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[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JJgGV
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg a2664a1 - Added WaveRunner 8000M support
<azonenberg>
soooo close
<azonenberg>
glscopeclient compiles on my new scope
<azonenberg>
it even runs to the point of establishing a connection to the instrument
<azonenberg>
then dies with a segfault in the intel graphics card driver
<azonenberg>
have not attempted to debug
<azonenberg>
it's a skylake integrated card, should support compute shaders
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[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] https://git.io/JJgCm
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg 87727df - Better detection of -M option
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg 9009645 - ProtocolDecoder: use 64-bit ints for parameters instead of whatever "int" is
<azonenberg>
Sooo
<azonenberg>
i think with a bit of tuning to my CDR PLL
<azonenberg>
decoding 10GbE on this scope miiiight be doable
<azonenberg>
The eye is surprisingly open
<azonenberg>
don't get me wrong, it isn't readable
<azonenberg>
but it's close enough i think there's potential
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JJgWZ
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg 03f12c7 - LeCroyOscilloscope: initial hack of support for interleaved sample rate. Cannot be configured, but works if selected on the scope front panel.
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JJgWn
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg e703604 - If channels are unavailable due to interleaving etc, don't add them to the UI
<azonenberg>
right now only shown in normalized dB but i plan to have it read in dBm assuming a 50 ohm input eventually
<NeroTHz>
that makes sense
<azonenberg>
And again, only so many hours in the day to work on this :p
<azonenberg>
the CDR PLL definitely is in need of improvement so i think that will be my next priority. For 100baseTX i could get away with almost anything
<azonenberg>
now that i'm running up closer to nyquist with some of these protocol decodes and thinking about jitter analysis i actually need to do it right
<azonenberg>
The other thing i need to investigate is what's going on with my rise/fall time measurements
<azonenberg>
they're supposed to be properly interpolating the 20-80% values etc with sub-sample precision
<azonenberg>
but i'm seeing awfully discrete values which is making me think there's rounding going on somewhere
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] https://git.io/JJgE7
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-docs] azonenberg pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JJ2ej
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-docs] azonenberg 0c752cb - Documented DS1000D series being tested to work
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-docs] azonenberg 6399205 - Documented UART transport
<azonenberg>
noopwafel: so what's the status of #191 now? there's merge conflicts
<noopwafel>
yeah, I pulled out some parts of it for the other PRs
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg commented on pull request #182: set rx/tx timeout after connect, to avoid it being reset - https://git.io/JJ2vL
<azonenberg>
So is it redundant now?
<azonenberg>
or what
<noopwafel>
no, but can't be committed yet
<azonenberg>
OK i'll leave it as is then
<noopwafel>
will ping you once tidied (or else I guess you'll notice)
<noopwafel>
thanks
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JJ2vn
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-apps] noopwafel 0d852c4 - glscopeclient: Very slow scopes are not ahead of the UI.
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg d663bef - Merge pull request #152 from noopwafel/slow-scope glscopeclient: Very slow scopes are not ahead of the UI.
