<steev>
i hate when the bluetooth is linked to the wifi card
<Turl>
any specific reason?
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<steev>
Turl: mostly because i use a 3x3:3 network, so when i replace the wifi card, i prefer to be able to use my bluetooth mouse as opposed to not being able to
<steev>
network card*
<Turl>
ah
<Turl>
intel is 2x1, not bad
<Turl>
steev: you can probably ask them to install a different wifi card though, I think they make the notebooks themselves
<steev>
Turl: maybe so, but the wifi card i use doesn't have bluetooth, that's the important bit
<Turl>
well, there's those mini chinese dongles you won't ever notice :P
<steev>
yeah
<steev>
until it catches on your pants seam, and the laptop falls
<Turl>
what card do you use btw?
<Turl>
the intel one on my notebook doesn't play too nice with my N router
<steev>
it's an ath9k
<steev>
it's actually killer n
<lundman>
woo, shipping
<Turl>
my router's ath9k too
<Turl>
steev: how much do those cost?
<RITRedbeard>
Damn. My two gender adapters for Lapdock won't work together/size constraint
<Turl>
RITRedbeard: you have a lapdock? :)
<Turl>
I have an atrix :P
<steev>
bah, they aren't listed on amazon anymore
<steev>
but the specific one i use is the 1103
<steev>
it was ~40 bucks when i got it
<Turl>
steev: what brand?
<steev>
killer
<steev>
bigfoot networks (now owned by qualcomm)
<Turl>
ah, that's the brand
<Turl>
I thought you were just saying your N was awesome :P
<steev>
but it was actually sold (on amazon) by the company that makes laptops using them in michigan
<steev>
- There is no function-call-level compatibility between the AArch64
<steev>
level boundary (eg between user and kernel states).
<steev>
and AArch32 states; interworking can only occur at the exception
<steev>
:(
<specing>
Are they doing the same backward compatibility crap as intel?
<specing>
Oh noes
<specing>
a 64-bit processor that can execute 32 bit natively? D'oh
<specing>
Isnt their main target linux, anyway?
<specing>
And as such it can be compiled to 64bit
<steev>
There is at best only a similarity between the A64 and the
<steev>
A32 and T32 mnemonics. In particular, although Neon provides
<steev>
similar functionality, the instructions are very different.
<steev>
that part sucks
<steev>
unless i'm misreading it, which is possible as it's 5am
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<hno>
steev, mnemonics are the same but binary machine code is different. Same as for x86 and x86_64. It's a new instruction set.
<hno>
specing, ARM is a whole lot more than Linux. And in the ARM Linux worlds there is a whole lot of binary-only blobs which users will expect to still work.
<penguin42>
interestingly the encoding differences on x86-64 are pretty small
<lundman>
64bit arm would be interesting
<penguin42>
from what I remember reading of the v8 docs when it was first announced it sounded like a completely new instruction set that happened to use some of the same instruction names
<hno>
I have not looked at ARMv8 instruction encoding. But there likely is similarities with ARMv7 encoding, but it is a new instruction set regardless.
<penguin42>
the encoding wasn't available when I saw the docs
<specing>
hno: the incompatibility would force the mfgs to release new binaries
<penguin42>
as I remember you'll still be able to have 32 bit processes and 64bit processes; I don't think they allowed mixed 32/64 bit processes
<hno>
yes there is support for mixing 32-bit processes and 64-bit processes on 64-bit arm, just as you can on x86_64. But afaik you can't mix 32-bit and 64-bit in the same process.
<hno>
Turl, yes, even hypervisors are non-trusted these days.
<hno>
all thanks to DRM and customer lockin requirements.
<specing>
So, gpu via PCIe and you've got yourself an ARM desktop?
<rm>
hum, you've got yourself an ARM desktop today just by getting an MK802 or Mele, no?:)
<specing>
Those are not powerfull enaugh
<rm>
depends on what you do on your desktop
<specing>
they are designed for 1200x800 tablets, not 2* 1920x1200 monitors with 20 virtual desktops on them running compiles in the background and having 10 (browsers+terminals) open at the same time
<specing>
they are not even near to handling that load
<specing>
with armada-xp, the goal would be achievable
<rm>
sure
<penguin42>
specing: I hate to think how much they cost though
<rm>
but e.g. I am used to running everything on my AMD64 server in a closet
<specing>
penguin42: less than an intel chip, definetly
<rm>
and whatever desktop I use just runs a VNC client
<rm>
and yeah, it is doubtful that Armada will beat AMD's low-end CPUs on price/performance
<rm>
price/performance+powerconsumption, maybe
<rm>
but not everyone cares about power consumption if it's 5W ws 45W
<rm>
on a desktop
<rm>
vs*
<specing>
well the die size should be less than the AMDs
<specing>
= lower cost
<rm>
scale of production is less
<rm>
= higher cost :)
<specing>
Well I guess they should start making some desktops with them, then?
