<Laurenceb> hi
<Laurenceb> didnt know there was a channel for this :P
<Laurenceb> i was thinking about how it might be possible to make a small chip fab for rapid prototyping
<Laurenceb> has anyone looked at colloidal microjets?
<azonenberg> Laurenceb: Not that I know of
<azonenberg> My current focus is MEMS
<Laurenceb> yeah
<azonenberg> I have a 20 micron photolithography process working decently well and am in the process of working out some yield issues in a tantalum oxide hardmask
<azonenberg> to be used for KOH wet etch
<Laurenceb> wow
<Laurenceb> i was interested in the possiblility of avoiding masks
<azonenberg> Hoping to have the body of a comb drive (i.e. minus metal layers) by end of summer
<Laurenceb> and directly printing
<azonenberg> Direct write is interesting but wont get you good resolution
<Laurenceb> colloidal microjets can get very small
<azonenberg> On say a 600dpi laser printer your lambda (smallest addressible pixel size) is around 42 microns
<azonenberg> and your design rule is normally 4-5 pixels
<azonenberg> I do 10x or 40x optical reduction on that to get either a 20 or 5 micron design rule
<Laurenceb> yeah, i was thinking build from scratch
<Laurenceb> thats impressive stuff
<azonenberg> Photolithography is the de facto standard method for a reason :P
<azonenberg> If you want to avoid masks you're better off using maskless lithography of some sort
<azonenberg> meaning e-beam or (more affordable) laser direct write
<Laurenceb> hmm yeah
<Laurenceb> ion implantation looks promising
<azonenberg> I actually was going to use diffusion
<azonenberg> Emulsitone sells spin coatable solutions of dopants
<azonenberg> I would deposit those over a photoresist film and pattern by liftoff (or deposit under followed by an HF wet etch)
<azonenberg> then diffuse in a furnace
<Laurenceb> wow http://www.mtixtl.com is cheap
<Laurenceb> didnt realise bare wafers were affordable
<azonenberg> Yes, MTI is my main supplier for a lot of stuff
<azonenberg> Not sure if this is where you found it or not, but i'm building a list of vendors on the googlecode site
<Laurenceb> yeah i saw
<azonenberg> I also have my lab notes in the repository
<azonenberg> http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/ is where i upload photos from lab sessions
<azonenberg> Most of these are unmagnified or through one of my light microscopes but i did get two sessions on a SEM on campus to help debug a yield problem
<Laurenceb> looks a bit messy
<Laurenceb> ^whats that showing?
<kristianpaul> hi Laurenceb
<Laurenceb> hi
<azonenberg> Let's see, die F6...
<azonenberg> Dark gray background is silicon
<azonenberg> Lighter gray is tantalum chloride (Emulsitone Tantalumfilm, which would, later in processing, be baked to oxidize it into tantalum oxide to be used as a hardmask)
<azonenberg> The white particles on the background are also under the tantalum layer, causing serious cracking which was destroying my yields for a while
<azonenberg> The SEM imaging session was intended to diagnose the source of the cracks
<azonenberg> I eventually traced it to silicon dust left over from cleaving the wafer into indididual dies
<azonenberg> I had done an RCA clean on some of the dies, which didnt seem to make a difference, so i had ruled out chemical contamination
<azonenberg> But large (micron or more) particulates wont be removed by an RCA clean
<azonenberg> And i knew there were too many to be room dust
<azonenberg> I finally identified the contaminant when EDS on a contaminated area showed nothing but silicon
<azonenberg> I had initially thought it wasnt sensitive enough to pick up the contaminant
<azonenberg> then i realized the contaminant might actually BE silicon
<Laurenceb> ESD?
<Laurenceb> i mean eds
<azonenberg> Energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy
<Laurenceb> ah
<azonenberg> You hit the sample with an electron beam like in imaging, but you read x-rays coming off the sample
<Laurenceb> so those cracks are due to the dust?
