<azonenberg>
Got busy and didnt have time to do any work today... hoping to do a test of slow-etching copper (for better repeatability) tomorrow
<bart416>
So alive on this beautifull afternoon azonenberg ?
<azonenberg_work>
Lol, yep
<azonenberg_work>
But it's 0800 for me
<azonenberg_work>
just got in to the office :p
<bart416>
:D
<bart416>
I'm halfway through my ARM Sitara technical documents!
<azonenberg_work>
Yay lol
<bart416>
Also, I was thinking
<bart416>
Can you evaporate copper on paper?
<azonenberg_work>
I dont think paper is UHV compatible
<azonenberg_work>
It'd probably outgas
<azonenberg_work>
also, the metal vapor is quite hot
<azonenberg_work>
the surface has to be able to handle what's quite literally boiling metal condensing on it
<bart416>
yeah but it's not much
<azonenberg_work>
It won't burn, due to lack of air, but might char
<bart416>
yeah
<azonenberg_work>
and in the process contaminate your chamber
<bart416>
that's what I'm worrying about
<bart416>
If it would only char it'd be perfect
<azonenberg_work>
All of the pyrolysis products would make a huge mess though
<bart416>
yeah, again that's my worry
<bart416>
But it solves the hard to get rid off polymer
<bart416>
Though using glass as substrate would also be nice
<bart416>
Going to see if I can use the materials lab at college
<bart416>
If I do I could also use the xray equipment to test the result
<azonenberg_work>
What exacly is your goal?
<bart416>
to make a multi layer pcb
<bart416>
heh
<azonenberg_work>
on paper?
<bart416>
Was just considering paper for the simple reason that it's easy to chemically remove
<azonenberg_work>
Hmm
<azonenberg_work>
What about your ILD?
<azonenberg_work>
You could use blank FR4 as the substrate if its vacuum compatible (dont think it is though)
<bart416>
What the hell do you mean by ILD
<bart416>
I've been trying to figure that out for days
<bart416>
We're not big on acronyms in non-English speaking countries
<azonenberg_work>
inter-layer dielectric
<bart416>
SU-8
<bart416>
I looked up the properties further
<bart416>
It's perfect for this
<bart416>
Can do thick layers
<bart416>
good mechanical and chemical properties
<azonenberg_work>
So you want to do su-8 on paper?
<azonenberg_work>
Why not silicon
<azonenberg_work>
get a cheap solar wafer, $50 per 25 pack on ebay
<azonenberg_work>
put down one layer of su-8 over that
<azonenberg_work>
And do you have what it takes to develop/coat it?
<azonenberg_work>
And do you have a source for it?
<bart416>
I just need a substrate that I can dispose of after I'm done
<azonenberg_work>
I've never heard of an amateur attempting it
<bart416>
SU-8 can be done by standard contact lithography equipment
<azonenberg_work>
What i mean is, can you get hold of it and the developer?
<bart416>
Through college, sure :|
<bart416>
I've placed weirder orders for chemicals than that :S
<azonenberg_work>
Lol
<bart416>
Would be amazed if I couldn't get it
<azonenberg_work>
I see
<bart416>
Ever ordered a large canister of liquid oxygen and a bag of KNO3 on the same day?
<azonenberg_work>
Um... nope
<bart416>
I did :P
<azonenberg_work>
My school is a little skittish about letting students get access to stuff
<azonenberg_work>
most i was ever offered was some NaOH crystals
<bart416>
Heh
<bart416>
As long as the cost isn't too high they don't care
<bart416>
If it's cheap they won't even charge you
<azonenberg_work>
you can do an lot in a lab but they dont like you sneaking it out
<bart416>
Like if you need a few cheap transistors or some cheap chemicals (like developer for more common photoresist for pcb etching) they'll just give it to you the next day most of the time
<bart416>
And if you ask for the cost "nevermind"
<azonenberg_work>
lol nice
<bart416>
Though larger things like a scope or power supply are harder to get through the paperstack (you get college discount eh :P )
<bart416>
But it happens
<azonenberg_work>
lol nice
<bart416>
Most expensive thing somebody got through was an 8000 euro R&S scope
<bart416>
somebody tried an even more expensive scope once but got busted by taxes :(
<azonenberg_work>
around 900 USD after educational discount
<bart416>
I'm looking at picking up the 50 MHz rigol
<bart416>
and unlocking it
<azonenberg_work>
the MSO or just the analog capture?
<azonenberg_work>
this one has 16 digital inputs
<bart416>
analog
<bart416>
I just think it's not worth it
<bart416>
If I were to get a mixed signal I'd pay 200 USD more and get the agilent
<azonenberg_work>
i see
<bart416>
Just a matter of reliability
<bart416>
But actually going to wait until rigol responds to my inquiry
<bart416>
and until after the flea market :P
<azonenberg_work>
i see
<bart416>
It's just if you can get an agilent for $200 more, on $1000 it's not going to matter
<bart416>
especially with the current exchange rates
<bart416>
+ don't you do anything except messing with electronics?
<bart416>
pokes azonenberg and wonders where he gets the $1000 USD budget
<azonenberg_work>
Nope, i dont really :P
<azonenberg_work>
Well, that and coding
<azonenberg_work>
but that doesnt need hardware
<azonenberg_work>
And re budget, i finally got paid for the summer :P
<azonenberg_work>
and i need an oscilloscope so i figured, why not
<bart416>
Heh
<bart416>
Then again, I probably earned more than you during the summer, just sucks that I have to blow it all on things cause my parents turned greedy >_>
<bart416>
Also SU-8 has adhession problems to glass
<azonenberg_work>
lol i see
<azonenberg_work>
Hmm
<azonenberg_work>
Can you use a thin adhesion layer of something else?
<azonenberg_work>
I mean, HMDS might work for starters
<bart416>
Yeah they suggest it in the brochure
<bart416>
Also 1mm of SU-8 will survive 40 kV :P
<bart416>
(Atleast)
<azonenberg_work>
Nice
<bart416>
I have a feeling it'll do for PCB design :')
<bart416>
Density is a bit higher than water
<bart416>
And doesn't start to degrade until about 350°C
<azonenberg_work>
Nice
<azonenberg_work>
Did i add you to the googlecode page yet btw?
<azonenberg_work>
*user list
<azonenberg_work>
if not, PM me your google code email and i'll set you up with access for wiki etc so you can document your work when you actually start running experiments
<bart416>
I'll first see if it's financially viable
<bart416>
Nobody publishes the price of SU-8
<bart416>
So I'm starting to have fears
<bart416>
They suggest AP300
<bart416>
Have you tried that azonenberg ?
<bart416>
The main problem would actually be the top and bottom surface
<bart416>
Though I guess using normal resist for this wouldn't be much of a problem
<bart416>
cross linked SU-8 is fairly resistant to acetone anyway