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg closed pull request #152: glscopeclient: Very slow scopes are not ahead of the UI. - https://git.io/JJgHl
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JJ2vC
<pepijndevos>
azonenberg, can I make clang fix coding style for me? :(
<azonenberg>
pepijndevos: there's a clang-format but it's close, not perfect. it tends to mess up things around GUI code
<azonenberg>
azonenberg/coding-policy is the coding style for your reference
<azonenberg>
basically curly braces go on their own line, not used for single line conditionals, indent four columns with a \t
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] pepijndevos synchronize pull request #182: set rx/tx timeout after connect, to avoid it being reset - https://git.io/JJWnF
<pepijndevos>
I deleted the braces... in the Github web interface like a savage
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-docs] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JJ2fv
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg closed pull request #182: set rx/tx timeout after connect, to avoid it being reset - https://git.io/JJWnF
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] https://git.io/JJ2fJ
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] pepijndevos a9e2677 - set rx/tx timeout after connect, to avoid it being reset
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] pepijndevos 3147af7 - Comply with code style
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg fcca2e6 - Merge pull request #182 from pepijndevos/timeout set rx/tx timeout after connect, to avoid it being reset
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg opened issue #203: Rewrite header comments to say "libscopehal" and not "Antikernel" - https://git.io/JJ2fl
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-apps] azonenberg opened issue #153: Rewrite header comments to say "scopehal-apps" and not "Antikernel" - https://git.io/JJ2f8
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] https://git.io/JJ2Tl
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg 62b3efd - Commented out debug spam
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal] azonenberg 3dd5be6 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:azonenberg/scopehal
<azonenberg>
Zooming in more, it appears that the cdr loses lock, jumps around wildly for a bit where it doesn't know which edge to track
<azonenberg>
then stabilizes on the wrong edge
<azonenberg>
tracks all the way across the eye then re-syncs
<azonenberg>
the UI is 800ps so +/- 300ps of error is almost an entire UI
<azonenberg>
and when it goes negative that really means it's wrapping around
<bvernoux>
azonenberg, I want a plugin for Spectrum Analyzer ;)
<bvernoux>
to plug my KC908 as HDSDR is really awfull !!!
<azonenberg>
bvernoux: So that actually wouldnt be that hard because i support frequency domain channels already as output of FFTs etc
<bvernoux>
yes it is why I say that ;)
<azonenberg>
In theory, all you'd have to do is make a new SpectrumAnalyzer class derived from Oscilloscope, then derive KC908 driver from that
<azonenberg>
and have one frequency domain channel
<bvernoux>
anyway it is a must to do like Tecktronix Series6
<azonenberg>
File load/save will probably break
<bvernoux>
mixing both domain !!
<bvernoux>
for advanced measurements
<azonenberg>
But basically everything else should work out of the box
<azonenberg>
Yes
<bvernoux>
Lecroy does not support that IIRC
<azonenberg>
They do not
<bvernoux>
in Tek instrument it is done in HW too
<bvernoux>
to help things
<azonenberg>
I can also get a secondhand lecroy without selling a kidney :p
<bvernoux>
ha really ?
<azonenberg>
if i get my hands on a tek6 i'd love to support that
<azonenberg>
My 4 GHz waverunner cost me $13K after trade-in
<bvernoux>
ha yes I would love a Tek6 too but entry price 25KUSD for 1GHZ version ;)
<bvernoux>
but Tek6 are 12bits also
<azonenberg>
original asking price on ebay was $20K. And lecroy secondhand stuff tends to be about ~48% off
<bvernoux>
does your latest scope is 8bits / 10 bits ore 12bits ?
<bvernoux>
ha yes very interesting price
<azonenberg>
Which means that this scope was probably around $38.40 MSRP
<azonenberg>
$38,400*
<azonenberg>
And that's without software options, which would probably push it close to $50K
<bvernoux>
will be interesting to find similar price for TEk6 ;)
<azonenberg>
It's 8 bit
<bvernoux>
but it is very very new ...
<azonenberg>
my HDO is 10 bit but i think does some weird oversampling tricks since it can't operate in 10 bit mode all the time
<azonenberg>
at lower sample rates (LOWER, which is odd) it runs in 8 bit mode
<azonenberg>
That's only 2 GHz
<azonenberg>
(and is out for service this week)
<bvernoux>
yes only very recent scope have 12bits 10 bits was a trick IIRC
<azonenberg>
lecroy has had 12 bit HDOs for quite a while
<azonenberg>
but they have historically been quite slow
<bvernoux>
Tek6 is 25GSPS 12bits natively IIRC
<azonenberg>
few hundred MHz bandwidth
<azonenberg>
only recently have they hit GHz in 12 biut
<azonenberg>
bit*
<bvernoux>
anyway for me 12bits is not a requirements ;)
<azonenberg>
Lecroy's fastest 12 bit scope afaik is the WavePro HD which is up to 8 GHz at 20 Gsps
<azonenberg>
Tek definitely has the edge there
<bvernoux>
Tek as the edge for mixing domain too ;)
<bvernoux>
and the Tek6 review show it is amazingly fast
<azonenberg>
I don't buy lecroy stuff because it's necessarily the best, i buy it because i have the contacts to get good-enough gear at prices i can afford
<azonenberg>
:p
<bvernoux>
as in previous Tek the GUI and speed was not very good ...
