apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Nick registration required to talk || Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
<prestoUZH> Ah yes. 1.9.3
<prestoUZH> updating
<drbrain> I wasn't able to get Curses::Pad into 1.9.3
<drbrain> I just missed the deadline
<prestoUZH> haah wow
<prestoUZH> so you're pretty into this ruby stuff then? :P
<prestoUZH> Do you do this for a living?
<drbrain> yes, I maintain rubygems and rdoc, primarily
<prestoUZH> by rubygems you mean http://rubygems.org/ ?
<drbrain> yes
<prestoUZH> wow
<drbrain> the software, not the website
<drbrain> both is too much for me
<prestoUZH> ohh
<prestoUZH> I thought you meant you ran the website
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<prestoUZH> still, submitting to ruby, pretty impressive :)
<prestoUZH> I've only been doing this stuff for a few months
<drbrain> other people run the website, there's probably a dozen people working on it
<prestoUZH> I'd imagine so
<drbrain> (rubygems, rubygems.org, related stuff)
<drbrain> I like open source
<prestoUZH> yep
<prestoUZH> it's the way to go
<prestoUZH> just look at Ubuntu vs Windows :L
<prestoUZH> Windows isn't that bad, but you know
<prestoUZH> it's meh
<drbrain> it's clunky for development
<drbrain> fine otherwise
<drbrain> at least, the kind of development I'm familiar with
<prestoUZH> all I know is the command prompt looks hideous
<prestoUZH> really blockly
<prestoUZH> *blocky
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<drbrain> you can change the font and all that, but the shell is not very powerful
<drbrain> I hear there are replacments
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<prestoUZH> It really isn't as bad as people make out
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<prestoUZH> it's weird though..had a dell about 5 years ago (christmas present) and it was utterly awful as you can imagine, crashing all the time
<prestoUZH> built my own pc and it's literally perfect
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<prestoUZH> so ironic
<prestoUZH> moronic..
<drbrain> hehe
<drbrain> I work on macs
<drbrain> nothing to mess with
<prestoUZH> Yeah, I have a macbook pro as well
<drbrain> I have a FreeBSD router at home, too
<prestoUZH> they do just work with less fuss
<prestoUZH> I really don't like the way they're going with the new Mac Pros though
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<prestoUZH> everything soldiered to the motherboard
<prestoUZH> Don't like that at all...
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<drbrain> the market niche they're targeted at has commoditized storage, and the thunderbolt port allows you to use plenty of displays by default
<drbrain> but also allows you to plug in PCIe cards if you need even more displays
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<drbrain> so it seems fine to make it as small as possible otherwise
<prestoUZH> Do you mean PCIe cards in an external enclosure?
<drbrain> yes
<prestoUZH> I don't know...isn't that sort of defeating the purpose of a compact machine if you have three other components plugged into it?
<drbrain> I imagine apple expects most Mac Pro buyers to also purchase a pair of displays and some kind of RAID enclosure
<prestoUZH> I just don't like the idea of not being to update a graphics card...I do design work as well see. 3D stuff
<prestoUZH> I just feel the new Mac Pro would age way too quickly
<prestoUZH> for me
* drbrain nods
<prestoUZH> So I bought a giant PC instead :L
<prestoUZH> I actually want to develop video games later in life
<prestoUZH> I think all video games will be online
<prestoUZH> via some form of WebGL
<drbrain> still, three 4K displays is a lot of rendering power
<prestoUZH> I only have 1 display atm...I've already splashed out on the actual machine..I can afford some more displays but I don't want to break my wallet
<prestoUZH> forcing myself to earn some more money first before I have a Matrix-like rig
<prestoUZH> I want 4 displays x)
<prestoUZH> Actually, can you recommend a good display?
<prestoUZH> Wish I could still buy one of these
<drbrain> I can't, I only use my laptop screen for portability
<prestoUZH> ah I see
<prestoUZH> so what time is it where you are?
<prestoUZH> 1:30am here :L typical nerd
<drbrain> Pacific Time, 17:30
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<prestoUZH> hmm..so you're not in the US?
