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<Oladon>
vegai: Yeah, Quicklisp supports the concept
<z3t0>
Does anyone here hack around with lisp on any mobile devices?
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<Oladon>
I used to use it on a Zaurus, does that count? Oh, and a Palm Pilot.
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<z3t0>
that's cool! especially the palm pilot actually
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<z3t0>
Did the pilot have apis for drawing? Or how did you handle that?
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<Oladon>
Drawing? You just typed your code...
<Oladon>
Don't tell the channel, but I believe it was a Scheme variant. ;)
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<ldb>
good morning everyone
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<z3t0>
Oladon: Oh. I noticed it had a pen/stylus? I thought it would support drawing lines and what
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<Oladon>
Oh, maybe. Don't recall doing any drawing in Lisp specifically, but it had a pretty spiffy handwriting recognition system
<Oladon>
ldb: Morning!
<z3t0>
thats neat! I'm trying to do a survey of gui tooklits. What I'd like to write is an application that runs on linux and has support for touch paradigms. I also plan to hack together a handwriting component. So far I'm looking into ltk - wondering if it's easy to write custom components there.
<z3t0>
I want to avoid qt for now since its a much larger dependency and I don't plan to use much of what it offers
<z3t0>
ldb: morning :D
<Oladon>
Haven't used LTK, sorry :)
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<ldb>
is there any linux distro already having touch screen support?
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<ldb>
other than Andriod, if that is considered as a linux distro
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<akoana>
well gnome3 (available on many distros) should support touch screen well
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<ldb>
akoana: thank you
<akoana>
same for KDE Plasma (so Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu ... all the "main" distros)
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<Oladon>
beach: Morning!
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<flip214>
When I use (MERGE-PATHNAMES *dir* "some/filename.ext"), can I specify *DIR* in a way that the "filename.ext" is removed from the result?
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<scymtym>
does (merge-pathnames *dir* (make-pathname :directory (pathname-directory "some/filename.ext"))) work?
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<flip214>
scymtym: yeah, but I hoped for some change in the config only (modifying *dir*)... ;)
<flip214>
thanks!
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<scymtym>
you could surround the result with (make-pathname :name nil :type nil :version nil :defaults RESULT)
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<Posterdati>
hi
<Posterdati>
seems that even ecl does not work with gsll on OpenBSD :(
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<eta>
phoe, oh crap you're writing a book?
* eta
just saw that on HN
<eta>
yay more lisp content!
<phoe>
eta: well, I did write one
<eta>
:o
<eta>
which
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<beach>
He means that it is done.
<phoe>
^
<eta>
oh I see
* eta
nod
<phoe>
it's done, written, in typesetting now
<eta>
makes sense
<eta>
well, I mean, the last lisp books I read were land of lisp and the weitz one
<eta>
so it'll be nice to read something new!
<shka_>
phoe: have written
<phoe>
shka_: thanks
<shka_>
you are welcome
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<jmercouris>
hello everyone
<beach>
Hello jmercouris.
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<jmercouris>
:-)
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<phoe>
heyyyyy
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<theosvoitha>
Hello Is it worth to learn Emacs Lisp?
<phoe>
theosvoitha: well
<phoe>
you landed in a place full of Common Lisp programmers
<phoe>
so we can certainly tell you that it is worth to learn Common Lisp
<phoe>
but #emacs might be a better place for your original question
<theosvoitha>
okay thanks phoe.
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<theosvoitha>
They clearly asked me to learn other lisps (Other than emacs lisp_
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<beach>
They?
<theosvoitha>
#emacs
<beach>
Ah.
<phoe>
well then! you landed in a right place
<beach>
Then Common Lisp is a good choice.
<theosvoitha>
ha ha. so guide me.
<theosvoitha>
i mean what can i do..
<jackdaniel>
minion: tell theosvoitha about pcl
<minion>
theosvoitha: please see pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
<jackdaniel>
minion: tell theosvoitha about paip
<minion>
theosvoitha: paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming. More about Common Lisp than Artificial Intelligence. Now freely available at https://github.com/norvig/paip-lisp
<jackdaniel>
minion: tell theosvoitha about portacle
<minion>
theosvoitha: portacle: Portacle is a complete IDE for Common Lisp that you can take with you on a USB stick https://shinmera.github.io/portacle/
<jackdaniel>
minion: thank you
<minion>
you're welcome
<jackdaniel>
feel guided
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* jackdaniel
makes some weird movements with his hand
<theosvoitha>
thanks jackdaniel minion.
