<lundman>
ok I wasnt sure. not many care about crypto :)
<Turl>
can't open /tmp/spl-log.... for dump: -30
<lundman>
seems to be in hold l2cache
<lundman>
fails on import? you could import with -N
<Turl>
it fails on boot, idk what is it doing
<Turl>
what does N do?
<lundman>
import pool without mounting anything
<Turl>
"sudo zpool --help" makes it crash
<lundman>
but that is after the panic yes?
<lundman>
rc11? rc12?
<Turl>
booting with init=/bin/bash
<Turl>
and "zpool -N"
<Turl>
makes it crash
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<lundman>
yeah so it is the pool import
<lundman>
amusing, Sun has a patch for it
<Turl>
I see zvol_init.. _create_minors, _replay_write, _create_minor, spa_open_common, _load_best, spa_activate, spa_load, zap_lookup, load_nvlist.isra, spl_debug_bug, spl_debug_dumpstack
<lundman>
so it dies importing the pool due to zvol? you have zvols?
<Turl>
yeah my swap is a zvol
<Turl>
can I disable it somehow?
<lundman>
I feel a little vindicated, but it doesnt help you
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<lundman>
I spent last week arguing with ZOL that -N is ignored for zvols
<lundman>
I can tell you what line to comment out though?
<Turl>
anything that'll get my data back I guess
<lundman>
data isnt lost in anyway, just zvol load code. there are 2 tickets on to fix it as we speak
<Turl>
I took a pic of the full crash, once I get my machine operational I can attach it to whatever ticket you need
<lundman>
well, do you want to wait for them to fix it, in next couple of days, or try commenting out a line of code and see if you can import pool without swap
<Turl>
well, I need to finish a final project for university
<Turl>
and I did a lot of progress today
<Turl>
and of course I didn't back it up
<Turl>
:)
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<Turl>
I can edit whatever code and rebuild with dkms
<lundman>
wicked. we arent doing anything scary, just telling import pool to NOT create the minor dev nodes for zvol
<lundman>
zfs/module/zfs/zfs_ioctl.c
<Turl>
sounds good
<Turl>
got nano running on dual monitor 1080p, what do I edit? :)
<lundman>
zfs_ioc_pool_import: 1314
<lundman>
if (error == 0)
<lundman>
zvol_create_minors(zc->zc_name);
<lundman>
comment that call out (2 lines)
<Turl>
anything else?
<lundman>
nope
<lundman>
compile, rmmod zfs, and insmod
<lundman>
or, reboot
<lundman>
actually you paniced, so reboot required
<Turl>
how do you invoke a build with dkms?
<lundman>
whats a dkms?
<lundman>
I'm kidding, its a package or something
<lundman>
actually
<lundman>
wait
<lundman>
spl.ko has an argument
<lundman>
MODULE_PARM_DESC(zvol_inhibit_dev, "Do not create zvol device nodes");
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<lundman>
yes, just rmmod spl.ko ; insmod spl.ko zvol_inhibit_dev=1
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<lundman>
oh actually, you cant just rmmod spl, you have to "rmmod zpios zfs zcommon zunicode zavl znvpair spl"
<lundman>
luckily that is a separate command "zpool upgrade"
<lundman>
really?
<Turl>
what do I download?
<lundman>
I use the text CD ISO usually
<lundman>
but mount from IPMI and boot.
<lundman>
dont know your hardware though
<Turl>
the first x86 link?
<lundman>
yep
<lundman>
usb is further down on the page
<hno>
odd... building fs/zfs/libzfs.o is clean. But full build shows the error. It's about strict aliasing and that have indeed changed in reporting in later gcc versions.
<lundman>
lets not forget uboot would not accept it with warnings normally. but if there is something I can help with
<Turl>
what do you suggest once I dd it to my pendrive and chainload from grub?
<lundman>
create the ticket so it can be fixed :)
<lundman>
hno: you have to low black on black text
<Turl>
lundman: just booting it will fix the pool?
