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<dieggsy>
Is there anything _like_ hy but that is a proper scheme/CL or scheme/CL compliant? That is, a scheme/cl for interacting with Python. Hy is neat, but some of its syntax is... odd
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<Shinmera>
Implementing Common Lisp is a gargantuan task.
<Shinmera>
You can go the other way though with CLPython
<Xach>
burgled-batteries seemed to be something kind of like that?
<Shinmera>
That's another thing to run Python on CL, not the other way around.
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<dieggsy>
Shinmera: heh, cool nonetheless! (and yeah, i kinda would expect it to be a scheme for some reason, but to my knowledge no such thing exists)
<dieggsy>
besides hy, but hy's syntax makes me twitch a bit
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<dieggsy>
er, and it's not either really
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<fiddlerwoaroof_>
It's under the same license as flexi-streams (BSD-2-clause), so you should be able to use it with anything
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<fiddlerwoaroof_>
I think I wrote it by taking some code from flexi-streams and modifying it a bit, because flexi-streams didn't really expose this kind of functionality: it generally assumes that the stream "owns" the underlying vector.
<fiddlerwoaroof_>
I'll submit it as a quicklisp project to make it easier to user
<jmercouris>
fiddlerwoaroof_: for a second I thought you were referencing me
<Colleen>
jmercouris: Shinmera said 2 hours, 54 minutes ago: Cause it's a place to hang out with friends and chill on the weekend.
<jmercouris>
my old IRC username was user_
<jmercouris>
Shinmera: interesting, it makes sense, i like it!
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<pagnol>
fiddlerwoaroof_, I found out though that flexi-stream:with-input-from-sequence does the job too
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<fiddlerwoaroof_>
Hmm, I wonder why I missed that
<pagnol>
when I first used I got an error from flexi-stream, so that I assumed I had used it incorrectly... but it turned out that the error originated from somewhere deeper in the stack and I had used it correctly
<pagnol>
because the library I'm using (lisp-binary) also relies on flexi-stream for some of its functionality
<fiddlerwoaroof_>
I remember evaluating flexi-streams when I wrote that library and finding that something didn't work quite the way I wanted
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<fiddlerwoaroof_>
But I forget the details now, I suppose I should have documented it in the readme \_(;/)_/
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<jmercouris>
How do I make a nickname for a package I did not define?
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<jmercouris>
It is not possible from what I gather?
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<Xach>
jmercouris: you can with rename-package.
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<jmercouris>
Xach: Thank you
<Xach>
I vagely remember some utility that provides add-nickname but maybe it was a dream.
<jmercouris>
my whole life feels like some sort of third person reality these days
<jmercouris>
like I'm watching a movie
<jmercouris>
not sure if that's what you mean as well, but, yeah
<Bike>
that sounds like derealization.
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<jmercouris>
sure does
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<jmercouris>
Xach: Do you still reccomend people use build-app?
<Xach>
jmercouris: I still use it. I like it.
<jmercouris>
Good enough for me, :)
<Xach>
I would recommend it to anyone who finds other options more difficult to understand.
<Xach>
(that is why I made it in the first place)
<jmercouris>
I was just thinking about ripping it out of a project
<jmercouris>
that is all, but if it still works, why change it
<Xach>
It has some problems. I wish the multiplatform support was better. I have a plan to improve it but not the time.
<jmercouris>
Man, I know
<jmercouris>
I wish we had more time
<jmercouris>
every company says "we care about open source" but I've not seen a dollar of their investment into it
<jmercouris>
they throw a couple of peanuts and pay lip service
<jmercouris>
I wish I could support the community more, monetarily at least, the skills I don't have
<jmercouris>
I really do care
<jmercouris>
I'll just throw this out there in general, if anyone in this community needs someone to talk to, I'm always happy to listen
<jmercouris>
and provide advice, if solicited
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<aeth>
jmercouris: Software companies should require that any hours of developer work beyond 30 in a week go to open source projects. This could help prevent burnout. (This could include Creative Commons and cover some non-programming roles, too.)
