<Xach>
how you store the files in a project doesn't have a ton of bearing on the systems it defines or relies on.
<Xach>
although it's not a formal concept, i like to think of a "project" as a single thing that may define one or more systems, and that's usually the granularity of a git repo.
<Xach>
but some git repos have a bunch of projects (though that's not all that common in CL world that i've seen)
<Xach>
and not everything uses git, but as shorthand for "source of a project" it's all that far off
<thmprover>
Right, so - broadly speaking - we could have in an MVC architecture, for example, the models do not necessarily form a system, at least not on the grounds that they're the models? (Though ostensibly the business logic may make it natural to make it an accidental, not an essential, system)
wxie has joined #lisp
<Xach>
I don't know anything about MVC, sorry.
dyelar has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nicktick has joined #lisp
<thmprover>
Another example, I'm working on a problem-solving environment for some scientific problems. I'm thinking about sticking all my numerical analysis code in the "/numerical" subdirectory, and since it's fairly self-contained, it's natural for that to form a system, right?
<Xach>
thmprover: that seems pretty reasonable
bitmapper has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU has joined #lisp
<thmprover>
Xach: cool, thanks :)
Telior has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bitmapper has joined #lisp
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU has joined #lisp
pjb has joined #lisp
Harag has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mason has quit [Quit: leaving]
parjanya has joined #lisp
PuercoPop has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
SGASAU has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
Lord_of_Life has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
pjb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Lord_of_Life has joined #lisp
terpri has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nicktick has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
igemnace has joined #lisp
hineios730393 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
hineios730393 has joined #lisp
nicktick has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
libertyprime has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
libertyprime has joined #lisp
bitmapper has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Kaisyu7 has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3)]
orivej has joined #lisp
jesse1010 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU has joined #lisp
wxie has joined #lisp
dddddd has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Harag has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Kaisyu7 has joined #lisp
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Harag has joined #lisp
nicktick has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Aurora_v_kosmose has quit [Quit: brb]
orivej has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Aurora_v_kosmose has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
freshpassport has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
gaqwas has joined #lisp
SGASAU has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
mason has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
wxie1 has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
wxie1 is now known as wxie
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
pjb has joined #lisp
orivej_ has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<beach>
Good morning everyone!
Bike has quit [Quit: leaving]
nicktick has joined #lisp
orivej_ has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
orivej has joined #lisp
SGASAU` has joined #lisp
SGASAU has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
mason has quit [Quit: leaving]
pjb has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
orivej has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
orivej has joined #lisp
mason has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
karlosz has joined #lisp
nicktick has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
orivej has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit []
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
pjb has joined #lisp
thmprover has quit [Quit: ...and miles to go before I sleep.]
SGASAU` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU` has joined #lisp
SGASAU` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jprajzne has quit [Quit: jprajzne]
SGASAU`` has joined #lisp
jprajzne has joined #lisp
rippa has quit [Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER]
jprajzne has quit [Client Quit]
jprajzne has joined #lisp
marusich has joined #lisp
notzmv has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU`` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU`` has joined #lisp
notzmv has joined #lisp
notzmv is now known as Guest83029
Guest83029 is now known as zmv
zmv is now known as notzmv
SGASAU`` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU`` has joined #lisp
cosimone has joined #lisp
pjb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
ahungry has joined #lisp
freshpassport has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
adip has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
adip has joined #lisp
SGASAU`` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU`` has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
jackdani1l has joined #lisp
jackdaniel has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
SGASAU`` has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
v3ga has joined #lisp
davsebamse has joined #lisp
dtman34 has joined #lisp
dtman34 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
libertyprime has quit [Quit: leaving]
cosimone has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
yonkunas has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
<kinope>
Does anyone have experience with code instrumentation? A cursory duckduckgo search turns up packages whose acronyms have been recycled by more recent projects. I'm attempting to implement a lock-free queue and I need a way to verify it's behavior.
jprajzne has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<beach>
How do you plan to use code instrumentation to verify the behavior?