<beach>
theosvoitha: For newbie questions, there is help in #clschool too.
<theosvoitha>
thanks beach
<beach>
Sure.
<theosvoitha>
I guess now i need to find some replacement for GNU emacs.
<jackdaniel>
most people who work with open source common lisp implementations use gnu emacs
<jackdaniel>
see portacle
<jackdaniel>
which is emacs with batties included
<jackdaniel>
batteries
<theosvoitha>
Portacle is a complete IDE for Common Lisp
<beach>
Sort of. It is a collection of components.
<beach>
Emacs is one component.
<beach>
SBCL is the Common Lisp implementation component.
<beach>
SLIME is another component.
<theosvoitha>
downloading
<theosvoitha>
If you guys do not mind, can you suggest me some GNU Emacs alternative now.
<phoe>
emacs
<beach>
Why do you want an alternative?
<phoe>
it takes a while to get used to, but slime/sly are the best choices for developing lisp stuff.
<phoe>
there also exists SLIMA for Atom - it seems to be getting somewhat good
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<phoe>
and also slimv/vlime for VIM
<theosvoitha>
Because i was told at #emacs that you need to learn Emacs lisp to use it properly. But they also say that better learn other Lisps
<beach>
NOOOOO
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<theosvoitha>
oops
<beach>
theosvoitha: When you use GNU Emacs with Common Lisp, you don't need to know anything about Emacs Lisp.
<beach>
Or very little.
<phoe>
^
* jasom
never learned emacs lisp
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<bitmapper>
and by the time you learn common lisp you'll know most of emacs lisp anyway
<phoe>
there exist emacs distributions like spacemacs that bundle a lot of software, including slime/sly - you can use those to avoid writing your own emacs configuration files
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<bitmapper>
because emacs lisp ⊆ common lisp
<jasom>
I guess I learned enough to be able to put things like (enable-foo) in my init.el but that's mostly treating it like a configuration format, not a programming language
<bitmapper>
in a sense
<theosvoitha>
bitmapper: beach This cleared the stuff.
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<theosvoitha>
I tried spacemacs for Windows but it needs some workaround.
<_death>
actually elisp is a much larger language than CL
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<theosvoitha>
thanks to all you guys for all openness and help!!
<_death>
xristos: you need to learn about buffers, windows, etc.
<xristos>
but these concepts are really Emacs models, not Emacs Lisp
<xristos>
you could throw CLIM in with the CL spec and get a similar inflation
<phoe>
but they're an official™ part of elisp
<xristos>
the core language is much much smaller than CL
<phoe>
*this* is the core language
<xristos>
it really isn't
<phoe>
of course that one can carve out a subset that doesn't deal with buffers or windows or all the emacsisms stuffed in there
<_death>
if CLIM were part of the Common Lisp specification... anyway, I know what you mean, and now you know what I meant..
<phoe>
but puritans will then start whining that it isn't elisp anymore, and if you know just that tiny subset then you don't really know lisp.
<phoe>
s/know lisp/know elisp/
<xristos>
can you separate the Emacs models from Emacs Lisp and still have a coherent, useful language?
<xristos>
for me the answer is yes
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<phoe>
is that language still elisp?
<xristos>
if the answer was no, i'd agree with both of you
<phoe>
that's the troublesome question
<xristos>
phoe: Guile thinks so
<_death>
elisp doesn't have a standard, and so the language grows (or shrinks) with almost every change of the manual
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<phoe>
Guile thinks so to the point where its "elisp" still cannot be used to run most of emacs code though
<phoe>
but then again, we're diving into nomenclature here
<phoe>
and what really can be named "elisp"
<phoe>
I don't think it's fruitful to continue this particular discussion :D
<theosvoitha>
Is there any Lisp IRC Client I can use and learn to hack?
<jackdaniel>
beirc, but it has quite a few issues
<phoe>
birch, trivial-irc
<xristos>
theosvoitha: rcirc in Emacs
<jackdaniel>
there is also a library to sue irc from repl
<theosvoitha>
xristos: I will try that
<beach>
xristos: I think we agreed that theosvoitha wanted something other than Emacs Lisp.