<jmercouris>
aeth: Yeah, in a better world, it could be so
<jmercouris>
I'm hoping that nEXT can one day be an open source company that actually gives back to the community
<aeth>
jmercouris: Then you can comply with my proposed rule while overworking your developers with 90 hour weeks! Perfect!
<jmercouris>
I'll probably not succeed, but at least I'm trying
<jmercouris>
aeth: I don't plan on overworking anybody, I'm sorry to dissapoint
<jmercouris>
I've already experienced a terrible burnout myself
<jmercouris>
full time work as a professional engineer + 2x as many classes as a normal student + moving to a new country + research publications simultaneously + many family health issues = not a good time
<jmercouris>
ask me how I know
<jmercouris>
for now, I'm just focusing on relaxing, and finding good balance in my life
<jmercouris>
and I hope to help others as well, I want everyone to just feel happy, and safe, and relaxed
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<jmercouris>
rme: I'm trying to use clon and I think CCL is eating my command line arguments
<jmercouris>
how can I get it to avoid doing that, is there a way?
<jmercouris>
"--"?
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<beach>
Hello kami.
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<pjb>
dmiles: it's very hard to confirm such a thing. The probability that someone derived such a defmethod macro in a variant of eulisp or some other lisp or scheme is very high.
<pjb>
dmiles: are you trying to load EuLisp code?
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<dmiles>
well i was asking in order to figure out if there was some older type type or a special stylized non standard defmethod syntax i had not seen
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<dmiles>
it really must be a Eulisp-only thing
<dmiles>
I am using it to get a few defclasses
<dmiles>
since of course people very rarely use defclass to define builtin classes.. except me and say EusLisp etc
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<dmiles>
I was searching a few impls to see who defclassed hash-table that is.. and found EusLisp
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<pjb>
dmiles: again, it is most probablye there are other macro with different syntaxes used to define classes and methods out there. There are more OO systems than programming languages…
<pjb>
dmiles: basically, take a scheme teacher and 100 or 200 students, and you get 200 different OO systems.
<dmiles>
:)
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<beach>
dmiles: You can count on SICL using DEFCLASS to define the HASH-TABLE class, as well as the classes for SYMBOL, PACKAGE, etc.
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<dmiles>
beach, right on, oh i now i see why i missed it on my last grep over impls.. it used defstruct.. (defstruct is just fine(
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<beach>
I keep forgetting about DEFSTRUCT since I have absolutely no intention of using it in SICL code. :)
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<beach>
And even if I *did* use it, it would have the absolute same representation as if I had used DEFCLASS.
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<dmiles>
yeah in my impl DEFSTRUCT and DEFCLASS become the same representation .. jsut with DEFSTRUCT i create extra support of slot numbers
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<dmiles>
beach, you store symbol-plist's in env ?
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<beach>
Yes.
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<dmiles>
Nice, quite a bit is stored in the env
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<dmiles>
rather than doing what i and many others do.. chekcing for environmental overrides and then going to symbol
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<dmiles>
(like for symbol-functions and variable types)
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<beach>
In fact, I save some space that way, because very few symbols will have a non-empty property list, so no need to represent them in the environment. In a typical implementation, this cell is allocated in every symbol, whether needed or not.
<beach>
The same thing goes for the function cell, the value cell, etc. In SICL, a symbol has only a NAME and a PACKAGE.
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<beach>
I can even imagine some implementations having two function cells in every symbol, one for the name itself and one for (SETF <name>).
<beach>
Worse (in terms of maintainability), some implementations have a function cell for the name itself, but store the SETF name somewhere else.
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<sirkmatija>
Hello, I am building a small web game and I am wondering how to serve a file (not a string) by ningle. Thanks for your help.
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<sirkmatija>
I tried reading file into string and then serving it, but then it doesn't find js script file, even if I provide full (not relative) path
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<pjb>
sirkmatija: I have no idea, but I guess it would involve reading ningle documentation…
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<sirkmatija>
I went through ningle readme and examples, but I couldn't find any other docs
<Shinmera>
Welcome to fukamachiware
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<JuanDaugherty>
sirkmatija, y u gotta use that no name thing when everybody wants you to use the lisp majors (hunchentoot, etc)?
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<Shinmera>
hunchentoot is not a web framework.
<JuanDaugherty>
and whosits is?
