<lekernel> latest milkymist gui screenshot: http://www.milkymist.org/flickernoise/darkblue.png
<wpwrak> very nice !
<rjeffries> that milkymist screen shot is ultra cool
<wpwrak> autocrap travesty of the day: seems that they discovered "quiet" builds. of course, unlike everyone else who adds a means to enable verbosity (V=1 or such), they had to hard-code the quietness in the makefile. as if a build under the auspices of autocrap could possibly ever fail ...
<jow_laptop> :D :D :D
<jow_laptop> I usually patch the quiet patch out
<jow_laptop> erm quiet stuff
<wpwrak> i like it for making warnings and such more visible. but there has to be a quick way to see the whole truth when debugging ...
<qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: install/: kernel and system utilities build instructions (preliminary) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/fb5bb5a
<qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atben/README-PCB, atusb/README-PCB: clarifications regarding holes http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6487c32
<qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: install/: updated and corrected build instructions http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/16dcc30
<wpwrak> tuxbrain: yesterday, we heard about russian postal snails. how are the spanish smt snails doing ? :)
<tuxbrain> wpwrak: the snails said this afternoon they will make a "sprint" and send the quote.... I want a world with the efficiency of germany, patience of Japanese , Chinese production, Hindu spirituality, Netherlands legislation sense, EEUU entrepreneur spirit, Spanish  improvisation skill and (ok some French cheese ,bread and pastry can pass the filter too)  , Russian maths toughness,  Nordic mythology and metal, Swiss economical skills... (add/remove you
<tuxbrain> own receipt to the ideal world)... until then let's wait the spanish efficiency with EEUU patience :P
<wpwrak> heh, let's hope for the best then :)
<tuxbrain> and the snails have made the sprint :)
<methril_work> :O
<tuxbrain> wpwrak: I have send you a email with the quoting , no info about the usb connector apart of the warning on the paneling , I have requested for the ref/vendor and/or datasheet of it.
<wpwrak> tuxbrain: "Pantalla Serigrafia Niquel" is the stencil ?
<wpwrak> tuxbrain: prices look so-so to me. not excessive, but i also don't know if they couldn't be substantially lower. maybe ask adam for his opinion.
<wpwrak> tuxbrain: (usb conn) great.
<wpwrak> tuxbrain: i'll be afk for a few hours. let's see of more data arrives :)
<kristianpaul> he, a C structure is very cool :-)
<kristianpaul> usefull
<kristianpaul> reading about tcp/ip
<methril_work> kristianpaul, C structure allows OO in C
<Jay7> but you should pass structure pointer to object functions directly then :)
<Jay7> is using some kind of such things..
<whitequark> has anyone managed to get qt running on ben?
<Jay7> fb->plot_pixel(fb, x, y, color);
<whitequark> per my experience, 32mb is too little for it, but maybe i'm compiling qt the wrong way
<kristianpaul> methril_work: he, i was thiking same actually
<kristianpaul> whitequark: it is
<kristianpaul> check nanomap for example
<kristianpaul> and others games i think
<kristianpaul> qdict too
<methril_work> kristianpaul, it`s used like that in kernel VFS
<methril_work> i did some serialization of "objects" -> C structs
<methril_work> and sent over the net
<methril_work> it works nice :)
<kristianpaul> "object functions" :o
<wpwrak> methril: in VFs and a gazillion other places :)
<wpwrak> tuxbrain: regarding the component substitutions: the 1 uF can is in fact the one i specified. the others are okay as well.
<methril_work> nods wpwrak words
<wpwrak> lekernel: that's your upcoming book ? :)
<tuxbrain> whitequark: you have to be some restrictive (example I'm getting problems if I use large fonts) but with starndard ones I was able to compile on pc and run some demos on NN and I'm developing a code editor app for arduino on QT creator
<lekernel> yeah
<tuxbrain> gn8 dudes, today I'm tired and need to rest. and there is no caffeine arround to make me change of opinion. c u
<whitequark> so, what graphical environment may be used on ben? I've tried gmenu2x, and it works perfectly (of course), but is not very feature-rich and the code is somewhat crappy
<steve|m> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/ You are not authorized to view this page.
<steve|m> mhh
<steve|m> wpwrak: since I can't take a look at the mmone-jtag, can you tell me how to add a SMD mini usb jack with KiCad?
<steve|m> is there some special library I need?
<Jay7> whitequark: jlime is using kdrive+matchbox iirc
<Jay7> or may be xorg+matchbox
<whitequark> Jay7: looking at their screenshots, matchbox requires touchscreen, am I right?
