<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: the 2.4 GHz band. 2405-2480 MHz, to be exact
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: mmm in the files there is no place where the componentes the name of the componentes apears in place? how the smt vendor will know where to put things?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (arduino.cc article) nice ! :) and the cool picture certainly helps to make it look more polished
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: these are still only the PCB files. SMT files are another can of worms
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: also, the component references are still missing. i'm still working on getting them on the silk screen as well. alas, kicad put them at another layer, together with other things. so i first have to separate them, then merge the layer into the silk screen
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: then I have to ask the smt vendor what format do he wish to be provided for final producto to gain a little time a  no apear like noobs?
<tuxbrain>
(what in fact we are, at least me)
<tuxbrain>
producto-> production
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: naw, don't ask about formats. that only causes more work.
<tuxbrain>
then what is the excuse to not send them the files for ask for a quote?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: ask them first about the finish and tell them we're still working on the file package
<tuxbrain>
finish? gold  vs tin?
<wpwrak>
yes
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: for now my goal is to finish the PCB files. there, i'm almost done. then the SMT files.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: oh, and you should ask the SMT fab if they need a stencil for solder paste or if they apply solder paste by some other means.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: the stencil would typically be made along with the PCB.
<tuxbrain>
stencil in spanish?
<tuxbrain>
I'm sending the mail to both PCB and SMT vendor, to make clear the have to interact with each other to to arrive to agreement on details
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: anyway what is the reason of that stencil question?
<tuxbrain>
stencil=plantilla
<tuxbrain>
ok
<tuxbrain>
son another gerber with where to put the solder paste I guess
<tuxbrain>
son -> so
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: yes, that's for the solder paste
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: solder paste can also be deposited with a syringe (also by a machine). so they may or may not need a stencil.
<wpwrak>
maybe better to wait until tomorrow morning, when i have the solder paste layer up to date as well
<tuxbrain>
ok, I think as first contact is enough.... sended gerbers as just orienteative for quoting, asked about gold vs tin, give them the provisional bom for 100 units, asked if stencil or injection...
<wpwrak>
tsunami coming (with more to follow)
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben/atusb: added -pcb to PCB fab archives; added "upload" target http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/fffa6e9
<tuxbrain>
ok mail sended... lets see what they reply, I bet one atben the reply will be a WTF :P
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain:Â Â did you also send them a link to the picture ?
<tuxbrain>
yep
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: great. then they can probably figure it out ;-)
<tuxbrain>
that will be the first WTF
<tuxbrain>
second WTF will be sending mail to both at time
<tuxbrain>
third the aks for quoting without smt gervers
<wpwrak>
oh, they probably get much worse stuff every day ;-)
<tuxbrain>
but well, WTF is the most usual reaction on tuxbrain first contact so I'm fine with it
<tuxbrain>
on following contacts WTF->OMG :P
<wpwrak>
hehe :)
<wpwrak>
now .. let's see how i can tame that silk screen ...
<tuxbrain>
well dudes , a lot of stuff is moving on tuxbrain , things visible avrnote, ubbs, wpan ...and  no other no so visible my mind blowing.. time for some rest.
<tuxbrain>
cu
<wolfspraul>
tuxbrain_away: n8
<wolfspraul>
is the non-visible stuff good?
<wolfspraul>
I hope it's good! :-)
<tuxbrain_away>
some is bring money, and other is cool stuff so yeah we can cosiderate them good :)
<wolfspraul>
great
<kristianpaul>
okay, first pcb manufacture just gave up...  sorry but we cant mke 0.25 mm holes..
<kristianpaul>
device, not bad for only 99¬
<kristianpaul>
ha,! nice quote :-)
<kristianpaul>
"Making the little Ben the first AVR microcontroller programmer in the world able to edit the source code, building it, listen music or play Supertux at same time, in same device" sweet :-)
<kristianpaul>
tuxbrain_away: you make it !! :-)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: (holes) did they read the spec ? hole sizes up to 15 mil / 0.4 mm are okay
<kristianpaul>
hmm
<kristianpaul>
seems not
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: of course, if they didn't read the spec, they may also not have realized that the board is 0.8 mm ...
