn.
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<lewis1711> Modules have no polymorphism do they? Like I can't take advantage of the fact that lots of modules have a "to_string" function, to write some "stringify" thing?
<ggole> You can, but it's pretty strange
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<lewis1711> ggole, how so?
<ggole> First class modules allow you to take a module as an argument
<octachron> ggole, yes the "with" constraints are severely limited with packed module https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/blob/trunk/parsing/parser.mly#L2082
<ggole> octachron: OK, thanks
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<ggole> lewis1711: actually, what I had in mind won't quite work as the type will escape... hmm
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<lewis1711> hmm, maybe I should be using objects instead of modules. then I can just give everything a "to_string" method and let structural typing take care of it
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<lewis1711> hmm objects vs modules is actually a hard problem in ocaml. everyone seems to modules but objects have advantages IMO. I can use structural typing, and I don't have to repeat things in the interface
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<lewis1711> actually now that I think about it, what would I be missing out on by not using modules?
<lewis1711> think there's a chapter in RWOC about this
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<lewis1711> oh objects can't include types. hmm
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<lewis1711> I could boil down all my modules to a private internal type though and a public function that constructs some useful object though. hmm
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<ollehar> lewis1711: for to_string functions, I would recommend ppx_derivate
<ollehar> lewis1711: but yes, still no poly :/
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<Leonidas> *ppx_derive
<Leonidas> specifically, ppx_derive_show
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<ollehar> Leonidas: right, sorry :)
<Leonidas> *ppx_deriving, I'm not better at all ;-)
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<ollehar> haha
<dsheets> heehee
<ollehar> also, functors can be used as type-classes, no? if that's what's needed for "stringyfy thingy"
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<zozozo> ollehar: well, from what I understand, it's more the domain of implicits
<ollehar> zozozo: yes, but you can achive similar effect as implicits with a functor that takes a module implementing function to_string : t -> string
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<ollehar> well
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<ollehar> "similar" might be bit of a stretch :)
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<zozozo> you can but you have to manually instantiate the functor for every type you want to use, which is not very practical
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<ggole> For simple things like to_string it's not so bad
<ggole> I pasted an example earlier
<ggole> (Using first class modules, rather than a functor.)
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<Drup> ggole: with type t = ...
<Drup> not 'a t = ...
<Drup> and the type on the rhs must have the same arity
<ggole> Yeah, not useful for what I was doing. Oh well.
<Drup> HKTs ...
<ggole> Pretty much.
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<mackwic> hi there
<nullcat_> hi
<mackwic> Anyone can help about an ld error on osx when trying to compile a package ? I can't compile anything :/
<mackwic> > ld: warning: ignoring file src/core/lwt.a, file was built for archive which is not the architecture being linked (x86_64): src/core/lwt.a
<mackwic> lots and lots of there when trying to produce some .a , then the build fail with unknown symbols (as the .a doesn't exist)
<mackwic> All the files are compiled in x86_64, opam, ocamlfind, and the while ocaml tooling is in x86_64
<mackwic> I really don't see where this comes from
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<mackwic> *lots of these, *whole ocaml tooling
<mackwic> I think an update of XCode broke the compilation, but not sure of that
<mackwic> Maybe I can get away with it by overriding the LD binary and using gcc ?
<mackwic> anyone know where I can find the compile tool names ?
<adrien> as far as I know, recent "gcc" binaries on mac os x are actually clang
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<mackwic> I use homebrew and gcc-4.9 as Gnu tooling :)
<adrien> ah, ok
<adrien> well, you can try: shouldn't take too long
<mackwic> I don't see how to override the linker nor the compiler
<mackwic> lwt use oasis' setup.ml. Hmmm
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<adrien> you'd need to do it when configure ocaml for the build
<mackwic> > ./setup.exe -configure --override ld /usr/local/bin/gcc
<mackwic> > E: Field ld is not defined in schema environment
<mackwic> do you know what would be the name of the config key ?
<adrien> see setup.data
<adrien> but I think it doesn't call the linker directly
<adrien> and ocamlmklib might be involved
<mackwic> hmm
<mackwic> not much in setup.data, mostly ocamlopt, and the like. No reference to ocamlmklib also
<mackwic> which output the .a, ocamlopt or ocamlmklib ?
