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<jdecuirm>
Hi!
<jdecuirm>
I have a little question about subdirectories in Ruby x3
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<jdecuirm>
I am checking RbConfig::CONFIG["terms"] in irb, but it returns me nil, so i guess it does not exist, but, is that directory supposed to be with the installation right?
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<havenwood>
jdecuirm: What's Ruby x3?
<havenwood>
jdecuirm: What's 'term'?
<havenwood>
jdecuirm: In irb or Pry maybe take a look at: RbConfig::CONFIG.keys
<jdecuirm>
that's the difference between static language over dynamic i guess
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<wallerdev>
lol no that repo is a joke
<centrx>
Ruby has nice features over other dynamic languages as well
<centrx>
wallerdev, no, look at the top, it says "FizzBuzz Enterprise Edition is a no-nonsense implementation of FizzBuzz made by a serious businessman for serious business purposes."
<wallerdev>
:p
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<jdecuirm>
I'm learning ruby to go to Rails
<jdecuirm>
because i need a backend
<jdecuirm>
is it a good choice?
<centrx>
cool
<centrx>
Yes, Rails is great
<centrx>
even if you only need ActiveRecord or ActiveSupport, you can use them on their own
<jdecuirm>
Excellent!
<jdecuirm>
I'm not really much of a server side guy, but i was thinking in Rails, apache for server, and mysql for database
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<wallerdev>
pretty standard stuff
<jdecuirm>
As i don't like to pay for BaaS, like parse or even heroku. In fact one of the main points for using rails is a gem that i found
<centrx>
jdecuirm, Usually something like nginx with unicorn/puma/some other animal/rainbows is used for the web server
<centrx>
jdecuirm, Also I would recommend using PostgreSQL over MySQL
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<centrx>
jdecuirm, or at least MariaDB over MySQL
<jdecuirm>
to push notifications
<wallerdev>
haha i dont think itll matter much for him centrx
<jdecuirm>
oh! thanks centrx
<jdecuirm>
i have to get my hands on that!
<centrx>
wallerdev, Are you suggesting he doesn't want an awesome setup whatever it is!?
<wallerdev>
yes
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<centrx>
Outrageous
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<jdecuirm>
nginx and postgradeSQL
<jdecuirm>
will check on them!
<wallerdev>
postgrade lol
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<jdecuirm>
I just need to create API's for mobile devices
<jdecuirm>
but jumping from those languages to server side it's a little difficult because i don't have a web development background
<SuMo_D>
hi room
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<SuMo_D>
I'm trying to use https://github.com/hybridgroup/artoo-raspi - the artoo gem with a raspi, I'm still new to ruby, so I'm not sure how to execute the code once I have it written?
<jdecuirm>
Hello
<SuMo_D>
I have rails and ruby 2.1.2 installed on my raspi
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<centrx>
SuMo_D, with rails you do: rails server or rails run (rails s or rails r)
<centrx>
SuMo_D, to run a ruby script, it's just: ruby <filename>
<SuMo_D>
I'm used to working with arduinos, where there is a compiler, so I'm not sure how to do that with ruby where there's no compiler
<centrx>
SuMo_D, The "ruby" executable is called an interpreter, it compiles it on the fly, running it at the same time
<SuMo_D>
centrx cool! yeah I thought that's what it was, but I wasn't sure if its in a directory do I put the /examples/test/led_test.rb like that?
