apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.2.0; 2.1.5; 2.0.0-p598; 1.9.3-p551: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste code on http://gist.github.com
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<headius> [spoiler]: mruby's C API is much better imo
<headius> it passes context to all methods, so you're not constantly using nasty globals
<headius> mruby is pretty neat
<apeiros_> no wonder, matz could reconsider all parts :)
<headius> yeah
<headius> if I had nothing else to work on, porting that API to C Ruby could change the world
* apeiros_ passes headius a time delation field generator
<headius> bliss
<apeiros_> *dilation
<apeiros_> you already in 2015 or still waiting for it to happen?
<darix> happy new year everyone.
<apeiros_> to you too, darix :)
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<nofxx_> "Programming is the art of thinking really hard about how to avoid having to think really hard"
<apeiros_> "Programming is the art of arguing with the world's most meticulous pedant"
<apeiros_> except if you code in C, then it's the egg-dance around undefined behavior.
<darix> "Yeah, there is an expectation how code *should* behave, and then there is Perl. :)"
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<[spoiler]> lol @ "except if you code in C, then it's the egg-dance around undefined behavior." :D
<[spoiler]> I couldn't agree more
<[spoiler]> *do something in ~10 lines of code* realise it's undefined behaviour, and just an implementation detail, *write 500 more lines of code to fix that*
<[spoiler]> brb
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<[spoiler]> oh. there's no `defined?` operator in mruby? :(
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<darix> [spoiler]: just defined?
<darix> or <something>_defined?
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<[spoiler]> darix: i meant the defined operator
<[spoiler]> defined?*
<[spoiler]> so `defined? monkeypoo`
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<darix> uhm i see various <something>_defined? in pry
<darix> but not a generic one
<[spoiler]> it's an operator, not a method
<darix> hm
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<[spoiler]> maybe that's why pry isn't detecting it
<darix> ic
<darix> there is your answer
<[spoiler]> ah
<[spoiler]> Yeah I knew defined? was complex
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<[spoiler]> but I didn't know they'd leave it out because of that
<[spoiler]> thanks :-)
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<darix> nn
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<[spoiler]> Hmm. Is there a way to check if a variable is defined without using `defined?` and without using a rescue block lol
<brocktimus> if
<brocktimus> ?
<brocktimus> do_something_with(foo) if foo
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<darix> [spoiler]: might be worth to ping in #1696
<darix> or maybe mruby has variable_defined?
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<darix> ugly way would be checking local_variables
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<[spoiler]> brocktimus: erm the thing is that mrb throws an exception
<[spoiler]> if you try that
<brocktimus> oh sorry, only just joined and didn't realise you were using mruby :)
<[spoiler]> dw, maybe I should've added "mruby" haha :-)
<darix> [spoiler]: something like def variable_defined?(name) ; local_variables.include? name.to_sym ;end
<darix> might work
<darix> untested
<[spoiler]> Hmm I didn't think of that
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<[spoiler]> that adds a lot of overhead though
<darix> [spoiler]: the other option would be just to initialize that variable to nil and use unless var.nil?
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<darix> anyway
<darix> now really nn
<[spoiler]> night! :D
<[spoiler]> (the init-to-nil was my idea too, but I was hoping there was a performant and "pretty" way fo doing it)
<[spoiler]> of*
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<darix> [spoiler]: init to nil and nil? check are probably faster than walking a potentially large local_variables array
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<[spoiler]> yep
<[spoiler]> + the variable array is generated on-the-fly
<[spoiler]> (that is, each time local_variabled is called)
<[spoiler]> local_variables
<brocktimus> I haven't looked at mruby much, but wouldn't my code above work if it was already initialized to nil? unless foo.nil? always seemed like a code smell to me
<brocktimus> if not ill go back into my hole since I dont know enough mruby :-P
<darix> brocktimus: it isnt smell
<darix> foo = nil
<darix> <large code block that might set useful value to foo>
<darix> dosomething unless foo.nil?