<drbrain> yes, US
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<drbrain> I live in Seattle
<prestoUZH> haha fail on my part
<prestoUZH> I thought you guys were further back than that
<prestoUZH> UK by the way
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<drbrain> we're presently UTC -7
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<prestoUZH> I do want to visit the US... is it any good. You're always in reach of something cool there, all the cities are worth visiting.
<prestoUZH> In the UK, it's literally just villages and London.
<drbrain> we've got a broad variety of city type in the US
<drbrain> New York and other Eastern seaboard is probably closer to a European city as it is older and has established mass transit
<drbrain> Los Angeles is flat with no mass transit
<drbrain> Seattle is geographically constrained, so it's somewhere in between
<drbrain> I've spent a lot of time in Manhattan, I like it
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<prestoUZH> Florida is the only place I wouldn't want to go
<prestoUZH> looks really plastic and fakey
<drbrain> Miami, yes
<drbrain> Orlando is depressing for different reasons
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<drbrain> http://www.talkofthetownrestaurants.com/charleys.html is the only reason you should go to Florida
<prestoUZH> Haha nice
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<prestoUZH> what about New York? Is that's all its cracked up to be?
<drbrain> you can find most anything in New York
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<drbrain> I stayed at an Irish hotel last time I went
<prestoUZH> An irish hotal probably has a well stocked minibar :P
<prestoUZH> *hotel
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<prestoUZH> The grid-iron road networks I think would be a relief as well
<drbrain> a woman from Ireland ask the desk staff "where do I go to eat?" it took a few seconds for the staff to collect themselves to offer selections
<carlosgaldino> does anyone know the name of a gem that lets you add type signatures in your code?
<drbrain> because there's just so much good stuff
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<prestoUZH> damn. Should defintely visit one day. Sound much better than York (as in Old York)
<drbrain> it's grid-iron except for the south tip of manhattan, where the city started
<prestoUZH> the british just can't build good roads
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<prestoUZH> they will destroy any sat nav
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<drbrain> haha
<prestoUZH> have you ever been to Europe, then?
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<drbrain> I spoke at RailsClub Moscow a couple weeks ago
<drbrain> went through the airports of Munich and Frankfurt
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<prestoUZH> that doesn't count!
<prestoUZH> I've been to an airport in Africa
<prestoUZH> that's the most exotic airport I've ever been to haha
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<drbrain> Moscow doesn't count?
<prestoUZH> nope
<prestoUZH> Moscow is in Russia :L
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<prestoUZH> come WW3 it'll be NATO vs Warsaw Pact
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<prestoUZH> Ah do you know anything about Pik ?
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<drbrain> I'm not familure with it
<drbrain> ah, like rvm, but for windows
<drbrain> bus time for me, later!
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<mark06> is there an automated migration process from 1.8 to 1.9?
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<mark06> I have some scripts that are hard to test
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<mark06> ruby wakarimasen
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> How can I remove n secomds fropma DateTIme?
<MouseTheLuckyDog> s/secomds/seconds/
<Mon_Ouie> t - Rational(1, n*24*3600)
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<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie just woke up or haven't slept yet? :)
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<Mon_Ouie> I've already slept. Not sure I'd "just" woke up. I usually wake up at around 6.
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<epitron> lul.. ruby date classes
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<epitron> inline integral
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<epitron> man, after reading this code, i have a lot more respect for autistic savants who can tell you what day of the week a date falls on
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<ljarvis> i have spent a lot of time in those files
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<spling> Oh good chris2 you're actually here!
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<yorickpeterse> morning
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<maloik> fuckyea
<maloik> prose + github hosted jekyll + custom webhost deploys now work \o/
<maloik> by github hosted jekyll I mean the repo is up on github
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<Boohbah> maloik: does that mean your site goes down every time github goes down? :P
<maloik> why would it ?
<maloik> you just can't rebuild it using prose.io, you'd have to go do that manually
<Boohbah> i see
<maloik> but this is fantastic for people who have jekyll sites for clients who don't need/want a fullblown CMS but also want to be able to change text on their site
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<prestoUZH> Does anyone know anything about Pik?
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<TCMSLP> Is that the equivelent of rvm on windows?