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: a 0.8 mm board may be "more exotic" than a 10 mil drill
<kristianpaul>
they sell 0.8mm board
<kristianpaul>
actually i will buy one cut  from then when able
<wpwrak>
okay. then maybe ask them again, pointing out that they can go up to 15 mil / 0.4 mm for the hole
<kristianpaul>
okay,  so FYI, 1 PCB is 23800 COP
<kristianpaul>
yeah i already reply.. this people is lazy i pointed please, read the README !!
<kristianpaul>
ah, wait the second manufacurer askme more details... again... okay :-)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: USD 181 (with IVA) for 12 units is still a very reasonable price
<kristianpaul>
not for me :/
<kristianpaul>
okay, i'll delay this a month
<kristianpaul>
but is good to know i have good prices localy for small runs :-)
<wpwrak>
may be cheaper to just get some from tuxbrain. he can spread out the setup cost
<kristianpaul>
bah.. the second pcb manufacurer is asking 394000 cop (tax included), ...
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain's pcb fa has a high setup cost but a low per unit cost. so if you make larger quantities, the prices are good. yours has a much lower setup cost. there are places like batchpcb with even lower setup cost, but they can't do advanced boards like this one.
<wpwrak>
whoopie
<wpwrak>
for how many ?
<kristianpaul>
should i ask 100? :D
<kristianpaul>
just for curiosity..
<kristianpaul>
hehe
<wpwrak>
well, it's not a lot more than for the other if the quantity is comparable. USD 217 vs. USD 181
<kristianpaul>
let see, as they said 50% initial, may be i can handle it..
<wpwrak>
yes, you should always ask for the next larger quantity, too :) e.g., in the case of tuxbrain's fab, 100 and 500 UBB cost almost the same. so it would be silly to just get 100
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: (50%) initial. better make sure you have funding for the entire order before you make it.
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: or wait for tuxbrain. may be easier.
<kristianpaul>
once you you get one foot in the pool... :-)
<wpwrak>
;-)
<kristianpaul>
i can wait, or ask for small quaitities, but not sure if is good for me..
<kristianpaul>
for my position, may be i can asid, okay, lets try 4 boards with 0.4... and see how good is your work ;-)
<kristianpaul>
the gave me a excuse
<kristianpaul>
s/asid/said
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: to answer your question about component placement: there is a separate placement file for that. they don't have to read the locations off the gerbers or such
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: they need to translate that file into what their machine(s) process(es), though
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: wow, you mean with SDK there is no need to compile openwrt again in the next two years? :-)
<kristianpaul>
or at least for every upstream release..
<xiangfu>
as long as the gcc and uclibc don't update.
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: I have some question about MM1 boot.
<xiangfu>
when plug the power cable to MM1. the FPGA should load the VHDL code to itself  right?
<kristianpaul>
it loads a _standby_ bitstream generetated from a verilog code, yes
<kristianpaul>
so it waits you press the middle button to load the regular bitstream
<xiangfu>
the LM32 cpu core is write by verilog code. when the FPGA load those LM32 cpu core?
<kristianpaul>
that, then, will load from the flash memory the bios, and the bios will load flicernoise or other app
<xiangfu>
ok. so it's standby-bitstream --> REGULAR BITSTREAM --> REGULAR BIOS --> REGULAR APPÂ Â (flickernoise)
<kristianpaul>
board power  > fpga load standby bitstream > if right button pressed > regular bitstream is loaded (here comes LM32 cpu), then it loads bios from the nor flash
<kristianpaul>
yeap xiangfu
<xiangfu>
ok. so REGULAR BITSTREAM is LM32 cpu core.