<lundman>
trul: boot, pick option 6) Root shell, then it will ask if you want to import existing pool on /a
<lundman>
say yes, then check it with zpool status
<lundman>
hno: that is quite a lot of warnings
<hno>
lundman, it's a lot of warnings but all the same. A typecasted pointer in a way not compatible with pointer aliasing rules potentially breaking with optimization enabled.
<lundman>
usually I do "root (cd0); chainloader +1 ; boot
<Turl>
I did set root=(hd2)
<Turl>
chainloader +1
<Turl>
and that gets me invalid signature
<lundman>
your ISO image is on hard disk2 somehow?
<Turl>
on usb drive
<Turl>
hd0 & 1 are internal
<lundman>
not sure you can dd an iso image to usb and boot it as hdd? can you?
<Turl>
usually you can, when they're hybrid images
<Turl>
I guess solaris one isn't
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<rz2k>
the guy who decided to use waf python2 based build system as a default one for glmark2 must be really high. it fails at every step, starting from unacceptable configuration speed on embedded systems, ending with missing option for defining own EGL configuration (what if I dont have pkg-config around?).
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<Turl>
lundman: ok so I burned a dvd and booted into it
<Turl>
I chose 3) shell
<Turl>
but it didn't ask to import
<Turl>
zpool status shows no pools, zpool import shows my pool, zpool status again shows no pools
<Turl>
lundman: "zpool import home" says pool may be in use from another system , -f to import anyway
<Turl>
lundman: is that because it crashed?
<Turl>
lundman: zpool import -f home crashes solaris >.<
<lundman>
back
<lundman>
hah, no way?
<lundman>
guess you could try and see what the fbsd RC does, since it slightly different paths
<lundman>
but that needs some expert insight
<Turl>
so much for a "stable" filesystem >.<
<lundman>
dont suppose "zpool import -o readonly=on" makes any difference
<Turl>
I tried "zpool import -f -N home"
<lundman>
apaprently readonly stops it from trying to reply the transaction logs
<lundman>
*replay
<Turl>
should I use -N still lundman?
<lundman>
sure why not
<lundman>
is it a mirror? raid? single disk pool?
<Turl>
still exploded
<Turl>
HDD, with ZIL and L2ARC on two partitions on a SSD
<lundman>
yeah, create the ticket and I'll chat to brian and see if we can come up with fixes
<Turl>
what should I write on the ticket?
<Turl>
"zfs/spl fails and doesn't wanna import my pool?"
<lundman>
Panic during pool import in load_nvlist
<lundman>
maybe?
<Turl>
against spl or zfs?
<lundman>
zfs
<lundman>
zfs does bad code, caught by the ASSERT, defined in SPL
<Turl>
should I link to all the pictures?
<lundman>
you can, if you dont want to type it in
<lundman>
but its appreciated if you at least give shorthand call stack
<lundman>
great, I will encourage the guys from here
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<rz2k>
ssvb: and yeah, ghash 14806.49k vs. ghash 52904.92k
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<ssvb>
rz2k: -DAES_ASM is the most interesting, because it is used for ssh/scp, but yeah, it's good to see that linaro/ubuntu are the only slowpokes and the other distros are fine :)
<lundman>
:MODULE_PARM_DESC(zfs_recover, "Set to attempt to recov
<lundman>
there sure is
<lundman>
try that
<lundman>
the fbsd kernel has a reputation of being very robust too
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<brooc>
Hi
<brooc>
I am trying to build the kernel using the make commads in the WiKi
<brooc>
For some reason the makefile is using the arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc and not arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc
<brooc>
I went over to the Linaro repository and they only ofer this for download in previous releases
<brooc>
Is there a reason why this is?
<brooc>
And why the makefile assumes arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc is installed?
<brooc>
Should I just make softlinks to all the binaries with the name without hf?
<brooc>
anyone?
<RaYmAn>
use CROSS_COMPILE=your_arm_gcc_prefix
<RaYmAn>
env. variable
<RaYmAn>
e.g. if you wanted to set arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc you'd do CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi-
<brooc>
got it
<brooc>
I now see that was a stupid question
<brooc>
"mkimage" command not found - U-Boot images will not be built
<brooc>
Why am getting this?
