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<markasoftware>
Is there a library for manipulating and accessing nested lists/trees? i.e, given an element of the tree, find its siblings
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<markasoftware>
cl-containers seems to have trees but it seems to not use lists to implement it
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<beach>
jmercouris: Well, a reader should always be implemented in Common Lisp, so that is not the main point of Eclector. Instead, the main point is that it is highly configurable, and that it can produce output with information about source location. For example, it can be used in a text editor to read the contents of a buffer of Common Lisp code, without interning the symbols as a reader would normally do.
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<ldb>
good evening
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<phoe>
hello
<ldb>
hello phoe.
<ldb>
it's the first time i know that it is `memoization', not memorization
<ldb>
and since the word was coin in 1986 you cannot find it in most dictionaries
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<rogersm>
ldb: I would say the word is much older than 86
<ldb>
it's from the word `memo', `memoize'
<beach>
ldb: I have had colleagues in theoretical computer science "correct" my papers.
<heisig>
(The powers of two look like you actually want to manipulate word bits).
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<lukego>
_death: yeah but this is for a compact encoding of a chess board kind of data structure, currently a 2d array of nine-bit numbers, where each bit represents a feature of that tile. Just indulging in some overthinking partly to familiarize myself with the modern CL ecosystem e.g. serapeum.
<lukego>
it's fun trying new idioms to see how they fit e.g. (nest (dotimes (x width)) (dotimes (y height)) (foo x y)) is quite a novel style to me
<_death>
lukego: I see
<_death>
lukego: for that kind of thing, usually I just use plain defconstant.. possibly with hex notation
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<_death>
this also comes up when you interface with foreign code.. then cffi:defcenum (with :allow-undeclared-values) is useful.. I guess it could also work for lisp code
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<_death>
but for a data structure, I would choose defconstant
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<flip214>
when I have a (DEFTYPE corners (w h) `(simple-array (integer 0 5) (,h ,w))), can I use that as a slot type in a structure when the dimensions are given by other slots?
<phoe>
flip214: dimensions are given by other slots? don't think so
<phoe>
if you use that in a struct, it will likely be upgraded into a T anyway
<phoe>
like, a reference to an array allocated elsewhere
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<phoe>
otherwise the implementation would need to have variable-size structures of the same type, which I don't think is possible in current Lisp implementations
<phoe>
but I may be wrong, ask your favorite implementers
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<flip214>
phoe: thanks
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<flip214>
can I get the number of characters printed to an output stream since the last newline? Like the difference between ~% and ~&?
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<phoe>
flip214: don't know if that's achievable with plain FORMAT
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<flip214>
phoe: no, I'm looking for a stream-accessor
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<phoe>
flip214: might be hard without a Gray stream
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<lukego>
I'm in the honeymoon period with the NEST macro :)
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<Alfr>
Hi. Is there some immutable (di)graph implementation available out there? Otherwise I'm inclined to to write one based on cl-hamt for the heavy lifting.
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<beach>
Alfr: Graphs are problematic because the representation depends a lot on the kind of algorithms you would like to apply to it. That is why there are not very many libraries like that, and if you find one, it is unlikely to fit your needs.
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<beach>
Alfr: I often draw the parallel with sets. You will not find an implementation of sets that will fit all the needs people have. That's why we have stacks, queues, editable sequences, concatenable queues, union-find sets, etc.
<beach>
Alfr: For example, some applications need for a vertex to be part of more than one graph simultaneously. That requirement excludes any way of attaching the arcs to the vertex.
<Alfr>
beach, for the last part, can you read my mind? xD
<beach>
Heh!
<beach>
Some applications need to attach information to arcs, so then having a list of adjacent vertices in each vertex is excluded. Etc, etc, etc.
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<Alfr>
beach, guess I'll just go write it soonish and will probably make it available, should it proves its worth for my little project.
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<mfiano>
There are a variety of persistent/immutable data structures available for CL already, but I do not know of any directed graphs (apart from some tree implementations).
<beach>
Alfr: Good plan.
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<mfiano>
https://github.com/ndantam/sycamore comes to mind. May be a good start, or a place to send a PR rather than making it more difficult to find as a new library.
<beach>
mfiano: And one would have to have a description that includes the algorithms that can be efficiently supported, just as with my example with sets.
<Alfr>
beach, and thank you for the quick response.
<beach>
Sure.
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<beach>
mfiano: A change like the one that Alfr seems to need, i.e., making it possible for a vertex to be in more than one graph simultaneously, is not going to be easy to accomplish with a PR. I am betting it involves a complete redesign of the data structure.
<beach>
Another way of putting it is that a digraph is not an abstract data type, because there is not a widely agreed-upon set of operations for such a thing.
<mfiano>
It does, and a HAMT is a way to do that.
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<beach>
Great!
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<Harag>
is there a difference in the behaviour of :use in in-package and defpackage?
<Harag>
the main code file did not have the :use and that compiles fine
<Harag>
and package works as advertized... really mind blowing
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<_death>
Harag: XP, with some changes, became part of Common Lisp
<Fare>
XP ?