<sirkmatija>
I am using ningle, not just hunchentoot
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<jackdaniel>
sirkmatija: try putting there an actual pathname
<jackdaniel>
like #P"/foo/bar/file.txt"
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<jackdaniel>
if you are more interested in shipping whole directory of files consider using (:static :path "/public/" :root #P"/my/dir/") as parameter to lack:builder (instead of just making ningle:<app> instance)
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<sirkmatija>
thank you, it serves the file now, but the script isn't found - when i inspect source it say URL /script.js was not found on this server.
<jackdaniel>
are you sure it is under /script.js ? not for instance my-host:8080/my-app/script.js ?
<jackdaniel>
port is important, host is important, absolute path is important
<sirkmatija>
oh I figured it out, thanks
<jackdaniel>
computers are not magic, usually they do exactly what you tell them to do (and when they *do* magic for you, then it is usually a game over [opinionated])
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<sirkmatija>
I thought I don't have to serve the files separately if they are in same dir, a stupid mistake
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<Shinmera>
Just a quick announcement, the emacs package to interact with plaster.tymoon.eu is now on Melpa: https://melpa.org/#/plaster
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<jdz>
Shinmera: Getting much spam yet?
<Shinmera>
Practically none so far
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<Shinmera>
But I'm sure the time will come when I have to add a captcha
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<beach>
Shinmera: I don't use "fukamachiware", because it doesn't solve the problems I want to solve, but from what I hear, people are very impressed with it, so I assumed it was high-quality stuff. Not so?
<Shinmera>
beach: All of it has one fatal flaw: a severe lack of documentation
<beach>
Ah, I see. Maybe his English is not good enough.
<makomo>
hello
<makomo>
did fukamachi ever visit #lisp?
<beach>
Hello makomo.
<Shinmera>
Not to my knowledge
<beach>
But he did come to ELS at least once, right?
<Shinmera>
Yes, in London
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<makomo>
how big is ELS usually? (in the number of people that come)
<beach>
Slightly less than 100 usually.
<Shinmera>
I think last year we had just below a hundred people?
<Shinmera>
Above 50 usually though.
<beach>
For many years now, yes.
<makomo>
ah, quite small compared to other conferences, interesting
<makomo>
oh beach, i have a couple more typos to report (hopefully you won't mind me snooping around :-))
<beach>
makomo: Compare to other Common Lisp conferences? I don't think so.
<phoe>
^
<makomo>
no, other programming languages conferences
<Shinmera>
I'm looking forward to meeting drmeister, beach, and snmsts again.
<beach>
makomo: Not at all. If stuff is freely available, it is there for you to read and comment on.
<makomo>
there's only one other lisp conference i know of and that's ILC
<makomo>
beach: i agree very much with your essay on pyschology and people being inefficient at the stuff they do (talking about software specifically)
<makomo>
i've observed the same thing many times myself
<phoe>
LOSH: Lisp On Southern Hemisphere
<phoe>
but sjl might have something to say about it {:
<makomo>
however, i managed to get one of my uni friends to try out emacs and he's been actually using it for the last week or so
<makomo>
he also started learning CL. we'll see how far he gets
<makomo>
i've helped him install slime and he's reading pcl currently (started with land of lisp but then i intervened)
<beach>
makomo: Well done. I know how hard it is to get people to improve.
<beach>
phoe: Asian...
<phoe>
beach: I know, I'm being silly.
<beach>
phoe: Singapore is a bit far from the Arctic.
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<beach>
... to say the least.
<phoe>
Oh, Antarctic then! :)
* phoe
goes quiet
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<beach>
Yeah, that's it.
<makomo>
beach: yeah, true. i figured that it's good to try to spread the word and work on "recruiting" new people into the whole hacker culture
<makomo>
there's only so much you can do of course, but still spreading the word is part of "giving back" imo
<beach>
Sure, but my experience is that if you are too eager trying, then it can backfire.
<makomo>
sharing the knowledge you found, etc.
<makomo>
exactly!
<makomo>
that's why i'm trying to be helpful but also not too helpful
<makomo>
i.e. i want *them* to be inetersted, and not me doing all the work
<beach>
It's a delicate balance.
