<wpwrak>
rjeffries: i don't think this is how it works. there are other marks with crosshairs, but they have a different role. the idea behind the fiduciary is that it's on the copper layer, which is the reference for everything else, and the resolution for lines/traces there is limited
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: at least now i understand what these strange circles do. before, i thought they were supposed to be ground points for use during testing. yet, strangely enough, they often didn't connect to any ground ...
<wpwrak>
grr. s/fiduciary/fiducial/
<kristianpaul>
oh dear, big storm today :S
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: ah that's where it went. for today, heavy rain was announce for buenos aires. i went shopping tonight, hoping to get a free car wash. but not a single drop fell.
<kristianpaul>
drops are , but Lightning and wind are getting anoying..
<kristianpaul>
are oka*
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: as long as there are no power cuts ... :)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: two atm
<kristianpaul>
very short
<kristianpaul>
UPS is strong (up 6 hrs) also all my computers are low power :_)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: (6 hours) wow
<kristianpaul>
as i said my computers are low power :-)
<kristianpaul>
is a cheap USP
<kristianpaul>
ups*
<mth>
can anyone test this on the NanoNote? "hwclock -ru ; sleep 10 ; hwclock -ru"
<mth>
under OpenDingux way more than 10 seconds pass on the hardware clock
<mth>
in fact, the RTC seems to be running 1024x faster than it should
<mth>
lars_: who should program JZ_REG_RTC_REGULATOR? the boot loader? the board init code? the RTC driver?
<kristianpaul>
he, ethernet cord is a bit loose :_)
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: I have some pics !
<kristianpaul>
i'll upload
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: cool!
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: multi upload dont support multi file description ;-)
<wolfspraul>
yes, I think you are right
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul:Â Â OBK-3130C default lense is M12 right?
<wolfspraul>
the lense holder, yes
<wolfspraul>
I think all your lense holders are M12, no?
<wolfspraul>
12 = 12mm
<wolfspraul>
M9 = 9mm
<wolfspraul>
M12 = 12mm
<wolfspraul>
that's just the size of the thread
<wolfspraul>
there are other sizes like back focal length etc. that have to match for it to focus
<wpwrak>
reviving xue ?
<kristianpaul>
okay, i'll upload pics with default lense for all tree cameras and same "landscape"
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: no, thinking about including a camera with Milkymist One
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: how you in english  un vaso grande para tomar agua y demas?
<wolfspraul>
maybe some of those insights can be used to revive a mobile milkymist or mobile camera project one day, but right now it's very specifically about whether/which camera to include with Milkymist One
<kristianpaul>
i wonder all the names in english for that... :o
<kristianpaul>
ah, holder..
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: hmm, not quite sure if there's such an expression in english
<kristianpaul>
ok i'll just call it gree vaso
<kristianpaul>
cilinder**
<kristianpaul>
more generic
<mth>
lars_: the Dingoo native OS is to blame: apparently the power-on setting is 1Hz, but the native OS reprograms it to 100 Hz (not 1 kHz as I thought) and that reprogramming survives a push of the reset button
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: wouldn't the camera be very specific to the use(r) ? well, i guess it can't hurt to have an optional "first steps" camera for someone who just wants to explore
<wpwrak>
(waiting for asia to reconnect ...)
<kristianpaul>
:_))
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: so far from what i can see it is meant to be generic camera
<kristianpaul>
or what you mean with veryspecific?
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: a good one or just something cheap that works ?
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: actually the camera i liked was not the cheap one
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: well, if you go to a club, you may have specific needs depending on the scene. and if you want a camera that can handle "anything", it would probably quite expensive
<kristianpaul>
wait some minutes i'm uploading some pics i hope explain better
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: sure, for club we need to be very picky
<kristianpaul>
lux*** picky :-)
<kristianpaul>
equals expensive !
<kristianpaul>
yes
<wpwrak>
yup. low light, wide focus/zoom range, etc. probably right in the semi-professional segment. USD 1k+
<kristianpaul>
focus is other history indeed
<kristianpaul>
so all what we found now lets call it cheap after your nice point about semi-professional stuff :-)
<wpwrak>
hehe :)
<wpwrak>
what's actually the maximum camera resolution mm1 can handle ?
<kristianpaul>
there is a chip for composite video, NTSC/PAL..