<_death>
Waters's pretty printer
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<Fare>
oh
<jackdaniel>
when I see XP I read either "windows xp" or "extereme programming" (the one with plenty of tests before writing the actual software)
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<aeth>
I'm not sure about Windows XP, but software with plenty of tests hasn't become part of Common Lisp yet ;-)
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<Alfr>
On tests, what's a nice CL test framework anyway? Looking for something that would let me group tests and skip tests/groups of tests when some other test fails; not really interested in tests failing because I just broke some dependency.
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<Harag>
Alfr: I found this old paper (1991) tonight on the subject of test framework for cl if that kind of thing floats your boat I can post the link
<Alfr>
Harag, I surely like to read it, but I'm not in such dire need to write one up. Just wondered if s.o. here knows one that'd satisfy the above, so that I could migrate away from my personal hackish setup.
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<Alfr>
Harag, and thanks for the link.
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<jackdaniel>
Alfr: fiveam tests have :depends-on clause
<jackdaniel>
I'm not sure about whole suites
<Harag>
the ftp server from that paper still exists but I cant find the code on there any more
<fe[nl]ix>
in my experience tracking this kind of dependency between tests is not worth it
<Alfr>
fe[nl]ix, for most of the cases dependencies really don't help, but sometimes it helps identifying the real culprit by omitting the noise.
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<Alfr>
Harag, at first glance they really describe RT and give some description of its design, that's more documentation than I've ever expected to see for any CL package. :D
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<Harag>
Alfr: if you think that is a lot of documentation then have a look at this for the same author's pretty printer, I am working on bringing it back to life at this very moment
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<Harag>
what is the that shows up in some source code like sbcl, is it supose to be some line break?
<TwoNotes>
Can anyone point me to an example of how to pass a POINTER to an INT to a FOREIGN function? I am using the CFFI library on SBCL. I know about 'with-foreign-object' to create the INT, but not the creation of the pointer TO it.
<luis>
TwoNotes: what's the type definition of the foreign function?
<TwoNotes>
Haraq, 000C would be a form-feed.
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<TwoNotes>
luis, in C it says "int *foo"
<luis>
TwoNotes: with-foreign-object will give a pointer to a newly allocated int, so that's all you need.
<TwoNotes>
And I would declare it as :POINTER :INT" in the defcfun?
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<Harag>
kewl thanx that is interesting
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<Harag>
some how that reminded me of writing a cobol program on a bunch of special sheets and giving them to the terminal operator to capture... then waiting around a couple of hours to get the results back
<TwoNotes>
Those were the days. Faster to punch them yourself. Especially if you knew how to prepare the tab-drum control card.
<TwoNotes>
My first exposure to LISP was back in those days, reading McCarthy's "Lisp 1.5" book.
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<Harag>
I wish I was exposed to lisp then, I only found lisp much later in life
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<seok>
what is #\ZERO_WIDTH_NO-BREAK_SPACE character?
<seok>
It doesn't get trimmed with str:trim
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<aeth>
My first guess would've been because of how common that is in HTML (to prevent a break) but that's not zero-width and is #xA0 while (format t "#x~X~%" (char-code #\ZERO_WIDTH_NO-BREAK_SPACE)) in SBCL is #xFEFF
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<aeth>
And in SBCL (sb-unicode:whitespace-p #\ZERO_WIDTH_NO-BREAK_SPACE) => NIL so even if that library was Unicode aware it wouldn't be detected as whitespace.
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<markasoftware>
why would I want to do (&rest (a &optional b)) instead of (a &optional b) ?
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<Harag>
... you know that sick feeling a couple of hours into something that you have bitten of to much to to chew but you are to stuborn to give up...
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<Harag>
any format guru's in the house... the following goes into what looks like an endless loop, is it supose to (format t "~{~a~3@*~^,~a~^,~}." (QUOTE (1 2 3 4 5 6)))
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<_death>
~3@* means to go to the fourth element
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<_death>
it is not relative to the current position in the list, just to the list itself.. so 1,4,5,4,5,...
<Harag>
_death: so is the short answer that you would expect that format to go on endlessly?
<Harag>
I am not even close to understanding either
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<Harag>
I just need to know if it is possible to get the format into a endless or near endless loop.
<Harag>
I am trying to revive XP pretty printer and there are about 600 tests, its gonna take me a life time to understand them all, I am just trying to get them to fail a bit more grace fully if the test is expecting the impossible
<_death>
yes, it's possible.. it's a goto.. I'm not sure why you're trying to revive XP, as I already said it became part of CL
<Harag>
its to use it out side of normal cl
<_death>
what do you mean?
<_death>
I suppose it could be useful to change to code so that the interface will resemble the standard interface, and make a portable pretty printer
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<Harag>
it exposes some inner workings that the implementations do not give access to override/change
<Harag>
and beach would love a portable pretty printer as well I am sure
<_death>
right
<Harag>
for example if I want to change how a struct is printed readably I cant
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<Harag>
in normal cl
<_death>
you can..
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<Harag>
by overriding print-object?
<_death>
well, defstruct has a :print-function option.. or if you want to use the pretty printer, there's set-pprint-dispatch
<Harag>
yeah found out about set-print-dispatch from the XP code
<Harag>
does hashtable and the likes also have such a :print-function?
<_death>
set-pprint-dispatch accepts a type specifier, so you can dispatch on hash-table.. or even a particular hash-table using `(eql ,the-hash-table)
<Harag>
ok kewl
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<Harag>
so is there a doc/paper for "the standard interface" or is it where ever it ended up in the spec?