<RaYmAn>
you're missing u-boot tools package
<RaYmAn>
it varies what it's called depending on your distribution
<RaYmAn>
uboot-mkimage package on debian
<brooc>
The distribtution of the host or the destination?
<brooc>
I am compiling on Ubuntu
<brooc>
Do I need to install something?
<RaYmAn>
host
<brooc>
Thanks installing
<brooc>
why is this not in the WiKi?
<RaYmAn>
I'm pretty sure it is.
<RaYmAn>
If not, do feel free to add it :P
<RaYmAn>
"why" something is not in the wiki is usually because no one has added it. It's rarely more complicated than that ;)
<brooc>
Where do you think it is? Maybe I am not looking in the right place
<RaYmAn>
I dunno, maybe it's not
<RaYmAn>
Do feel free to add it to linux kernel page
<brooc>
Just did
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<Gumboot>
Hang about... what's this AES talk, here?
<Gumboot>
ssvb: What has Ubuntu done wrong?
<rz2k>
Gumboot: they build openssl softfloat on linaro armhf rootfs
<rz2k>
key word is armhf
<Gumboot>
How'd they manage that?
<rz2k>
no idea
<Gumboot>
What kind of softfloat? Just the ABI, or complete removal of floating-point instructions?
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<Gumboot>
For just the ABI I've never seen such huge performance differences. Is that actually NEON versus scalar, then?
<Gumboot>
There's a #linaro channel on this network if you want to ping them.
<brooc>
For development purposes would anyone use MK802?
<rm>
development of what
<rm>
and "for", or just "on" the mk802
<brooc>
just on
<brooc>
Development of kernel and uboot
<mnemoc>
RaYmAn: my chromebook was totally ignored by the customs :p took a bit longer but ended up getting it for 220E :)
<rm>
brooc, no
<rm>
first, do you expect to compile stuff right on the SD card?
<rm>
Mele A1000/A2000 at least have a SATA slot
<rm>
second, a slow CPU
<rm>
you would really fare better by getting a cross-compile environment going on a N-core x86 box
<rm>
where's the fun in development when each compile takes you 5 hours
<rm>
(vs 15 minutes)
<rz2k>
<Gumboot> What kind of softfloat? Just the ABI, or complete removal of floating-point instructions? - see compiling options yourself http://linux-sunxi.org/Benchmarks#Results_2 first is linaro-alip, second is archlinux-arm
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<brooc>
rm, I intend to compile on my linux PC
<brooc>
not on the dev board itself
<brooc>
I want it just for testing
<jquip>
how does one enable the goodix touchscreen? its a gt811 i think... are all variants merged into the goodix_touch module? I can't seem to find gt811_ts in my compiled modules.. only goodix_touch..
<brooc>
BTW, I want to setup my toolchain for building a simple hello world program for the ARM cortex-A8/9
<brooc>
Want to try and run this on my Android phone
<brooc>
Where can I find a tutorial that walks through the environment setup?
<rz2k>
android has own libc
<rz2k>
you cant do that, afaik.
<brooc>
Will opening a terminal on the device wont work?
<brooc>
Well then I'll try it on qemu
<brooc>
rz2k, what do you think of using the MK802 as dev board?
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<rz2k>
brooc: that differs on definition of devboard for you
<brooc>
What do you mean?
<brooc>
I am looking to develope kernel and uboot for the sunxi
<rz2k>
I suggest you a cubieboard because all pins are exposed there
<rz2k>
on mk802 you will suffer with soldering UART to tiny pins and etc.
<RaYmAn>
mnemoc: nice! :)
<brooc>
I realize that, but the problem is that the Cubieboard is not being sold
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<rz2k>
you can go for mele a2000
<RaYmAn>
if you really don't care about hardware, stability, pins etc, going for whatever is the cheapest a10 device is probably a good idea
<rz2k>
it has UART exposed on pinheader and JTAG can be accessed thru SD card slot hack (ask hno)
<RaYmAn>
=P
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<brooc>
the mele a2000 is too expensive
<brooc>
What is the cheapest a10 device?