<rm>
well, if it will be like "arm desktops" that were available so far, e.g. TrimSlice
<rm>
$200-250 each
<rm>
then they won't have a great demand
<CIA-122>
rhombus-tech: Dr_David_Alan master * r09cd6fbc6140 /evaluated_cpus.mdwn: Add link to Armada XP kernel patches
<mnemoc>
rm: can't a mele qualify as arm desktop?
<rm>
that's what I said
<mnemoc>
uh, sorry :|
<rm>
> you've got yourself an ARM desktop today just by getting an MK802 or Mele
<rm>
but read the log further :)
<mnemoc>
:)
<rm>
the A10-based devices loopholed themselves out of the "low demand, low scale, high price" situation of earlier ARM desktops by being Android TV boxes primarily :)
<rm>
and this is awesome
<rm>
they will have huge scale and the price will go down
<rm>
let's hope the "boot anything you want from SD" feature remains in A13/A15/etc
<specing>
They should add USB, too
<mnemoc>
FEL gives boot-from-usb....
<mnemoc>
unless you mean usb-storage
<specing>
usb-storage, yes :)
<specing>
Hmm, do they boot from sata?
<Turl>
not afaik
<Turl>
you could boot off a sd and keep rootfs on a sata disk though
<specing>
heh
<Turl>
fuu, stupid carrier
<Turl>
I have 'rollover minutes' but they don't roll over
<Turl>
they don't show on your account; they'll charge you extra and then give you bonus credit to cover for those
<specing>
Well the NAND flash makes the board quite a bit more expensive, doesent it?
<Turl>
and you cannot check how many minutes you really have
<Turl>
specing: a non-NANDed mele? :P
<specing>
yeap
<Turl>
they could use an internal SD slot
<Turl>
and a card
<Turl>
wonder how does it compare price wise to eMMC chips and the like
<specing>
the ARM9 I have has an external SPI 4MB flash which houses stage1, stage2, u-boot and Linux
<specing>
But yeah, a mmc is cheap enaugh
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<arokux1>
hi all! which prebuilt image do u use to hack on mele?
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<specing>
arokux1: w'se ar o 'gs
<arokux1>
specing, translate please
<Turl>
specing: this is not vi
<rm>
arokux1, I took the debian armhf minimal system
<rm>
and worked from that
<rm>
installed Xorg + Xfce4 on my Mele
<rm>
and various server apps and a headless kernel on the MK802
<specing>
arokux1: that is what you get for using 'u'
<specing>
I can shorten words, too!
<arokux1>
rm cool, I like the idea. where is this minimal system?
<markvandenborre>
it has 3 usb host ports, and apparently also an internal USB device port:
<ssvb>
markvandenborre: my A2000 is collecting dust on the shelf at the moment (still waiting for a serial cable), but just to check whether the device is alive, you can to press some buttons on IR remote (a led should blink on the front panel as a feedback)
<markvandenborre>
ssvb: it definitely doesn't (and yes, batteries are there)
<markvandenborre>
ssvb: should there be two leds lighted up on the front side?
<markvandenborre>
(or one of them from time to time as feedback)?
<specing>
markvandenborre: serial :P
<markvandenborre>
thanks for the hints all
<markvandenborre>
seems to be clear I have a dead unit. any hints on where I can buy (or even borrow) a Mele a1000/a2000 within the EU while waiting for a replacement unit?
<arokux1>
markvandenborre, it takes some time before mele starts. then at the beginning (even before the switch to VGA) you should see several android robots on the screen..
<markvandenborre>
arokux1: never got to that point
<specing>
markvandenborre: SERIAL.
<markvandenborre>
you mean I should really check something by connecting to the tty directly before giving it up?
<specing>
yes
<arokux1>
I'm also interested in reading from serial.. how to do it?
<arokux1>
i've even bought a serial converter. but cat /dev/ttyUSB0 outputs only some squares..
<specing>
by hooking it to a 3.3V/5V serial converter
<markvandenborre>
hm, not that familiar with that
<arokux1>
specing, i've done that. should i change some config?
* markvandenborre
googling
<arokux1>
markvandenborre, u would need special hardware or a serial port for it..
<specing>
arokux1: 115200 baud, no handshaking, 8 bits, 1 stop bit
<arokux1>
specing, where should i set it?
<specing>
in your serial port software
<arokux1>
there were some gnome program, i've forgot it's name ((
<arokux1>
specing, i thought i could set it somewhere and use cat afterwards.