<centrx>
SuMo_D, right yes, or change to that directory
<centrx>
SuMo_D, it works the same as regular file handling in Unix
<SuMo_D>
great, thanks centrx so incredibly helpful
<centrx>
SuMo_D, Also FYI there are also channels #ruby and #rubyonrails on here
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<SuMo_D>
my background is in graphics and education, and I mess around with physical computing, a friend talked me into taking a high level professional development course in RoR + Postgresql
<SuMo_D>
so I'm trying to bring it all together
<wallerdev>
awesome
<centrx>
software engineering is great
<SuMo_D>
yeah, dove in at the deep end though, so.... there are gaps
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<wallerdev>
yeah studying CS filled in a lot of gaps I had from just copy paste coding lol
<SuMo_D>
I help run a group that teaches kids 7-17 about software development and physical computing and would love it if we could use ruby somehow
<wallerdev>
the college i went to started teaching the intro to programming class in python
<wallerdev>
used to be c++
<SuMo_D>
yeah we've done a lot of python with the kids
<SuMo_D>
and Arduino is a C variant
<wallerdev>
ruby can be a little too flexible for a first language imo
<centrx>
otoh Ruby is magic, so great for children
<SuMo_D>
yeah, not sure if I'd start them on it, but for some of the older students projects
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<SuMo_D>
the young ones usually respond well to scratch
<wallerdev>
i heard minecraft is the teaching tool of the future for kids
<SuMo_D>
yes
<SuMo_D>
they go crazy for it
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<womble>
Ruby should be fine as a first language. Good REPL, no boilerplate required, no immediate gotchas that'll confuse or frustrate them.
<SuMo_D>
I wonder what microsoft is going to do with it though :/
<wallerdev>
i never got into it myself but id probably be really into it as a kid
<centrx>
instead of playing with blocks, now they play with virtual blocks
<wallerdev>
and a lot of my friends my age still play haha
<SuMo_D>
this is also a good starter one and I'm a big fan of www.codecademy.com
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<SuMo_D>
I was trying to study some ruby before I took it, and honestly I think in the 30 hour class we spent maybe an hour and a half at most on ruby
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<SuMo_D>
it was all rails and postgresql which ok postgresql is pretty badass for what it is
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<SuMo_D>
but... not what I was expecting from an "intro" class :/
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<jdecuirm>
But you didn't feel as comfortable to begin something
<SuMo_D>
albiet intro for developers...
<jdecuirm>
I really don't know much about C, is in fact the little i know it's because Objective-C
<SuMo_D>
well I still have a hard time going back into the application we built and making sure I pass the calls I want to modify correctly cause I don't know the sytnax sometimes
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<SuMo_D>
which.... ruby syntax isn't really that hard.... but it still exists
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<SuMo_D>
and is different than yeah, C or python
<wk>
SuMo_D, I can't code anything without internet available.
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<jdecuirm>
Amen to that wk
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<jdecuirm>
Is not as easy to have an html cheat sheet after all
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<jdecuirm>
In fact i guess the harder part of developing is knowing the libraries of the language you have
<wk>
jdecuirm, I learned C after learning Ruby, now I really think they're similar, on the basics at least
<SuMo_D>
well you guys are making me feel better
<SuMo_D>
I was joking with a friend this week
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<SuMo_D>
the internet is a perpetual 15 year old
<SuMo_D>
you ask it for help and its like oh its so easy!!!! 235q324q 346q3y4q34 see! how could you not know that
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<jdecuirm>
lol
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<wk>
I feel the same way
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<wk>
or maybe I'm the only dumb person around... :D
<jdecuirm>
In fact i hate some communities because of their lack of patience with new developers
<SuMo_D>
part of why I'm a fan of the maker movement
<jdecuirm>
Now, that i found this ruby community i feel comfortable
<jdecuirm>
like, they just understand you
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<SuMo_D>
which... yeah has its flaws too... as do a lot of the new woman coder inatitves.... but, they're all from a place of hey, we all can learn and lets learn together and I appreciate that
<jdecuirm>
Yeah, you can find interesting people here
<SuMo_D>
:) cool
<jdecuirm>
i suffered a lot because i have a project in my mind
<jdecuirm>
but well, i'm a lonely developer
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<jdecuirm>
so, backend and mobile frontend it's what i have to do
<SuMo_D>
well thankfully the internet and irc make us all a little less lonely loners
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<jdecuirm>
So, i began with objective-c in january
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<jdecuirm>
i feel comfortable with it and in june the hard part
<jdecuirm>
How the heck i can do a backend?!