<TCMSLP> I'd be inclinded to install cygwin and run rvm - but I'm not a windows person
<whitequark> that sounds like a horrible idea
<whitequark> cygwin is slow and awkward
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<prestoUZH> It's just I'm on Windows, and though I've installed Pik and changed my Ruby version to 2.0.0, I get this error when running bundler
* TCMSLP resists saying the same about windows
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<prestoUZH> When I run bundle install in an existing rails project, bundler doesn't work at all
<whitequark> TCMSLP: haha yes, but cygwin one-ups that!
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<whitequark> prestoUZH: honestly I would suggest using a VM
<whitequark> even OSXers commonly use a VM with e.g. ubuntu for development
<TCMSLP> prestoUZH: Looks like you need the build-tools?
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<prestoUZH> whitequark: Think that sounds like a very good idea.
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<TCMSLP> prestoUZH: There's several links via Google for the exact error you list
<prestoUZH> meh
<prestoUZH> maybe I should just install Ubuntu as a VM
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<TCMSLP> I assume many must develop ruby code under windows
<TCMSLP> I just assume linux would be easier
<prestoUZH> I think so
<prestoUZH> I know rvm is amazing on my Mac and Pik is causing me trouble, so yeah
<prestoUZH> looks good
<prestoUZH> be a bit annoying keeping my project files in two different places
<prestoUZH> but still
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<prestoUZH> I do like Ubuntu :)
<prestoUZH> wish Photoshop and Illustrator were available for it
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<whitequark> you know, the main reason ps/il are not available for linux is that their ui code is utter crap
<whitequark> it took them a ~decade to migrate from carbon to cocoa even on osx :)
<prestoUZH> Steam is available for Ubuntu now
<prestoUZH> so hopefully the best OS in the world will gain some traction :)
<whitequark> its linux usage is under 1% and declining
<prestoUZH> What now?
<prestoUZH> Ubuntu?
<ljarvis> Ubuntu, best os in the world?
<whitequark> nono, steam on linux
<ljarvis> lolboat
<prestoUZH> Ohh
<prestoUZH> It's free. That definitely it gives 'best points' in my book.
<whitequark> windows is free too *g*
<prestoUZH> haha
<ljarvis> i'm happy to pay something that earns me this much money
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<prestoUZH> Well what's your favourite OS then?
<ljarvis> no different to paying for photoshop or similar
<ljarvis> Windows 5
<ljarvis> but after that, osx
<ljarvis> 95*
<rue_XIW> I’ve been meaning to mention that I’ll be charging for assistance…
<prestoUZH> hardcore!
<prestoUZH> I do like osx
<ljarvis> windows 95 blows everything else out the water for me
<whitequark> ah, good times. you could crash your entire LAN with a single well-tuned ping packet
<ljarvis> I used to love the "did you know" shit bits
<maloik> afaik a lot of ATM's still use windows 95
<maloik> probably a kind of heavily customized version but still
<whitequark> a lot of industrial systems still uses dos 6.22
<whitequark> and no, not customized at all.
<maloik> I remember two years or so ago going to one that had a w95 error message up on it
<maloik> pretty scary
<whitequark> heck, there was some nuclear plant which was migrated from PDP-11 a few years ago
<ljarvis> why upgrade something that works and doesn't kill people
<prestoUZH> I'm to young to know about windows 95 :(
<whitequark> why upgrade network-connected equipment which looks like swiss cheese and off support?
<prestoUZH> but I do know the Space Shuttle's flight computer has something like 256mb of RAM or something tiny :L
<whitequark> prestoUZH: that's a shitload of RAM
<whitequark> look up Apollo Guidance Computer
<ljarvis> my pacemaker has more ram
<prestoUZH> ljarvis: haha
<whitequark> ljarvis: it does not
<ljarvis> whitequark: HOW DO U KNOW
<ljarvis> have you seen my pacemaker? YOU HAVE NOT
<whitequark> ljarvis: design requirements.
<whitequark> calculate the amount of energy required to just *refresh* 256mb of dram
<prestoUZH> Apparently each chip on a Credit Card has more 'computing power' (vague term, it was n00bashious) documentary than Apollo 11's computer
<whitequark> yes, though not by a very wide margin
<whitequark> you'd have something like 16MHz core clock (cf 2.048MHz) and, I dunno, 8 Kword RAM (cf 2 Kword)
<whitequark> then again there's JavaCard :p
<prestoUZH> Sorry to stop this random discussion of house hold objects vs space vehicles
<prestoUZH> but
<prestoUZH> you know when you create a virtual disk with VMPlayer?