<RaYmAn>
I think you can get some for like 50$
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<brooc>
My price range is around 35
<brooc>
like the raspberry pi
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<orly_owl>
will you buy any accessories for the rpi?
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<focus_well>
Anyone got latest A10 pinout details? The pinouts I am looking at on cubieboard http://dl.cubieboard.org/hardware/cubieboard_schematic_2012-08-08.pdf doesn't tally with all the ones on the A10 data sheets I have to hand. Sata in particular not listed on datasheet dated 2012-04-06
<specing>
techn: that ... is... so .... ugly
<L84Supper>
focus_well: the A10 EVB schematics have the same pinout for SATA as the cubieboard
<L84Supper>
probably cut-n-paste
<L84Supper>
is SATA left out of the data sheets due to incompetence or was it intentionally left out along with many other sections?
<focus_well>
L84Supper: I search the evaluation board cd - A10 user manual has exactly 1 mention of the word "sata"!!! WTF???
<focus_well>
495 pages!!!
<L84Supper>
focus_well: yes, welcome to dealing with allwinner
<L84Supper>
their motto should be " Hey, but it's only $7, what do you expect?"
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<focus_well>
L84Supper: I'm looking at the evaluation board schematics - its similar to cubie's mentions the sata pins, and it could be reverse engineered to get a pinout of the A10
<focus_well>
what a load of cobbers!!
<focus_well>
cobblers even!
<L84Supper>
focus_well: the design philosophy might be "if it works, it works"
<L84Supper>
who knows what their goal actually was
<focus_well>
These SoC vendors cut their own throats by not publishing datasheets . No datasheet, no product, no sale of chips = die quickly!!
<mnemoc>
they are also "pcb design house" and "software integration house"
<L84Supper>
cram the ip blocks into the design, do half assed job of clock and power distribution, tape out, hope for the best
<mnemoc>
by limiting software and documentation they promote their other business within china borders
<L84Supper>
focus_well: allwinner already made their $$ on the a10, they are off to the next gen device already
<L84Supper>
they just sell a BOM + schematics, a reference layout, they don't even have customers that would know what to do with a complete data sheet
<L84Supper>
I expect no more from them on the next gen part
* mnemoc
has a very bad feeling about sun6i's GPL sources availability
<L84Supper>
they sold millions of a10's and nobody needed complete specs to make crappy tablets
<focus_well>
I'm looking at the evaluation board - its full of crap design and excess components - the excess components taking care of bad design - doh!!
<mnemoc>
also consider they aim at crappy factories
<L84Supper>
fine for monkey see, monkey do manufacturing, if it works, don't fix it
<mnemoc>
so maybe a better design would lead to more bad boards
<L84Supper>
they are already on the next gen device, they sell more based on their low price, not on their docs
<mnemoc>
i've been asking them to buy a sun6i devkit for months... they don't even reply now :|
<L84Supper>
it was an SOC designed for products with a 1 year life
<L84Supper>
and if your a10 tablet doesn't die soon, you probably won't want it next year anyway or might not be able to upgrade to a later version of Android
<focus_well>
If any of us make money we should make our own SoC and open source it - put an end to this miserable perverts who value NDAs above chip sales
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<focus_well>
got to go - talk later
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<rz2k>
I finally got myself to test xserver 1.13+ xf86-video-mali and fixed probably everything, linux-sunxi repo for xf86-video-mali is updated.
<rz2k>
I've checked on Linaro-alip and ArchLinux-ARM 1.11.x and 1.13+ xservers accordingly
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<WarheadsSE>
woo, decent drivers soon :)
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<Turl>
lundman: ping
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<WarheadsSE>
I look forward to xorg-server 1.13 compatible A10 mali drivers
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<focus_it>
L84Supper: I love Allwinner and their A10. I just want them to keep on succeeding. Their chips are the cheapest
<focus_it>
and their demand is endless - mostly for Android which is why they can't service other customers.
<focus_it>
If I try to buy a chip at same price in EU or US, I get low power good for nothing chips at that price.
<focus_it>
The EU and US chip makers live in the past.