<jdecuirm>
i went from php, to think about python etc
<wk>
jdecuirm, objective-c for iOS or OSX programming?
<jdecuirm>
It's kinda sad that most of the online courses
<jdecuirm>
for iOS wk!
<jdecuirm>
all online courses go for things like parse
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<jdecuirm>
or heroku, or tools that in fact facilitates the backend process, but i guess it's an art that should be missed like that
<wk>
jdecuirm, what are your plans, a website + iOS app?
<jdecuirm>
In fact wk, i need API's, i'm not thinking right now in a website
<jdecuirm>
create JSON data to be consumed by a mobile device
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<wk>
jdecuirm, will you use Sinatra? I think Sinatra is easier than Rails, besides being lighter
<jdecuirm>
In fact wk, that was part of the discussion yesterday! lol, but they told me that rails has more support for that and a bigger community
<centrx>
jdecuirm, Rails is also easier/quicker because it is a complete package that has the functionality you probably need
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<centrx>
jdecuirm, but Sinatra is much leaner and faster at serving requests
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<jdecuirm>
Oh! thanks centrx
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<jdecuirm>
in fact one of the main reasons for using rails, was a gem that let me do push notifications
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<wk>
jdecuirm, all the code will be closed source? Even the api?
<jdecuirm>
I don't think so wk, in fact after finishing my own project i will make a blog just for teaching technologies involved in mobile apps
<jdecuirm>
so i will use all i'm learning to help others getting in the mobile app development
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<wk>
maybe I could help, or try to help at least, I would learn a lot by working on a project. I have always coded on my own, I have a lot of gaps to fill.
<jdecuirm>
That would be great, just let me fill some gaps with ruby too, and we could work together!
<epitron>
anyhow, "old" tk was the one that came with ruby 1.8 :)
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<wk>
epitron, that's when I tested it
<epitron>
the one that comes with 2.x should let you change from win95 to a nicer looking one by just setting a variable
<jdecuirm>
So, you don't have tools to draw? like objective-c, java or c#?
<epitron>
it probably defaults to ugly though
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<wk>
jdecuirm, in TK and Shoes there's no tool to help, you make the GUI with text.
<jdecuirm>
Dear lord, lol well, in objective - c i get used to create some custom interfaces with only code, so i guess is not that bad
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<epitron>
programming basically sucks \o/
<centrx>
unless it's rubby
<jdecuirm>
lol
<jdecuirm>
epic comment centrx
<jdecuirm>
the first language i'm enjoying learning
<epitron>
ruby: making programming suck a bit less
<jdecuirm>
with java at first i just wanted to throw away my computer and take a bag with clothes and begin another life in the forest.
<wk>
lol
<wk>
just looking at a hello world in java made me avoid it
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<jdecuirm>
Lol
<jdecuirm>
and just to print
<jdecuirm>
System.out.println("Hello World");
<jdecuirm>
and you'll gonna hate the ; thing
<centrx>
Java is basically better than C++, and then was adopted by half the companies and universities on the planet
<wk>
but apparently it's quite complete, like Ruby, there's gems for almost anything, I miss that in other languages
<ericwood>
I wouldn't compare Java and C++ for a lot of things
<jdecuirm>
Yeah, but for example java for web services tend to be expensive!
<ericwood>
apples and oranges, etc.
<ericwood>
JVM is awesome for web services
<jdecuirm>
but servers tend to not be cheap
<jdecuirm>
and i'm poor :c
<centrx>
ericwood, as far as being more intuitive and object-oriented compared to C++ of 1995 or whenever it was
<ericwood>
centrx: C++ has a lot going for it in terms of low-level programming
<ericwood>
stuff Java was never meant for
<jdecuirm>
like php, they give you free hosting and almost with it a coke and some fries
<ericwood>
not that you can't do those things in Java
<ericwood>
C++ is weird in that it tries to be everything to everyone
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<centrx>
C is good for that too so it puts C++ in a less useful middle ground
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<ericwood>
I never enjoyed my time with C++
<ericwood>
I agree in it kind of fitting in an awkward middle ground
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<wk>
on the subject of the right language for the problem, I am confused about Ruby on Rails, NodeJS and Go...
