<no-defun-allowed>
"all in C" shouldn't be something to be proud of, in my opinion.
<bitmapper>
no-defun-allowed: jeez, calm down
<bitmapper>
i'm just surprised i haven't seen this before
<no-defun-allowed>
I'm not disturbed by that. It is just not a good use of one's time to write a Common Lisp implementation (and they don't appear to claim Common Lisp compatibility, FWIW) in C.
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<bitmapper>
considering all the tests have an ANSI COMMON LISP at the top of them
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<no-defun-allowed>
(Well, ECL is certainly quite impressive, but there is a lot of Lisp code in that as well.f)
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<no-defun-allowed>
Sure. I would expect a statement like "npt is an implementation of ANSI Common Lisp" if that is what it should be, though.
<beach>
&REST means that, in addition to the required arguments FUNCTION and LIST, it can also take an arbitrary number of additional arguments.
<srji>
it means it is possible to have a lambda function as argument for mapcar?
<beach>
These additional arguments end up in the list MORE-LISTS. And as the name suggests, those additional arguments should be more lists.
<phoe>
it's always possible to have an anonymous function as an argument to mapcar
<beach>
There is no such thing as a "lambda function". The LAMBDA operator creates an anonymous function that can be used where any other function can be used.
<phoe>
a function is a function
<phoe>
(mapcar (lambda (x) (+ x 10)) '(1 2 3 4 5)) is a thing
<srji>
seems logic
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<beach>
So an example of more lists would be (mapcar #'+ '(1 2 3) (4 5 6))
<beach>
Er, so an example of more lists would be (mapcar #'+ '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6))
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<srji>
ty
<beach>
yaw
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<kinope>
Hmm, how would I get the output from macroexpand-1 to be nicely formatted, w/ indentation and such. I've looked at setting *print-pretty* and *print-readably* to t, but that didn't seem to help.
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<beach>
It should happen automatically if you do it in the REPL.
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<Bike>
print-pretty T should do it. do you still get the output on one line like that?
<Bike>
print-readably you probably don't want
<Bike>
that's "readably" as in by the computer, not by you
<kinope>
Well it's not all on one line, just is missing line-breaks where you'd expect them to be, after function arguments for instance.
<kinope>
It's definitely doing some formatting, just not what I'd expect.
<kinope>
previous message should read 'after function arguments(lambda list?) in a defun'
<Bike>
there are some ways to adjust the formatting, but what you're seeing is probably what the implementation considers good formatting
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<Bike>
though i can't see it myself of course
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<kinope>
Yes I think you may be right, it's not a big issue, just thought I'd ask anyway.
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<Josh_2>
Afternoon
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<beach>
Hello Josh_2.
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<Josh_2>
How do I use a ps macro within a ps body? (parenscript)
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<TwoNotes>
Going crazy trying to find the right syntax to pass a c-struct by reference to a CFFI alien function (SBCL)
<TwoNotes>
That is, how to describe it to define-alien-routine.
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<Josh_2>
TwoNotes: that concept is alien to me ;)
<TwoNotes>
Yeah, but I think it is easier to interface to existing libfoo routines that try to recreate them in Lisp
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<TwoNotes>
Stuff like libv4l2convert. Compute-intensive
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<Josh_2>
Yep, you making bindings for v4l?
<Josh_2>
because thats kewl
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<TwoNotes>
I found bindings for the basic V4L2 stuff. CL-V4L2. It is specifically the format conversion linrary I need.
<TwoNotes>
But later on I will also need libogg, libopus, libtheora, etc
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<TwoNotes>
As is usual with CL projects, I am working on something else entirely but end up spending all my time on infrastructure and these CFFI things
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<Xach>
I wish I could suggest a project that might have similar code to use as an example.
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<TwoNotes>
None of the example in the CFFI doc actually do this.
<TwoNotes>
Plenty of examples of "how do I pass a struct by value to a C routine"
<Xach>
Oh, I thought that's what you meant. What's a CFFI alien function compared to that?
<TwoNotes>
I am trying to pass a POINTER to something defined by defcstruct
<Xach>
TwoNotes: The manual says "To pass or return the pointer, you can use either :pointer or (:pointer (:struct structure-name))." That's not what you want?