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
rgherdt has quit [Quit: Leaving]
cosimone has quit [Quit: Quit.]
rgherdt has joined #lisp
orivej_ has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
<kinope>
Perhaps I'm not using the right word, what I need is a way to observe the sequential operations occuring to a shared data structure, across all threads in chronological order. I hope to be able to see where I messed up the logic, or where pre-emption is causing errors due to incorrect assumptions and unspecified contracts.
<beach>
Sounds hard.
<kinope>
H
wxie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
JohnMS_WORK has joined #lisp
<kinope>
Hmm, I think I may need an already functioning wait-free queue to push debugging information to from within my non functioning lock-free queue haha.
freshpassport has joined #lisp
<kinope>
I think I can just use 'assert' to specify contracts. But it would be nice to have that larger view of what's happening.
SGASAU has joined #lisp
madage has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jw4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jw4 has joined #lisp
SGASAU has joined #lisp
orivej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
jprajzne has joined #lisp
oni-on-ion has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
specbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
specbot has joined #lisp
oni-on-ion has joined #lisp
trn has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
madage has joined #lisp
pjb has joined #lisp
loke has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
alandipert has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
loke has joined #lisp
alandipert has joined #lisp
sauvin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
sdumi has joined #lisp
<p_l>
kinope: if you don't need to watch the data in real time, you can sump from each thread to separate list, with time data as part of each entry
<p_l>
You have comfort that within single process, the clock should be synced ;-)
<p_l>
Then you need to merge & sort them later for analysis
<p_l>
(this is how distributed systems do tracing, BTW)
ahungry has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sauvin has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
orivej has joined #lisp
<kinope>
Yes watching it isn't actually necessary. This seems like a fantastic approach! Thanks. I couldn't see the forest for the trees!
wxie has joined #lisp
sdumi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
sdumi has joined #lisp
dale has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep]
madage has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<kinope>
Oops, thanks p_l
madage has joined #lisp
<Shinmera>
I have a finished and working implementation of a lockless list
<p_l>
no problem
<p_l>
kinope: I will be probably working on something from the distributed space soonish, and might even use the technique described if I rewrite a certain mess of code in CL
<p_l>
So it's been on my mind
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
sdumi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<beach>
Shinmera: What kind of "list"? What is the interface?
<Shinmera>
No problem. The original paper referenced is really easy to understand.
trn has joined #lisp
<beach>
Yes, I looked at it.
orivej_ has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<kinope>
Shinmera: Awesome, I've pinned that for later
arpunk has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
arpunk has joined #lisp
shka_ has joined #lisp
sdumi has joined #lisp
Cymew has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
pjb has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
nicktick has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sdumi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
pjb has joined #lisp
orivej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
sdumi has joined #lisp
scymtym has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
<Harag>
morning, is there anyway to override the home directory for SBCL when loading?
<phoe>
envvar SBCL_HOME
<Harag>
that is where sbcl is
<Harag>
i want to change what sbcl precieves as the process HOME
orivej_ has joined #lisp
<phoe>
process HOME? what do you mean?
<phoe>
how do you access it inside SBCL?
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
marusich has quit [Quit: Leaving]
larsen has joined #lisp
<scymtym>
maybe SB-POSIX:CHDIR?
<Harag>
trying that now thanx
<phoe>
oh, the current directory? yes, that'll work
frgo_ has joined #lisp
frgo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<Harag>
phoe: actually its a bit more complicated... i am trying to start sbcl in a "google cloud run" (basically a docker) but the CMD command to start SBCL is changing the root user home form /root to /home which seems to leave quicklisp in a tiz...sbcl either cant find ql or if I specify a set dir for quicklisp and point sbcl to a sysinit file that will work then QL loading crashes with ... 11 nested errors. SB-KERNEL:*MAXIMUM-ERROR-DEPTH* exceeded.