<kristianpaul>
i dont remenber the specs
<kristianpaul>
but PAL resolutios is given in TV lines i think
<wpwrak>
hmm, if it's only VGA or such, then that would mean a fairly unsophisticated camera
<qi-bot>
[commit] cshore: [package] hotplug2: Added zaptel subsystem to /etc/hotplugs2.rules so that the zaptel kernel module package only needs to had a script to create the correct device nodes (default names differ from what all apps that use zaptel actually use, so a script is necessary). http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/06a1c1c
<qi-bot>
[commit] jow: [include] image.mk: only upgrade permissions instead of overwriting, utilize tar -p flag for targz image targets (#7667) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d80e0f1
<qi-bot>
[commit] jow: [include] target.mk: don't enable coreutils by default, it does not even exist anymore... fixes the Image Builder http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/909ceae
<kyak>
xiangfu: hope it went well... since we didn't commit anything to qi trunk yet
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: the images are thrice "analogized" ... i don't think you can really tell what quality you have there before getting digital screenshots. also, things like gamma correction may make a huge difference.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: the photos basically scream "PLEASE correct my gamma !!!" ;-)
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd, atusb.brd: set solder mask opening of fiducials to 2 mm http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/7e20be9
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: i also checked the prices at digi-key of the major components - no change since i did the last BOM (with prices from february ~14-15)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: thank dude, today I will pretty offline, but I will keep an eye on mail to see if smt vendor finally decide to tell us how much
<wpwrak>
yeah, they seem to be dancing around that topic. i guess if you have to ask, you can't afford it ;-)
<kyak>
xMff: ping
<xMff>
pong
<kyak>
hey :)
<xMff>
hi
<xMff>
hm sorry, I have to run. Will check in later
<kyak>
xMff: could you explain how CONFIG_ALL works? It's pretty strange, because when i choose it via menuconfig, it doesn't select all packages as "m"
<kyak>
ok, no problem
<kyak>
then to make CONFIG_ALL work, i have to rm the .config
<kyak>
and run menuconfig again and choose the CONFIG_ALL
<kyak>
it feels like CONFIG_ALL respects those packages, which are already "is not set"
<kyak>
therefor CONFIG_ALL=y only works the first time you generate .config
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: he, well screenshots i think will make things more clear
<wolfspraul>
yes, we'll get screenshots to work :-)
<kristianpaul>
i'll try what lekernel said about black background
<kristianpaul>
take some pics, record a video :-)
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: I will also look for a (manual) zoom lense
<viric>
are the x264 decoders floating-point only?
<wolfspraul>
thinking about your pictures, I realized a 'good' setting will very much depend on the location/environment
<wolfspraul>
so that will only work with a zoom lense
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul:Â Â (manual) zoom lense
<kristianpaul>
nice !
<kristianpaul>
viric: i dont know, but you ask lekernel at #milkymist
<kristianpaul>
i think they are but not sure at all, i dint take a look at the pfpu
<kristianpaul>
*yet*
<viric>
hm ok
<viric>
thank you!
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: so you agree about the zoom lense idea?
<wolfspraul>
I think our system is not about end-to-end quality right now
<wolfspraul>
we don't even know where the bottleneck is
<wolfspraul>
but from a use-case, I think you want to adjust the zoom setting to the location you use the m1 at
<wolfspraul>
and how is that possible with a fixed zoom lense, whether it's wide angle or not
<wolfspraul>
so we rather have a manual zoom lense 4-9mm or so
<wolfspraul>
I need to look at cost, but no matter how cheap a lense we take, I doubt the lense performance will be our optical bottleneck.
<kristianpaul>
wolfspra1l: (zoom) i agree
<kristianpaul>
Well, sebastien already point us the main use case for the camera, so that zoom at least you fit that case
<wolfspra1l>
my network is crazy unstable lately
<wolfspra1l>
I think the Chinese government is going all out in attack mode
<wolfspra1l>
hopefully I can get a few more things done today :-)
<kristianpaul>
:-)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: smt vendor confirm fiducials are ok,
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: also smt vendor is in charge to aply the solder paste, so they will be the destinators of the stencils
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: but will they need stencils to be made, will they make the stencils themselves, or will they apply the solder paste without stencil ?
<tuxbrain>
they ask for the stencils, if not they will charge us for them I supose
<wpwrak>
okay. good. then you need a quote from the pcb fab for the stencil as well.
<tuxbrain>
this info are not in the gerber files_
<tuxbrain>
?