<bvernoux>
Anyway Lecroy are not far to be the best especially quality/price you have
<bvernoux>
at full price they are not interesting ;)
<bvernoux>
I doubt Keysight support mixed domain too
<bvernoux>
as IIRC Keysight are the most advanced on ultra high end Scope ...
<bvernoux>
they have something like 250GSPS monster ...
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<azonenberg>
And then i don't know a ton about R&S scopes
<bvernoux>
which cost multi million USD ;)
<miek>
it's kinda academic though, i don't think i'll be picking between who has the best 100GHz scope any time soon :p
<azonenberg>
Lol
<bvernoux>
I have seen a 5G Analyzer/Scope in Lab which cost >1.2MUSD ;)
<azonenberg>
miek: no, but a) secondhand stuff still comes down in price over time even for fairly high end
<azonenberg>
and b) at least some of the innovations on the high end eventually make their way down to midrange, if not low end
<bvernoux>
miek, yes it is better to find the one which is not too expensive and good enough ;)
<bvernoux>
main issue today is even scope with >15years old technology are crazy expensive
<bvernoux>
as the market is locked ...
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<azonenberg>
Which is where our custom scopes will be handy :p
<azonenberg>
Buuuut we're a long ways out from having something competitive with my current lecroy stuff
<bvernoux>
maybe not so long at the speed of update on github ;)
<bvernoux>
ok hw will take lot of time ...
<bvernoux>
but it is clearly a game changer versus those ultra expensive closed scope like Lecroy, Tek ...
<pepijndevos>
azonenberg, how do you afford to do all this open source stuff?
<azonenberg>
pepijndevos: time or budget?
<azonenberg>
Budget wise, I have a day job in embedded security that pays fairly well (low six figures) and i do occasional freelance hardware/firmware design gigs on the side
<azonenberg>
and i keep my expenses fairly low other than the lab so probably well over half my income after taxes, food, and housing goes into lab or project R&D stuff
<azonenberg>
actually it's probably like 98% after essentials goes into the lab :p
<azonenberg>
time wise, the virus situation has actually helped that greatly as i'm working from home more than i was previously
<azonenberg>
so not burning hours a day commuting
<azonenberg>
My job is also consulting and i frequently find myself with downtime between billable projects that i have to fill doing "something useful"
<azonenberg>
So if nobody has more specific direction for me i work on things like this because they're potentially useful at work
<azonenberg>
being able to rapidly understand the behavior of an embedded device you've never seen before is kind of our job description
<azonenberg>
So the more protocol decodes and analytics i have, the better
<azonenberg>
(the more advanced signal integrity etc focused stuff is mostly for my own projects vs $dayjob)
<azonenberg>
MAXWELL is actually a collaboration with a university that i originally got hooked up with through speaking at a conference for work, although $dayjob isn't sponsoring the project officially
<pepijndevos>
Ah cool
<azonenberg>
Work loves my lab because i'm about the only one in the seattle office who can still work on embedded projects for customers right now lol
<pepijndevos>
ahaha
<azonenberg>
everyone else is stuck at home with no lab and mostly doing more software oriented stuff
<azonenberg>
And i'm working from home with, honestly, a better setup than we have at the office
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
Their flagship scope at the lab is actually a hand-me-down
<azonenberg>
350 MHz lecroy i sold them when i got the 2 GHz scope
<azonenberg>
But it makes sense, they dont really do super high speed work for the most part
<azonenberg>
Most embedded security work is things like "dump this spi flash" or "sniff the uart between the mcu and cell modem" or "did they forget to disable jtag"
<azonenberg>
as well as more conventional software bugs like buffer overflows in web UIs and such
<azonenberg>
it's fairly rare that we do anything super fast. Although the project with MAXWELL is going to be pushing up there
<azonenberg>
but that's research with an outside institution, not billable work for a customer
<pepijndevos>
NORMal mode works so much better on Rigol!