<azonenberg> The electrons in the atoms are excited and then drop down to a lower energy level, fluorescing in the process
<azonenberg> by measuring the x-ray energy level you can identify elements (but not compounds)
<azonenberg> And correct
<azonenberg> The coating is made by depositing tantalum chloride dissolved in ethanol by spin coating
<azonenberg> As it dries, it cracks alogn the edges of the particle
<Laurenceb> i see
<azonenberg> Re EDS here's a sample result from the next day's session http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-07-11/die_f6/eds04.htm
<Laurenceb> what are the probes for?
<azonenberg> The guy who runs the electron microscopy lab at my school is very supportive of my work and is willing to give me a few hours of scope time here and there for free :)
<azonenberg> And even if i need more, its only $45 an hour which i can afford (as compared to almost $200/hr for the nice Zeiss in the cleanroom, which i clearly cant afford :P )
<azonenberg> The probes are for doing testing of finished devices
<azonenberg> i dont have a wire bonder
<azonenberg> I do, however, have a wentworth labs probing station and a couple of micropositioners
<azonenberg> This is me practicing by hitting a test point on the side of a small surface mount part (the copper or gold pad the right-hand probe is hitting is about 25 microns square) http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/pictures/2011/July/7-12-2011%20-%20LGA/S7301366.JPG
<Laurenceb> are there spin coater photos?
<azonenberg> Not sure if i have any of the current one uploaded
<azonenberg> It's a sanding wheel mounted on top of an electric drill
<azonenberg> Kinda bulky but works
<azonenberg> I plan to shrink it significantly and make one built on a CPU fan
<azonenberg> intended for single dies rather than whole wafers
<azonenberg> I'm also planning to build a small fume hood for doing coating, etching, and similar stuff in
<azonenberg> basically a 1x2x2 foot plastic box with an opening in the front and a fan on top
<azonenberg> Either venting outside or through an activated charcoal filter, details TBD
<azonenberg> Plans will be uploaded as soon as i actually have some time to work on the design
<azonenberg> Re spin coater, http://i.imgur.com/15JiV.jpg is a shot of my current one (slightly older)
<azonenberg> The wafer on top isnt mine, its a random 4-inch a friend got off ebay to use as a mechanical dummy
<azonenberg> But as you can see the coater is capable of handling a full 4-inch wafer
<azonenberg> Its mounted by double sided tape
<azonenberg> At the time i took this photo i was using a glass bell jar as a spatter shield, note the circular photoresist drip pattern on the base
<azonenberg> Since then i've switched to a cardboard lip stapled around the sides of the base
<azonenberg> it lets me easily reach onto the chuck to drip more solution onto a spinning wafer without risking a change of shirt color :P
<Laurenceb> interesting
<azonenberg> Heading out to work (a bit late as is), if you have any further questions leave them here and i'll respond this afternoon
<Laurenceb> i dont understand spin coating
<Laurenceb> ok
<azonenberg_work> So I've arranged access to a vacuum evaporator on campus
<azonenberg_work> I'll be evaporating around 100nm of copper onto some microscope slides as a test
<azonenberg_work> Half of them will have PR already on them (lift-off process)
<azonenberg_work> and the other half will be uncoated (to be patterned by etching)
<azonenberg_work> Then i'll etch them in SC2 and lift the other ones off in acetone
<azonenberg_work> See what kind of resolutions i can hit
<azonenberg_work> On the menu for tonight... sample prep for my evaporation session plus another experiment using thinner photoresist layers
<Laurenceb_> hi
<Laurenceb_> i guess i dont understand CMOS very well, does there have to be a intermediate metal layer between the aluminium and the silicon?
<azonenberg_work> Laurenceb_: Do you mean for transistor contacts?