<kristianpaul>
well, is more that than is the whole Milkymist SoC
<kristianpaul>
as he did gsoc lasy year for porting rtems to mm1
<kristianpaul>
i still learning rtems internals, so i dont have the last acurate info :-)
<kristianpaul>
for example, just to you get an idea, a hello world app, is mainly a makefile plus a C file, with some defines and a main with a  printf/printk, :-)
<aw_>
kristianpaul, do you think that drawing/illustrating a functional block /or architecture about current all s/w repository is a good idea for like me can easy understood rather than describing?
<kristianpaul>
and no. you cant load dinamically binaries on rtems yet (for the milkymist BSP)
<kristianpaul>
gcc issues mainlly
<kristianpaul>
aw_: oh, sure drawings are always good
<kristianpaul>
I see a timeline drawinf for boot processs and a shelllike drawing too for merelly software part
<aw_>
kristianpaul, when you are trying to introduce /or teach xiangfu about this which is almost what I would like to know. I think that you could hard to introduce like this everytime when  a beginner asking. :-) sorry that but I do not really know their structure/architecture.
<aw_>
kristianpaul, um..a timeline drawing about boot process is powerful/easy understood for me I think. sorry interrupt your talks.
<kristianpaul>
aw_: oh, no your comments are wellcome !
<kristianpaul>
"I think that you could hard to introduce like this everytime when  a beginner asking. :-)" You mean, I should make a introductory doc? sorry i dont get the "hard"
<kristianpaul>
aw_: yeah, i know there is a missing general structure/architecture for milkymist, but not be afraid to dig in, is not so hard as many people think
<aw_>
kristianpaul, sorry it's 'hardly'..
<kristianpaul>
ah, i see, you wonder this, but not so many people ask what xiangfu did just before
<aw_>
kristianpaul, um..but for me...it's hard or even include yi i think.
<kristianpaul>
and hey, this is qi-channel :-), good, we're more friendly here ;-)
<aw_>
it would be super helpful for us as a beginner.
<kristianpaul>
well that already is helfull, but yes, not milkymist/flicernoise specific
<kristianpaul>
I'm taking your words, i agree, beginners need more intro doc, also will help wolfspraul do more sales ;-)
<kristianpaul>
So people not will afraid buy mm1Â Â and get alone in the wild...
<aw_>
yeah...well..that's just IMO. :( -- :)
<kristianpaul>
i agree
<wolfspraul>
I suggest to use the milkymist.org wiki for that
<wolfspraul>
our resources are limited, so if we get carried away to draw difficult drawings for several days, I'm not sure that's good. The problem with drawings is that they often get outdated (maintenance effort is too high).
<kristianpaul>
indeed
<kristianpaul>
keep update is hard..
<kristianpaul>
re-use rtems graphic is not bad idea, and the boot process is not hard to describe as text on a wiki i think
<aw_>
i've not dig into such stuffs. once I finish sourcing then must run into them at some points. i have a lot of tasks waiting for me before rc3 run. :-)
<kristianpaul>
btw, some not asked feedback, my mm1 power adapter get a bit warm when just pluged to main, no mather if is or not connected to the board. i guess is okay, just wondering at anycase, as other adapters i have dont get warm
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: same with my mm1 power adapter.
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: (rtems/flickernoise) very thanks.
<wpwrak>
aha ! found another bug in the scripted pcbnew. it ignores clearance settings
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: btw, have you seen that i added another pair of patches ? --origin=abs|aux to set the origin of the coordinate system for fab files
<wolfspraul>
oh, no haven't seen that yet
<wolfspraul>
let's see
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: meanwhile, i found another bug: seems that --plot doesn't pick up global clearance settings, so we end up with the hard-coded defaults
<wolfspraul>
he, quite intrusive your patch
<wolfspraul>
I will try to merge it at the next opportunity, of course not sure I can find a cleaner way.
<wolfspraul>
with 'global clearance settings' you mean what? where is the setting?
<wolfspraul>
you mean a user/system-wide saved setting?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: they're stored in .pro, but there's also an effect in the .brd file. not sure how they're related
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (intrusive patch) yeah, got a little messy. i also don't like that i had to second-guess what the algorithm does later on. maybe that's not necessary in more recent versions of kicad.