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<ericwood>
depends on the problem you're solving
<centrx>
Go is cool
<centrx>
Node.js is silly when it is over-used
<centrx>
Ruby is magical
<wk>
Apparently Rails is the best for productivity, fast development and small to big projects, but NodeJS serves for the same, isn't it?
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<ericwood>
node.js is great for web sockets
<ericwood>
Go is neato! I like it
<ericwood>
we used a mixture of Go and Rails on a recent project
<centrx>
wk, Rails is a complete package that includes most of the components you need
<ericwood>
some of the API stuff being in Rails was really beneficial, but subsystems that were performance-critical were Go
<wk>
And I see most people saying Go is good for APIs and small things, why? Because of productivity?
<centrx>
wk, and it does not have the potentially complicated logic of event callbacks like node.js
<jdecuirm>
Node.js is javascript for backends right?
<centrx>
wk, Go is a language with nice syntax, some of the speed of C, and additional concurrency features
<ericwood>
yes
<ericwood>
it's a whole framework though
<ericwood>
there's a lot more to it...it has a weird single-threaded concurrency model etc.
<ericwood>
but it's built on top of V8, Chrome's JS engine
<jdecuirm>
in fact i was thinking the Erlang way just before Ruby came into play
<wk>
So, Rails for Websites, Go for backend processing, and NodeJS excells at what?
<jdecuirm>
Because of the concurrency
<ericwood>
wk: websockets
<wk>
jdecuirm, Elixir, looks awesome
<centrx>
Elixir is a nice combination of Erlang and Ruby syntax
<ericwood>
I really want to dig into elixir more
<jdecuirm>
Yeah i heard about it
<ericwood>
wk: just play with all of the above tools and you'll find their strengths and weaknesses
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<wk>
ericwood, NodeJS for live, interactive things then?
<ericwood>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<jdecuirm>
But Erlang and Scala are the top for API's because of the massive information and request they can support, as far as i have read
<wk>
like a chat?
<ericwood>
you can use it for all kinds of things, wk
<ericwood>
but if you're working specifically with websockets you don't want Rails...
<jdecuirm>
for a chat, erlang can fit
<ericwood>
yeah
<jdecuirm>
specially if you're using xmpp protocol
<ericwood>
erlang is great
<jdecuirm>
because of the concurrency
<ericwood>
not super user-friendly (imho) but an awesome language on an amazing VM
<jdecuirm>
yeah that's true ericwood
<jdecuirm>
I was working with Ejabberd and some Erlang a while, but the xmppframework for iOS made me dizzy
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<pyrmont>
wk: There are a few different situations in which I imagine someone might want to use NodeJS. The clearest situations is where you want to write server-side software that handles multiple simultaneous connections from clients. NodeJS uses an event-driven model which avoids some of the difficulties of concurrent programming (managing multiple threads) while getting some of the benefits.
<wk>
ericwood, Atom.io is a good example of NodeJS usage? That would be hard to do with another language.
<pyrmont>
wk: Another situation might be where you want a web app that is divided such that a fair amount of the app runs on the client (ie. the browser). Using NodeJS allows you to write the server-side component in JavaScript which can make development faster and communication between the server-side and the client-side (which has to be written in JavaScript since it's running in the browser).
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<ericwood>
wk: it's a weird example of node usage
<wk>
lol
<ericwood>
but you can do cool things in node
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<wk>
then Node is not really a Rails alternative, but is in a bit different niche, besides being able to do the same things.
<ericwood>
nailed it
<jdecuirm>
Rails came to kick php ass, lol
<jdecuirm>
so html 5, css 3, javascript and RoR are the new hit! lol
<jdecuirm>
Still i'm thinking why Twitter changed to Scala.