<azonenberg_work> Or for wiring at higher levels
<azonenberg_work> There's normally a silicon dioxide dielectric layer between the silicon and any wiring
<Laurenceb_> the transistor contacts
<azonenberg_work> The only time you break it is for vias between wiring layers
<azonenberg_work> Or for transistor contacts
<Laurenceb_> surely for VCC/VSS you need contacts
<azonenberg_work> The gate doesnt actually touch anything, its just floating right above the channel
<Laurenceb_> yeah sure
<azonenberg_work> But yes, for the source/drain you do
<Laurenceb_> how does that work?
<azonenberg_work> I actually havent looked into that yet, I do know that you need to contact the silicon somehow
<azonenberg_work> I also know that if you do it wrong you can form schottky diodes
<azonenberg_work> But i'm actually not sure what the right way is
<Laurenceb_> presumably you need to take off the oxide
<azonenberg_work> Like i said my current work is on basic 2D patterning and MEMS
<azonenberg_work> And native oxide is trivial to strip
<azonenberg_work> 15 sec in dilute HF
<Laurenceb_> interesting
<Laurenceb_> apparently commercially they use polysilicon deppsition?
<Laurenceb_> maybe you could directly PVD onto the silicon with aluminium
<Laurenceb_> in a vacuum after stripping
<azonenberg_work> So they use platinum as the barrier layer before connecting
<azonenberg_work> And poly is used for the gates
<Laurenceb_> ah i see
<azonenberg_work> I would be doing vacuum evaporation, which is a form of PVD
<azonenberg_work> for both metals and poly
<Laurenceb_> yeah
<azonenberg_work> i actually have some Si crystals for evaporation now
<Laurenceb_> ive seem a machine for that
<Laurenceb_> its quite simple really
<azonenberg_work> But i havent built the evaporator itself
<azonenberg_work> I get to play with one on campus on thursday
<Laurenceb_> ive modified one for degassing resin
<azonenberg_work> to metalize some microscope slides (sample substrate) for testing my metal process
<azonenberg_work> The next step would be to buy myself a diffusion pump
<Laurenceb_> is the polysilicon really required?
<azonenberg_work> I could potentially use metal gates as well
<azonenberg_work> But i'd still need an evaporator
<Laurenceb_> there are chemical alu coating techniques
<azonenberg_work> I want to do patterning by liftoff though
<Laurenceb_> i was working with pressure sensors recently
<azonenberg_work> Interesting
<Laurenceb_> they seem quite simple - thin etched layer on a wafer
<azonenberg_work> Yeah
<azonenberg_work> I want to build a comb drive, which is nearly as simple
<Laurenceb_> might be worth a try at making one
<azonenberg_work> one KOH etch into <110> Si and one metal etch
<azonenberg_work> KOH etching is proving painful due to the hardmask not playing nicely
<Laurenceb_> thats the crystal plane direction?
<azonenberg_work> Correct
<azonenberg_work> KOH eats <100> super fast and <110> almost as fast, but <111> almost not at all
<azonenberg_work> very anisotropic
<Laurenceb_> does that mean you can do deep etching ?
<azonenberg_work> In <110> surfaces, the <111> planes are near vertical
<azonenberg_work> So yes
<azonenberg_work> You can get 10:1 aspect ratios or better
<azonenberg_work> With a *wet etch*
<azonenberg_work> Doing that with deep RIE or something is trivial, but thats way beyond my capabilities at home
<azonenberg_work> A wet etch, OTOH, is very feasible
<Laurenceb_> i was looking at micro anemometers for uavs
<azonenberg_work> I've tried several times but in all cases the hardmask was cracked or for whatever reason didnt go where it was supposed to
<azonenberg_work> And very interesting
<Laurenceb_> using hot elements
<azonenberg_work> Measuring airflow by the delta T between one shielded from air and one that isnt?
<Laurenceb_> yes
<Laurenceb_> ive tried it with grain of rice lamps
<azonenberg_work> That sounds like a fairly simple MEMS project
<azonenberg_work> Within reach of a process like this in a year or so
<Laurenceb_> with glass removed
<azonenberg_work> This is exactly the kind of stuff that i want to be able to do
<azonenberg_work> Very simple ICs or MEMS, as one-off prototypes etc
<bart416> azonenberg, I intend to surpass your madness!