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<focus_it>
The only thing they have going is the reliability of the supply chain.
<focus_it>
In EU and US, but not the performance for the same price.
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<focus_it>
mnemoc: to get datasheets, and more interest out of Allwinner, I suggest you go meet them at their offices if you can. The CN way of doing business is face to face. They are incredibly polite people.
<WarheadsSE>
Except he's going to have a helluva trip to get there.
<WarheadsSE>
I agree that overall I like the chip, ost of that because of the work by peopl in this channel
<focus_it>
Its not difficult to get to China - either go to Hong Kong and cross into Shenzhen and take a train to your destination, or take plane directly if you have a budget.
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<mnemoc>
focus_it: why directing that to me?
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<focus_it>
Someone wrote "mnemoc has a very bad feeling about sun6i's GPL sources availability "
<mnemoc>
I did
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<focus_it>
The best way to get datasheets is go meet them if you can.
<mnemoc>
but I'm cheap offshore labour, not someone who can go to negotiate GPL violations with a company in china
<focus_it>
Sorry, and I mean also the gpl'd code if you can talk with them face to face
<mnemoc>
focus_it: olimex, a company and paying customer of allwinner gets GPL violating kernel and u-boot trees
<focus_it>
mnemoc: not to worry - this is advise for future if you make it big
<mnemoc>
i?
<mnemoc>
I'm not a business person, neither interested in becoming one
<L84Supper>
focus_it: about a year ago somebody started spouting off about the A10 and the great deal they made with allwinner about exchanging community support for open docs and availability of a10's to the community
<focus_it>
age heals all such desires :-)
<L84Supper>
so far only some of the docs are open and only some of the source
<L84Supper>
the a10 went from $6 to ~$25 and now back down to <$10
<mnemoc>
docs/sources availability for sun5i is far worse than sun4i. and I'm sure sun6i will be even worse
<L84Supper>
so just make the best of the docs and the reference schematics if you want to use the a10
<mnemoc>
focus_it: luke was supposed to have talked and agreed wonderful things with allwinner
<brooc>
hno, is the remote connection to a dev board s posibillity?
<brooc>
s=still
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<focus_it>
L84Supper: its possible some companies went to Allwinner and offered fabulous deals with real money that left luke cut out. It won't be the fault of Allwinner that this has happened.
<focus_it>
You go to these sweaty back room deal making meetings, you get to know what really happens.
<mnemoc>
mass murdering list for a better world by prio: 1) lawyers, 2) bankers, 3) MBAs
<L84Supper>
focus_it: real money appears to be the motivation behind allwinner, not open source or community support, but I'm sure they like the free advertisements and any community contributions for the very little they released
<Turl>
mnemoc: you seem to have fogotten about politicians
<mnemoc>
Turl: they are mostly lawyers
<mnemoc>
or MBAs
<mnemoc>
either way, they are covered
<L84Supper>
sociopaths in general, just start acknowledging them and try to rehabilitate them vs awarding them with power
<focus_it>
L84Supper: its a lot less to do with money and more to do with deal making - the average China manager is honour bound to accept best deals for his workers and if better deals come along it all gets massaged in. There is no black and white as we have here.
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<L84Supper>
here = China for me
<focus_it>
The way to get in more rapidly is to go in with money and offer to set up additional companies and hire workers as a subsidiary.
<focus_it>
L84Supper: where? I didn't know. I was in Guanzhou City for 2 years.
<L84Supper>
not far from where you were
<focus_it>
Shenzhen? My favourite haunt?
<L84Supper>
but usually farther north near Shanghai
<xxiao>
focus_it: where are you now...SZ/GZ?
<focus_it>
xxiao: in UK, missing Shenzhen and Guanzhou dearly!
* xxiao
plans to live there in 2013 for a few months
<xxiao>
AW is in Zhuhai, which is a few hours away by car or by boat
<focus_it>
xxiao: in London? - give me a ring I buy you a meal!
<mnemoc>
sounds more like .hj
<L84Supper>
when we asked around 6-8 months ago there was little interest for the a10 except for tablets
<mnemoc>
.hk
<xxiao>
thanks. i'm in us now
<focus_it>
xxiao: if you plan coming to London, give me a ring.