<specing>
use screen (the simplest) or minicom
<specing>
you can do that
<specing>
with one of the above^
<specing>
or write your own program (see the termios man page)
<arokux1>
ah, found it. gtkterm -- i've used it once.
<specing>
with screen it is screen /dev/ttyUSB0 115200,ixoff,cs8
<markvandenborre>
what kind of cable do I need exactly?
<arokux1>
markvandenborre, sec..
<specing>
Something that can read TTL/CMOS levels
<markvandenborre>
just a usb serial cable that does 3.3 or 5v instead of 12v like real serial does??
<specing>
I have a MAX232 board
<specing>
markvandenborre: yes
<specing>
markvandenborre: usb-serial without a line driver
<ssvb>
markvandenborre: I guess it may be easier to find and try a different monitor/tv than a serial cable, you mentioned it showing "monochrome Mele logo", so it does not look totally dead
<markvandenborre>
arokux1: so your solution means I can get into the machine without soldering, right? just connecting jumpers to pins on the board on one side, and
<arokux1>
yes
<markvandenborre>
ok
<arokux1>
i could sent you cables, i have to many, but you should buy a converter
<markvandenborre>
ssvb: then again, it didn't get to the android thingie stage, but indeed
<markvandenborre>
will try later tonight on a big flatscreen hdmi thing
<markvandenborre>
then see where that gets me
<ssvb>
markvandenborre: I think I had similar symptoms with non-1080p monitor
<markvandenborre>
heh, I'll wait before mailing Tom then ;)
<arokux1>
note, that it's working find with 1280x1024 vga display
<arokux1>
fine*
<arokux1>
specing, you are also hacking on the kernel?
<specing>
not yet, I have had no serious problems with it so far
<ssvb>
arokux1: it could possibly also depend on firmware version, for example the preinstalled one could not recognize my SATA HDD, but ICS firmware fixed that
<ssvb>
arokux1: I initially even thought that SATA port might be dead on my unit :)
<arokux1>
specing, what is your interest then?
<specing>
getting Gentoo up and running on my tablet
<arokux1>
i see. :)
<arokux1>
i'm Arch-fan
<specing>
I have no mele
<specing>
just this tablet
<arokux1>
btw, i've found stty, you can use it to set some settings and then cat
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<rzk>
mnemoc:
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<hno>
specing, why? Was the pads oxidized and your flux to weak to tamper it?
<hno>
ssvb, the Mele is probably CE compliant, but not RoHS and certainly not FCC filed as they do not target the international markets at all.
<rzk>
weird things happening around me, now my UART recieves garbage from A10, but my USBee DX chinese clone says that A10 sends everything as it should be http://imgur.com/Tps5g
<rzk>
tried uart on msp430 launchpad - same thing, I remember some guy with same issue here, he had cp2102 that was toasted by his tablet.
<hno>
rzk, what UART do you have?
<rzk>
ft232
<hno>
3_3V model?
<rzk>
3.3 by layout, yes
<hno>
pretty hard for those to malfunction.
<hno>
have had USB ports burn out but by connected device doing evil things FT232 suriving just fine.
<hno>
The other reporting garbage vas libv I think, and turned out he was using a UART with RS232 levels or the like, certainly not 3.3V. Just luck the A10 did not burn in blue smoke.
<hno>
rzk, what voltage do you have on the UART TX wire?
<DonkeyHotei>
evil things? do i even want to know?
<rzk>
2.81
<hno>
Some rather nasty electic impulses out on the console port due to bad power management on shutdown.
<hno>
rzk, on the TX wire? Sure you did not measure the RX wire?
<DonkeyHotei>
Rx and Tx are about as confusing as left and right
<rzk>
damn, need to mark wires
<rzk>
yes, rx is 2.81, tx is ~0
<hno>
0?
<hno>
You should only see 0 if sending a break
<rzk>
it is 0, I've checked with bech scope o_o
<rzk>
weird stuff happening with this tablet
<rzk>
first sdram fail, now this
<rzk>
*bench
<hno>
FTDI cable? Or some other FT232 based UART?
<rzk>
some random schematic for 3.3v, this uart is pretty old one
<rzk>
I'll check with other ft232 that I have somewhere
<rzk>
but 0 on tx means that if I connect ft232 with 3.3v levels, it will die because uart is pulled up by default, right?
<hno>
0V on TX means the UART is toast.
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<hno>
serial is using inverted signals. TX is held high while idle.
<hno>
One of my FT232 cables reads 3.35V on TX.
<hno>
and 2.88V on RX
<hno>
rzk, if it's a dual voltage FT232 UART then verify that the VIO voltage selector is in place. But I guess it is as you see some leakage on RX.