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<makomo>
so i'm trying to stay on the side kind of
<beach>
Yeah, good plan.
<makomo>
yup, i've had it backfire a couple of times :-)
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<makomo>
as much as i'd like to share knowledge, you still have to pick people who you're sharing with carefully
<makomo>
otherwise it's just wasted effort
* Shinmera
feels like he's wasting his effort on this channel more often than he'd like to admit
<makomo>
:-)
<makomo>
maybe that's why fukamachi never visits
<beach>
makomo: Now if you could snoop around in my software documentation as well, that would be great! :)
<shrdlu68>
makomo: Why did you "intervene"?
<beach>
makomo: I just think it is far away, and the trip is expensive.
<makomo>
beach: i hope to do that in time :-). i'm still not at the level i want to be
<makomo>
i've only recently started with CL
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<makomo>
beach: but i do like your approach to documentation -- nicely written and formatted whitepapers, etc.
<beach>
Thanks.
<makomo>
shrdlu68: i feel like PCL is a much better book than LL
<makomo>
of course that's just my opinion, but i had a weird feeling when i was reading LL (i didn't finish it completely though)
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<jdz>
makomo: Be careful with the acronyms – there's another LoL book.
<makomo>
jdz: yeah, that's why i didn't want to use the O :-)
<makomo>
so i used just LL instead
<beach>
So which one do you mean?
<beach>
by LL?
<makomo>
Land of Lisp
<pjb>
LoL because it's like, LOL…
<makomo>
Let Over Lambda has "LOL" spelled out on the front cover also
<makomo>
and also, words like "of", "and", "at", etc. usually aren't part of acronyms
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<dim>
is CASE supposed to “work” on integers?
<dim>
or only with eq, maybe?
<beach>
EQL.
<beach>
So yes, integers are fine.
<dim>
then I can't understand the bug I am looking at
<beach>
You would have to precede them with #. for that to work.
<dim>
I have column-type 252, which should be eql to (defconstant +mysql-type-blob+ #xfc) I think, and (column-definition-v41-packet-cs-coll column-definition) is 63, which should be eql to (defconstant +mysql-cs-coll-binary+ 63), and, sorry what?
<dim>
ahah
<beach>
I guess you could do #.(list +...+ +...+)
<beach>
... rather than doing each one.
<dim>
this code has been wrong for a long time then
<dim>
I though case would be much better than cond and member
<dim>
and the 'otherwise kept it ok in my testing
<beach>
I think SBCL CASE expands to COND.
<beach>
I suppose the logic behind how CASE works is that the compiler should be able to build a hash table, perhaps with perfect hashing, to make the choice real fast.
<dim>
(case (#. (list +mysql-type-string+ +mysql-type-var-string+ +mysql-type-tiny-blob+ +mysql-type-medium-blob+ +mysql-type-long-blob+ +mysql-type-blob+) ...)) doesn't seem to cut it
<beach>
But that assumes that there are A LOT of cases.
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<jackdaniel>
or that the case is called MANY times
<schweers>
Does anyone use cl-launch with CCL? I’ve been using cl-launch with sbcl for a few months now and wanted to try my code on CCL too. When I start a repl, load and run my code from there it works. So thats a good start. When I use cl-launch I am dropped in a repl too (which doesn’t happen with sbcl).
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<jackdaniel>
alexandria has switch, but it doesn't allow specifying many elements (just one, but it is evaluated)
<dim>
jackdaniel: the case here is called MANY times
<dim>
should I build my own hash table?!
<jackdaniel>
dim: I know, that's why using case + #. is a better choice than cond + member
<beach>
jackdaniel: That is not enough if the CASE would take longer if a hash table were used.
<schweers>
also, when I try to run my code from this cl-launch induced repl CCL bails out because the heap is exhausted (which does not happen when I use a repl directly).
<Shinmera>
in some cases a jump table would also work
<dim>
but the #. (list +...+ ) doesn't seem to work, so either I tried it wrong again, or maybe I am testing the code I didn't edit
<beach>
It should work.