<adrien> ocamlmklib: it's a wrapper around a few tools
<adrien> and ocamlc/ocamlopt will call the C toolchain tools
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<mackwic> ok, good to know: any setup.ml made with oasis can be override with `ocaml ./setup.ml -build -ocamlopt /path/to/custom/ocamlopt`, same for flags
<mackwic> I will try some things...
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<ggole> Here's a fun problem for you type hackers
<ggole> Given type (_,_) eq = Refl : ('a,'a) eq
<ggole> Implement the signature module EqTag : sig type 'a t val create : unit -> 'a t val equal : 'a t -> 'b t -> ('a, 'b) eq option end
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<Drup> If t is a gadt, that's grossly unsound
<ggole> The type variable won't be generalised
<ggole> So I don't believe it is unsound.
<ggole> In fact the type variable being weak is the entire point of the interface
<ggole> (Also, I have an implementation that type checks without any tricks.)
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<Drup> ggole: I have an implementation with first class modules + extensible types, does that count as tricks ? :D
<rbocquet> module EqTag = struct type 'a t = A : unit t | B : 'a t -> 'a list t; let a = ref A; let create = let c = !a; a := B c; c; let rec equal a b = match a, b with A, A -> Some Refl | B x, B y -> (match equal x y with Some Refl -> Some Refl | None -> None) | _, _ -> None end
<ggole> Drup: a gadt extensible type?
<Drup> yes
<ggole> That's what I did :)
<ggole> By tricks I meant Obj or the equivalent
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<ggole> rbocquet: hmm, doesn't parse?
<Drup> and once it parses, it doesn't compile for me
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<rbocquet> ah, the a needs to be wrapped in a any type
<ggole> Interesting approach though
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<Drup> ggole: you know there is a similar module in Core ?
<ggole> Univ?
<ggole> Or a type equality thing like this?
<Drup> a type equality things like this
<Drup> (which is used for Univ)
<ggole> Oh well, another interesting bit of code successfully NIH'd :)
<Drup> why do you transport the eq in the tag ?
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<ggole> Oh, hmm
<ggole> I didn't realize it would work without, but of course it does
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<Drup> I transport the module directly :p
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<Drup> I wonder if you can do shorter with generative functors
<ggole> Hmm, nice
<ggole> That's probably more efficient, too
<nullcat_> i did something very similar days ago
<ggole> Wait, doesn't type check... are you on 4.02.2 or something?
<nullcat_> of course, after discussion with Jeremy ...
<Drup> ggole: yes
<ggole> Hmm, guess there's been a tweak
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<Drup> ggole: fixed :D
<Drup> nullcat_: I remember pointing you to the module in core :p
<nullcat_> yeah..
<nullcat_> rarely seen tricks..
<nullcat_> tricks for me
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<ggole> nullcat_: that looks pretty familiar
<ggole> I did a hash table in that style a while ago
<nullcat_> you show your code to me, actually
<nullcat_> the gist file
<ggole> Oh, right
<nullcat_> do i need to add your name on it?...
<nullcat_> i never thought about it..
<ggole> Nah
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<Drup> Writing string manipulation codes that works from 3.12 to 4.02 is quite an impressive pain
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<rgrinberg> Drup: why do you support 3.12 O_O
<Drup> I should probably drop it :/
<Drup> but really, 4.00 is equaly an issue
<Drup> (it's for tyxml)
<Drup> There is no real difference between 3.12 and 4.00 from a string functions perspective.
<rgrinberg> Drup: stringext supports older ocaml btw, perhaps it can help
<Drup> rgrinberg: too late, I used bytes :p
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<dmbaturin> Ease of installation through opam probably makes dropping ancient compiler support less of an ethical problem. :)
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<Algebr> Drup: For Js.t, is there like a bind available? I have a Dom_html.mouseEvent Js.t and I want the mouseEvent itself.
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<Algebr> Oh nvm, I guess that's what the ## syntax is for. What does that ## unpack to anyway?
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<linman32> how does one create a multiparam lambda function? online examples only have one param haha
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<rom1504> linman32: you can't.
<linman32> rom1504: pass in pair/tuple?
<rom1504> you can do that, or you can return a function
<linman32> rom1504: thanks
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