adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.2 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<struktured> smondet: what's that about machine learing lib?
<struktured> or flux, rather..
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<lewis1711> isn't there some kind of syntax sugar for adding two Int32s? I can recall there being some construct, I thought it was Int32.(1 + 2) or something
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<adrien> lewis1711:
<adrien> # let two = Int32.of_int 2;;
<adrien> val two : int32 = 2l
<adrien> # Int32.(add one two);;
<adrien> - : int32 = 3l
<adrien> Int32 doesn't define a (+) operator
<adrien> and for 1 and 2, actually
<adrien> # Int32.(add 1l 2l);;
<adrien> - : int32 = 3l
<adrien> ("L" instead of "l" for int64)
<lewis1711> I didn't know it there were literals! awesome
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<flux> struktured, that oml may become one?
<flux> some libraries come with infix operators for Int32, Int64, Float, ..
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<rand000> Does someone have experience with the Lambda-term examples; I guess the radiobuttons and checkbuttons example is supposed to be handled with mouse?
<adrien_znc> space key probably
<rand000> Ahh of course - thought I tried that, it works
<rand000> Thx
<rand000> ... though I can't see which option is marked; but that is probabley dependent on the code
<rand000> marked as in where the 'cursor' is
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<struktured> flux: there will be some ML algorithms but it's not the primary focus of the library. what stuff are you looking for?
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<flux> well, just the basics, ie. regressions, binary decision trees, neural networks and SVDs would be nice. but I'm not really doing any serious machine learning projects :)
<flux> and neural networks would be a better match for some GPGPU-based project, so perhaps they are out of the scope
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<seliopou> Having some trouble with GADT type errors. When you get "The type constructor <x> would escape its scope" in a recursive call, what's that indicating?
<seliopou> Here's a gist with a minimal example: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/e0c3d85d27b37f4a445c
<ggole_> You need to use local types
<seliopou> you mean `(type a)` sorts of things?
<seliopou> or just annotations?
<ggole_> The former
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<seliopou> huh, so I change the `'a` and `'b` to be `type a b. ...` and it goes off without a hitch
<seliopou> what's the explanation for that?
<seliopou> I was trying to find documentation for local types, as you call them, but couldn't find any
<ggole_> Essentially locally abstract types can be different in each clause of a match against GADT types
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<seliopou> ... which is precisely what I need
<seliopou> thanks
<ggole_> What are you trying to do with GADTs?
<ollehar> conquer the world
<ollehar> ?
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<seliopou> ollehar: obvi :P
<seliopou> it's an internal project, an EDSL for cloud infrastructure
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<seliopou> ugh, this is like a horrible game of whack-a-mole
<seliopou> I get base cases right, composition doesn't work. I get composition right, base cases don't work.
<seliopou> these local types are too rigid, can they not unify with eachother?
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<ggole> No.
<ggole> They aren't type variables, really, more like type constructors
<seliopou> this is gonna be tricky
<ggole> Do you have a simple example like last time?
<seliopou> hmmm lemme see if I can reduce it
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<seliopou> nevermind, i think the blame here squarely in my camp here
<seliopou> gonna have to rework a few things and then it'll be clear
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<MooseAndCaml> Is a recursive hash key possible? Something along the lines of: type tk_plur = Key of int | Keys of (int * tk_plur);; type tk_key = int * tk_plur
<MooseAndCaml> Sorry, that should be type tk_plur = Key of (int * int) | Keys of (int * tk_plur)
<theblatte> sure
<theblatte> I mean the type makes sense :)
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<MooseAndCaml> Does it like it will do what Im suggesting? Or is it just well formed?
<MooseAndCaml> I guess the original formulation is the correct one
<ggole> You want to use these values as keys in a hash table?
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<MooseAndCaml> yes i need something where the key can generate elements between indices at any level (5, Keys (2, Keys (7, Key 4)))
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<ggole> Uh, you've lost me.
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<MooseAndCaml> I think is should be: type tk_plur = K of int | Ks of int * tk_plur;; type tk_key = int * tk_plur;; Like Hash.add h (5, Ks (6, Ks (1, K 36))) "blah"
<MooseAndCaml> Will that going to cause issues with the Hash??
<ggole> As long as there are no cycles or functions, you should be fine
<MooseAndCaml> Thats helpful to know. This eases what was looking like a big headache.
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<accidus> Can anyone please help me understand this recursive modules weirdness? See http://pastebin.com/xpHHCTvH , if I comment out the final module (A_TT), it doesn't compile with the usual safe evalution of recursive modules error. I'm running OCaml v. 4.02.1
<ggole> Accidus: you're using A_TT.x cyclically through module recursion
<ggole> If you want that, just use let rec there
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<accidus> Then why does A_TF compile safely?