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<wk>
so, for a common website Rails is the tool, but as more interactive is needed Node starts being better/easier than Rails, which would need lots of JS to achieve it
<jdecuirm>
I heard was by the overload of the servers...so, what happened with Rails there?
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<wk>
jdecuirm, I guess they still use Rails for the site, which is fast enough, but use Scala to process data, images and such.
<jdecuirm>
Nice thinking wk. Sounds right!
<pyrmont>
wk: Rails is a robust framework for developing web applications. Whether it's the best tool for the job depends on the requirements of your web application. It's very difficult to generalise for a 'common website'.
<wk>
jdecuirm, a lot of people is using Go for that now
<jdecuirm>
Cool, Go, i need to check that!
<wk>
pyrmont, for who has no webdev experience, any site is a 'common website' I can't really make a distinction here, but I was imagining things like a blog, forum and such, something I may be able to build alone.
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<wk>
that's why I wanted to understand where Node and Go were best used, to better decide on where to invest my time, now I see its better to invest in RoR and Go for now.
<wk>
You guys helped a lot, I was kinda lost on that.
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<pyrmont>
wk: Best of luck. Just remember that no one tool can solve every problem. One of the best skills you can have as a programmer is the ability to analyse a problem. If you can do that, you'll be in a better place to evaluate the wealth of options available to you.
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<wk>
pyrmont, well, I'll probably have to try using it to know what is best.
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<pyrmont>
wk: Consider the two websites you mentioned in your post: a blog and a forum. A blog typically has a very high ratio of consumers (people viewing the content) to creators (people making the content). For that type of website, the best thing might be a static website that is just a bunch of static text files. While that might be more painful for the creators, it will result in a faster website for the consumers. And since there are few creators relative
<pyrmont>
wk: Experimenting is definitely a good idea :)
<jdecuirm>
how can i check if ri and rdoc are installed or something
<jdecuirm>
lol
<wk>
pyrmont, I haven't really noticed the differences before, a Forum has a lot more content changes than a Blog
<jdecuirm>
i put in console ri String#upcase and "Nothing known about String#upcase
<wk>
that answer would probably mean it is installed
<jdecuirm>
But there's no documentation right?
<wk>
if ri wasn't installed you OS would say ri command not found or something like that
<wk>
apparently, yes
<wk>
I haven't installed ruby here yet, just reinstalled my computer
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<jdecuirm>
hate this, even with Array#each it's throwing that xd
<pyrmont>
wk: Right. So because it has a lot more content changes, you probably want to use a tool that makes it easy to modify content from many different users. That suggests you want to use a database of some kind. But writing code that talks directly to a database is pretty painful so something like Rails might be a good choice in that situation because it contains elements (like ActiveRecord) that make it easier to communicate with a database.
<wk>
pyrmont, now I understand, I was always thinking about Rails or Sinatra, Ruby or Other Lang, not much about the approach to building the app
<centrx>
jdecuirm, I always use the website
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<pyrmont>
wk: Right. It's also worth making sure it's clear in your own mind not only what tools are out there, but what type of tools they are. Rails and Sinatra are frameworks for writing web applications in Ruby. While a particular framework (eg. Rails) might be the wrong choice for a problem, a different framework in the same language (eg. Sinatra) might be what you need. Alternatively, you might realise after thinking about the problem that the disadvantage
<wk>
pyrmont, some of your messages are getting truncated here, I don't know if It's an erro on my App, the last message stopped at "thinking about the problem that the disadvantag"
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<pyrmont>
Ah, I have to get used to writing in IRC.
<womble>
Or get a client that splits messages.
<centrx>
pyrmont, one line per long sentence is good
<pyrmont>
wk: Alternatively, you might realise after thinking about the problem that the disadvantages of the particular langauge (eg. Ruby) rule it out and a different language (eg. JavaScript) might be a better choice.
<pyrmont>
womble: I'm testing out Shout which doesn't do that yet :(
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<pyrmont>
womble: But point well made!
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* womble
instinctively thinks that an IRC client named "Shout" should force the capslock key on all the time
<pyrmont>
hahahaha
<pyrmont>
Does really seem like that should be an option.
