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<_obad_>
morning
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<dmbaturin>
Hi _obad_!
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<companion_cube>
is there a warning for attributes that are left after ppx?
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<Drup>
no
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<flux>
is it just not done yet or is there some decision behind that?
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<whirm>
If I want to cross-compile an eliom app, what's the way to go? I've googled for a while and haven't found anything. (I already have the crosscompiler)
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<nullcat>
ocaml type system is like system f omega?
<ggole>
I think only prenex polymorphism is supported.
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<octachron>
Does polymorphic record ({ f: 'a. 'a -> 'a }) not go further than prenex polymorphism?
<Drup>
whirm: cross compile ? to what ?
<whirm>
Drup: linux-x86 to linux-arm (I've already have a working ocaml crosscompiler)
<Drup>
do you have the dynlink working ?
<whirm>
I've only tested a couple of simple programs without external libs. (ocaml newbie here)
<Drup>
whirm: I don't know anything about cross compilation, only about eliom :)
<ggole>
It's a bit of a technicality in that you can use such records to do system-fy things
<Drup>
but except the fact there are js_of_ocaml stuff, you shouldn't have issues, as long as it supports dynlink
<Drup>
(you need camlp4, though)
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<whirm>
Drup: I'll read about camlp4 then. I assume I'll have to modify the makefiles to tell eliomopt to use a different ocamlopt & co?
<whirm>
hm, it seems like eliomopt compiles stuff by itself?
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<octachron>
ggole: isn't "let map2 (o:<f:'a. 'a -> 'a>) (a,b) = o#f a, o#f b" rank 2-polymorph?
<ggole>
Depends on whether you consider the type variable part of the type of map2 or not, I guess
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<Drup>
whirm: yes
<whirm>
Drup: so I'll have to build an eliom crosscompiler too?
<Drup>
whirm: eliomopt is just a wrapper around the ocamlopt
<Drup>
you should be able to tell it to use another ocamlopt
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<whirm>
Drup: I couldn't see any option for that in eliomopt --help
<Drup>
whirm: huum, you should take a look at the code, I don't remember how it's done
<whirm>
Drup: ok, I'll have a look when I have some spare time. Thanks!
<def`>
you can encode system f with what octachron said but not higher kinded types of system f omega
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<whirm>
Drup: I see eliombuild does have options to set which compiler to use, do you know where to find documentation about how to use it?
<Drup>
huum, not really :x
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<whirm>
Drup: meh, not easy for newbies this whole thing :)
<Drup>
You are not trying to do something easy
<whirm>
Drup: I know, but I want to make sure everything I need works before developing anything serious with it.
<Drup>
note that you don't really need a cross compiler anyway. You could compile everything on arm
<Drup>
anyway, if you manage to have it running, it will be interesting to have :p
<whirm>
Drup: yes, but that would make the whole development flow really slow (I don't have any powerful ARM board)
<Drup>
I know
<whirm>
Drup: it's a bit weird because there's no mention of this binary on the eliom website AFAICS and the generated Makefile doesn't use it either..
<Drup>
which binnary ?
<Drup>
eliomopt ?
<whirm>
eliombuild
<Drup>
ignore that
<whirm>
the one that has -ocamlopt, -ocamlc, etc.
<Drup>
it's a wrapper around ocamlbuild
<Drup>
that's not going to help you
<whirm>
ah :(
<whirm>
Then I'll have to check the source of eliomopt
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<struktured>
obadz: hard to say, saw a talk on it by Leo White both about 2 months ago at an ocaml meetup, it seems like they are pretty far along development wise
<struktured>
*on both multicore/implicits
<companion_cube>
but they are not production ready
<companion_cube>
and some people in Inria will ask for soundness proofs before they accept implicits
<struktured>
companion_cube: yeah the latter might be the blocker
<obadz>
struktured: which city was the meetup?
<struktured>
obadz: NYC
<obadz>
k
<obadz>
Is ocaml still not forkable from inria?
<flux>
how do you mean not forkable?
<companion_cube>
the license is weird
<flux>
iirc the license only tells that you must be able to separate the original from the patch
<flux>
with git that can be achieved
<obadz>
Yeah it was never clear to me either
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<obadz>
What do you guys think of Rust?
<flux>
it's interesting.
<companion_cube>
+1
<ggole>
Lifetimes are a pain
<obadz>
Do you guys see some shortcomings in Rust?
<companion_cube>
currently, too many things are unstable
<obadz>
Unstable as in API changes or as in stuff crashes?
<Hannibal_Smith>
obadz, if you don't need what Rust can offer to you (better performance, latency, easy to expose a C api to write libraries...) OCaml and in general languages with a GC are easier to use
<companion_cube>
as in, a lot of useful things are flagged unstable
<companion_cube>
I think rust and OCaml would combine nicely
<obadz>
Hannibal_Smith: interesting.. have been trying to wrap my head around the lack of GC in Rust and its implications in everyday coding.
<Hannibal_Smith>
I think obadz that this is the real tradeoff on using Rust
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<Hannibal_Smith>
Stability of libraries, additional language features will come with the time
<Hannibal_Smith>
But the language is what you see today
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<companion_cube>
mostly, yes
<companion_cube>
a lot of (small?) things are missing
<Hannibal_Smith>
You can see here the use of placement new
<companion_cube>
right
<companion_cube>
this code is so ugly...