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
orivej_ has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
<phoe>
nested debugger like that? eww
orivej has joined #lisp
pve has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
<Harag>
darn ... SB-POSIX:CHDIR seams to work!!! I got sbcl to actually run now to see if loading code works
<Harag>
2 days wasted
<scymtym>
nested errors are still strange. is it trying to print a pathname containing "~" as part of the backtrace while the HOME environment variable is not set or something like that?
pikajew has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<phoe>
would be worth submitting a SBCL issue for it, too, if you can reproduce that and have crash logs
pikajew has joined #lisp
liberliver has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
<Harag>
phoe: got to run but will have a look
shifty has joined #lisp
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
wxie has joined #lisp
libertyprime has joined #lisp
nikkal has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU has joined #lisp
nicktick has joined #lisp
epony has quit [Quit: QUIT]
ralt has joined #lisp
nikkal has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
epony has joined #lisp
epony has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
even4void has joined #lisp
duncan_ has joined #lisp
epony has joined #lisp
pjb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
shangul has joined #lisp
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
rogersm has joined #lisp
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
orivej has joined #lisp
cpt_nemo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
cpt_nemo has joined #lisp
pjb has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
heisig has joined #lisp
Va has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
wglb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
sz0 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
sz0 has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
orivej_ has joined #lisp
Krystof has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
matijja``` is now known as matijja
Va has quit [Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!]
<Harag>
I can require sb-posix and chdir to root but (user-homedir-pathname) is still /home ...
<Harag>
and it looks like (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op "quicklisp" :verbose nil) is failing with Component "quicklisp" not found in quicklisp/setup.lisp
<Harag>
which leads to ((:METHOD ASDF/OPERATE:OPERATE (SYMBOL T)) ASDF/LISP-ACTION:LOAD-OP "quicklisp" :VERBOSE NIL) [fast-method]
<Harag>
which leads to ((:METHOD ASDF/OPERATE:OPERATE (SYMBOL T)) ASDF/LISP-ACTION:LOAD-OP "quicklisp" :VERBOSE NIL) [fast-method] changed too much to cope with.
<Harag>
sorry for the double paste there
<jackdaniel>
the usual way to load quicklisp is (load "/path/to/ql/setup.lisp")
<Harag>
yes but that crashes with 11 nested errors. SB-KERNEL:*MAXIMUM-ERROR-DEPTH* exceeded
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Harag>
so I have put a lot of prints in it to see what is happening and am loading it with --load and not .sbclrc
SGASAU has joined #lisp
<Harag>
loading it I maen the setup.lisp file
<jackdaniel>
maybe try to "install" quicklisp at a location where paths do not change (changing paths sounds like an awful way to do things, probably there is a good reason for that though)
<jackdaniel>
i.e /opt/quicklisp/
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Harag>
yeah I am not the one changing the HOME from /root to /home "google cloud run" CMD is for some reason. So I installed ql in a custom folder /src/ and pointed init to that but will try to install it in /home
<Harag>
while its compiling... I do the install with RUN in the docker file and run reports the HOME to be /root but when you use CMD it reports HOME as /home ...
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
Bourne has joined #lisp
akrl` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
akrl` has joined #lisp
nicktick has joined #lisp
<Harag>
the RUN command has no issues with QL but the CMD has and the only diff I could see was the HOME /root vs /home
<Harag>
installing ql in /home gives the same crash message
<jackdaniel>
nested errors are usually because of stream problems
<jackdaniel>
i.e you can't write output to signal the error
aeth has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
(so, due to impossibility to write, you signal another error, which can't be written)
<Harag>
which leads me back to trying to debug quicklisp/setup.lisp to see what caused the first error...
doomlist3 has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
I'd try to make streams available first, to simply see it ,)
<jackdaniel>
the first error may be for the same reason, i.e that quicklisp can't write something like "may the force be with you"
nydel has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
_death has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
banjiewen has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
banjiewen_ is now known as banjiewen
freshpassport has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
s/force/forth/
chewbranca_ has joined #lisp
bacterio has joined #lisp
<Harag>
can you take a guess at what linux command the CMD is doing to change the HOME but not the actual user, I checked the user is 0 in RUN and CMD and I cant see that they are using su or something to change users ps reports all processes to be using root
<Harag>
maybe if I can understand that I can come up with a why ql is unhappy
Bourne has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<jackdaniel>
I've decided long time ago to not pay attention to systemd and docker hacks in the kernel, life is too short to play catch with kludges
EvW has quit [*.net *.split]
jasom has quit [*.net *.split]
crazybigdan has quit [*.net *.split]
chewbranca has quit [*.net *.split]
nicktick has quit [Ping timeout: 247 seconds]
chewbranca_ is now known as chewbranca
<Harag>
what is worse is in pure docker it works fine but in "google cloud run" it fails
<Harag>
so every test is a horrible cycle of compile and upload
<Xach>
very antithetical to incremental, living updates
<jackdaniel>
I remember that sbcl's mutexes on google vms were not fair, what was a major disaster (not to mention amount of time the person who tracked that have wasted)
EvW1 has joined #lisp
sdumi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<jackdaniel>
Harag: can you run "plain" sbcl and start a swank server without loading ql?