<Jay7> whitequark: no, jlime's one is driven by keyboard
<whitequark> hmm, that's not very easy when you have maybe 8 keys
<Jay7> nanonote have lot of keys :)
<whitequark> the particular thing I'm searching an environment for has much less, but otherwise has very similar hardware
<whitequark> well, of course I may attach a keyboard on i2c, but I do not want to do that
<Jay7> minimal keys requirement is 2 :)
<Jay7> down and select :)
<Jay7> better with 3 - up/down/select :)
<Jay7> you should be happy with 5 :)
<whitequark> hm.
<mth> are you looking for a toolkit, menu, desktop?
<Jay7> ah, yes, some key for closing window and changing between
<Jay7> one modified should be enough :)
<Jay7> *modifier
<whitequark> mth: if I've had 64mb of memory, I'd just use qt for everything and be happy. I'm looking for everything I need to build an usable media player on top of Linux, of course FOSS
<whitequark> but qt is too fat to run simultaneously with mplayer, and gtk is not something I'm happy with, too
<Jay7> whitequark: opie? :)
<whitequark> qtopia is dead
<Jay7> but still working :)
<whitequark> for an one-time project it would work (iirc it has used only ~7mb of memory by itself, through on arm), but I'd like to make something which may be reused
<mth> whitequark: DirectFB is pretty light and was designed for use on set-top boxes
<mth> you can run wxWidgets on top of it if you need a widget toolkit
<whitequark> hm, wxwidgets
<whitequark> i'll look into that, thanks
<whitequark> Jay7: opie.handhelds.org is down too
<mth> wxWidgets is highly modular, so you can disable widgets you don't need
<Jay7> whitequark: opie.sf.net
<Jay7> opie is moved from hh.org long time ago
<mth> although I ran into compile errors when I did that, but they weren't hard to fix
<mth> and all my patches from back then were integrated by the maintainers
<whitequark> mth: looking at their screenshots, they use some underlying graphics library, win32 or gtk
<mth> it can do that, but it can also use its own widgets on a low-level gfx lib like DirectFB
<mth> we had a user interface for an embedded system running on it
<whitequark> oh yes, I see it. looks like we're back in '95
<mth> DirectFB + wxWidgets had a much smaller flash footprint than kdrive + wxWidgets
<roh> wxwidgets is shit. dont use it.
<mth> we did implement a custom theme to make it look good
<whitequark> mth: do you have a repo of that?
<mth> no, it was a proprietary app
<roh> make stuff look ugly and breaks thing which worked before on all platforms
<mth> which was also the reason we didn't use Qt
<mth> they didn't want GPL licensing and the per-unit cost of Qt was also too high
<mth> this was before Qt was LGPL-ed
<whitequark> roh: any suggestions on your side?
<mth> if you have enough resources, go for Qt instead of wxWidgets
<roh> well.. directfb alone isnt a toolkit. its like gdk
<mth> but in this particular restricted environment wxWidgets worked well for us
<whitequark> mth: 32mb and a processor roughly like ben's
<roh> its for drawing and windowing, but for a actual toolkit you need something more. usually people use wither gtk or something completely different.
<roh> there is some very simple stuff.. i forgot the name. mompls
<whitequark> roh: gtk looks nice and has not very big footprint, but its c interface makes me cry
<roh> 'lite'
<mth> there was a framebuffer port of gtk, but it was unclear to me whether it was maintained
<roh> whitequark: you can still code in different languages.. vala?
<roh> and compile down to binary.
<roh> c++ is nearly always much bigger in binary and memory footprint size
<roh> mth: gtk on dfb is what debian used afaik for the installer.
<mth> I've always installed Debian with a text mode installer :)
<roh> dfb can also run on dumb framebuffers. its 'abstracting' the hw of the fbdev so you can use accel if available.
<whitequark> roh: back when I've looked at it, it was looking like in very early stage, is it stable now?
<whitequark> roh: yes, deb's graphical installer uses dfb. I'm thinking about implementing some graphical acceleration with DMA, through I don't know how efficient that would be
<roh> lite? dunno. i havent worked with that stuff for years. but i know that directfb is still maintained and used in real products.. tv's and such
<whitequark> roh: no, vala
<roh> whitequark: dfb does abstract that for you (accel)
<whitequark> roh: sure, but it would fall back to slow way like naive memcpy
<roh> instead of e.g. a userspace x11 driver one has a userspace dfb driver and (usually) a kernel component (the fbdev) which allows mapping/access to registers and dies modesetting.
<whitequark> well I use jz4740-fb just in NN
<roh> so accel is usually in userspace, and modesetting in kernelspace. sometimes even simple blitting (for scrolling)
<whitequark> I particularily like some features of dma like striding and descriptors, it may be possible to implement acceleration for simple ops (like blt) with these
<roh> nah. usually not
<mth> with 320x240 resolution, often software rendering is fast enough