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<ggole> Hmm, good question.
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<Drup> because the implementation of recursive module is very dodgy and probably contains bugs.
<accidus> Haha. I always doubt myself before compiler implementor... How could I be certain?
<ggole> Seems to fail if B is a functor, but not a module... interesting
<Drup> Accidus: submit a bug report
<ggole> Doesn't need to contain any definitions.
<Drup> I'm not surprised, really
<Drup> self-recursive modules are evil :]
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<accidus> Perhaps, but I'd rather the type-system help me be honest than not use it.
<accidus> And I'm trying to code a nasty piece of maths, and recursive modules helped me quite a bit
<accidus> Though it doesn't include the example where you just have a functor
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<accidus> My point is that the two middle examples seem to be completely orthogonal, yet they aren't, which what surprised me the most.
<ggole> Yeah, pretty dodgy
<ggole> Recursive modules don't seem a well-loved part of the language.
<accidus> I'm not judgemental :P
<Drup> ggole: the typechecker is undecidable, the only sane way to do the runtime init is insane
<Drup> typechecking*
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<Drup> so, hum, yes ? :D
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<accidus> Hrmph. This is quite annoying. I don't suppose you have a suggestion for a workaround 'til the bug is fixed (if it is in fact a bug!)
<ggole> If all the bits are just functions and data structures it should be OK, though
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<ggole> And sometimes that's the cleanest way to structure a program... oh well
<Drup> Accidus: why don't you put everything in a let rec declaration isntead ?
<accidus> You mean turn everything into runtime?
<accidus> And pass dictionaries around?
<Drup> well, right now, you only have a recursive module, nothing more
<Drup> you can remove the recursive module and make all the declarations mutually recursive
<Drup> it's equivalent
<accidus> Well, this is a simplified example. I reduced it from 1k loc :D
<Drup> Ah, obviously :p
<accidus> And I'd rather keep the recursive module implementation if possible :D
<Drup> well, the other solution is to avoid nested functors, since that seems to be the main issue
<accidus> Yeah... I don't see how to really get around that easily.
<accidus> I think.
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<accidus> Jeremy tells me this is the relevant bit of the compiler, btw: https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/blob/e23fa906bd/bytecomp/translmod.ml#L254-L271
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<Maelan> Anyone using Vim here?
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<flux> many, probably (though not me)
<struk|work> I fo
<flux> you bar?
<struk|work> flux: oml has most of what you want already, but no neural nets
<Maelan> :p
<struk|work> * I do
<Maelan> I am under the impression that the OCaml community is more emacs-ish.
<Drup> struk|work, flux: I would find it weird to have neural nets in something called "ocaml *math* library"
<flux> maybe so, but there are many that use vim as well
<flux> struk|work, well, they are not super complicated. maybe it's a nice exercise is Oml is able to express them as succinctly as python.. ;-)
<struk|work> Drup: you just have to gave it a fancy name like "gaussian processes"
<Maelan> As a Vim user, I would like to know better what are the Vim tools available for OCaml.
<struk|work> flux: speaking of which, checking out gpr.. good library. https://github.com/mmottl/gpr
<flux> drup, you could just reinitialize it to OCaml Machine Learning
<Drup> struk|wok, flux: it's missing so many puns on ocaml/ml
<Maelan> I discovered recently that there was a default OCaml plugin provided with Vim.
<flux> yes, Oml is quite a perfect name
<flux> maelan, merlin supports vim as well, and if it works anywhere as nice as it works in Emacs, I highly recommend it
<struk|work> Maelan: merlin is your main go to. I recommend doing opam install user-setup if you haven't alread
<Maelan> Yes, I already use it, mainly for syntax checking
<Maelan> with Syntastic
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<flux> maelan, well, you're missing a lot if yuo don't use the type feedback feature :)
<struk|work> its good for completion and figuring out the type of stuff
<flux> I am so sad that it doesn't work with Eliom. maybe one day.. :)
<Maelan> To be honest, I discovered the key binding for completion by chance, very recently.
<flux> :-)
<Maelan> Using Vim since years now…
<flux> I guess the lives of Vim users and Emacs users have similarities after all..
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<Maelan> Hey, C-X C-O, it looks like an Emacs binding!
