mnemoc changed the topic of #arm-netbook to: EOMA: Embedded Open Modular Architecture - Don't ask to ask. Just ask! - http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68 - ML arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk - Logs http://ibot.rikers.org/%23arm-netbook or http://irclog.whitequark.org/arm-netbook/ - http://rhombus-tech.net/
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<hp_> http://www.fanlesstech.com/ <<-- pretty cool website
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<hno> "It's hardly Shuttle's fault, but Intel's Linux support for Cedar Trail Atoms is atrocious."
<ZaEarl> that's an understatement. cedar trail was a disaster.
<rm> anyone tested Mele's SATA for performance limits?
<rm> e.g. with a fast SSD
<specing> If you have to, use a ram disk
<specing> those are the fastest
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<CIA-122> rhombus-tech: nil master * r236e2a5fff96 /index.html: blank reverted
<mnemoc> rm: traeak (i think) reported 12MB/s on his mele....
<rm> a game console with the A10
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<CIA-122> rhombus-tech: lkcl master * rf52b6a7c093c /allwinner_a10/orders/ (6 files): order processing cleanup
<lundman> cute
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<Turl> rm precisely, retro; comes with android 2.3 :P
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<rm> ha
<rm> also, it's from $104 on Ali
<rm> and the D-pad looks hideous
<rm> i.e. hugely inconvenient
<Turl> wondering if posting about deep boot on the ML would be just throwing more wood to the fire :P
<Turl> (completely offtopic anyway, it's x86)
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<penguin42> what is it?
<Turl> penguin42: a technique for running code without disturbing the OS
<Turl> penguin42: it writes itself to the MBR, then on boot it uses the cpu trap flag to remain around
<Turl> the OS doesn't even notice it's there
<penguin42> Turl: Haha OK - and you wonder why MS want to force Secure Boot onto systems!
<Turl> penguin42: works with any OS on X86 :P
<Turl> I still don't understand how MS's secure boot is anything but secure
<Turl> you can boot stuff signed by them right?
<Turl> they signed a small bootloader for fedora and ubuntu
<penguin42> Turl: I think it's that each stage only boots another stage which is signed
<Turl> yeah
<Turl> but fedora's boot grub
<penguin42> but I don't know the details of how they've done it
<Turl> so if you were to write malware you'd just use that?
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<Turl> imo, it's just MS trying to get more $$ from people and kick the OS community
<Turl> they charge like 100$ to sign your stuff with their key
<penguin42> Turi: I think it's actually against attacks like that; the $100 to them is irrelevant
<Turl> yeah, but if you can boot grub, you can boot anything
<penguin42> Turl: You'd think so but I suspect they have something to stop it that I don't understadn yet
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<penguin42> Turi: More of a mess would be if they then revoked the cert for the boot loaders for fedora/etc if that was possible
<Turl> penguin42: they're signing them with the same key as windows
<Turl> I doubt they would
<penguin42> Turl: No I don't think they are - I think it's certificate based, so they can revoke keys
<Turl> as far as I understood the PCs ship with some sort of trust on a MS key
<Turl> and it'll only boot what's signed with that MS key
<penguin42> Turl: right - but you can build chains of keys - not sure if they do
<Turl> and binaries can only have one signature, so everyone goes for the MS key which is pretty much guaranteed to be on any off the shelf PC
<penguin42> Turi: I think it's more a case of the binary is signed by a key that's signed by MS's cert
<Turl> how are they supposed to 'revoke the key' anyway?
<Turl> not like the bios will connect to the internet to check if it's still valid :P
<specing> why not?
<penguin42> Turl: No, but Windows updates could update a blacklist
<specing> then you wouldn't run windoze :)
<Turl> penguin42: and allowing that would be like allowing randoms to change your keys and authorize anything
<penguin42> Turl: Well, it's worse than Random - it's Microsoft
<Turl> penguin42: true lol
<Turl> penguin42: good read, but it doesn't mention the distro bootloader 'wrappers'
<penguin42> nod
<Turl> reminds me a bit of the motorola boot chain too
<Turl> but motorola won't sign random binaries for you, even if you pay :P
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<arokux> does anybody know the status of the EOMA project?
<A2Sheds> arokux: supposedly it's still under some patent for repurposing the PCMCIA card and shell
<A2Sheds> arokux: so it's hardware controlled by a patent by a secret body, not an open hardware platform controlled by an independent committee/community
<A2Sheds> or uncontrolled
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<arokux> A2Sheds, that was too complicated for me. last time I was here. it were connectors which needed to be found.