nicktick has joined #lisp
<Harag>
I can run plain sbcl
<jackdaniel>
then you could try to connect to it, and then see the error in a console
<Harag>
have not tried swank..
sdumi has joined #lisp
edgar-rft has joined #lisp
<Harag>
because you have to do some really crazy stuff the connect to it...basically from what I found on google you have to setup a machine with a fixed ip so that the docker can do a call back and connect to you and then you can work with it
<jackdaniel>
you will probably need to change the loopback interface and that will not be safe, but for debugging that should be good enough
<jackdaniel>
did I mention "kludges" and how life is short? :)
bacterio has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<Harag>
wont be the first time I spent weeks on a single problem... wont be the last
crazybigdan has joined #lisp
<jackdaniel>
maybe you could ssh into this docker image and run emacs from inside?
<jackdaniel>
then you could use the localhsot
<jackdaniel>
localhost*
dyelar has joined #lisp
SGASAU` has joined #lisp
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
adeht is now known as _death
crazybigdan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
orivej_ has joined #lisp
rogersm has joined #lisp
wxie has joined #lisp
crazybigdan has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
nydel has joined #lisp
jasom has joined #lisp
bacterio has joined #lisp
SGASAU` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
even4void has joined #lisp
SGASAU` has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
bacterio has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<Harag>
well its the (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op "quicklisp" :verbose t ) that is causing the "11 nested errors " but cant get more info out of it than that...
<Harag>
I hacked the paths so that it at least finds "quicklisp" now
yottabyte_ is now known as yottabyte
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
<pjb>
quicklisp is not loaded with asdf.
<pjb>
quicklisp is loaded by loading ~/quicklisp/setup.lisp or some other such file.
parjanya has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
gxt has joined #lisp
Necktwi has joined #lisp
freshpassport has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
doomlist3 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
bacterio has joined #lisp
kinope has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<Harag>
ok well I dumped a core and that works
<Harag>
using RUN
<Harag>
loading the core with CMD works
<Harag>
now I just need to put it in the back ground, just running woo blocks the deploy from ever completing
cosimone has joined #lisp
bitmapper has joined #lisp
bacterio has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
doomlist3 has joined #lisp
orivej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
<Harag>
I suspect all the trouble is stdin, "google cloud run" does not allow you to pass parameters to fake it like you can in docker native with -ti
jw4 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jw4 has joined #lisp
<bitmapper>
Xach: i noticed your twitter post, how much have you worked with the Obj-C interface in CCL?
dale_ has joined #lisp
dale_ is now known as dale
efm has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<Xach>
bitmapper: none
<bitmapper>
it's surprisingly nice
<Xach>
I don't get the impression that it is comparable to old MCL
<bitmapper>
it really doesn't feel like just objc bindings
<bitmapper>
but rather like flavors
<Xach>
I will have to revisit
<bitmapper>
i was working on updating the IDE to add dark mode support a bit ago and it was quite nice
Harag has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Harag has joined #lisp
<bitmapper>
Xach: the only thing is the interfaces are quite old, and they are not done updating the software that generates them
<bitmapper>
because it doesn't really work anymore
shifty has joined #lisp
sdumi has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
bacterio has joined #lisp
cosimone has quit [Quit: Quit.]