<wk>
lol
<wk>
pyrmont, so, Go would be a good bet on a Static Blog Generator, but bad for the Forum, where I would use Sinatra or Rails.
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<whitequark>
w..what? Go for a static blog generator?..
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<wk>
why not?
<womble>
whitequark: Just what I was thinking...
<whitequark>
Go's strengths are concurrency and parallelism, and you want to use it for a batch process that needs neither
<jdecuirm>
thanks pyrmont!!!
<womble>
wk: Because a static blog generator needs nothing that Go provides, and there are other languages that are better for what a static blog generator needs.
<pyrmont>
wk: No. Go is a systems programming language. It's optimised for speed. A static blog generator runs very infrequently (when you write a blog post) and so is something that can be written in a much slower language like Ruby.
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<wk>
faster to code, slower to run, ok
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<jdecuirm>
I added you like friends! hope you don't mind!
<whitequark>
unable to represent parametric types (e.g. an array of fixnums). in essence, useless.
<womble>
Really? Bummer.
<whitequark>
there's some effort to port typed scheme's gradual typing system over to other languages. i think python had that done.
<whitequark>
it would work for ruby no worse, but i'm not entirely convinced that such retrofitting is generally desirable
<womble>
Although I've often found that if I'm passing around arrays and hashes, it's a sign that I probably should just be making a new class somewhere.
<whitequark>
an array of fixnums shouldn't be a new class.
<whitequark>
since an array doesn't, in general, care what is contained inside it.
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<whitequark>
i.e. new class ≡ new behavior, but behavior of array of fixnums and strings is exactly same.
<womble>
whitequark: True, hence why I said "usually", not always. I've just found this in the rtc README: "For example, if you wished to say a function takes an Array of Fixnums, you would write Array<Fixnum>."
<whitequark>
oh, it gained that ability? very interesting
<womble>
Ooooh, "Structural types" looks interesting: "or example, if you wish to specify that a function takes an object that supports at least the addition operator, you would write
<whitequark>
oh, it's even the same department of same university.
<womble>
Your paper isn't as cool if you just patch someone else's stuff
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<jdecuirm>
What is the difference between an enumerator and enumerable?
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<womble>
jdecuirm: Enumerator's a class that gives you something you can enumerate, Enumerable's a module that you mix into another class to make it something you can enumerate
<womble>
I've had this conversation before... I should write a blog post to point people at. <grin>
<jdecuirm>
that sounds too technical, explain with apples please lol!
<whitequark>
Enumerable can be included in a class with #each and gives you #map, #select, #count, and a lot of other similar stuff
<centrx>
jdecuirm, an enumerable is something like [1,2,3]
<whitequark>
Enumerator is what #each returns if you don't pass it a block. it's essentially #each inside out
<womble>
jdecuirm: OK. Enumerator is a bucket that you can put your apples in, that will count them for you. Enumerable is a sticker you put on any old bucket (almost) to make it count the apples you've already put in it.
<whitequark>
i.e. #each calls the block for every element, and an Enumerator instance returns the next element when you call #next.
<womble>
where "count" is actually better considered "examine each apple for worms"
<elico>
Hey I am looking for a "key" only DB. as opposed to key+value ones.
<elico>
I need to store a white and black lists of domains in one list without any value in the key.
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<pipework>
columnar store?
<pipework>
Or just make a single key-value entry where the key is 'whitelist' or 'blacklist' and the value is an array?
<zenspider>
now that laurant is no longer at apple, does anyone know who's in charge of ruby there?
<elico>
pipework: not necessarily.
<elico>
I need only to know that the value is there..
<zenspider>
current xcode beta has bad rbconfig values
<elico>
the basic issue is that in any case I would need a value which will consume space eventually and for more then 28 million keys it would be 28*8 (byte) and it will consume eventually something..
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<elico>
to be more accurate it will consume more then 200MB just for the value of 28 million keys :\
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