<prestoUZH> can you make it larger afterwards?
<prestoUZH> if anyone happens to know :P
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<prestoUZH> I've got no room and I want to keep all my random crap :(
<whitequark> use sparse disk images
<prestoUZH> sparse you say?
<prestoUZH> I don't really know much about this
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<TCMSLP> prestoUZH: There's a great Adobe Lightroom clone under Linux
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<prestoUZH> all I know is I need to create a 'virtual disk', and I can either have it as a single file, or split it into multiple files
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<prestoUZH> that's all I know.
<prestoUZH> TCMSLP: Ah I don't use Lightroom
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<prestoUZH> thankyou though :)
<prestoUZH> Photoshop, Illustrator, AfterEfects
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<TCMSLP> Gimp, inkscape, possibly OpenShot/Blender ? Your life would be easier with your current selection though :)
<whitequark> >gimp
<whitequark> >inkscape
<prestoUZH> Yeah. I was thinking of those things
<whitequark> seriously, have you ever seen them?
<TCMSLP> I use all the above regularly
<prestoUZH> Yes. All the shortcuts are in slightly different places and it annoys me x)
<whitequark> I would rather eat rusty nails than use inkscape regularly
<prestoUZH> I assume inkscape is for Vector art?
<prestoUZH> Vectors are madly tricky no matter what program you're using
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<TCMSLP> whitequark: You're probably right. I only use it to convert bitmaps to vectors, clean up, then export as an svg for Blender. I'm not a power user, or even much of a normal user :)
<TCMSLP> I agree with prestoUZH though - anything vector related is hell
<TCMSLP> I usually assume it's my own incompetance rather than the software though
<prestoUZH> That's thing with Adobe software. It's so complicated that you always think it's you. And when you've been using it for a few years you realise that some aspects of it are reallly idiotic.
<prestoUZH> I won't go into it here, but using hexidecimal Gradients with Illustrator is just so badly implemented
<prestoUZH> ah well
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<prestoUZH> Just uninstalled Metro 2033 to make room for this VM :,(
<FiXato> Artyom will be disappoint son
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<prestoUZH> haha
<whitequark> "There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." C. A. R. Hoare
<prestoUZH> Have you played Last Light?
<prestoUZH> whitequark: genius haha
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<FiXato> no prestoUZH; I'm waiting for it to also appear in a Humble Bundle :P
<prestoUZH> Fixato: Well it's really good. I was just going to rant about how it guilt trips you towards the end. I won't spoil it thought :L
<FiXato> oh, I don't mind spoilers. :) I haven't finished 2033 yet and have already watched both endings for it :P
<prestoUZH> haha
<FiXato> (though I guess this isn't the right channel for such offtopic things anyway :P)
<prestoUZH> suppose, but no one's talking ruby!
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<TCMSLP> ok, string.include?("word") matches 'word' and 'forward'. Is there an easy way to match only a whole word? I'm guessing a regex? Or is there another way?
<TCMSLP> oops, spot the obvious mistake in my example
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<prestoUZH> you probably know about this
<prestoUZH> but still
<prestoUZH> sooo handy
<TCMSLP> Sure - I was hoping Ruby had some magic method though :)
<prestoUZH> ruby does do that a lot :)
<prestoUZH> spend ages writing some elabourate loop and then realise there's already a method x)
<TCMSLP> yup, hence my question :)
<gnufied> "hey there wow and lol".match(/\bwow\b/)
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<TCMSLP> gnufied: Thanks, I just figured the boundary ref
<prestoUZH> TCMSLP: darn it!
<prestoUZH> here's a link anyway
<prestoUZH> regex is so fiddly -_-
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<maloik> TCMSLP: if you were set on using include you'd have to split it into an array and then use include... but regexp is most likely a lot faster
<maloik> actually I'm not sure on that, but I'm guessing it is
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<maloik> remember about checking for the word at the end of a sentence or before a comma etc as well just to make sure
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<TCMSLP> argh - matching this: /\b#{sterm}s?\b/ works, unless sterm contains a dodgey character (for example a bracet)
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<TCMSLP> maloik: checking for word boundaries seems to include start/end of line
<TCMSLP> maloik: but as above, dodgey characters upset it - ruby interprets a bracket in the string as part of the statement
<TCMSLP> I've tried quotes
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<ljarvis> Regexp.escape
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<ljarvis> >> 1
<ljarvis> sigh
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<zzak> le jarv
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<ljarvis> ohi
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<ljarvis> zzak: you on boston?
