<ZaEarl>
now get started on the quad-core cubieboard!
<rellla>
ZaEarl: +1
<hipboi>
ZaEarl: thanks
<hipboi>
the final number is 9.6k
<rellla>
hipboi: not that bad. congratulations!
<hipboi>
rellla: thanks, yes, not that bad
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<gzamboni>
congrats hipboi
<gzamboni>
i hope you guys will continue the good work :)
<arnd_>
stefanro: I suppose you will send cubieboard support in time for 3.8?
<arnd_>
I ordered my cubieboard yesterday, and it would be nice to boot a mainline kernel on it when I get it ;-)
<oliv3r>
goooooooood morning!
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<focus_well>
drachensun: that photo has left me envious :-)
<stefanro>
arnd_: yes, i could send cubieboard support in a few days
<stefanro>
arnd_: would be great to have it mainlined to quickly :)
<stefanro>
arnd_: but your shipment of the cubieboard will most likely take a few weeks
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<hno>
slapin, I have no explanation to what you seen.
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<slapin>
hno: I tested HP 16500C with 16550A logic analyser on NAND, but was too lazy to solder all the pins, so I don't see how yours LA doesn't work - HP has only 4KB per channel. I soldered ALE, CLE and CE and see all the output.
<slapin>
hno: and NAND still works...
<slapin>
hno: by the way, I seem to have the same problem as you now - cold booted hw doesn't see nand but otherwise operational - it seems fclk failure... I don;t see other explanation.
* slapin
needs dumps from NAND badly... can't see what is going on...
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<hno>
slapin, my NAND works fine with PLL5@408MHz. Allwinner u-boot nand code works fine with PLL5@480MHz but not ours.
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<hno>
oddly it does not seem to be related to the NAND clock.
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<slapin>
hno: do you have any success with LA?
<slapin>
hno: we need also to dump all the registers CCM-related and NAND-related to see what we Allwinner code programs that we're not.
<hno>
slapin, no. Been ill all night with high fever. Not getting much done today.
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<slapin>
hno: oh, sorry, be well
<slapin>
hno: I will run tests tonight or tomorrow, as soldering finishes
<focus_well>
i have laser that can cut stencil mylar sheet for bga. this stencil normally steel - so I don't know how good it will be.
<focus_well>
With stencil you apply solder paste. Then place bga on top, then use this lamp, 7 to 10 flashes and its soldered!!!!!!!
<focus_well>
Thats what I'm hoping can be achieved
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<focus_well>
I do KiCAD and do all routing.
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<gzamboni>
the laser cut should be expensive, i dont have one ...
<gzamboni>
would have to buy the A10 stencil from somone
<focus_well>
laser to cut mylar sheet is about $800 in alibaba.com
<focus_well>
also on aliexpress - the small ones that can do A4 sheet sizes
<arete74>
su -
<focus_well>
about 40W maximum energy - CO2 laser tube
<mnemoc>
arete74: Password:
<gzamboni>
is mylar used for this ? it wont burn ?
<focus_well>
KiCAD can produce dxf files suitable for getting patterns cut
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<focus_well>
Laser cutting plastics is an art - nylon melts and seals behind the laser in a liquid puddle, polycarbonate emits cyanide gas which is lethal
<focus_well>
acrylic is perfect it only produces co2 and water!
<focus_well>
but acrylic can't get thin sheet.
<focus_well>
Aparently mylar can get in thin sheet and has good edge definition when cut unlike other plastics
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<focus_well>
I tried it, and i believe the stories, though I don't know if its good enough for bga
<focus_well>
and this lamp system
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<slapin>
focus_well: sometimes some stencils can be made or made from others by hand
<focus_well>
yes that ok - but remember bga is small and alignments critical
<slapin>
focus_well: solder paste doesn't requie that much precision
<focus_well>
slapin: I can make you stencils if you send me paypal payment :-) - but let me get it right first!
<slapin>
focus_well: also, you can generally have this applied when ordering board, so solder paste will not be required for BGA soldering
<focus_well>
slapin: that good idea!! Get the factory to do it!!
<slapin>
focus_well: my stencils are cheap at the moment, $20 each for SDRAM.
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<focus_well>
if its mylar I can do them for $1 :-)
<slapin>
focus_well: other SMT can be soldered without stencils by hand and normal solder
<focus_well>
yes - its the bga, nand, ram that worry me
<slapin>
focus_well: mine for auto-smt for the whole board
<focus_well>
the factory I work with in CN can make 10,000 SMT boards in 3 days - so no problem scaling once boards are right
<slapin>
focus_well: RAM is simple, cpu is hard. NAND can be soldered via cheap smt station after a few tries and good flux
<focus_well>
our engineer here uses 'drag soldering' technique - 100 pin chips he can solder in one minute!
