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<solideogloria[m]>
what lisp is that 👀
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<luni>
good morning beach
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<solideogloria[m]>
does anyone know why the p in `typep` in common lisp ?
<charles`>
predicate
<beach>
"predicate"
<solideogloria[m]>
ah got it
<beach>
The Paris transit authority is named RATP and I have a tendency to pronounce it RAT-P, and think of it as a predicate to determine whether some object is a rat.
<beach>
Though I suppose "rat pee" would be interesting as well.
<charles`>
how do normal people say it?
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<beach>
err ahhh the peh
<beach>
err ahh teh peh I mean.
<charles`>
waste of syllables if you ask me.
<beach>
Indeed.
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<beach>
Languages seem to favor oscillations in brevity though. In French "Que est ce" (what is that) became "qu'est-ce" and then "qu'est-ce que c'est" (what is that, that it is) and now "qu'est-ce que c'est que ça" (what is that, that it is, that there)
<beach>
Off topic, so I'll stop now.
<charles`>
Basically macros
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<beach>
Oh, one more. In French, you can say "qu'en faire" (what to do with it), but in one TV commercial a woman said "Qu'est-ce que je dois faire, moi, de ça là maintenant" (what is it that I must do, me, with that there now).
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<contrapunctus>
« The Paris transit authority is named RATP » 😂
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
So, is using LOAD-TIME-VALUE as a cache a good idea?
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
I have a function that makes an HTTP request to one of several slow-changing endpoints, and I'm thinking of using L-T-V to create a hash-table and then storing the result of the http request in the hashtable.
<fiddlerwoaroof>
Aside from infinite memory growth, are there any downsides with this?
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<solideogloria[m]>
is there any libXft library in common lisp ?
<solideogloria[m]>
CLX doesn't have libXft
<solideogloria[m]>
basically is there any way to use fontconfig fonts with CLX
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<solideogloria[m]>
or does CLX have some internal way of managing fonts ?
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<solideogloria[m]>
oh nvm my ignorance
<beach>
solideogloria[m]: You may want to ask these questions to the kind people in #clim who know a lot about stuff like that.
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<phoe>
hmmmm
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<VincentVega>
Hi guys! symbolicate produces a symbol in the current package, but I need another package (e.g. (symbolicate 'alexandria:fact 'orial) gives an error), how can I do that?
<VincentVega>
phoe: oh, wait, i think ensure-symbol is what i need
<VincentVega>
phoe: tnx tho!
<phoe>
ensure-symbol has slightly different semantics
<phoe>
symbolicate concats the symbol name for you; ensure-symbol doesn't
<phoe>
but, yeah, whatever works
<VincentVega>
i just used them like (ensure-symbol (symbolicate ...)), but yep
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<phoe>
uhhhh... that's likely not what you want
<phoe>
SYMBOLICATE might end up interning one symbol, ENSURE-SYMBOL - another one
<phoe>
two symbols in total
<VincentVega>
hmm true
<VincentVega>
guess will go with your code then
<phoe>
a:symbolicate has no means of specifying the package because of its &rest lambda list
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<phoe>
hence you need to explicitly rebind *package*
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<VincentVega>
gotcha
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<uhrenmacher>
Hella people!"
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<phoe>
hey
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<antonv>
in a CL wrapper for a C library, how it's better to name constants corresponding to C constants, upcase or lowcased?
<phoe>
antonv: kebab-case
<antonv>
I mean what is frendlier for a library user
<phoe>
if a C constant is FOO_BAR_BAZ then the corresponding CL constant would be +foo-bar-baz+
<phoe>
which gets upcased by the reader into +FOO-BAR-BAZ+ anyway
<antonv>
not any way, as you know
<phoe>
yes, but I don't really think that |+foo-bar-baz+| is worth it just for the downcased variant
<antonv>
sure
<antonv>
why kebab-case is frendlier?
<jackdaniel>
imo naming it exactly how the constant is named in C world (with the case preserved) is better, because it clearly shows that the variable is foreign (and that's how wrappers should be seen)
<phoe>
antonv: more lispy - but then there's the argument that jackdaniel made
<antonv>
jackdaniel: you mean literaly FOO_BAR_BAZ?
<jackdaniel>
if someone wants to use such wrapper, they may come up with a more transparent interface
<antonv>
in lisp?
<jackdaniel>
antonv: yes, that's how *I* would approach the problem (if it is 1-to-1 mapping)
<antonv>
even no +FOO_BAR_BAZ+ ?