<TwoNotes>
I think so
<Xach>
Actually, I should avoid further guessing - I don't use CFFI and can't answer any followups!
<Xach>
But I will say the mailing list is very good at helping out
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<TwoNotes>
Ah, which mailing list woiuld that be?
<Xach>
The cffi-devel mailing list.
<TwoNotes>
thanks
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<matzy_>
does anyone here use the CL-DBI packages for interfacing with databases?
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<AXUAL>
Hi all
<no-defun-allowed>
Hello AXUAL.
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<AXUAL>
Is LISP ever used in the field of AI today?
<no-defun-allowed>
No, LISP hasn't been used since the 70s or so. Lisp, on the other hand, does have some AI libraries, and I think RavenPack uses it to data mine at least.
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<AXUAL>
Oh I see.
<AXUAL>
Is Lisp the original lisp?
<no-defun-allowed>
I think upcased LISP was used before capitalized Lisp.
<AXUAL>
I see
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<AXUAL>
I thought the original LISP was good for sort of symbolic AI
<AXUAL>
Lisp*
<phoe>
it is, except AI went in a completely different direction
<no-defun-allowed>
Yes, Lisp was very important when symbolic AI was big.
<no-defun-allowed>
And some uses of it are still well served by Lisp.
<AXUAL>
True. I can see why I think
<phoe>
now the so-called "artificial intelligence" is mostly "machine learning", or, in other words, statistics and neural nets
<AXUAL>
I see
<AXUAL>
Yeah. The whole symbolic AI was pretty interesting
<AXUAL>
Like Minsky I think it was and his theory of Knowledge Frames
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<AXUAL>
I think the approach still holds merit and should merge with ML techniques
<AXUAL>
I like Lisp's metaprogramming and macros functionality
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<no-defun-allowed>
There are machinecoughgut feelingcough learning libraries in Common Lisp.
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<AXUAL>
True
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<AXUAL>
Idk why but I think lisp would be rather good for NLP
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<AXUAL>
What would the best way to improve at LISP be? Going from project to project gradually increasing in complexity?
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<no-defun-allowed>
Did I not imply strongly enough that no one upcases the name Lisp anymore?
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<AXUAL>
Fine then, CLISP
<no-defun-allowed>
Fucking what?
<Josh_2>
I reckon if you are attempting to improve a lisp, you might want to see a speech therapist ;)
<AXUAL>
that's a valid way to speel Common Lisp
<AXUAL>
spell*
<no-defun-allowed>
It is not, and shut up, Josh_2
<AXUAL>
But Wikipedia said so...
<AXUAL>
:/
<Josh_2>
AXUAL: if you want to get better at CL, then pick a project and get going
<AXUAL>
True. I think I'll make a simple grid based game
<no-defun-allowed>
CLISP is the name of one Common Lisp implementation that is not used very often outside of courses written by stupid course writers.
<AXUAL>
Fine then, SBCL
<AXUAL>
lol
<Josh_2>
You can use whatever one you want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<AXUAL>
:P
<no-defun-allowed>
SBCL is also an implementation and not Common Lisp itself.
<AXUAL>
I can still refer to it, no?
<AXUAL>
How do implementations and dialects differ? Are dialects modifications of a standard?
<no-defun-allowed>
Yes, but (not (eq sbcl common-lisp))
<AXUAL>
true
<no-defun-allowed>
And calling Lisp languages "dialects" is misleading as they usually use different standards, and they are usually mutually incomprehensible.
<Josh_2>
AXUAL: just don't accidentally say Scheme xD
<no-defun-allowed>
A Common Lisp implementation implements the language specified by the ANSI standard, and so a conforming program can run on any implementation.
<ebrasca>
I calling implementations dialects I think is ok.
<Josh_2>
I think most everyone would understand what you mean if you said dialect
<AXUAL>
True
<AXUAL>
Thanks
<no-defun-allowed>
Oh, fuck this.
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<Josh_2>
oof
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<AXUAL>
xD
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<AXUAL>
am going to sign out. see you all
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