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<darix> depending what comes between the foo.nil? and the large code block that might be valid
<darix> e.g. exit the method on other conditions
<brocktimus> I just use the implicit that a nil variable evaluates to fall
<brocktimus> false*
<darix> brocktimus: but it isnt always false :)
<darix> large code block might set foo
<darix> think loading and parsing data e.g.
<brocktimus> Oh I get what you mean, so in cases where both false / nil are valid values and you just want to know if its been set or not?
<[spoiler]> > p "humf" unless a.nil?
<[spoiler]> (mirb):5: undefined method 'a' for main (NoMethodError)
<[spoiler]> omitting .nil? produces the same exception
<darix> uhm
<darix> a = nil ?:p
<[spoiler]> no no I didn't initialise it
<darix> [spoiler]: but you should :p
<[spoiler]> I know :D
<brocktimus> Depending on use case if completely unset is valid and different behaviour to set as nil / false a hash seems appropriate, don't know exact use case though
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<[spoiler]> Aaw? RubySpec is ending?! :(
<brocktimus> Read @headius feed + HN, more to it than meets the eye it seems
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<micaeked> I think I may have found a bug in 2.2 #instance_exec. This snip works in 2.1 but raises ArgumentError in 2.2. `proc = ->(foo = nil) { p(foo) }; instance_exec(["a", "b"], &proc)`
<micaeked> Or am I missing something?
<[spoiler]> darix: go to bed already!
<darix> and the follow up tweets on his stream
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<[spoiler]> Hmm. Should I use mruby's parser API, or just `mrb_load_nstring_cxt`? I'm asking because mrb_load_nstring_cxt seems to do the job just fine, but it feels a bit... hacky? Lmao
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<[spoiler]> I'm indecisive about whether I should use: mrbc_context/mrb_parser_parse/mrb_generate_code/mrb_context_run or mrbc_context_new/mrb_load_nstring_cxt lol. The latter seems way more simple to use than the former, although I feel like I'm setting a trap for myself?
<[spoiler]> meant to post this in mruby, sorry
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<smoitra> Hello I have written a blog on installing and managing ruby using rbenv pls tell me how can i improve it http://souravsrandomblog.blogspot.in/2015/01/installing-ruby-from-source-and.html
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<smoitra> Hello I have written a blog on installing and managing ruby using rbenv pls tell me how can i improve it http://souravsrandomblog.blogspot.in/2015/01/installing-ruby-from-source-and.html
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<[spoiler]> Happy new year, everyone!
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<benten> dblack around?
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<ruby-lang392> hello ruby commu ity!
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<ruby-lang392> I've been doing some research for a programming language to learn and km curious what I'd find on this irc. I'm familiar with c/c++ and Lua. but everything I see online says to learn ruby or python as a first language. should I keep with c. or should I learn ruby?
<yorickpeterse> ruby-lang392: that depends on what you need from a language
<yorickpeterse> it never hurts to look into it a bit and then decide if you want to continue or not
<yorickpeterse> but don't let others decide what you should (not) learn
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<godd2> yorickpeterse I think you just told him not to listen to you :P
<yorickpeterse> I told them to evaluate it themselves, not that they should or should not learn it
<ruby-lang392> I'm just looking for some advice.haha. and my end goal is game development but I'm expecting that to be a while.
<yorickpeterse> Which is different from "You have to learn it because my great uncle Billy really likes it"
<[spoiler]> ruby-lang392: don't listen to yorickpeterse; the answer is yes: learn ruby! At least it will make you a happier person
<[spoiler]> yorickpeterse: did ruby make you a happier person? :-)
<yorickpeterse> it certainly made me swear more
<yorickpeterse> But it did cure the depression I had when I was still writing PHP
<[spoiler]> See, case study finished. Ruby makes people happy!
<ruby-lang392> haha! that's quite convincing I will say. but if I don't plan on web development what wan I make with it?