<A2Sheds> arokux: thats what I had heard then the secret patent claims came up
<arokux> :S
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<penguin42> it would be good if someone would say something on status - sod all seems to be happening
<ssvb> has anybody heard anything about http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G133999328931 ? looks like an Exynos4412 Cortex-A9 Quad Core 1.4Ghz board for $129
<penguin42> ssvb: Hmm not bad; it does hang the ether off the USB which is pretty grim
<A2Sheds> with uboot nice
<A2Sheds> oh, it's a module plus an IO board
<penguin42> yeh I think Samsung liked doing their chips like that unless you were huge
<penguin42> quite nice - I thought some exynos had PCIe - but maybe that's a different set
<A2Sheds> lets find out the cost of just the cpu module
<specing> ssvb: NICE
<A2Sheds> 1GByte LPDDR2 POP 800Mhz data rate
<A2Sheds> 25 x 42mm
<A2Sheds> 0.4mm ball pitch, see it's low cost, easy to build
<A2Sheds> this I can make great IO boards for
<A2Sheds> and an easy respin into a card format with case
* penguin42 wonders what the thing in the bottom left of the board is
<specing> Doesent have SATA
<specing> -1
<Turl> it's an exynos4 +2
<Turl> quad core cortex a9
<penguin42> (still usb ether though)
<Turl> really nice
<Turl> they're really cheap
<A2Sheds> no other way to connect ethernet unless you were to share the ram controller
<Turl> I mean, it'll never be as cheap as an A10 board, but it's waay cheaper than, say, a tegra dev kit
<penguin42> it's a pity the dual core one with SATA is twice the price of the quad core without sata
<A2Sheds> no integrated ethernet so it either USB, SPI or other slow bus
<Turl> ouch 350$
<Turl> still cheaper than tegra devkit
<specing> heh
<A2Sheds> for the DEV kit, have to check the module price
<A2Sheds> maybe just spin a IO board and buy the modules?
<penguin42> A2Sheds: What would you put on the IO board they haven't?
<Turl> and they cost like 1kUS$ last I heard
<penguin42> Turl: That's kind of normal for full dev kits
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<Turl> penguin42: they don't give you any info though
<Turl> you might as well buy this exynos one :P
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* penguin42 does wonder what the Exynos System bus has on it
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<penguin42> it does have an eMMC socket on the back - might be able to get some speed with that
<Turl> 9USD for the ralink wifi chip and the antenna
<Turl> DonkeyHotei: they sell 8US CSR bluetooth dongles
<penguin42> They've been selling BT dongles for 1GBP in discount stores here
<Turl> yeah but you never know which chip is on those :x
<Turl> I bought one for chip and it claims to be CSR
<Turl> but I've only experienced fail and breakage
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<DonkeyHotei> Turl: it would be great if ZaEarl could be convinced to incorporate those ASAP
<DonkeyHotei> internally
<Turl> DonkeyHotei: I'm more worried of the fact that every batch has all different hardware
<DonkeyHotei> can't be helped atm
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<arokux> rm, did you have any problems with network with minimal debian as normal user?
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<rm> oh yes I did
<rm> with the default kernel you have to add users to the "aid_inet" group
<rm> only then they will have net access
<rm> arokux, this is called ANDROID_PARANOID_NETWORK in the kernel config
<rm> and btw even system services will have problems working with network
<arokux> yep, solved it creating and adding myself to several groups
<rm> so you will have to add users like "www-data", "postfix", etc (depends on what you use), to that group as well
<CIA-122> rhombus-tech: Kees master * rb3a03003a11d /allwinner_a10/orders/beide.mdwn:
<mnemoc> sun4i_defconfig has ANDROID_PARANOID_NETWORK disabled
<arokux> good, i'm going to compile it.
<arokux> mnemoc, how is kernel development going?
<mnemoc> 3.4 works decently, but I haven't had time to keep working on it these last weeks
<Turl> mnemoc: is 3.4 up now?
<arokux> mnemoc, is anybody else working on it?
<mnemoc> Turl: I pushed it long ago... but haven't touched it since then
<mnemoc> arokux: not that I'm aware of
<mnemoc> unfortunatelly there are tons of open issues too
<arokux> mnemoc, can you point me to the easiest one?
<mnemoc> i can't think on any in particular at the moment
<Turl> mnemoc: is that 3.4/forward androidized?
<mnemoc> Turl: yes
<Turl> mnemoc: I might move to it then
<Turl> and fix the realtek allwinnerized driver
<arokux> what does it mean " androidized"?
<mnemoc> the lcd_spi branch seems to default hdmi output to yuv instead of rgb and Quarkx got very greenish output
<Turl> arokux: have android drivers (binder, ramconsole, etc)
<rzk> does 3.4 have disp/hdmi/lcd modules working?
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<arokux> who s gnexus?
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<mnemoc> someone who loves his phone?
<arokux> mnemoc, i would like to help with kernel. what would you suggest to start with? (after compiling, and booting the latest one)
<Turl> arokux: that issue related to the defconfigs might be a good start
<arokux> Turl, which issue?
<arokux> Turl, :) well, that's simple. assuming no compilation error will appear.
<Turl> arokux: if you feel like investigating you could check https://github.com/amery/linux-allwinner/issues/49 too
<Turl> lundman has been working on wemac too
<mnemoc> he is trying to get mainline's dm9000 working instead of the separated wemac
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<ManoftheSea> well, I guess my response was both much briefer and later than Gordon's
<ManoftheSea> But wow, does Gordon give detail
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