milanj has joined #lisp
cosimone has joined #lisp
jw4 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
nikkal has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Blukunfando has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
bacterio has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
ahungry has joined #lisp
troydm has quit [Quit: What is Hope? That all of your wishes and all of your dreams come true? To turn back time because things were not supposed to happen like that (C) Rau Le Creuset]
Robdgreat has joined #lisp
narimiran has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
sjl_ has joined #lisp
yonkunas has joined #lisp
Va has quit [Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!]
akrl` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
akrl` has joined #lisp
kaftejiman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kaftejiman has joined #lisp
notzmv has joined #lisp
efm has joined #lisp
kaftejiman has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
efm has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
kaftejiman has joined #lisp
bacterio has joined #lisp
kaftejiman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kaftejiman has joined #lisp
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
rippa has joined #lisp
bacterio has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
flip214 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
_jrjsmrtn has joined #lisp
__jrjsmrtn__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
flip214 has joined #lisp
Cymew has joined #lisp
hineios7303934 has joined #lisp
SGASAU` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU` has joined #lisp
shangul has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hineios730393 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gaqwas has joined #lisp
Cymew has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
madage has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
grewal has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jeosol has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
grewal has joined #lisp
lucasb has joined #lisp
bacterio has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
nikkal has joined #lisp
jw4 has joined #lisp
akrl` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
akrl` has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Changing host]
gaqwas has joined #lisp
madage has joined #lisp
EvW1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
orivej_ has joined #lisp
Josh_2 has joined #lisp
<Josh_2>
Afternoon all
<beach>
Hello Josh_2.
jcowan has left #lisp [#lisp]
<Josh_2>
I want to sleep N amount of times in 1 second, how do I do this? Say I want to sleep 5000 times, how do I get the number I pass to sleep?
<Josh_2>
I'm a total maths tard
<Yardanico>
Josh_2: 1 / 5000 ?
<Yardanico>
that's in seconds
<Yardanico>
0.2ms
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<Josh_2>
I swear
<Josh_2>
:(
shifty has joined #lisp
<Josh_2>
Ofcourse it was something as trivial as that, it always is xD
<Josh_2>
cheers Yardanico
nicktick has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
pjb has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
bacterio has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jeosol has joined #lisp
<shka_>
clj — Describe clj here — Specify license here
<shka_>
very descriptive new project in quicklisp :-)
v3ga has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
v3ga has joined #lisp
akrl` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
akrl` has joined #lisp
sdumi has joined #lisp
karayan has joined #lisp
<Xach>
oh crud
<Xach>
I missed that, sorry
Harag has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Harag has joined #lisp
bacterio has joined #lisp
<Xach>
that got around my very advanced bogus metadata detector AI
pjb has joined #lisp
<pve>
Hi, I recently saw a library that allowed for better error reporting in macros, but I can't remember the name. Does this ring a bell for anyone?
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: closed"]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
iAmDecim has joined #lisp
nikkal has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
gaqwas has quit [Quit: Leaving]
bacterio has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
gaqwas has joined #lisp
midre has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
dra has joined #lisp
grewal has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
duncan_ has quit [Quit: duncan_]
grewal has joined #lisp
akrl` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
akrl` has joined #lisp
troydm has joined #lisp
midre has joined #lisp
milanj has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
oni-on-ion has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
oni-on-ion has joined #lisp
bacterio has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
dominic35 has joined #lisp
bacterio has joined #lisp
dominic34 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
dominic35 is now known as dominic34
sauvin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
EvW has joined #lisp
iAmDecim has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
iAmDecim has joined #lisp
troydm has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
dominic34 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
bacterio has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
iAmDecim has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
troydm has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
SGASAU`` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU`` has joined #lisp
theseb has joined #lisp
<theseb>
Can I ask what CL folks think of Clojure? I personally some modernizations it added
<heisig>
theseb: I once wanted to write a compiler in Clojure. Turns out it takes 6 seconds to even start the process. So we ditched it for CL. No regrets so far :)
<pjb>
theseb: there are two CL libraries implementing Clojure. If you have fun with that, then have fun!
<heisig>
I think the main selling point is JVM integration and its immutable data structures. Sounds like we should advertise ABCL a bit more.