<ljarvis> in
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<yorick-cowboy> yeeehaaw
<ljarvis> i..
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<yorick-cowboy> Real devs copy-paste code into production
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<ljarvis> with nano
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<yorick-cowboy> no, ed
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<ljarvis> no, lee
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<yorickpeterse> YAY INTERNET FAILURE
<yorickpeterse> And of course the helpdesk isn't responding
<yorickpeterse> SLA my ass
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<TCMSLP> yorickpeterse: You've broken it again?
<yorickpeterse> ALSO BUG OF THE DAY!:
<yorickpeterse> cache_key += "-#{key.to_s}-#{@period}-#{@date}-#{I18n.locale}-#{current_user.id}"
<yorickpeterse> @PERIOD IS A DATE LIKE OBJECT THAT USED TO BE A STRING
<yorickpeterse> CACHE HITS? NAHH
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<yorickpeterse> at least our phone line still works, it's slow though
<TCMSLP> This is what happens when you divide the internet by zero
<yorickpeterse> this is what happens when some dumbass who dropped out of primary school connects internet cables for a living
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<zzak> ljarvis: yeap!
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<yorickpeterse> MERGE ALL THE BRANCHES
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<imperator> Errno::ENOCONTEXT
<yorickpeterse> merging about 25 branches into master
<yorickpeterse> 5 weeks of work
<yorickpeterse> yay
<yorickpeterse> (25 branches over 25 projects or so)
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<yorickpeterse> jesus christ this internet, new connections don't work but existing ones are fine
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<charliesome> yorickpeterse: is your dns just fucked?
<whitequark> >> 1
* whitequark slaps charliesome around a bit with a large trout
<charliesome> whitequark: what up
<charliesome> oh
<yorickpeterse> charliesome: Google DNS
<rue_XIW> Sooo yes?
<yorickpeterse> plus you know, local DNS cache
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<yorickpeterse> ISP is having issues
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<yorickpeterse> "SLA? NAH WE'LL NOT TELL YOU ANYTHING"
<charliesome> >> "white"+"quark"
<eval-in> charliesome => "whitequark" (https://eval.in/53972)
<charliesome> wow damn eval-in is really fast when i'm in america
<charliesome> low latency and stuff
<rue_XIW> yorickpeterse: Service does not imply communication
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<yorickpeterse> then why does SSH work fine?
<yorickpeterse> oh wait
<yorickpeterse> heh misunderstood that
<yorickpeterse> Good thing I don't have the number of this ISP
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<maloik> prose.io + github jekyll repo == automatic rebuilds + keep some old versions
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<maloik> screw CMS'es
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<yorickpeterse> Oh neat, only AWS is not accessible
<yorickpeterse> JUST WHEN I NEEDED IT
* yorickpeterse flips table
* yorickpeterse flips office building
<ichilton> What does %{ } do in ruby?
<imperator> charliesome, you rage over benchmark posts?
<gjaldon> ichilton: that's just another way to delimit a string
<charliesome> imperator: i rage over javascript people
<charliesome> i know i shouldn't go near HN :(
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<maloik> how do you execute something async in ruby? as in, my rack app gets a request, it handles it by running a certain method and then finishes the request
<maloik> I want it to finish the request as soon as the other method started running
<maloik> does that make sense ?
<whitequark> maloik: yes
<whitequark> you can either spawn a thread or use an event framework, eg EventMachine
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<yorickpeterse> fuck yeah tunnels
<whitequark> I personally would recommend the former, unless you have a good reason to go for events.
<yorickpeterse> suck it stupid ISP
<whitequark> charliesome: 127.0.0.1 news.ycombinator.com
<whitequark> A+++ would do again
<charliesome> whitequark: cool done it
<charliesome> lets see if i can rid myself of hacker news
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<zzak> charliesome: you going to the lightning talks tonight?