<focus_well>
its a special solder tip with a cup in the middle of the bit to hold a solder reservoir
* slapin
solders TSOP packages in less than a minute with 2 magic passes, good USA-made flux and normal conic solder tip
<focus_well>
OK with TQFP packages - but LCD connector is hard for him to do
<focus_well>
do you have name of flux - my engineer wants the best
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<focus_well>
engineer say the best flux is the thicker syrup like liquid
<focus_well>
the ones he can get is watery and runs everywhere
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<slapin>
focus_well: yeah, and good flux is expensive
<slapin>
focus_well: I don't have it at hands, will check the name
<focus_well>
thanks
<slapin>
focus_well: but for molex connectors I'd recommend hot iron at 350 degrees, or fan from other side of board.
<slapin>
focus_well: because if you manage to get flux into connector they it is goner
<slapin>
focus_well: you have to use good hard drawing brush to put flux on board when soldering these
<focus_well>
I buy two types of iron - low energy and high frequency
<focus_well>
the low energy is about 15W and perfect for SMT - not enough energy to overheat SMT
<slapin>
focus_well: for iron I mean the one you use to make socks more smooth...
<slapin>
focus_well: not soldering one
<focus_well>
the 'high frequency' soldering iron updates the temperature of the iron about once every second or higher frequency - because of that the iron is held at precise temperature it is set to instead of wandering too much
<focus_well>
oop!
<focus_well>
I think I know that technique - someone say use electric cooking plate, heat it up to high temperature, turn it off, place board on cooking plate at right time, and does perfect soldering without burning
<focus_well>
because the cooking plate is cooling all the time.
<slapin>
focus_well: don't forget that it is quite hard to change temperature fast without cooling system and precision is quite bad. I don't see how high freqency measurement can help here
<slapin>
focus_well: my friend uses gas oven as reflow oven for last 7 years
<slapin>
focus_well: that doesn't mean he wouldn't buy real oven if he could
<focus_well>
normal soldering iron has a big lag between on and off and so it always overheat or is too cold and stick. A high frequency iron when set to say 327 degrees will be at that temperature +/- 3 or so degrees
<focus_well>
Real reflow ovens are about $600. But they have a fan that pulls the fume out - so need to have a big pipe to vent it outdoors or get poison fumes in the room
<focus_well>
I buy one, but not use it yet
<focus_well>
because of the need to fit the pipe through window
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<slapin>
focus_well: fumes are not that big a problem, not more that what you get if you just solder it by hand. unless you're going to start mass-production
<slapin>
focus_well: reflow ovens start at $400, but here I have to pay $1400 shipment fees for travelling overseas and customs fee of unknown value
<slapin>
it is very hard to get professional equipment in .ru these days
<focus_well>
I understand - i have similar problems starting business in some countries. if its not the high fees, its the corruption. always loose money.
<focus_well>
get fed up and do business elsewhere
<slapin>
there are a few DIY projects using domestic IR grills, but too much trouble to implement
<focus_well>
some countries are poor because the problems start at the port and for NO other reason.
<focus_well>
you can buy halogen lamps and make your own - cheap about $1 for 300W halogen heater lamp
<focus_well>
you can probably get cheaper - they used in all kinds of heating equipment. Just use a timer and connect directly to mains! :-)
<focus_well>
might need a shiny metal reflector to focus the heat - it is after all a tube.
<slapin>
focus_well: interesting idea, might be trying that on next long holidays...
<focus_well>
glad to help :)
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<oliv3r>
focus_well: you can quite cheaply make high quality flux, dangerous prototypes did some flux-research. i made myself some too, just a little sirup-ey; works perfectly
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<slapin>
oliv3r: any details? I'd like to have some economy flux, cause $20 for 30ml tube is too expensive
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<oliv3r>
google for flux, dangerous protypes :)
<oliv3r>
it boils down to, 97% or more isoprop alcohol, mixed with cheap resin and add 3 or 4 drops of drugstore glycerin
<oliv3r>
glycerin will only be 3% i guess with the rest water, so don't be afraid to overshoot
<oliv3r>
mix well, tada
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<focus_well>
oliv3r: sounds pure fun! give it a try - thank you!