<companion_cube>
all the __ everywhere...
<Hannibal_Smith>
obadz, it will pass the pointer taken from the allocator, and the language will construtor the requested object with the passed arguments at that specific address
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<Hannibal_Smith>
It's a pretty important feature at least for C++
<Hannibal_Smith>
Rust have yet to settle how it will handle custom allocators
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<companion_cube>
but it will still be an important feature :)
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<Hannibal_Smith>
With the hope that it will be simpler to give and write a custom allocator respect to C++ :-P
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<companion_cube>
rust has the potential to express many allocation pattenrs safely
<companion_cube>
including scoped allocators!
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<_obad_>
sorry to barge in. stupid question. I'm starting to convert some code to Bytes, just wondering if there is a syntax e.g. .[] for it. my guess is there is not.
<_obad_>
manual is not clear.
<Hannibal_Smith>
Regarding Rust and OCaml yesterday on Rust channle
<Hannibal_Smith>
<steveklabnik>jane street is sponsoring RustCamp :)
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<companion_cube>
_obad_: I don't think there is
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<octachron>
_obad_: there is no explicit syntax in 4.02, there should some new syntactic support in 4.03
<obadz>
name thief!
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<obadz>
I'm the real obadz
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<companion_cube>
yes, there will be overridable .{}
<octachron>
(and also overridable .[] in fact)
<companion_cube>
oh ?
<companion_cube>
oh well.
<octachron>
if you need/want the .[] syntax there is some (relatively) ugly workaround that works in previous version
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<_obad_>
octachron: it's not a big deal, I'll just use .get/.set, but if there is already some established thing I would rather have used that
<_obad_>
obadz: you're the real obadZ alright
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<_obad_>
companion_cube: cool! bigarrays are the best thing since sliced bread
<companion_cube>
well in this case, it's about everything but bigarrays :p
<_obad_>
what do you mean? you said overridable .{}
<whirm>
Ok, anybody wants to be the first tester of the arm crosscompiler opam repo? :D
<_obad_>
oh I see. well you could make something generic that specializes to bigarrays if needed with the same syntax
<companion_cube>
no, it's just that .{} becomes a regular operator
<_obad_>
companion_cube: which means that you can write a functor with a matrix algorithm and instantiate it on bigarrays or something else
<_obad_>
with pleasant indexing syntax
<companion_cube>
yes, it's about pleasant syntax
<companion_cube>
or you can add .{} indexing to your favorite hashtable ;)
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<whirm>
Drup: are you still around?
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<Drup>
Hannibal_Smith: Rust's performances are not that good right now
<Drup>
rust has predictability due to non GC, but performances ... not that fabulous
<Hannibal_Smith>
Do you think is a problem of the langauges semantic, or simply because they have yet to provide a good compiler?
<Hannibal_Smith>
*language
<Drup>
the later
<Drup>
(I also find their latest change about Drop very weird)
<Hannibal_Smith>
I had some ICE writing some code
<Hannibal_Smith>
But I accept that state of things, as it will change with (not so much IMHO) time
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<Hannibal_Smith>
Personally I would be more nervous about some language semantic that will force the compiler to do something that maybe is not even possible
<Hannibal_Smith>
But I don't know the language to say something about it
<Drup>
well, they do have questionable semantic/typing choices
<Drup>
(hello turing complete typeclasses)
<MercurialAlchemi>
I think they spent a lot of time nailing the semantics down for 1.0
<MercurialAlchemi>
not that much on performance
<Drup>
I personally think they screw up the Drop semantic in a hurry because of the famous thread safety bug
<Hannibal_Smith>
Uhm...when I think about Drop in Rust I think: you can't pattern matching types that implement it, and the language has to zero memory on drop (I can't remember why)
<Hannibal_Smith>
Both are really unfortunate things
<Hannibal_Smith>
The later I think will be fixed
<Hannibal_Smith>
Uhm...maybe I'm making a mistrake about the first
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<tokenrove>
one of the good things about rust (and ocaml, for that matter) is that there's a serious community around it, which is something that really hurts a language like ats.
<rgrinberg>
tokenrove: and things like cargo end up saving the rust community insane amounts of time
<tokenrove>
yeah, and hopefully getting the standard library right the first time ;-)
<companion_cube>
so much yes
<companion_cube>
since they have had cargo from the start, the stdlib doesn't do that much, but does it well
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<toolslive>
is 4.02.2 supposed to be syntactically backward compatible to 4.02.1 ? (I just encountered a glitch)
<companion_cube>
it breaks ppx stuff
<toolslive>
| Explicit [@name "explicit"] of int32 list
<companion_cube>
yes, exactly
<companion_cube>
it becomes | Explicit of int32 list [@name "explicit"]
<toolslive>
works in 4.02.1 but I need to move the [@ .....] stuff to the end
<toolslive>
yes
<companion_cube>
(yes, this change is undocumented)
<companion_cube>
(pretty annoying)
<toolslive>
yes, I first looked at the changes but couldn't find anything
<toolslive>
should it be reported as a bug (and ifso, where?)
<companion_cube>
I opened one
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<Algebr>
I'm passing ocamlopt a .o of compiled c code, I also want to pass special linking arguments via clang, how can I do this? I tried -ccopt but this isn't recognized, it gives me the help prompt
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