<wpwrak>
it's just the solder paste layer
<wpwrak>
but you have to tell the pcb fab that you need a stencil as well, and not just the pcb
<tuxbrain>
mmm this is not what the tell I guess,
<tuxbrain>
El proceso normal de un montaje es : recibes los circuitos tal cual , y aquÃ
<tuxbrain>
en nuestras instalaciones , primero pasan por Serigrafia  ( donde se aplica
<tuxbrain>
pasta de soldar , por lo que se necesita una pantalla de Serigrafia )y luego
<tuxbrain>
pasa a  pick&place y horno
<tuxbrain>
c&p of the mail
<wpwrak>
serigrafias = printing, using the stencil
<tuxbrain>
so I might ask to the pcb vendor to make the stencils isn't it?
<tuxbrain>
might-> should
<wpwrak>
yup. there are also different kinds of stencils. but i guess they'll know what the smt fab uses.
<tuxbrain>
I hope so you scared me with the prices of that page
<wpwrak>
USD 150 ? why ? that's peanuts :)
<wpwrak>
ah, one thing to cut costs could be to combine atben and atusb on the same panel. you may want to ask the pcb fab if they can do that (and if it really does lower the cost)
<tuxbrain>
peanuts and water will be my diet in short so for me are quite important :)
<wpwrak>
drawback: you'd have a fixed atben/atusb ratio
<wpwrak>
add a beer and a little coffee, and you have something from all the important food groups, i.e., fat, alcohol, caffeine ;-)
<tuxbrain>
mmm I don't think it will low costs two much... also it has the big draw back than if for example atusb are good selling and atben not, you will have to pay again to do a atusb setup only...
<tuxbrain>
two->too
<wpwrak>
yup. okay, not mixing them is cleaner. it's just one option to consider if you must cut costs.
<wpwrak>
now we just need to find out what the smt would cost :)
<tuxbrain>
give me a good software stack than make them plug an play and brings up a /dev/wpan0 able to accept dhcp and cost will be reduced by volume :)
<wpwrak>
network interfaces don't need /dev nodes :)
<tuxbrain>
more in my fabour
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: oh ... i see what you mean. indeed, no solder paste layer in the fab packages. fixing ...
<tuxbrain>
that means I have not to ask to pcb maker?
<wpwrak>
no no ... it means that i forgot to include the file ;-)
<wpwrak>
making these fab packages is a heck of a lot of work. good that the next set will be much easier, with all the tools in place
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: ah, have you gotten a response regarding the mounting of the usb connector ? i.e., should the stencil provide solder paste for it ? and if yes, on both sides ? (both sides means that you need either two stencils or a pcb that has half of the parts flipped)
<tuxbrain>
I they will just will be in charge of the usb due is out of the smt process
<wpwrak>
parse error :)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: (adam screaming) a real fun image  to have in mind
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: so .. what will happen with the usb connector ?
<tuxbrain>
they will just put in place soldered
<wpwrak>
you mean they'll solder it by hand ?
<wpwrak>
or will they insert it by hand, but reflow it with the rest ?
<tuxbrain>
don't know, ok I will satisfy your curiosity, I will ask :)
<wpwrak>
i need this information to determine whether to apply solder paste or not. the options are: 0) no solder paste for the usb connector, 1) only on front, 2) on both sides.
<wpwrak>
hmm, i'll add a via to make sure ground on both sides is connected. just in case ..
<tuxbrain>
asked
<wpwrak>
two vias. now nothing can go wrong :)
<tuxbrain>
changing the topic, how on hell spetec could achive to put the wifi stuff in such ridiculous narro space... what would requiere to us to do at atben of such dimmensions (apart of surelly indecents amounts of money)
<wpwrak>
easy: use microvias, put components on both sides, use a chip antenna
<wpwrak>
and use a four-layer pcb while you're at it
<wpwrak>
nothing insane. just a little outside of the reach of my DIY process -> expensive trial and error cycles. but okay for a 2nd generation product.
<wpwrak>
(expensive) both in terms of money and time. maybe USD 1000-2000 per revision. and 1-2 weeks turn-around time for each. but again, that's okay if you know what you're doing, because then you'll need maybe 2 trial versions and you're good.