<ruby-lang392> can*
<[spoiler]> Anything you would do in another language, though
<godd2> ruby-lang392 there are several cool ways you can do game development in ruby! One is Gosu (which requires your users to have ruby installed) but another is the gem "yeah" or the gem "dare" which compile ruby to javascript so it can be played in the browser
<[spoiler]> A language is just a toolbox for you to build tings
<[spoiler]> godd2: or he could pack mruby with the game ;)
<godd2> [spoiler] that's true.
<godd2> ruby-lang392 here's a game that was written in ruby: http://nicklink483.github.io/dare/tutorial
<yorickpeterse> ruby-lang392: well, Ruby is flexible enough that technically you can write pretty much anything in it
<ruby-lang392> I will be back! that ks guys (on my phone lol)
<darix> you would still write the critical parts in C/C++ but have game logic and stuff in python/lua/ruby
<darix> battlefield and EVE do that with python e.g.
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<ruby-lang392> so why would I choose ruby over Lua or python. (opinions expected)
<[spoiler]> Roby is more powerful than Lua, and looks nicer than Python. :P
<darix> ruby-lang392: really either is fine. familarity might be one thing. tooling another.
<[spoiler]> Ruby, no idea who this Roby dude is
<darix> [spoiler]: we knew before you had a crash on him. dont worry.
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<[spoiler]> :o
<yorickpeterse> ruby-lang392: Ruby is more mature than Lua, doesn't use 1-indexed arrays, more flexible language, though it's heavier resource wise
<[spoiler]> darix: I thought that was a secret!
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<[spoiler]> Yeah, significantly heavier to be fair
<yorickpeterse> Compared to Python: less messed up packaging system, libraries are more mature (in my opinion), standard library is much better
<darix> yorickpeterse: i am sure lua is quite mature itself. and you find a lot of high performance lua stuff in real world.
<yorickpeterse> darix: as in, Ruby has vastly more libraries, people behind it, etc
<yorickpeterse> At it's core I think Lua is probably better since it was from the ground up designed to be embeddable/lightweight/etc
<[spoiler]> Also, Ruby definitely has more language features than Lua, but that's because Lua was designed to be tiny
<yorickpeterse> I hate how it's not really openly developed though :|
<[spoiler]> what he said ^
<darix> http://snabb.co/ e.g. is mostly running luajit code. http://www.scalescale.com/scaling-cloudflares-massive-waf/ ... also nice
<darix> yorickpeterse: true.
<darix> yorickpeterse: but it is still surprising in how many places you find lua nowadays :)
<yorickpeterse> Oh yeah, it certainly isn't unheard of
<darix> [spoiler]: do you think mruby helps ruby to catch up to lua in regards of embedding?
<ruby-lang392> lol that's making me think I should just focus on Lua because I already know it a little
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<yorickpeterse> ruby-lang392: learning is never a waste of time
<darix> ruby-lang392: if you want OO. (and you probably want) ruby or python might be better.
<darix> ruby-lang392: and then we might be a bit biased. but use ruby :)
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<[spoiler]> darix: yes definitely; mruby is really cool so far :-)
<[spoiler]> Also extending the language is *breezy as fuck* (pardon my french)
<ruby-lang392> ruby? or lua
<[spoiler]> I'm talking about mruby/ruby
<ruby-lang392> ah
<darix> ruby-lang392: https://github.com/mruby/mruby
<ruby-lang392> OK guys, ill give it a try! I hope I'll be back here to chat with ya soon
<[spoiler]> also it's somewhat faster than MRI (the "default" ruby) because it cuts away some language features
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<darix> like defined? ;) *scnr*
<[spoiler]> Have fun with ruby ruby-lang392! :-)
<[spoiler]> darix: LOL
<boulderruby> test
<[spoiler]> you nailed it :P
<boulderruby> alright alright
<darix> i wonder if an erlang style actor implementation would be good for games
<darix> so using celluloid for a game e.g.
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<godd2> darix I'm not sure. I think most things in a game you'd want to react "instantaneously" to some external state change. Or at least, as quickly as you'd expect for the properties of some thing in the game.