<xxiao>
focus_it: sure :)
<L84Supper>
I've been waiting to see what Samsung and Freescale would end up offering
<xxiao>
mnemoc: what's missing for A10 as far as doc/datasheet are concerned
<xxiao>
i thought AW did some nice jobs on releasing them
<xxiao>
other than codec portioni
<xxiao>
portion
<L84Supper>
i.mx6 is still hard to come by and was very late, and Samsung doesn't want to sell to China except for large phone or tablet OEM's
<mnemoc>
xxiao: the datasheet is merely ~90 pages, barely listing features and pins... which are incorrect compared to the reference designs
<L84Supper>
wasn't somebody AW related up in Beijing?
<mnemoc>
xxiao: the leaked "user manual" is ~400 pages and only covers an small set of the IPs
<xxiao>
for ARM, the top is Apple-Samsung-Qualcomm, they do not exist for small players. middle is TI/FSL, they're exiting; low-end are AW, Rockchip,etc, they don't speak English
<focus_it>
xxiao: I been trying to make pinouts of A10. I have datasheet with evaluation kit, but the pinouts for chip are inaccurate on the witstech datasheet dated 2012-04-06 - do you a better one with sata and other stuff 100% accurate?
<xxiao>
L84Supper: AW is a southern china company, it may have applied start-up funding from Beijing though
<mnemoc>
focus_it: 100% accurate is only the reference design, and the derivatives... like eoma68-a10, olimex's and cubieboard.
<xxiao>
i think hipboi(?) should have all those documents
<mnemoc>
xxiao: I was told the founders of allwinner left actions-semi to "do things better"
<mnemoc>
xxiao: he doesn't
<xxiao>
otherwise how could he make cubieboard/mele2000 working
<L84Supper>
focus_it: I wouldn't put too much faith in the a10 data sheets
<focus_it>
L84Supper: I'm coming from the spoon fed world of PICs and other CPUs and this situation with NDAs and the like is absolutely new and disgusting
<xxiao>
focus_it: for 8/16 bit there is no IP, for 32bit/64bit esp with codec they do exist, thus the closed-info with NDA
<L84Supper>
focus_it: my background is x86 motherboards since the 8086, so it's nothing new
<L84Supper>
it just evolved differently in the east vs the west
<xxiao>
sometimes, it's not the SOC holding the secrets, it's the IP owner where they licensed from
<focus_it>
I'm doing a lot of stuff in NXP arms and the datasheets are complete. So its still a surprise to find the situation so different for these bigger ARMs and the SoCs.
<L84Supper>
lots of IP is borrowed :)
<L84Supper>
focus_it: AW just whipped the a10 together to be sold as a kit to OEMs with virtually no engineering talent, they just copy the design for 6-12 months and then move on to the next hot ARM SOC
<xxiao>
right, it's after all a small company, even TI/FSL lags in documentation
<xxiao>
the consumer market just evolves too fast
<focus_it>
I realized that instead of making NXP ARMs and LCD product, I should make A10 ARM + LCD + Linux + Gambas and then I don't have to make the window managers and the like - its already done in Linux!
<xxiao>
before it's fully documented the next new one comes out
<xxiao>
focus_it: NXP is a loser, other than its NFC, sorry
<focus_it>
certainly I agree! :-)
<focus_it>
That why I want A10
<focus_it>
The hardware companies would make more money if they document and sold the chip with documentation me thinks
<L84Supper>
not much more and possible less
<L84Supper>
they would get more low volume customers that will suck up design resources
<xxiao>
the way in south china, where volume rules, is either the SOC vendor, or some IDH, get the gerber and images ready for others to manufature and ship
<L84Supper>
they get lots of "oh yeah we can build that" when they hardly know which end of a soldering iron to hold
<L84Supper>
one of the ways x86 chipset vendors could easily qualify new buyers was to ask them what layout tools they used
<L84Supper>
if it wasn't allegro they would end the conversation
<focus_it>
wow thats crude!