<charliesome> zzak: yup
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<zzak> charliesome: see you there!
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<darix> whitequark: and while we are at it ... the same for reddit and twitter?
<whitequark> darix: exactly
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<Trapper> sdf
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<Trapper> whitequark: Hello! It's Presto here..getting to grips with Ubuntu all day x)
<Trapper> And irc
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<whitequark> um... me? why?
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<zzak> its your channel, remember?
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<yorickpeterse> wat
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<akahn> if I have a an instance of Class, Foo::Bar, how can I get "Bar" as a string? is there a way to do it without having to string manipulate "Foo::Bar"?
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<whitequark> >> class Foo; class Bar; end; end; Foo::Bar.name
<eval-in> whitequark => "Foo::Bar" (https://eval.in/53983)
<whitequark> oh right
<akahn> ah, didn't know about `name`
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<whitequark> don't think there is a way to get just the "Bar" part except for split
<akahn> k, thanks
<whitequark> also there's no way to create a constant with "::" in name
<whitequark> so split is at least safe, if inconvenient
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<mark06> please fix the topic, remove the character &#x1
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<ljarvis> wat
<ljarvis> 10>> [TRUE, FALSE]
<eval-in> ljarvis => /tmp/execpad-a1b0634822ec/source-a1b0634822ec:3: syntax error ... (https://eval.in/53994)
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<ljarvis> 10>> TRUE
<eval-in> ljarvis => /tmp/execpad-dcf9c31a5b1e/source-dcf9c31a5b1e:3: syntax error ... (https://eval.in/53995)
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<ljarvis> charliesome: your exception handling doesn't support 1.0
<charliesome> aw
<ljarvis> rescue Exception, e
<ljarvis> will work
<ljarvis> er no it wont
<_rgn> tmux
<ljarvis> nothing will because ruby 1.0
<charliesome> rescue Exception
<charliesome> $!
<ljarvis> ya
<charliesome> ok lemme try
<ljarvis> that'll work for them all so might be worth changing \o/
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<ljarvis> although
<ljarvis> iirc .class wont work in 1.0 either
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<charliesome> 10>> [TRUE, FALSE]
<eval-in> charliesome => [TRUE, FALSE] (https://eval.in/54002)
<ljarvis> ,3
<ljarvis> <3
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<Mon_Ouie> charliesome: The exception could would still fail I think (you need #type, #class didn't exist back then)
<Mon_Ouie> Also you didn't change the e to $!
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<charliesome> Mon_Ouie: ah whoops
<charliesome> i'll fix it properly later
<charliesome> at least it actually works now
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<ddfreyne> How's 2.0 support these days? Good enough?
<ddfreyne> I am tempted to have a 2.0+ only project.
<ddfreyne> But... maybe that is a bad idea.
<bean> i had issues with 2.0 and newest ruby gems on some chef testing stuff, but beyond that it treated me pretty well
<bean> had to downgrade to 1.9.3 to do my work though
<charliesome> ddfreyne: do it
<charliesome> all the way
<charliesome> no good reason to start a new project on 1.9 these days
<whitequark> charliesome: parser still supports 1.8!
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<whitequark> (and will be for... foreseeable future)
<charliesome> whitequark: how come?
<whitequark> well
<whitequark> I think it's good that it can execute on anything it could parse
<charliesome> i proudly don't support 1.8 in anything :~)
<whitequark> plus it's not that much of a pain; I don't parse 1.9+ on 1.8
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<whitequark> honestly the differences within 1.9 series gave me more headache
<ddfreyne> I wish Ruby adopted semantic versioning :(
<whitequark> we all do.
<yorickpeterse> ddfreyne: I wish I could ride a unicorn
<ddfreyne> yorickpeterse: You're crazy and we all know it
<charliesome> ddfreyne: it's adopting a semver-ish thing from now on
<whitequark> charliesome: btw, any progress on the fast "".freeze ?
<charliesome> whitequark: not really unfortunately
<whitequark> I really don't wanna to implement ""f :p
<charliesome> it's not really a user visible feature
<whitequark> and it's fucking hideous
<charliesome> so i guess it doesn't require matz's approval
<whitequark> yes, but ""f is
<charliesome> no i mean the "".freeze
<whitequark> and christmas is looming
<ddfreyne> Wait, what is hideous? ""f?