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<godd2> So like, you wouldn't want to asynchronously update a healthbar. You'd want it to happen as soon as possible
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<godd2> But I suppose I could imagine it working for something like dwarf fortress, where the dwarves "get around" to doing work
<darix> godd2: nobody said actors are slow :)
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<godd2> I'm not saying their slow, just that there's no guarantee that the work gets done before some other event occurs. That is, if there's a queue of messages which decrease your healthbar, youd want them to resolve to see if the player is dead before he tries to do anything else.
<godd2> they're*
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<godd2> but for a dwarf, it wouldn't matter, because they can choose to ignore messages haha
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<darix> i think the actual computing work should be about the same between both models
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<godd2> oh I wasn't making a claim on the efficiency of one model over the other. I was just saying that a lot of the time, state changes are synchronous in games.
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<darix> from my recent experiences i can tell you "mostly"
<darix> some recent games had funny bugs like "you crouch and still get the headshot as if you looked over the crate"
<darix> and that wasnt just network latency
<godd2> lol "yeah, the bounding box will get around to diminishing, but it doesn't happen synchronously"
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<godd2> I'm trying to think of other applications of asynchronous message passing. Maybe like, a stealthy game where you make a sound, but the guard may have a delayed reaction to you.
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<godd2> I wonder what would happen if you simulated traffic flow that way. Make it the traffic engine of a sim city game or something
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<boulder-ruby> is there a ruby chatroom for noobs? I want noob questions to answer
<Lewix> Happy new year!
<boulder-ruby> makes me feel smart
<godd2> Lewix Happy new year!
<mustmodify> boulder-ruby: Well then try signing up for RailsHotline. :)
<godd2> boulder-ruby haha well in #ruby people come is asking easier questions
<red_menace> boulder-ruby: there is ##new2ruby
<mustmodify> Though there's some bug and I can't sign in lately to put myself on call.
<boulder-ruby> thanks
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<boulder-ruby> ahh 33 members not bad
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<godd2> boulder-ruby also, even if there isn't a question you can answer, it's a good strategy to see the answers to the questions and google about them to learn more about Ruby :)
<godd2> and if you don't know yet, you can use >> to show little examples that get evaluated
<godd2> >> "hello".reverse.upcase
<eval-in__> godd2 => "OLLEH" (https://eval.in/238798)
<boulder-ruby> Most of the questions I can answer on stackoverflow have 0 votes, and no answers yet. Stackoverflow makes it actually kind of hard to find these now
<red_menace> yeah, everything just got lumped together
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<[spoiler]> ruby questions on SO = Rails question
<[spoiler]> questions*
<[spoiler]> lol
<red_menace> it does now
<red_menace> used to be able to filter that out
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<boulder-ruby> confusing rails with ruby is an acceptable sin I guess. we rubyists can tolerate parallel inheritance (muahaha)
<[spoiler]> Lmao
<boulder-ruby> it makes more sense the less you think about. #ruby
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<boulder-ruby> Just kidding
<boulder-ruby> Some sort of object-oriented trip, Steven Jobs shit
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<mustmodify> I wonder if you could create a google search that helped to filter that out. `ruby site:stackoverflow.com -active -rails`
<ljarvis> you can just ignore tags
<ljarvis> or search for "ruby -rails" on SO
<red_menace> that doesn't work anymore
<ljarvis> how so? that search works fine for me
<red_menace> it just resets to everything for me
<red_menace> I had a search that excluded rails, but everything is just lumped into ruby
<[spoiler]> ljarvis: i meant that most people tag stuff with just "ruby" without "rails" these days
<ljarvis> oh
<[spoiler]> and often these questions aren't retagged
<ljarvis> heh yeah
<red_menace> well, they eventually get retagged by those looking for some points
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<mustmodify> this looks promising.
<mustmodify> boulder-ruby: ^^^
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<[spoiler]> godd2: ugh I can't stop playing that silly spacecraft game you linked
<godd2> oh lol you can code it yourself here: https://github.com/nicklink483/dare/wiki/Ruby-Tutorial
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<[spoiler]> but it won't be as fun as this
<darix> [spoiler]: will you back to embed mruby in your app now! *stern look*
<[spoiler]> darix: O, what do you mean?