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<oliv3r>
i ordered my resin from Dx.com but if your in china, you can get it for pennies :)
<oliv3r>
and you get really really good flux, just cause its diy doesn't mean it's bad
<oliv3r>
and you can make it as thick or thin as you prefer, by adding more rosin or more alcohol
<drachensun>
can you guys still buy glycerin at the store? Its all disappeared in the US, have to special order it.
<slapin>
drachensun: and in .ru. they confuse it to some explosive I think...
<mnemoc>
maybe you can make an explosive with it :p
<drachensun>
well you can, if you have nitric acid and don't mind losing some fingers learning what you are doing :)
<L84Supper>
cheap brake fluid is mostly glycerin
<slapin>
mnemoc: with 3% glycerin? I doubt it. They still sell nitroclycerin in tablets, so I wonder...
<slapin>
drachensun: well, the process is more complicated than that
* slapin
is afraid that #arm-netbook will be closed in a minutes
<slapin>
wikipedia has an article and references
<drachensun>
lol
<drachensun>
yeah, probably not best discussed in a logged forum
<slapin>
I think you can replace glycerin with some chemical stabilizer, I don't remember which one...
<L84Supper>
why bother making flux or BGA stencils when you can buy them at fair prices?
<slapin>
L84Supper: a price is not fair. The better question is why do anything, you can buy it and improve your economy?
<L84Supper>
masochists
<slapin>
L84Supper: from government POV it is better when everybody will buy such products, not make them. But hobbyists are not sane people, and they are hostle to the ecosystem, and are not very "good citizens".
<L84Supper>
or maybe if your time has very little value
<slapin>
the wish to do anything but watch tv, eat popcorn and accidentally copulate is irrational
<slapin>
L84Supper: I better invest in my skills than in my country customs, bribes, politicans, taxes.
<L84Supper>
conform and consume
<L84Supper>
are we working on a movie plot?
<slapin>
L84Supper: this "plot" is too boring. How Curiocity is doing? Any water yet?
<slapin>
s/Curiocity/Curiosity/
<ibot>
slapin meant: L84Supper: this "plot" is too boring. How Curiosity is doing? Any water yet?
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<focus_well>
slapin: Curiocity finding new ways to kill ALL future Mars projects. Mars is dead Jim, but not as we know it. :-)
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<valhalla>
drachensun: I'm looking at the pengpod and I'm wondering: how hard would it be to remove the capacitive touch screen and put an easily available resistive one? (assuming one is confortable opening devices, but not very skilled wiith soldiering)
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<drachensun>
valhalla: I think it would be very difficult for a number of reasons. First, I think its adhered to the LCD, second, the way resistive and capacative screens are controlled is very different and the pins to the A10s built in resistive controller are not wired out so you would have to install a new controller chip and hack it into the i2c bus somehow then bring in a driver for it
<drachensun>
I'm curious, why would you want a resistive screen? Generally capacitive is much better.
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<mnemoc>
in more industrial with apes operating the devices resistive works better
<mnemoc>
+envs
<drachensun>
interesting, I've wondered how strong the effect was
<drachensun>
we researched it for a vending machine application before, mounting the touch on the outside and having an air gap between the LCD to prevent shock from reaching the glass
<valhalla>
drachensun: mostly to be able to use it with a (non extremely expensive) pen. Also I find that the "capacitive is much better" is not always true, unless you're talking about android where you have to have multitouch for the interface to work
<drachensun>
but the parallax became an issue
<valhalla>
drachensun: my experience is that resistive tend to be quite better than capacitive at precision
<drachensun>
valhalla: There are capative styluses, stylii, not sure what the plural is, but for not much these days. I used to carry some that were $2, they were pretty good for drawing games like "draw something" on Android
<valhalla>
drachensun: that is interesting, I admin
<valhalla>
atmit
<mnemoc>
i have one of those
<mnemoc>
works like half of the times :|
<drachensun>
they do vary in quality, mostly I see breaks in the lines when I am trying to draw
<mnemoc>
and it's targus
<mnemoc>
mine I mean
<drachensun>
they are good though if you have big fingers and just need something smaller to type on the phone
<valhalla>
one of the things I would love to be able to do with a linux tablet is use it as a whiteboard when doing presentations: write on the tablet, have it shown via a projector (and saved for future reference)
<drachensun>
mnemoc: So half the time you get no reaction from a press with the targus?
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<mnemoc>
drachensun: half of the times I don't get a reaction. not drawing but pressing tiny buttons
<drachensun>
yeah, I've been thinking about applications like that. I was hoping to find some software to use the tablet as a 'drawing' tablet for a desktop PC. Its been so busy though I haven't even had a chance to look.