<azonenberg_work> bart416: If you get a 350nm fab in your garage send me pics :OP
<azonenberg_work> :P *
<azonenberg_work> Because thats my ultimate goal for 10-20 years out
<azonenberg_work> At least submicron for sure
<bart416> I'm writing up purposal for my master thesis
<bart416> Atomic scale circuits
<bart416> Built using a computer controlled stm
<azonenberg_work> Right now the smallest geometry i've fabbed in anything was 5um (photoresist, not etched into anything)
<azonenberg_work> And 20um is the smallest feature i've done in Si
<bart416> does that surpass your madness,
<azonenberg_work> It's a tie, at least
<azonenberg_work> Let me know how it goes
<bart416> I wonder if such an idea would be approved
<azonenberg_work> How would you test said devices?
<azonenberg_work> Use STM tips as microprobes?
<bart416> Yes
<bart416> An STM shines at this sort of thing
<azonenberg_work> You'd need nanometer scale positioning accuracy for multiple probes
<Laurenceb_> i still like the idea of maskless
<azonenberg_work> Laurenceb_: That's possible but much more difficult
<bart416> yeah, my idea has some flaws in that aspect
<azonenberg_work> bart416: You'd need to probe it under a SEM
<azonenberg_work> Use the SEM to align the probes, then probably turn off the beam to avoid interference from it
<azonenberg_work> Laurenceb_: The best maskless technique i could think of was e-beam direct write
<azonenberg_work> Homebrew a SEM that has maybe micron or slight submicron resolution
<Laurenceb_> still needs resist
<azonenberg_work> Use low accelerating voltage to image the sample and line up the pattern on the wafer to your target
<azonenberg_work> Then turn up to 30 kV and expose
<azonenberg_work> And yes it does
<Laurenceb_> if you could make a nano rpinter...
<azonenberg_work> The only 100% maskless method i looked at is FIB
<bart416> We don't have a SEM at college
<Laurenceb_> colloidal microjects look interesting
<azonenberg_work> Which is sloooow and not cheap
<bart416> I think the university has a few
<azonenberg_work> bart416: Go to a school with that kind of gear
<azonenberg_work> if you can possibly find one
<bart416> Belgian universities/colleges don't have that sort of resources available themselves generally
<bart416> Usually research spin offs do though
<bart416> Or they buy time on private ones as needed
<azonenberg_work> i see
<azonenberg_work> RPI is a bit better funded, i guess
<bart416> How much do you pay per year for college/university?
<azonenberg_work> The cleanroom has a zeiss supra SEM as well as a FIB
<azonenberg_work> And an AFM
<azonenberg_work> The mat sci department has a TEM, a FESEM, another SEM, and i think maybe an STM
<azonenberg_work> And hmm
<azonenberg_work> Before scholarships etc i think the cost of attendance (tuition + room and board) is around $50k / yr
<bart416> If they have a AFM they most likely have an STM as well
<bart416> STMS are cheaper
<azonenberg_work> I paid much less than that
<bart416> By law it's set to about 550 euro / year here ;)
<azonenberg_work> And now that i'm a grad student i get free tuition + stipend... yay teaching assistantships
<bart416> There are a few private universities but those are for humanities
<bart416> Not sciences
<azonenberg_work> I see
<azonenberg_work> RPI is the oldest engineering school in the USA... they've been around for a while :)
<Laurenceb_> RPI?
<Laurenceb_> thats some crazy tuition fees
<bart416> Laurenceb, exactly
<bart416> The tuition fees for 10 students of theirs are probably more than the budget the electronics department at our college gets for research and equipment >_>
<azonenberg_work> Laurenceb_: The school president is also getting rich off our tuition :(
<azonenberg_work> She makes like 1.5M USD a year
<Laurenceb_> i graduated 2 years ago and owed UKP20K
<azonenberg_work> Whats that in USD?