<jackdaniel>
however if you write a library which only uses the ffi lib, then you should use lisp names
<jackdaniel>
yeah; that's my opinion on the matter
<jackdaniel>
s/lisp names/lispy names/
<jackdaniel>
i.e cl-charms (at least in principle) provides two interfaces: low-level and high-level, I think that the former preserves names verbatim from ncurses
<jackdaniel>
but I didn't check right now, so I may be wrong
<jackdaniel>
(that is - constants names)
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<jackdaniel>
as a bonus point: it makes easier to lookup symbols in the librarie's source code
<phoe>
I can say that because this code won't compile on any other readtable case setting
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<antonv>
it does compile
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<antonv>
maybe just exports different symbols than the constants
<phoe>
you're using :invert, right?
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<phoe>
in this case, hmmmmm, I stand corrected - it'll compile, but it'll export different symbols
<antonv>
yes
<phoe>
Which documentation type is used for conditions? TYPE, like for classes?
<phoe>
hm, I guess, yes
<phoe>
it's named a condition *type* after all
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<antonv>
Is that a valid code?
<antonv>
(defconstant +SSL-OP-ALL+ #x80000BFF)
<antonv>
(defconstant +ssl-op-all+ +SSL-OP-ALL+)
<antonv>
<antonv>
in the classic reader mode the constant is defined second time by referring itself
<phoe>
yes, but I wouldn't write anything like that, because, depending on the readtable setting, this defines either one or two constants
<phoe>
if anything, I'd explicitly (defconstant |+SSL-OP-ALL+| ...) and (defconstant |+ssl-op-all+| ...) which is unambiguous case-wise and always defines two distinct constants
<antonv>
I was thinking that for backward compatibility
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<antonv>
ah, in this sense
<antonv>
good point
<antonv>
Slime completion always suggests lower case name, even when orignally in the source code it is upcased, so yes, if I leave them upcased people are more likely to write code that fails in a non-classic reader mode
<antonv>
On the other hand the upcased ones really make it clear that they are C constant conterparts
<fiddlerwoaroof>
How many people use a :preserve or :lower readtable?
<fiddlerwoaroof>
I've always treated that as a "if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces" situation
<fiddlerwoaroof>
If you want to use such a readtable, I'd use something like named-readtables to select a readtable on a file-by-file basis
<phoe>
modern mode is a minefield e.g. when it comes to asdf:test-system
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<phoe>
lots of those systems use (uiop:symbol-call "FOO" "BAR") to implement calls into the respective frameworks
<phoe>
other pieces of code that call INTERN with literal string arguments also break this way.
<phoe>
these could be patched to use (uiop:symbol-call (string '#:foo) (string '#:bar)) but that's both more verbose and very hard to fix everywhere
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<antonv>
Another way is (funcall (read-from-string "foo:bar"))
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<phoe>
yes
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<aeth>
My message that apparently didn't send...
<aeth>
If anyone wants to pad their résumé... Go through every system in Quicklisp and replace all instances of "FOO" with (symbol-name '#:foo) or sometimes #.(symbol-name '#:foo) and now everything will be modern-mode-compatible.
<aeth>
READ-FROM-STRING almost certainly won't be optimized. STRING might be optimized. SYMBOL-NAME on a constant like that should certainly be optimized in my situation, though.
<phoe>
it can't be naïvely optimized to a compile-time operation because package FOO may not exist at compile-time
<phoe>
the compiler would need to special-case such situation
<aeth>
No, but SBCL certainly optimizes (symbol-name '#:foo) because I tested it before replacing all of my #.(symbol-name '#:foo) with (symbol-name '#:foo)
<aeth>
Unless it regressed.
<aeth>
it's a very low hanging fruit
<phoe>
oh, yes - that's all constant
<phoe>
I mean, '#:foo is a literal, and symbol-name is a pure function
<aeth>
If you're concerned about a loss in performance in some really slow implementations (like e.g. CLISP), then you could do #. though
<antonv>
is CLISP slow?
<phoe>
so this can 100% get compile-time-folded into just "FOO" or "foo" - depends on the readtable case when the literal symbol is read
<aeth>
antonv: The slowest.
<aeth>
phoe: right
<aeth>
I might have accidentally left a few old-style string literals, but all of my code should use (symbol-name '#:foo) now, except in the rare cases where #.(symbol-name '#:foo) is required. As of a few years ago iirc.
<aeth>
It's a lot easier to find than you might think because it's only really needed for doing clever things in macros with symbol names.
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<aeth>
Xach: on any benchmarks I've seen (though most are very old at this point)... although, admittedly, I don't think any benchmark has tested every single CL implementation
<Xach>
aeth: i would guess abcl would be slower overall, but that is guess and not measurement
<aeth>
The caveat for CLISP performance would be *except with bignums.
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<Xach>
user-written code in clisp is a lot slower than using built-in functions or modules written in C