<pjb>
version 1.7.0 of abcl was recently released.
SGASAU`` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU`` has joined #lisp
<theseb>
heisig: certainly that can't still be true...6 s to do anything!?
<theseb>
pjb: one thing i really like is they did away with defining lists in terms of conses....instead they define a "sequence" type from which lists and vectors are built
<heisig>
theseb: That was a few years ago. But I just checked again, 'time clojure -e "(+ 2 3)"' takes 2.2 seconds on my machine.
nydel has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
cosimone has quit [Quit: Quit.]
SGASAU`` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU`` has joined #lisp
hapticFeels has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<theseb>
heisig: well i'm guessing that just startup...still...not sure why so slow to start up
<theseb>
heisig: presumably if you ran a program for 1 hour the extra 2 s wouldn't matter
<pjb>
theseb: yeah. useless.
bacterio has joined #lisp
ncakerlist has joined #lisp
aindilis has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<heisig>
theseb: Yes, that's mostly JVM startup time. But it also makes it quite useless for applications that are invoked frequently.
doomlist3 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
PuercoPop has joined #lisp
<pjb>
heisig: well, obviously, you wouldn't keep booting them all the time. You'd do like Android, you'd boot once and that's it.
<pjb>
(until you poweroff the computer).
bacterio has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
even4void has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
nydel has joined #lisp
theseb has quit [Quit: Leaving]
liberliver has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
toorevitimirp has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
EvW2 has joined #lisp
heisig has quit [Quit: Leaving]
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
EvW2 is now known as EvW
sdumi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
bacterio has joined #lisp
sdumi has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
theseb has joined #lisp
<theseb>
i know why "or" must be a macro....but does "and" have to be a macro? I can't remember why I implement "and" as a macro
<theseb>
The only reason I can see is that if the 1st arg is false...you should NOT eval the 2nd arg
<theseb>
that is the only reason i can see why it may have to be a special form
<theseb>
is that right?
<Xach>
theseb: that's a pretty good reason
<Josh_2>
That's how it functions and the functionality is very useful
<theseb>
Xach: ah..ok..thanks...i always forget that
<phoe>
ralt: "And you have to somehow figure out how to distribute that folder." I guess, via a zip archive
<phoe>
or a binary tarball
nicktick has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<ralt>
phoe: yes, and "installation" of an archive is usually awkward
<ralt>
I guess I should phrase it another way
<phoe>
welllll, unzip into /opt/, symlink in all proper places; it's not very automated
<phoe>
your system seems to have a different scope.
<phoe>
...than deploy, it is.
<ralt>
it's very related
<ralt>
Deploy lets you bundle a GUI application into an archive that users to unzip and run. linux-packaging lets you bundle a GUI application into a package that can be installed and run.
<phoe>
yes, but deploy doesn't concern itself with static linking or foreign libraries found in apt/aur/yum - it grabs them all and dumps them all along with the binary
pjb has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<phoe>
next to the binary
<ralt>
I mean, at the end of the day, the goal of both of those is to distribute a Lisp application to users
<phoe>
yes, obviously
<ralt>
in that sense, the goal is very much the same, but the approach taken to do it is fairly different, yes
<ralt>
which is why it makes sense to me to do this comparison, but I want to make sure I'm fair in it.
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
shifty has joined #lisp
<ralt>
I edited the readme, btw.
dra_ has joined #lisp
h4milton has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
SGASAU has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SGASAU has joined #lisp
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ has joined #lisp
libertyprime has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
dra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
whiteline_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
aindilis has joined #lisp
libertyprime has joined #lisp
lucasb has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
wxie has joined #lisp
terpri has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
pjb has joined #lisp
mason has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mason has joined #lisp
dra_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
X-Scale` has joined #lisp
X-Scale has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<grewal>
One of the less obvious reasons I like lisp is that I don't have to memorize/look up operator precedence rules
<oni-on-ion>
trees are beautiful =)
<ralt>
You can see a lot of them on /r/trees
<oni-on-ion>
yes and outside. but tree shapes, hierarchies, etc =)