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<dim>
ok the function was inlined, so recompiling it was not helping
<dim>
IOW, I wasn't tested the code I wrote
<dim>
I was about to say "and now it's pretty slow", jira.plugindata 0 45 343.8 MB 44.985s
<dim>
maybe not that slow
<_death>
beach: it may not work, because the value may not be available during read time
<beach>
I suppose if the labels are rational numbers, a technique similar to my fast generic dispatch could be used. That could be a big win.
<jackdaniel>
right, hash-table proves beneficial over linear search above some threshold
<beach>
_death: sure.
<beach>
_death: I guess dim will find out.
<dim>
there are 11 “cases” (entries) to check against, plus a catch-all
<jackdaniel>
sbcl makes constants available at read time (if defined at the same file), ccl doesn't - both behaviors are conforming
<_death>
beach: dim could eval-when his defconstants
<jackdaniel>
to make code portable (while having defconstant) using eval-when is the solution
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<beach>
_death: Yeah, I wasn't going to bring it up, because I saw no trace of the definitions in the same file, so I assumed they existed already.
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<beach>
With 11 cases, it could definitely benefit from a technique like my fast generic dispatch, provided the entries are numbers, of course.
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<beach>
er, real numbers.
<_death>
a tree case analysis or some perfect hash-table thingy may work, if it's even needed (profile first)
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<pjb>
xb
<pjb>
Oops.
<beach>
_death: A tree (or rather binary search using constants) is what my fast generic dispatch uses, simply because it is faster than trying to store some data structure in memory.
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<_death>
beach: yeah, with such a small number of cases it makes sense
<beach>
It makes sense even when the number of cases is large, because the number of comparisons only grows logarithmically.
<beach>
So you would need thousands of cases in order for it to be slower than a few memory accesses.
<_death>
beach: if memory is accessed then you've lost the benefit
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<beach>
That's what I am saying. My technique does not access memory, but a perfect hashing scheme would.
<_death>
beach: we are in agreement :)
<beach>
Good.
<dim>
patches welcome and appreciated guys!
<dim>
I just fixed with #. (list ...) for now
<beach>
Did it work?
<_death>
someone should port gperf to CL
<dim>
it did, thanks a lot!
<beach>
Sure.
<dim>
I don't think that code path is the most prominent to fix in qmynd btw, but it'd be nice to improve it some more
<dim>
27.857s instead of 45s when using SBCL rather than CCL
<beach>
This discussion did give me the idea that I should implement CASE like that in SICL (for the case of real numbers).
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<dim>
+1 ;-)
<beach>
[*sigh*] so much work, so little time.
<dim>
then how to we make such improvements reach through SBCL/CCL/others?
<Shinmera>
beach: real numbers and characters.
<beach>
Yes, that too.
<beach>
dim: You buy the maintainers a beer (or some wine) at ELS.
<_death>
beach: it reminds me of pkhuong's string-case.. and I wouldn't be surprised if I encountered more case operators like it in the past
<dim>
by the way with the fix the MySQL read now takes 2s while writing to PostgreSQL takes the 27s (in another thread)
<beach>
_death: Sure, that would be valuable.
<dim>
so my current performance problem is to do with format-vector-row if some of you guys want to play around
<phoe>
reduce accepts a sequence, therefore it can accept a vector.
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<dim>
cool, thanks, I missed that I guess
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<dim>
I must have also considered :key for class/struct slot accesses, in my mind, but the API is way more generic than that
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<dim>
then there's a huge optimisation (I think) to be done here by only considering UTF-8 convertions for text based datatypes
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<dim>
and then another idea is to avoid batching altogether in the db-2-db case for pgloader, as error handling then should be taken care of at the source db rather than with a reject file
<dim>
oh my.
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<_death>
hope you got automatic fixmind->bigmind transition or you're gonna overflow ;)
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<dim>
what's that?
<_death>
a joke
<dim>
didn't get it
<dim>
is there any point in building a single vector of bytes compared to a vector of vector of bytes, on a pure performance standpoint?
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<Shinmera>
Uh, well, you have to pass two indirections if you have two vectors nested.