<tuxbrain>
by the procces you are descriving then is even posible to make a Nanonote watch :)
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.brd: added two vias to connect front and back ground at USB shield http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1c4c78e
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: added the front solder paste to the PCB fab package (for stencil production) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/269f770
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.brd: moved FIDUCAL label away from mounting hole; bumped version number http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6ff2740
<wpwrak>
a little cheaper and also a bit "less through-hole". ah well, something for atusb v2.0
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: the usb connector can be smt? smt vendor suggest that to avoid two stencils and two printings
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: one of your naps_
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: i haven't been able to find any USB connector that completely avoids being through-hole. there is one that is slightly SMT-friendlier, but still requires a hole
<tuxbrain>
ok I think they have one of those
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: an more radical alternative would be to eliminate the USB connector entirely and to make one of the PCB
<wpwrak>
lemme show you a picture ...
<tuxbrain>
IÂ Â know how they look like
<tuxbrain>
but I don-t like it
<tuxbrain>
save this option when we use microvias and 4 layer pcbs
<tuxbrain>
I will thell the smt to go ahead with his smt USB connector and only one face to deal with
<wpwrak>
wait ... you say they propose a different connector ?
<tuxbrain>
yes
<tuxbrain>
an smt one
<wpwrak>
data sheet ?
<tuxbrain>
ok I will ask, will make any difference?
<wpwrak>
that's what i'll know when i see the data sheet ;-)
<wpwrak>
the white stuff on the bottom is to add thickness
<tuxbrain>
I have asked for all datasheets of their alternatives they propose in the quoting , to be validated by our "Enginering department" so I prefer to tell them to go ahead with the quoting an then we will enter in matizations if something don't convince us
<wpwrak>
matization ?
<tuxbrain>
doesn't exist this word in english?
<tuxbrain>
ok matizacion(ES)->Clarification(EN)
<wpwrak>
ah, learned a new word ;-) i was already wondering if you meant something related to "matanza" :)
<tuxbrain>
haahaha this is reserved if things go wrong :P
<tuxbrain>
and after production started, before it starts we are all friends :P
<wpwrak>
*grin*
<kristianpaul>
eliminate the USB connector !!
<kristianpaul>
yes,
<kristianpaul>
hmm, creo que matizaciones era solo para luces y colores
<kristianpaul>
crei**
<kristianpaul>
interesting :-)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: (eliminate the connector) unfortunately, this isn't entirely trivial. my board is 0.8 mm, and the total thickness has to be around 2.0 mm. so you either use 1.6 mm and add some material (e.g., the white stuff in my picture), or you use a 2.0 mm board
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: the problem with making the board thicker is that this changes its RF characteristics. so the feed line gets wider and the antenna needs to be redesigned
<kristianpaul>
hmmm
<kristianpaul>
yeah, i missed the thickness :/
<kristianpaul>
well
<kristianpaul>
but hey, this is atben, is so dramatic therorically tought about a thick change?..
<kristianpaul>
s/tought/think
<wpwrak>
it's atusb. atben is exactly right at 0.8 mm :)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: i''ll pass the request to my carpenter :)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: he'll be happy to hear that you like this avantgarde design. like stone-washed jeans, just for furniture
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: sell it pricy , is an RF chair
<mth>
tuxbrain: are you using Qt Embedded or Qt X11?
<tuxbrain>
I'm using qt4, using the openwrt tool chain than use frambuffer
<Ayla>
hello
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I knew you were an authority on ATM and communications matters, had no idea you were also an artisan with wood
<tuxbrain>
hi Ayla
<Ayla>
anyone uses gmenu2x?
<tuxbrain>
yes
<rjeffries>
Electric Chair, used once, from Argentina.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: anechoic wood
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (-:C
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: you enjoy using words than I don't understand , isn't it?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: i actually did a few things with wood. when my carpenter was too slow, i made my lab benches and a cupboard myself
<Ayla>
would you like to have gmenu2x work in a more unix way, with user conf/skins in $HM
<Ayla>
$HOME, and data in /usr/share/gmenu2x?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: anechoic = no echo (or, in the case of RF, no reflections). you use something called an anechoic chamber for proper RF or also audio tests
<Ayla>
my question is more, can I get rid of the current behaviour, ie. reading only the files located on the binary path
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: another piece of brain occupied by werner's knowledge
<tuxbrain>
Ayla: if the questions is than if I like the idea, yes I like it , but I'm just a user not developer :)
<Ayla>
well I don't know how it is used right now by the nanonote,
<Ayla>
but I believe it is an improvement
<tuxbrain>
Ayla: If you have the knowledge to do so go ahead :), who was the gmenu2x maintainer?