<drachensun>
mnemoc: ugh that is pretty annoying
<mnemoc>
very
<drachensun>
valhalla: So for your project app, how would you output to the projector? with the HDMI?
<valhalla>
for drawing, resisitive usually has some kind of pressure sensibility (usually just a few levels), AFAIK capacitive are mostly using the size of the finger
<valhalla>
drachensun: yes, with the HDMI
<drachensun>
right now it can't do both the LCD and HDMI at once
<mnemoc>
after the 3rd try to press a button you start thinking about throwing it out of the window
<drachensun>
I'm not sure the TS would work right in HDMI mode, I think the script.fex would need the size parameters adjusted in both locations, probably will work though
<valhalla>
I guess I will have to continue waiting then
<slapin>
capacitive screens = no sketches, too bad :( only for android alien UI I suppose...
* slapin
likes HP 16500's touch screen - no dragging, no jests, no multitouch - just pushing and it makes perfect sence and very usable...
* libv
was in the mood for some toyshopping and handed a bit of his cash to olimex
<libv>
mnemoc: i blame you for posting an aliexpress link
<Turl>
libv: what did you get? :P
<libv>
and my brain went like "toys, toys, toys! TOYS! TOYS!!!!"
<libv>
a13 wifi with an lcd
<Turl>
libv: remember A13 has no HDMI btw
<libv>
Turl: really? having spent 3 weeks poking at the disp driver, i wouldn't know :ppp
<libv>
the differences between a13 and a10 disp driver side are how i justified buying this :)
<libv>
rather than spending 80 for the cheapest tablets on ebay (which is way too much when you think about the price of the a13 itself), and then having to do some really fine soldering to get the uart out, the olimex seemed the better solution
<Turl>
libv: I know right? :P
<hg_5>
hey, any tablet to max 250$ you could recommend with mini hdmi ?
* Turl
is procrastinating writing code
<libv>
Turl: same here :)
<hg_5>
or will be there any successor of nexus 7?
<libv>
dangerous times, as for me this often translate in an some artificial but apparently important number being reduced :)
<Turl>
libv: but you probably have to write something nice and useful. I need to finish a not very useful VCS to pass a class :P
<libv>
s/translate in an/translates in/
<ibot>
libv meant: dangerous times, as for me this often translates in some artificial but apparently important number being reduced :)
<libv>
Turl: yuck
<libv>
Turl: forced reinvention of the wheel sucks
<Turl>
libv: yeah, esp. when it's a "minimalistic" reinvention (ie you won't ever use it for anything)
<libv>
that really sucks, but this is what happens to educators after 5 or so years
<libv>
mshopf (who worked at suse and brought up the first triangle on ati r600 with open source drivers) became a professor a year ago, and still is giving himself the extra trouble of trying to come up with something interesting and fun to do
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<libv>
not sure how long he will keep that up, the way he speaks of his students now that he entered his second year, does not bode well
<mnemoc>
libv: the a10s and a12 (both sun5i) have hdmi, so it's not wasted time
<Turl>
most CS people that teach over here seem to like formal verification a lot :P
<libv>
mnemoc: but both are not properly available yet afaik :)
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<mnemoc>
there are some A10s dongles available already
<Turl>
libv: ever worked with directfb?
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<libv>
Turl: nope :)
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<hno>
libv, there is A10s devices on Aliexpress, and IIRC Olimex have got some samples.
<hno>
Have not seen any proof of the existence of A12 yet.
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<drachensun>
$32 with no shipping for an A10 is below market
<Turl>
there's no point in scamming on Aliexpress anyway, they don't get your money until you're satisfied with the escrow thingy
<drachensun>
yeah, but it does hold your money up for months
<drachensun>
I've been in one of those before
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<drachensun>
half price tablets, I had a few grand stuck and they never ship
<drachensun>
I think they guy just hoped to rope people in and talking them out of a dispute before the deadline passed with fake tracking numbers and promises
<Turl>
heh
<drachensun>
I read the same guys comments after I won my challenge (2 months later) and at least a few people got taken
<drachensun>
well the months include having the wait the extra long shipping transit time he had set
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<drachensun>
ali was pretty fast once I could actually open the dispute
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<Turl>
on another topic, did you get android running yet? :)
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<drachensun>
oh yeah, it ran
<drachensun>
yeah, everything looked good
<drachensun>
I tried to boot it off the SD first but the current uboot doesn't have boota
<hno>
drachensun, you can use spl from sunxi uboot and uboot.bin from lichee-dev. But you need some config changes to have environment on SD.