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<_death>
such questions are best left to the profiler
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<rumbler31>
with (setq *print-radix* t), (CCL:MAKE-SOCKET :REMOTE-HOST "beta.quicklisp.org" :REMOTE-PORT 80) fails with bt https://pastebin.com/1ZQK1qQu
<rumbler31>
is this a known bug?
<rumbler31>
derp wrong window
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<rumbler31>
looking to run the fast-io tests. I'm not familiar with many testing frameworks yet, but it doesn't look like an asdf test-op is defined for fast-io. How do I go about... running the tests?
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<flip214>
Can I pass multiple :long-name options to CLON:DEFSYNOPSIS, so that any one of the long names can be used? Ie. aliases?
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<rumbler31>
sjl: no dice, tried a few versions of that. oh well
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<sjl>
rumbler31: as far as I know that's the intended way to run tests for an ASDF system. if fast-io does it differently, they should document it.
<rumbler31>
so i've been looking for machinery for that, I expect that the test-op function to call would be explicitly defined in the .asd file right?
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<sjl>
ah it looks like they do some... "interesting" things in the test definition
<sjl>
the define the tests in a separate system, like a lot of systems do, to avoid having to load the unit test framework to use the main system
<sjl>
which eval-when's a couple load-system calls
<sjl>
which will break unless you've quickloaded them at least once
<rumbler31>
yea, ran right into that one
<sjl>
and then does (checkl:define-test-op :fast-io :fast-io-test) to I think add the in-order-to?
<sjl>
I dunno, it's weird and non-standard and won't work like most people expect -- (progn (ql:quickload :fast-io) (asdf:test-system :fast-io)) won't work without other stuff
<sjl>
I'd file a bug
<Xach>
asdf:test-system is a relatively recent thing.
<Xach>
I like that it exists, but it hasn't been the way to do it since forever.
<sjl>
or whatever it's a shortcut for
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<Xach>
I also find the way to set it up a bit cumbersome. Kind of a throwback to the (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op ...) days.
<Xach>
and the suggestion to embed uiop in the system file also rubs me the wrong way.
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<Xach>
But, it is pretty ok
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<rumbler31>
so the answer seems to be that the authors usage of checkl in the -test.asd means that the correct answer to run tests is to invoke (run-all). Although the output doesn't suggest success or failure on my system. Thanks all
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<rumbler31>
sjl: great documentation on your digraph library btw
<sjl>
thanks
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<rumbler31>
minion: memo for antonv: theoretically, if you wish to send a udp packet to a multicast address, you shouldn't need any more os support. The magic comes when you try to tell the os that you care to receive packets from certain multicast addresses
<minion>
Remembered. I'll tell antonv when he/she/it next speaks.
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<rumbler31>
minion: memo for antonv: there were some patches for ccl on the mailing list long ago that added support for multicast sockets. Sending to multicast addresses *may* *just work* though
<minion>
Remembered. I'll tell antonv when he/she/it next speaks.
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<AeroNotix>
shrdlu68: no idea, I've never used it I was asking a question
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<dim>
AeroNotix: bencmarking consists of using pgloader to load data into PostgreSQL or migrate a whole database from MySQL, the function format-vector-row is called with every single row that's loaded
<dim>
if you have a big'o'CSV file that'd be a nice use-case
<dim>
but anyway, some people had comments earlier on the previous version of the function, that I addressed, and it was good comments ;-)
<AeroNotix>
dim: Yes I know, i was reading before, thought I'd read through it now you've cleaned the code up. Before it was rather unwieldy to read.
<dim>
yeah, exactly ;-)
<dim>
(and to maintain, too)
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<AeroNotix>
dim: does it need to be modified in an in-memory vector rather than streaming directly to file?
<dim>
yes, although I'm wonderting about that again
<dim>
the idea is that we use the high performance COPY protocol of PostgreSQL, which allows streaming data (in and out of the database)
<dim>
the thing is that COPY is (of course) transactional, so any error aborts the whole transaction
<AeroNotix>
yes
<AeroNotix>
just thinking it might be possible to instead directly perform the COPY
<dim>
pgloader works around transaction rollback and replay the good input, rejecting the bad one, so that you can get your data in
<AeroNotix>
instead of creating and messing with in-memory vectors, then streaming it
<dim>
in-memory vectors are used to replay the batches that are rejected by PostgreSQL
<AeroNotix>
ohh, ok. So maybe to retain that feature you can't stream it directly. Might be a good option to provide though :)
<dim>
when that happens we have ready-to-go data in memory, and also we know that the COPY offset reported in the PostgreSQL is the array offset in the batch
<dim>
that's quite a nice property to have, for all it costs
<AeroNotix>
indeed it is
<AeroNotix>
I hate loading shit into pg for it to fail at some point.