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<darix> werent you working on that?
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<[spoiler]> what does "will I back" mean though
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<darix> go back ...
<[spoiler]> Oh!
<darix> forgot "go"
<darix> :p
<[spoiler]> :D
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<[spoiler]> There's some dirty work I need to do first
<[spoiler]> erm that sounded odd
<darix> no details please
<[spoiler]> so I am procrastinating
* [spoiler] is sorry
<darix> or watch the perl video i linked a few days ago
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<[spoiler]> LMAO
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<chris2> gah, why is rb_time_nano_new not exposed as a method?
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<godd2> >> Time.now.nsec
<eval-in__> godd2 => 47614688 (https://eval.in/238814)
<chris2> yes, but i want to create a time object
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<godd2> Time.now creates a time object.
<chris2> but not from nsec directly
<yorickpeterse> ^ it assumes seconds as input
<yorickpeterse> although you could probably convert the nanoseconds to seconds as a float, then use that as input
<chris2> that loses precision probably
<chris2> ok, Time.at(s, Rational(n, 1000)) works
<chris2> roundtrips here
<yorickpeterse> heh
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<ddd> i'm not looking to start trouble, I'm honestly trying to understand (since I'm way below that paygrade). What does RubySpec project closing down mean for the various implementations?
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<yorickpeterse> ddd: little
<ddd> i saw the tweets about it today and read a couple of the blog posts regarding it, but i'm unsure what that represents i guess over time
<yorickpeterse> ddd: Opal has been using its own fork for a while since they had to make some changes, JRuby pulls specs into their own repository (just as Rbx does)
<yorickpeterse> MRI apparently is using a fork from 2013 with some custom changes
<yorickpeterse> It most likely has more of an impact on whoever was still maintaining rubyspec/rubyspec than it has on the rest
<ddd> is it going to be internalized to rbx only then?
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<yorickpeterse> Rbx will continue using the same style of specs, they just won't be part of RubySpec
<yorickpeterse> e.g. in the past we'd write a spec in the Rbx repo, make it pass, then sync it back to RubySpec for others to use
<[spoiler]> ddd: Well, rbx won't need to abide to the rubyspec now. I think Rubinius has wanted to divert from MRI for a while now
<yorickpeterse> (or the other way around)
<yorickpeterse> [spoiler]: we will not divert from MRI
<[spoiler]> oh
<yorickpeterse> That is, we're not making our own Ruby
<[spoiler]> maybe I confused it with rubiniusx then
<yorickpeterse> We might choose not to implement certain parts because of reasons, but those are rare occassions
<ddd> i'm not sure who works on which implementation so i'm asking as a whole
<yorickpeterse> In fact, the only one I can think of now are refinements
<yorickpeterse> [spoiler]: Rbx-x will indeed be a separate thing, developed separately from rbx
<ddd> i mean i know brixen works on rbx, headius on jruby, and matz on mri, but thats kind of the limit of my knowledge of who is who
<yorickpeterse> ddd: jruby is mainly headius, enebo, chrisseaton and eregon
<yorickpeterse> (from the top of my head)
<ddd> isn't evanph jruby as well?
<yorickpeterse> MRI is matz, nobu, koichi, nurse, yugui, zzak and a few others
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<godd2> and tenderlove is all of them
<[spoiler]> lol ^
<ddd> ah. i recognize a few of those names
<yorickpeterse> ddd: you mean Evan Phoenix?