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<xristos>
if you did, i missed it
<jackdaniel>
real lisp programmers have a hardware keyboards with two keys: #\( and #\), you program in binary code for your processor, but having parenthesis instead of 0 and 1 is a nice touch ;)
<theosvoitha>
okay thanks a lot all guys. it was really a warm welcome here. I will keep idling here. I guess i asked too simple questions. next time i will ask in #clschool
<phoe>
theosvoitha: that isn't simple
<phoe>
I hoped that Portacle worked well on Windows
<phoe>
and still Windows finds its way to raise weird exceptions that I never would expect
<theosvoitha>
phoe: is there any way to use it elsewhere
<phoe>
theosvoitha: I'm about to suggest installing linux
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<theosvoitha>
i have some job software which i can't run in windows
<theosvoitha>
*can't run in linux
<_death>
theosvoitha: it looks like emacs and sbcl work.. you just get an error for some reason which is yet to be determined
<theosvoitha>
_death: do i really need to bother about this error. can't i go further and learn at least the basics and use emacs
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<theosvoitha>
afterall i can't go deep very soon
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<_death>
theosvoitha: well, you can just run sbcl and use that.. and you can run it from a shell within emacs.. but to get a good experience you need slime (which connects the two and provides the typical development environment) to work
<theosvoitha>
_death: okay let me learn whatever i have. who knows it may get fixed in future.
<_death>
theosvoitha: if you follow my previous instruction (type :backtrace and paste the result) you may get further help there
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<_death>
theosvoitha: if you just want to play with emacs lisp, you can also type M-x ielm RET (that's alt x, ielm, enter) to get an elisp toplevel
<theosvoitha>
_death: I guess i will attempt tomorrow. its too late here. i have saved all instructions.
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<_death>
theosvoitha: also you may ask on #shirakumo (where the author of Portacle dwells) about it or post a Portacle issue.. though the answer may be the same (give a backtrace)
<phoe>
first get a backtrace
<phoe>
and then post an issue on the github repo
<phoe>
stuff the backtrace in there.
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<theosvoitha>
I will try a backtrace tomorrow and will share backtrace.
<theosvoitha>
Better not attempt at #shirakumo
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<theosvoitha>
thanks everyone for this warm welcome. thanks phoe _death beach and all.
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<puchacz>
hi, has anybody used foil to communicate with Java?
<puchacz>
2005 not good, author: Rich Hickey: good.
<puchacz>
I wonder if it is usable in long running servers, i.e. no memory leaks, knows when to drop objects from caches etc.
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<phoe>
okay, I think the HN discussion about the book is now done; the article fell off the frontpage
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<XachX>
phoe: cheers for a readable thread despite predicable “objections”
<puchacz>
xristos: but I don't want to have the whole application in ABCL
<puchacz>
I have the application in SBCL
<puchacz>
or you mean just have small stub with ABCL and say hunchentoot on Java side?
<_death>
some months ago I played an hour or two with py4j, writing some lisp to play the part of py.. that approach didn't seem too time-consuming, though I had no use for it
<puchacz>
death: googling py4j, related to my Java question?
<_death>
puchacz: yes.. it allows limited interoperation.. I think I played with it because spark used it
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<puchacz>
I know how to access java from ABCL and I did a lot of it
<puchacz>
so writing hunchentoot handler in ABCL on Java side to allow SBCL application to call into would work.
<puchacz>
thanks, so I would have to run Java part of py4j.
<puchacz>
ok :)
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<_death>
feel free to create a complete library out of that hack ;)
<puchacz>
cheers :)
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<puchacz>
death, if you are still here, Foil looks usable - if you ever need it
<puchacz>
I have not started it yet, just staring at Java code
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<dra>
Hi. I'm using Emacs + SLIME + Paredit. When editing Lisp files DEL/<backspace> is bound to paredit-backward-delete. In the REPL however it's bound to backward-delete-char-untabify. This breaks paren balancing. Here's the relevant part of my SLIME config: https://paste.debian.net/1156557/
<dra>
Any ideas?
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<phoe>
XachX: I know right
<phoe>
I actually found the objections to be surprisingly pleasant
<puchacz>
phoe: your book is still not available, is it?
<puchacz>
as ebook
<phoe>
I got several bugfix ideas for the book and - Apress will kill me - an idea for a new chapter
<phoe>
puchacz: yes, it only went to production now.
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<puchacz>
ok, tks
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<dra>
phoe: I read about your book on Hacker News. Looking forward to it!
<phoe>
dra: <3
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