<Ayla>
well, I have the necessary rights to commit on the repo
<Ayla>
but I don't want to break things by introducing policy
<mth>
maybe ask xiangfu?
<Ayla>
maybe Qi guys prefer how it's currently set up
<Ayla>
if I can suppress the current behaviour, that saves me lots of time and code
<mth>
I think a more unix-style dir would be better, but it could break existing packaging scripts
<mth>
you could create a branch and if the change is accepted, merge it to master
<tuxbrain>
using you approach will be more easy to get rid of root as normal user but will also not hurt meanwhile it don't occurs , isn't it?
<Ayla>
yes
<Ayla>
basically, I just want to change the directories gmenu2x checks for its files
<Ayla>
mth, what do you mean by packaging scripts?
<tuxbrain>
Ayla: Openwrt makefiles
<mth>
the integration into openwrt
<wpwrak>
Ayla: if you could search the old and the new locations, that probbaly wouldn't break anything
<wpwrak>
Ayla: then, after a while, turn off the old
<mth>
not sure how openwrt does it, but buildroot copies files from the build dir to the target dir
<mth>
it doesn't run "make install"
<Ayla>
yes, that's what I've done right now
<Ayla>
but the code is quite ugly as there're exceptions everywhere
<mth>
an advantage of branching is that you can show the new situation to other people
<mth>
and they can test it to see what kind of impact it has
<Ayla>
yes, maybe it's a better idea
<Ayla>
than keeping the current way while trying to improve it
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: prettygerbv: new option  -d file  to show holes from a coverted drill file http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/e52f0db
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: makefiles/Makefile.kicad: also show drill holes in PNG illustrations http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/0ee8b42
<roh>
wpwrak: at some point you should make a flowchart of fileformats und and tools to convert them
<roh>
wpwrak: hehe.. just mentioning that because its getting difficult for ME to keep track of such things.. and i am more into such processes as the regular guy.. so getting an overview is harder than a year ago now
<wpwrak>
roh: signal and 8:10 shield ground are connected in the ben
<roh>
i see.
<wpwrak>
roh: yeah, when the dust settles, i'll have to make a little drawing with a lot of arrows
<roh>
wpwrak: is there really a gap in the antenna on atben?
<wpwrak>
roh: rounding error
<roh>
at the 90° point of the gnd and the signal feed onto the 'antenna'
<tuxbrain>
that ones I understad , was that little ones speraded arround the board
<tuxbrain>
ok to connect to the other side, the big ground , isn't it?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: yup. or also for signals
<tuxbrain>
ok that ugly bumps :)
<tuxbrain>
roh, any idea on atben/atusb envelop?
<tuxbrain>
envelop->cover->box->encapsulation
<roh>
not yet. its _really_ small
<roh>
its much smaller than i expected.
<roh>
even if i knew... its just the.. having it infront of you... hm.
<wpwrak>
welcome to the marvelous world of microelectronics :)
<tuxbrain>
another motto , price are high but damn it, they are _really_ small! :P
<tuxbrain>
roh, then maybe the best solution is a bath of plastic or silicon, with a beatifull tuxbrain logo on it :P
<roh>
i think for the atusb its a question of finding the right usb-stick-plastic case
<roh>
something made in china consisting of 2 parts being pressed together
<wpwrak>
roh: yeah, that would be an elegant solution. they may require some openings in the pcb, though.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: i think silicone is what we'll end up with, at least this time
<roh>
wpwrak: i just tried one which i had around from a fake-class-2-bluetooth-donge i took apart
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: if you use transparent silicone, you can simply put a tuxbrain sticker at the bottom, where you have plenty of space and where there is no other text
<wpwrak>
roh: pictures ! :)
<roh>
and it doesnt fit.. the usb plug needs to stand out further than its possible with the notches.
<wpwrak>
roh: (stand out) hmm, you mean the board+case assembly can't be fully inserted into the usb receptacle ?
<roh>
means the pcb needs to be tighter to the socket
<roh>
wpwrak: exactly.
<roh>
i think if i dont find another case i will trim away a bit of pcb there and fit it in
<wpwrak>
roh: hmm, it's already at the limit
<wpwrak>
roh: ah, so the case has some press-fit "columns" on the PC side, after the PCB ?
<roh>
it can be wider further away from the socket. just not at the 'corners of the case'
<roh>
exactly. something like small noses and tubes
<wpwrak>
ah, the width. okay, that can be trimmed a little