<xxiao>
no wonder intel is sinking
<focus_it>
how much is allegro?
<L84Supper>
they can't hold customers hands during the design and layout
<L84Supper>
not sure what the current price is, it used to be >$20K
<focus_it>
I assume a KiCAD drawing is a conversation killer then?
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<L84Supper>
they supply Orcad Capture schematics and Allegro board files, also some gerber format since Allegro can import them back into layout
<xxiao>
was the 4-core A7 from AW attractive ?
<xxiao>
normally new designs will be on sale at about the same time when the chip is announced...
<L84Supper>
as HW sure, but only if they share the source
<L84Supper>
otherwise it's like another rockchip or amlogic soc
<xxiao>
in the west, SOC vendors like FSL announce their new chip at some quarter earning meetings years before new stuff are order-able
<focus_it>
Well there is opencores.org and their open source core running Linux. They asked for kickstarter funding but didn't get the full amount.
<focus_it>
Someone could take that and start making SoCs. There is plenty of open source IP at opencores.org
<slapin>
hno: ping
<focus_it>
16800 member
<slapin>
hno: any particular register settings?
<focus_it>
That is a lot of members
<L84Supper>
focus_it: yeah, we've had this discussion before, there's just not that big a market for open hardware
<L84Supper>
even open source advocates tend to choose low cost over open
<focus_it>
L84Supper: you be right. Money first and then do instead of pontificating. I just want to get things done and I hate being powerless on the techie front.
<L84Supper>
it's frustrating I know
<xxiao>
i though Europe favors ATMEL? pretty open it seems
<L84Supper>
IMHO it's back to the sociopath being put in charge too often, too much short term thinking
<xxiao>
microchip should acquire mips for a good future, now it's too late
<focus_it>
Atmel is not cheap compared to the big SoCs like A10, plus slow I believe last time I checked.
<L84Supper>
they all use the same fabs
<L84Supper>
the silicon costs the same
<L84Supper>
it's matter of overhead and how they are financed
<focus_it>
Microchip sole 1 billion PICs to Samsung (just one customer) in 9 months. ARM sells 6 billion processors in whole year.
<L84Supper>
the 5 people at AW don't cost much :)
<xxiao>
talking about china, the real chip vendor is hisilicon
<focus_it>
Microchip "sold"
<xxiao>
Huawei owns Hisilicon, it may compete with TI/Qualcomm one day
<L84Supper>
look at the mess at Freescale, will they even be here in a year?
<xxiao>
again it does not play with small shops
<focus_it>
Microchip a big force in small embedded - they try to become big by making 32 bit PICs using MIPS cores.
<L84Supper>
TI got out of the handset business
<focus_it>
But 32 bit PICs are waaay too slow compared to ARMs out there
<xxiao>
i noticed a sad truth, probably mentioned here before
<xxiao>
that companies are nicer to FOSS, including TI/FSL, are losing the battle
<xxiao>
those that do not, such as Qualcomm/Broadcom/Marvel/Nvidia, are doing better
<focus_it>
TI make good arm - but not at good price and too slow their chips
<L84Supper>
look at nvidia
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<L84Supper>
a few years ago AMD offered to buy nvidia, but the CEO of nvidia only wanted to if he became the CEO of AMD/nvidia, now nvidia could buy AMD
<xxiao>
nvidai can buy N*AMD
* xxiao
knows too many people in AMD
<L84Supper>
even VIA missed the boat every time
<L84Supper>
the could have paired ARM with unichrome years ago
<xxiao>
x86 is so yesterday anyway
<L84Supper>
same with freescale, always a year too late
<xxiao>
FSL will be a car-IC company only soon
<xxiao>
hmm maybe they should buy OBD-II IC companies
<xxiao>
TI will be a new born National
<L84Supper>
Renesas is another
<focus_it>
mnemoc: thanks for the olimex link - those schematics are a treat!
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<L84Supper>
ST also has some multi arm core soc's
<xxiao>
got another email, why schools always push kids to buy more coke/junkie to earn points for their own funding?
<xxiao>
sick of it
<L84Supper>
whatever happened to the snowball dev boards?