<Degi>
How did you get scopehal on the waveruner? xD
<azonenberg>
Degi: compile it for windows using katharina's instructions, fix a few little things that broke re portability (since she got sick some of my recent changes didn't compile on windows, i'll fix that at some point)
<Degi>
And is it performant?
<azonenberg>
then just run it
<azonenberg>
it seems to work ok although i didnt stress it too hard, it was mostly a photo op
<Degi>
Can u just upload it to the scope and execute it on there?
<azonenberg>
Yeah its just a windows PC like any other
<azonenberg>
It's awkward to use because everything is done through the right click menu which needs a mouse, all of the protocol decoders and such expect keyboard input
<azonenberg>
so you need to plug in external usb input devices
<Degi>
No locking down etc for plugging a usb with software in?
<azonenberg>
no
<Degi>
Neat
<azonenberg>
they even have an official SDK that lets you integrate matlab etc as custom math functions
<azonenberg>
But it's $$$$
<Degi>
I guess the knobs don't work? xD
<azonenberg>
kinda-sorta
<azonenberg>
It can be done better
<azonenberg>
Anyway, doing that on a bench when i already have a separate PC with keyboard/mouse right next to the scope is kinda pointless
<azonenberg>
since i have a full 24" monitor i can run glscopeclient on
<azonenberg>
But down the road making it more touch friendly as an option (without sacrificing the primary design goal of being meant for PC use with a mouse) would be nice
<Degi>
yes
<_whitenotifier-b>
[scopehal-apps] pepijndevos commented on issue #146: glscopeclient hangs on Rigol MSO5000 - https://git.io/JJ2qM
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<lain>
hmm does it make more sense to put the last cal date or the cal due date for calibration standards?
<azonenberg>
Cal-due date is SOP from all of the certificates i've looked at in my binder
<lain>
kk
<lain>
yeah I guess that makes sense, since you'd mainly want to verify it's not past date
<azonenberg>
(i actually have a binder in a desk drawer with all of the cal certificates for my gear, and serial numbers written down so i don't have to crawl behind the rack all the time)
<lain>
yeah that looks great
<azonenberg>
As well as internal cal records for my power supplies, which do not have a current 17025 calibration
<azonenberg>
but i do an unofficially traceable cal using the ...847 DMM, which does have a valid traceable cal and one more significant digit than the PSU readouts
<azonenberg>
set to various voltages and measure output at 0, 10, 50, 90% full scale load
<monochroma>
yeah that looks nice! might need to setup a scriptable workflow to automatically generate screen shots and data for volume production
<azonenberg>
and repeat for current
<azonenberg>
then confirm it's within tolerance
<azonenberg>
That's acceptable for my purposes as i'm not using those PSUs to cal anything else
<azonenberg>
So having an internally traceable cal is sufficient for me to be happy
<azonenberg>
(very curious what is causing the huge dip in return loss around 1.5 GHz though,the pico probe has it too)
<azonenberg>
but the fancy 6 GHz pico probe tested in the same conditions has a much smaller bump at a higher freq
<azonenberg>
tip capacitance perhaps?
<azonenberg>
mine is less than the 1.5 GHz pico probe which is consistent with my estimated < 1.4 pF tip capacitance
<azonenberg>
(they're nominal 2 pF)
<azonenberg>
And yeah eventually i will want to automate it somewhat but short term only 2 kickstarter backers asked for the full workup
<azonenberg>
So i'm doing them manually
<monochroma>
yeah
<azonenberg>
plus a third one going to shahriar, this is actually his unit
<azonenberg>
looking forward to seeing what he has to say about it
<monochroma>
"Well as we can see, it's clearly a very very low bandwidth probe, it only goes out to 2GHz!" ;)
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
the running joke in the xdevs channel is that pretty much all of the stuff any of us are doing is just DC to nero