<deadman>
Hello, anyone able to help with some CPU questions?
<larsc>
nope
<deadman>
8v) Really?
<deadman>
I apologize this is way new to me here.
<tuxbrain_away>
larsc: cruel
<tuxbrain_away>
:P
<larsc>
but effective :)
<larsc>
hmpf, i should do more -rc testing nanonote support in 2.6.38 is broken
<viric>
what is better in 2.6.38, over 2.6.36, for example, for the nanonote?
<larsc>
it boots faster
<viric>
larsc: I wanted to understand what are the measures for kernel memory usage. /proc/meminfo should have all the numbers, but I even cannot guess what is the kernel image size from there. Do you understand that meminfo?
<viric>
larsc: ah great
<larsc>
well jz-2.6.38
<larsc>
not upstream 2.6.38
<viric>
ok
<larsc>
viric: sorry, no idea
<viric>
ok
<viric>
thank you :)
<Jay7>
larsc: so, jz tree is usable now?
<larsc>
yes
<viric>
I was trying to get the ingenic new docs released, and I still could not access them
<viric>
does anyone have the link?
<larsc>
ftp://ftp.ingenic.cn/2soc/
<viric>
and you can access that?
<viric>
here it stays forever
<larsc>
yes
<viric>
ah, after two minutes it worked
<larsc>
it takes a moment though
<larsc>
wolfspraul: do you know why the qi-hardware server is currently so slow?
<viric>
larsc: the ftp does not have 4720 datasheets
<Jay7>
it's GUI to choose kernel and boot it (simple explanation)
<wpwrak>
(ingenic docs) very interesting. they pulled all the 4720 material. good that we pulled full copies :)
<viric>
wpwrak: ah you have them? Where?
<viric>
Jay7: ah ok
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: something for your next meeting. ask them to restore at least 4720_ds
<viric>
Jay7: why would someone want to switch the kernel there?
<viric>
wpwrak: if you can put a big zip somewhere, I'd gladly pick it
<Jay7>
viric: it's useful mostly to boot from any media
<wpwrak>
viric: i think xiangfu has a web-accessible mirror
<Jay7>
i.e. from SD e.g.
<viric>
Jay7: ah ok
<viric>
wpwrak: ah ok. I'll ask him
<wpwrak>
viric: (kexec) the idea is to keep the dedicated boot loader (u-boot or such) as simple as possible and to move all the more complex things into a linux-based environment that then boots the real system with kexec
<viric>
wpwrak: hm ok
<Jay7>
next kexecboot release should have switch_root method support as well :)
<viric>
wpwrak: I hope that does not end in uboot mmc code unusable
<Jay7>
so we can use it as initramfs
<wpwrak>
viric: i hope it will end in the unceremonial burial of u-boot :)
<Jay7>
seems you are not happy with u-boot here ;)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: I asked the CEO about permission to mirror, no response yet
<wolfspraul>
that's unusual, he normally replied on the same day always. oh well :-)
<wolfspraul>
there may be lots of reasons behind the documents on the server
<wolfspraul>
all the way to a clueless new server admin who just copied files around without knowing what was copied, and where it was copied to
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: at least he didn't reply "oops, it was a mistake" and pulled them
<wolfspraul>
Chinese will never admit a mistake.
<wpwrak>
but most of the files are still there :)
<wolfspraul>
I'll find out one day.
<wolfspraul>
well then, great
<wpwrak>
hehe ;-)
<wolfspraul>
plus it was public now, it will be mirrored, one way or the other
<wpwrak>
the internet never forgets
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: any idea about the default settings ? i see that you are loading the project file (or at least that's what the source suggests is happening)
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: hi
<wolfspraul>
not sure, haven't looked yet
<wolfspraul>
those parts are probably copied over from your original patch
<wpwrak>
heh, didn't even know you had copied things from my hack
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: of course. on the shoulders of giants...
<wolfspraul>
you made the first command line option, I just added some more