<bart416> I'll graduate in 2 years assuming I stay here and I'll owe nobody anything
<azonenberg_work> bart416: I dont actually owe much due to scholarships etc
<azonenberg_work> But on paper the tuition is still insanely high
<bart416> Due to me being lazy in highschool it's near impossible to get scholarships :(
<azonenberg_work> i see
<bart416> + my father alone already earns too much for me to be able to apply to a government scholarship as well
<bart416> And a NCO doesn't earn that much...
<azonenberg_work> I see
<Laurenceb_> about 14 or something
<azonenberg_work> Well in any case, homebrew is always cheaper than buying this kind of stuff commercially
<azonenberg_work> I'm just using their resources because they're available, and with the intention of it being temporary
<azonenberg_work> test on their unit, then build a version of my own
<bart416> heh
<azonenberg_work> And then document how i did it so people without these opportunities can build straight off my lab notes
<Laurenceb_> i dont see why FIB is impractical for this sort of stuff
<Laurenceb_> but you cant FIB conductors
<azonenberg_work> Laurenceb_: It's possible
<azonenberg_work> Just very slow
<azonenberg_work> You can, actually
<azonenberg_work> Two ways
<azonenberg_work> First is subtractive - sputter/evaporate the metal and then use the ion beam to cut traces out of the background
<azonenberg_work> Second is additive
<azonenberg_work> I dont fully understand the process but i recall it being something like targeted sputtering
<azonenberg_work> the ion beam hits a chunk of (say) tungsten or platinum
<Laurenceb_> dont you need really powerful beam for cutting?
<Laurenceb_> the targeted spluttering sounds sane
<bart416> Depends on the thickness of the material
<azonenberg_work> then sends those atoms flying at high speed into your substrate, where they stick
<azonenberg_work> I know its done
<azonenberg_work> And our FIB is capable of both additive and subtractive machining
<azonenberg_work> But its normally waaaay too slow to be of much use for anything big
<azonenberg_work> Its main use is thinning of samples for TEM
<Laurenceb_> it doesnt sound completely impractical to build
<azonenberg_work> Or for failure analysis
<Laurenceb_> or for prototyping
<azonenberg_work> FIB for prototyping would be as slow as ebeam
<azonenberg_work> if not more
<Laurenceb_> depends what you are making i guess
<azonenberg_work> Yeah
<azonenberg_work> I still like mask lithography
<azonenberg_work> But i want to use laser direct write for making the masks
<bart416> All a FIB really is is a particle accelerator
<azonenberg_work> right now i'm doing printing onto a transparency
<azonenberg_work> bart416: Not just
<bart416> the basic form of it is
<azonenberg_work> A particle accelerator plus the ability to aim the beam precisely :P
<Laurenceb_> i have a laser galvo off ebay
<Laurenceb_> but its analogue
<bart416> I wonde rif you could hijack the electron cannon of a TV for this sort of thing
<bart416> use an ion source instead of an electron source
<azonenberg_work> I was actually considering using an electron gun for my homebrew SEM
<azonenberg_work> But thats a year or more out
<azonenberg_work> i want to get most of the fab worked out by then
<Laurenceb_> i guess you could have a two axis mechanical rig then an electrostatic or magnetic two or single axis ion beam
<Laurenceb_> for fine detail
<azonenberg_work> Move the stage for coarse stuff
<azonenberg_work> then beam shift for fine
<Laurenceb_> yes
<azonenberg_work> Thats how SEMs do it too
<Laurenceb_> my origional idea for maskless was wet process using colloidal microjet
<Laurenceb_> you can get to crazy small droplet sizes
<bart416> You could use a pulsed laser maybe?