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<dim>
now I'm thinking that in the case when you migrate from a source database to PostgreSQL, you don't want any reject file, you'd rather --on-error-stop (the option exists)
<AeroNotix>
possibly
<dim>
and then you either fix your load command (casting rules, mostly), or fix the input database
<dim>
(get rid of bad data, or fix wrong data that you kept unnoticed)
<dim>
so I'm thinking that --on-error-stop should 1. be the default if the source of the data is a database server and 2. make it so that we don't use the in-memory batches at all but rather stream the data to PostgreSQL directly
<dim>
want to see about cooking a patch? ;-)
<AeroNotix>
I've been working all day, just armchair optimizing here :)
<AeroNotix>
tired as anything
<dim>
hehe, fair enough
<AeroNotix>
I've come across pgloader before a few times. Glad to see it's still being worked on.
<dim>
it's my side project... i
<dim>
I'd like for it to be more than a side project, but well
<dim>
well the White Paper has been downloaded some already, which proves interest, and also that's tooling for the Enterprise, not much use at home
<dim>
I'm thinking it's easier to have a function per column
<dim>
I could use #'identity I guess, but I'd be surprised if it came to a benefit in terms of performance
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<AeroNotix>
I was going to mention #'identity. My thinking is that it's part of your inner loop, could be ran quite a lot on a huge input
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<AeroNotix>
depends if you want to micro-optimize :)
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<AeroNotix>
didn't read the whole scrollback but is using a vector like this optimal? Even ignoring what i mentioned before about streaming directly to PG, is it not faster to stream bytes to an in memory buffer instead of writing bytes to vector offsets and incrementing an index?
<shrdlu68>
Sounds like the same thing to me...
<AeroNotix>
except one takes care of things for you regarding where you are in the stream etc.
<dim>
I followed the design of Postmodern here, because it looked good to me and the author looks like he knows what he's doing
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<AeroNotix>
fair enough, I'm more asking questions as well as offering what could help. I've never had to properly optimize a CL program just thinking what works in other languages
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<dim>
I also tried to apply PAIP wisdom, that's when I failed last time
<dim>
now that the code is easier to hack I might try again
<AeroNotix>
hmm, think I hate that book somewhere
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<dim>
next proper step is profiling anyway
<AeroNotix>
cool, will be interesting to see.
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<dim>
yeah, not tonight tho, AFK time I think
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<paule32>
hello
<paule32>
is it possible to get the (defparameter foo-bar (...
<paule32>
foo name?
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<jasom>
paule32: I don't understand the question
<paule32>
as example:
<paule32>
you have a stdin readin function
<paule32>
that can user type data like "this is foo"
<paule32>
now, the question is
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<paule32>
is the name "foo" from the string supportable to get the name of a "defparameter" struct?
<paule32>
i type in "a foo"
<paule32>
and then get the content of (defparameter foo-bar (("1") ("2")))
<AeroNotix>
seems like a mess
<paule32>
or in other words:
<AeroNotix>
paule32: what are you trying to do apart from make a weird stringly typed program
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<paule32>
you have a string: "the car is red"
<paule32>
now, you have the defparameter list "car-table"
<AeroNotix>
where did "-table" come from?
<AeroNotix>
sounds like you want to write a parser/language
<paule32>
yes
<AeroNotix>
But why use defparameter?
<paule32>
better things?
<AeroNotix>
a better option if writing a language "vm" of sorts is have a datastructure to hold the mappings of sub language variables to implementation level objects
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<AeroNotix>
e.g. hash-table is a simple one to implement
<AeroNotix>
rather than trying to generate defparameters from user input, parse the user input and maintain a mapping in a different datastructure and do lookups at the runtime of your program.