<ddd> yeah
<yorickpeterse> No, he created Rbx initially
<ddd> think hsi twitter is evanph
<ddd> ahh
<ddd> err his
<yorickpeterse> He might have commit bit, but I don't recall him working on Jruby actively
<ddd> gotcha. i'm an end user of the 'product'. not sure, as i said, of who is who
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<ddd> if you minus the .. bad blood? attitude? regarding brixen (no offense intended, just noticing), what generally in the community of implementors keeps RS from being unilaterally used? From what *I* can glean it just seems its a matter of each impl doing their own thing. (not a bad thing)
<yorickpeterse> I have honestly no idea
<ddd> did i miss what was going on, or is that an accurate summation? (Feel free to tell me to stfu, its just me wondering what all the hooplah was over, or what was driving the wedge so to speak)
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<yorickpeterse> ddd: there's nothing wrong with asking these questions
<ddd> i see RS as a good thing from what I understand of it's intended use, but then again I'm not an implementer so I don't know if there's something else only the impls see that I wouldn't without being involved on that level
<yorickpeterse> One of the rationale was people not getting along, which is odd because I had a discussion about this months ago stating people should just come to me in that case (so I'd basically be their proxy)
<ddd> cool. i just saw what seemed like a lot of anger and frustration all around so i was really hesitant to ask anything.
<yorickpeterse> That being "if X does not get along with Y, tell X to come to me and I'll see what I can do"
<ddd> but my curiosity got the better of me heheh
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<ddd> that sounds reasonable to me
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<yorickpeterse> But sadly in the past year at least nobody made any attempts whatsoever
<yorickpeterse> and now people are saddened/angry that we're pulling the plug
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<ddd> evan did the same thing *way* back when brixen and I had a falling out over something RVM related (when I was active on the project) and it worked fairly well for the 3 of us. we didn't clash as much (or at least we got to vent just not to each other)
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<yorickpeterse> heh, RVM
<yorickpeterse> that still triggers certain responses :P
<ddd> yeah i know.
<ddd> sstephenson and i are still not talking :)
<ddd> but i get it
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<ddd> anyways, for the RS topic, thank you for letting me ask and for the responses.
<mustmodify> anybody have a way to find the 'scale' of a BigDecimal other than just ... multiplying, truncating and seeing if it's the same?
<yorickpeterse> mustmodify: scale for what?
<yorickpeterse> ddd: np
<mustmodify> BigDecimal.new('3.12345').original_scale = 5
<mustmodify> s/=/==
<yorickpeterse> euh
<mustmodify> as in mysql terminology... places after the decimal.
<mustmodify> I guess I could override the constructor but no. :)
<yorickpeterse> oh right
<mustmodify> It'd be easier with a regex.
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<ddd> back to configuring win8 and kubuntu for android dev. again, thanks. And Happy New Year to all! :)
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<yorickpeterse> mustmodify: here's a wonderful hack:
<[spoiler]> ddd: thanks and happy new year to you too!
<yorickpeterse> >> require 'bigdecimal'; BigDecimal.new('3.12345').split[1].length - 1
<eval-in__> yorickpeterse => 5 (https://eval.in/238815)
<yorickpeterse> but I'm pretty sure I recall seeing a method for this either in BigDecimal or Rational
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<mustmodify> yorickpeterse: split?
<mustmodify> yorickpeterse: hunh
<[spoiler]> I didn't know BigDecimal had split; does it split xxx.yyy into [ xxx, yyy ]?
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<|jemc|> [spoiler]: ri BigDecimal#split
<[spoiler]> |jemc|: too lazy :P
<|jemc|> the docs will help :)
<mustmodify> no, it splits into [ -1/1, sigfigs, base_10, exponent ]
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<mustmodify> >> require 'bigdecimal'; BigDecimal.new('3.12345').split
<eval-in__> mustmodify => [1, "312345", 10, 1] (https://eval.in/238816)
<yorickpeterse> Alternatively you could probably do this:
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<yorickpeterse> oh hm, that won't work
<yorickpeterse> dar
<yorickpeterse> * darn
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<mustmodify> yorickpeterse: that's super helpful... I ended up with ignore, sigfigs, base, exp = *self.split ; sigfigs.length - exp
<yorickpeterse> Also, the -1 probably needs to be -X for X.000000
<yorickpeterse> so if it's 23 it needs to be -2 probably
<mustmodify> yorickpeterse: right, that's why I used the fourth part of split.
<yorickpeterse> Ah ok
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<mustmodify> yorickpeterse: thanks, that was a tremendous help.
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