<bart416> With a kerr lens
<azonenberg_work> bart416: I want to do laser but not for maskless litho
<azonenberg_work> It would be for generating the mask
<azonenberg_work> sputter a microscope slide in a few hundred nm of metal
<Laurenceb_> but youd still need a way to metal coat
<azonenberg_work> Laurenceb_: Evaporation
<Laurenceb_> - with microjet
<Laurenceb_> yeah but then you need vaccuum
<azonenberg_work> You'd need that for a lot of processes
<bart416> yeah, but you can use the laser through the glass of the vaccuum chamber if you make it well
<azonenberg_work> And the problem with microjet is that you cant do anything that isnt soluble in a compatible liquid
<azonenberg_work> bart416: You misunderstand
<azonenberg_work> Coat the sample in metal, then remove from vacuum
<azonenberg_work> spin coat in photoresist
<azonenberg_work> and use a UV laser to expose the resist
<bart416> You could also do that
<azonenberg_work> Then develop and etch
<azonenberg_work> and use the result as a contact mask
<Laurenceb_> i saw some ideas about using 'nanoparticles'/dust in a carrier liquid
<Laurenceb_> then sintering/diffusing
<Laurenceb_> cant see it working well with Al
<Laurenceb_> chemical plating with two liquids might work
<azonenberg_work> Hmm
<azonenberg_work> Well, Al is being phased out due to higher resistance
<azonenberg_work> Modern ICs are moving toward Cu, which has its own set of problems
<azonenberg_work> the most obvious being that Cu diffuses into Si and disrupts PN junctions
<azonenberg_work> so you need a barrier metal
<azonenberg_work> usually its not even a metal, i've heard TiN (a ceramic) is commonly used
<azonenberg_work> just a few nm to prevent diffusion
<Laurenceb_> eww
<Laurenceb_> i dont think its worth trying to emulate the state of the art
<azonenberg_work> I'm not recommending it, just saying Al isnt the only option
<bart416> Can't you use SiO2 as barrier?
<azonenberg_work> bart416: No
<azonenberg_work> a) you need metal-to-Si contacts, the barrier between them has to be conductive
<bart416> ah
<azonenberg_work> b) metal ions diffuse through SiO2
<bart416> You meant contacts themselves
<azonenberg_work> And the barrier has to completely surround the wire
<azonenberg_work> Normally you do a dual damascene process
<azonenberg_work> Etch trace outlines into SiO2
<azonenberg_work> Sputter with barrier
<azonenberg_work> Then fill with copper
<Laurenceb_> ^thats good
<azonenberg_work> CMP down until you've removed all of the Cu/barrier from the raised areas
<azonenberg_work> and are down to the SiO2 with stuff inside
<azonenberg_work> Then you do a second barrier sputter, one last CMP
<bart416> Copper diffuses through glass?
<azonenberg_work> and then deposit dielectric for the next layer
<bart416> mhhh
<azonenberg_work> bart416: Apparently
<bart416> you wouldn't guess that
<azonenberg_work> Nope
<azonenberg_work> My guess is it was discovered by experiment :P
<azonenberg_work> chips werent working
<azonenberg_work> then they analyzed them and found Cu in the silicon
<azonenberg_work> only way it could have gotten there is through the glass
<bart416> must depend on the thickness of the glass I guess
<Laurenceb_> polishing sounds tricky
<bart416> how so?
<bart416> That sounds like the easy part
<Laurenceb_> to uniform thickness over a large area?
<azonenberg_work> Laurenceb_: CMP isnt that bad if you have an optical flat to work with
<bart416> semiconductor large?
<bart416> Not really that hard
<azonenberg_work> bart416: 12-inch wafer large
<bart416> mhhh, that's more problematic
<azonenberg_work> to uniform thickness within a few nm
<azonenberg_work> Yeah, it gets tricky :P
<bart416> if it's only a small area just use a fast object
<bart416> *fast spinning
<bart416> anything would do
<azonenberg_work> bart416: They usually use random orbitals on a polishing pad mounted over an optical flat
<bart416> I'd try a laser again
<bart416> Just cause I can
<bart416> lol
<bart416> a high power CO2 laser
<bart416> Have the beam graze the wafer
<Laurenceb_> that would never work
<bart416> Actually it should
<bart416> If you spin the wafer
<azonenberg_work> lol i dont think it would
<azonenberg_work> You're polishing to deep sub-wavelength levels
<azonenberg_work> The wafers i have are flat to 5 angstroms
<Laurenceb_> co2 is what? 10um
<bart416> you're assuming a perfect beam :P
<bart416> Industrial cutting lasers are far from that :(
<azonenberg_work> Lol
<Laurenceb_> whats usually used as the insulation between metal layers?