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<AeroNotix>
but to answer your question, you could write something horrible with FIND-SYMBOL or something. Have fun
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<paule32>
hehe
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<paule32>
thank you
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<paule32>
(mapcar #'abs '(1 -2 3) => (1 2 3)
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<paule32>
ok
<paule32>
get it
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<mishoo>
anyone else having trouble loading ironclad (via quicklisp) on latest SBCL?
<Bike>
mfiano: if you try (write (make-array 0 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) :readably t) you'll get more specific output.
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<Bike>
and (typep #() '(array (unsigned-byte 8))), straightforwardly enough
<Bike>
er, => NIL
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<shrdlu68>
That, of course, depends on what the reader makes of #()
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<mishoo>
Bike: I kinda agree, on an implementation standpoint, that sets must consider the types of their elements. but IMO an empty set should be the same as an empty set.
<shrdlu68>
The point, I think, was that Ironclad could not be faulting for receiving a zero-length octet vector where it expects an octet vector of any length.
<mishoo>
alright, arrays. an empty array of any type should pass type-checking for (array-of-certain-type)
<shrdlu68>
Bike: I see, in that case the results are unambiguous.
<Bike>
it's not receiving a zero length octet vector, it's receiving a zero length T vector, and these are distinct objects
<pagnol>
paule32, if you prepend an apostrophe ' to a form, the it's treated as data
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<mishoo>
Bike: you're pedantic :) can we agree that (EQ NIL NIL)?
<pagnol>
paule32, in your case you want to call the LIST function with arguments 3, 2, 1
<Bike>
i'm pedantic because i want people to understand why the compiler is complaining.
<Bike>
on that subject, regardless of how you think it should work - and i'm not rejecting your opinion there - the standard is pretty clear that being zero length is not a factor here.
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<pagnol>
paule32, you also probably want to look up what MAPCAR actually does
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<paule32>
pagnol: ok, but always nil
<mishoo>
well to sum it up, I'd just like ironclad to load here. I'll look tomorrow for possible fixes.
<Bike>
Replace #() with #.(make-array 0 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8))
<Bike>
i will be the first to admit this is super ugly
<mishoo>
... and get that patch in, and wait for a new QL distro
<mishoo>
but that's not the issue
<mishoo>
I do believe SBCL should be more forgiving about this case
<mishoo>
an empty array should pass element type-checking
<Shinmera>
No
<Bike>
that would violate the standard.
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<shrdlu68>
The compiler is telling mishoo that an object which prints as "#()" is not of type (simple-array (unsigned-byte 8))
<Bike>
because it isn't.
<Bike>
the printer is oversimplifying.
<shrdlu68>
Yes, we're in agreement.
<mishoo>
possibly the only issue is that you can *modify* an array, even when empty
<pagnol>
paule32, as I said, EQ is fore object identity
<mishoo>
but as far as I can tell, #() is decided ad read-time
<shrdlu68>
What we don't seem to be in agreement over is whether that object could be a zero-length octet vector.
<Bike>
the issue is that arrays of different specializations can be completely different kinds of objects. for example it would be fine for sbcl to store the length of a ub8 vector at a different place from the length of a t vector. then it could compile code that's known to get an ub8 vector (like this) to use the first offset and not check to see if it has to use the second.
<Bike>
for example.
<pagnol>
paule32, I'm sure if you open a repl and play around with mapcar and eq/equalp a little, you will find the mistake yourself
<paule32>
ok
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<pfdietz_>
And then there's NIL element type arrays. :)
<shrdlu68>
Looking at the source, there's actually "#()" there. Yeah, that's bound to get flagged by the compiler.
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<mishoo>
okay, we at least established that it's not some weird thing happening on my machine only, but a legitimate error from SBCL (surprised no one else complained thus far)
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<shrdlu68>
mishoo: Why did you link to glv2/ironclad? Contemporary ironclad use sharplispers/ironclad.
<mishoo>
just googled, but let me see the other version
<mishoo>
I feel SBCL could be smarter about this, because #(...) is consed at read-time
<mishoo>
if it has length zero then it should pass the type-check
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<shrdlu68>
Then it would be too smart for its own good.
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