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<hno>
Hmm.. have anyone seen a datasheet for the NAND used in OlinuXino A13? H27UBG8T2BTR
<hno>
A fairly common Hynix nand so I would think there is a datasheet.
<drachensun>
hno: yeah, I built the gnexus one to boot from the internal flash and it does all that. I got a phone call that interrupted before I could type the fun part was I was feeling lazy so rather than stopping and finding it I tried a boot from flash, interrupt then manually call the boot on the SD
<drachensun>
damn thing almost worked to
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<drachensun>
I managed to find the datasheet for HY27UF084G2M
<drachensun>
and their databook describing it but thats it
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<hno>
drachensun, thanks. I'll continue looking.
<rz2k>
I believe in those nands only first 3-5 symbols matter, then timing/size/package/time of manufacture goes. datasheet is one for everything.
<hno>
rz2k, thanks. think I found some now but title only mentions one of the chips in the series.
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<hno>
Hm.. there seems to be many revisions of the chip series with slightly different capabilities.
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<sspiff>
hi, is it possible to have an allwinner A10 output 1366x768 over HDMI?
<mnemoc>
not yet
<libv>
i think we should be able to drive it to at least HD, but i haven't tried myself
<sspiff>
libv: I can make it run 1080p and 720p, but I haven't seen any builds do anything in between
<sspiff>
mnemoc: alright, thanks for the fast answer :)
<libv>
ah, then it is just an issue of testing the plls
<libv>
and of providing proper algorithmic modesetting
<mnemoc>
techn has an experimental branch with edid support
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<techn>
w00t
<libv>
imho we need some fundamental restructuring first
<libv>
like move to full __iomem
<techn>
yeah.. it's pending disp restructuring
<libv>
and introduce per block structuring with it
<libv>
which also means streamlining register bit poking
<techn>
but you can try/test it.. and send patches to me :)
<libv>
yeah, i know, there is some shoot-from-the-hip code sitting around, but not tested or a completely finished set of thoughts yet
<libv>
lima is up now, about to start cleaning up linuxtag code
<techn>
libv: I started today hdmi module squeeze
<techn>
I'm removing hal layer from it
<techn>
first..
<libv>
ah, right, there was some Makefile mumbo-jumbo about external hdmi encoders
<libv>
why would that exist when the a10 comes with built-in hdmi anyway
<libv>
so introducing an abstraction layer there is a bit strange
<libv>
so good man
<techn>
libv: have you tried 3d modes on linux?
<vinifm>
hno: ?
<libv>
i do not have a 3d monitor
<techn>
since I have problem to identify when user wants to set 3d timings
<techn>
other wise I could send hdmi module part of dynamic timings.. after some cleanup ofcourse
<rz2k>
79% chances that they've just stolen the hdmi layer and hacked it in. 21% chances that coder who did that just wanted more lines in his report about today work.
<libv>
i really have little clue about how 3d works, especially in the a10
<techn>
otherwise hdmi registers can be set from struct fb_var_screeninfo
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<libv>
techn: at one point, only /dev/fb0 will be available
<libv>
kms, for all the flaws and shortsightedness that experienced modesetters would not have introduced, really is the way to go, as it provides a more modular approach to drive display engines
<techn>
libv: good :)
<libv>
this includes plane support, and page flipping
<libv>
techn: so the important task for now is to clean up code in a way that the structure gets more comprehensible, and that no valuable information gets lost
<libv>
if the threed codepath cannot actually be reached, then that's ok, as long as the necessary knowledge does not get lost
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<libv>
techn: so feel free to make it so that 3d modes are not actually possible, if that eases fbdev integration
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<rm>
where's lkcl
<rm>
rhombus-tech.net has expired
<rm>
probably on a deletion grace period (month?) now
<mnemoc>
he sent an email on... tuesday? saying he will be offline for some days and return with news
<mnemoc>
uhm
<mnemoc>
whois points to philip hands (hands.com) as admin
<mnemoc>
that's the guy hosting the eoma git repo iirc
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<hg_5>
hi what should i buy to connect nexus 7 to tv ?
<mnemoc>
you just can't
<hg_5>
i mean with wireless connection
<hno>
Is Nexus 10 also without HDMI out?
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<sv>
tv's have wireless?
<rz2k>
it will be extremely slow I guess, capturing android output, streaming and showing on screen..
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