<azonenberg_work> Laurenceb_: SiO2
<azonenberg_work> It can be deposited by several methods
<azonenberg_work> Sputtering (rare but not unheard of)
<bart416> Sputtering glass seems rather problematic
<azonenberg_work> PECVD, usually of SiH4 (most common but requires complex equipment and toxic gases)
<azonenberg_work> And sol-gel
<azonenberg_work> spin coating liquid precursors
<azonenberg_work> Which is what i plan to do
<Laurenceb_> wonder if you could use polymers
<bart416> polymers might be hard to etch with conventional methods
<azonenberg_work> bart416: The problem with polymers is that they're often removable by two methods
<azonenberg_work> a) organic solvents
<azonenberg_work> b) strong oxidizing acids
<azonenberg_work> Unfortunately, both will also remove photoresist
<bart416> hence, problematic with conventional methods :P
<azonenberg_work> Yep
<Laurenceb_> FIB only kind of fails if you want insulating layers on the top
<bart416> You could try using heat to kill the polymer
<bart416> instead of chemical reactions
<bart416> expose it to short bursts of IR that are blocked by the photoresist of choice
<Laurenceb_> microjet sol-gel printing :P
<Laurenceb_> interesting idea.. sort of selective laser ablation
<bart416> stop thinking conventional, it's more fun to try something new for this sort of projects
<Laurenceb_> thats exactly what im doing
<Laurenceb_> id like to make it maskless and avoid spin coating etc etc
<Laurenceb_> i guess vaccuum pumps are a pita too
<Laurenceb_> if you could have maybe a two axis stage that prints onto the wafer, and no vacuum itd be amazing
<Laurenceb_> is it possible to do diffusion out of a vacuum?
<Laurenceb_> actually jero ellsworth did it in nitrogen
<Laurenceb_> i wonder how bad splattering would be with a microjet
<Laurenceb_> you can get droplets up to tens of Km/s with those things O_o
<bart416> you can do sputtering outside a vacuum, diffusion might be a bit tricky
<bart416> Maybe with some noble gas
<Laurenceb_> not if you deposit onto the surface
<Laurenceb_> you just heat to a few hundered C
<bart416> you want an even coating right?
<Laurenceb_> eyes on the screen guys, eyes on the screen
<bart416> Too busy with complicated theoretical physics and shapes that I can't physically represent :(
<Laurenceb_> i cant believe it works with conductive epoxy
<azonenberg> Laurenceb_: Photoresist for ablation doesnt seem necessary
<azonenberg> Just do laser hits
<azonenberg> Also, sputtering is normally done at low pressure but its not hard vacuum
<azonenberg> pump down to 20 mtorr then sputter at 50-100
<Laurenceb_> zzz
<SolidRaven> azonenberg, you don't even need to go that low
<azonenberg> SolidRaven: Agreed
<azonenberg> This is just how i've usually seen it done
<azonenberg> and i meant 30, not 20
<SolidRaven> Doesn't matter that much :P
<SolidRaven> The thing is, you could theoretically sputter coat at atmospheric pressure
<azonenberg> Its just less efficient iirc
<azonenberg> But i'd still need inert gas
<azonenberg> And it'd take forever
<SolidRaven> Maybe you should use an oversized tesla coil to create the electric field?
<SolidRaven> Its dangerous, it looks cool
<SolidRaven> And it's insane enough that it might just work!
<azonenberg> Lol