<bernardofpc> type tk_plur = K of int | Ks of int * tk_plur;; -> this is "just" a non-empty int list ;-)
<flux> ..though I should add that Emacs has this feature that tells you the last 100 keys or so keys you pressed, it's nice when you do "oh how did I just make happen that" :-)
<flux> bernardofpc, well it's nice to express such invariants in the typesystem ;-)
<Maelan> Speaking about typing feature, although I believe it is very handy, I never got into the habit of using it.
<bernardofpc> sure, but I'd write type my_key = int * (int list)
<Maelan> Probably because there is no key binding for it that I know.
<flux> maelan, maybe you should consider referring to the documentation instead of expecting to find it by chance ;-)
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<Maelan> :TypeOf does not work anymore? I am pretty sure I tested it when I first installed Merlin. Now all I find is :MerlinTypeOf. Is this only a renaming?
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<flux> my guess: yes
<Maelan> flux, I never though of using completion. :-°
<Maelan> *thought
<Drup> flux: it reminds me of ohm :/
<Maelan> Also, I found the binding <LocalLeader>t in the default plugin (by browsing its source code, as I found no other doc on it…) that seems to be equivalent, but apparently it relies on .annot files, which I do not generate.
<Maelan> Is this deprecated?
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<struk|work> Maelan: there should be many Merlin* functions
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<ollehar1> can SSA deal with this?
<ollehar1> if (false) {
<ollehar1> }
<ollehar1> $a = 10
<ollehar1> $b = $a + 10; // Should show error, $a not defined
<ollehar1> or do I need flow-analysis?
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<Drup> what does it has to do with ssa ?
<Drup> you would debunk this kind of code before going into ssa
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<ollehar1> drup, because this is ssa?
<ollehar1> if ($cond) {
<ollehar1> } else {
<ollehar1> $a = 10;
<ollehar1> $a = 20;
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<ollehar1> }
<ollehar1> what's debunk in this context? :)
<flux> from 1 minute in wikipedia I believe it should crash when if 'finds' an instance of the variable to use when referring to $a
<flux> if that 'finding' is simpler than flow analysis, that I don't know :)
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<ollehar1> wikipedia, eh?
<Drup> eh, define "SSA" ?
<Drup> because that doesn't have basic bloc nor phi functions, so that's not ssa for me.
<Drup> (and you can't have undeclared variables in SSA)
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<ollehar1> someone said it could be solved by ssa, but ok. will read up on it.
<Drup> oh, sure, you can solve it
<Drup> proof: C
<ollehar1> C?
<ollehar1> but C has block-scope?
<ollehar1> maybe only C11, don't know.
<ollehar1> PHP has only function scope.
<Drup> yes, but you can declare an non-initialized variable and initialize it conditionally
<Drup> that's the same
<ollehar1> ah, didn't know.
<Drup> int i ; if (b) { i = ... }
<Drup> but it just means that the compiler gives a default value to everything before entering SSA
<ollehar1> ok
<ollehar1> but if SSA need declared variables, then it's not worth considering for type-inferring PHP, right?
<ollehar1> or at all as a tool for PHP.
<Drup> SSA has *nothing* to do with type inference
<ollehar1> ah crap
<Drup> it's an IR for optimisation
<ollehar1> well, I kind of knew that
<ollehar1> IR?
<ollehar1> ah, intermediate representation
<Drup> yes
<Drup> but when you enter SSA, your program needs to be "sufficiently typed"
<ollehar1> ok
<Drup> SSA is strongly typed, but it's "CPU types"
<Maelan> struk|work, from your link I see that :TypeOf actually exists as a synonym for :MerlinTypeOf, and should be mapped to <LocalLeader>t by default.
<Drup> well, no, not CPU types, but rather basic memory representation things
<Maelan> Weird it is not the cas for me.
<Drup> int, float, structs, and that's pretty much it
<Drup> if you want to typecheck, you typechecker much earlier in the pipeline
<Drup> -r
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<ollehar1> ok
<ollehar1> then I will not read up on SSA, but continue with type-inference :)
<ollehar1> thanks
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<Maelan> Well, I found the explanation for both issues. :TypeOf has been removed ( https://github.com/the-lambda-church/merlin/commit/1094f99b3d3cb2c068e89792eb050304dc4cb523 ), but is still present in the doc ( https://github.com/the-lambda-church/merlin/commit/eb3a5a59fd0d21a0480bb1d60b1a99eff62ac523 ).
<Maelan> Maybe I should report an issue or something.
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<Maelan> The keybinding <LocalLeader>t is actually defined, but is superseeded by the one from the default plugin. I am still trying t figure out how to fix this without disabling the latter.
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<struktured> Maelan: the aliases all recently got prefixe with Merlin, some of the doc might be outdated-you cean always submit a PR though
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<def`> +1
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