<mark06> why the hell channel join message has a \x1 char pair?
<whitequark> yes, isn't "".freeze replacement for ""f ?
<charliesome> yep
<yorickpeterse> GAIS 2.1 STABLE COMING, LETS CHANGE STUFF CLOSE BEFORE RELEASE
<charliesome> either replacement or or in addition to
<charliesome> i don't mind ""f tbh
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: LET'S ADD SHIT AND SUPPORT IT FOREVER INSTEAD. THAT'S MUCH BETTER
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<charliesome> i preferred %f() but whatever
<charliesome> the nice thing about "".freeze is it's backwards compatible
<whitequark> and semantic
<whitequark> %f won't work with arrays
<charliesome> yeah
<charliesome> optimizing .freeze is awesome
<charliesome> because it isn't visible from ruby land really
<whitequark> exactly
<whitequark> shouldn't be too hard
<whitequark> you need to add another optimized opcode, it's covered already
<charliesome> i have a patch for "".freeze
<whitequark> land it ?
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: lol don't be silly
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<charliesome> freezing an array of literals should be easy enough
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: what?
<yorickpeterse> re support forever
<whitequark> that's how it is
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<whitequark> people will use 2.1 in five years even if 2.2 is backwards-compatible
<whitequark> and longer if it's not.
<whitequark> well, it's 3.0 then, still.
<charliesome> in 5 years ruby will have excelsior unicode support
<charliesome> and a virtual machine on every object
<whitequark> wat
<charliesome> pretty much required viewing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng95M-cRb44
<yorickpeterse> charliesome: I hope you step on a lego
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<mark06> can someone please fix the join message?
<apeiros> mark06: does the following message have \x1 message pairs too?
* apeiros test
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<mark06> apeiros: what message, test? no it doesn't
<mark06> apeiros: at least it's not displayed as it is in the join message (as a placeholder for unprintable char)
<apeiros> ok. I suspected your client not being able to process that kind of message as they do contain \x01 bytes
<mark06> apeiros: ah yes, #pidgin is agreeing it's indeed control chars
<mark06> apeiros: what's the need for them on a join message?
<apeiros> no idea
<mark06> apeiros: can you fix it please?
<apeiros> I can't
* mark06 grrrrr
<mark06> apeiros: do you know any who can? so I send them a memo
<apeiros> chanserv can produce a list of people with privileges, also it can produce the channel owner
<mark06> apeiros: it's corrupting my whole buddy list in Pidgin, for all protocols, forcing me to keep reverting the backup all the time
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<apeiros> mark06: ah well, that'd be a bug in pidgin, though
<mark06> apeiros: yes they're working on it
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<mark06> apeiros: but that's a insane bug here as well, and in the meanwhile, I just want to stop reverting backup all the time
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<apeiros> hm, I wonder where limechat displays the join message
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<apeiros> at least I didn't see any upon parting and rejoining
<drbrain> I see:
<drbrain> 13:07 ChanServ: [#ruby-lang] The Official Ruby Channel http://ruby-lang.org — Paste > 3 lines of text on https://gist.github.com or similar
<drbrain> and:
<drbrain> 13:07 Reply(328): #ruby-lang http://www.ruby-lang.org
<apeiros> ah, in the server buffer
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<drbrain> yeah
<apeiros> odd, why'd that contain a \x01
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<drbrain> I'm unsure how to set it
<apeiros> I think via chanserv
<drbrain> sure, but I don't know which command does it
<apeiros> /msg chanserv set entrymsg
<apeiros> ah well, actually: Syntax: SET <#channel> ENTRYMSG [message]
<drbrain> ah, there's an EM DASH in the entrymsg
<drbrain> —
<drbrain> I just replaced it with a -
<drbrain> so I guess pidgin can't cope with UTF-8?
<apeiros> why'd an em-dash contain \x01?
<drbrain> maybe broken character conversion?
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<drbrain> mark06: ↑
<drbrain> mark06: did I fix your problem?
<apeiros> drbrain: heh, no, it wasn't the em-dash
<apeiros> I think whoever set the entry message had it broken
<apeiros> it's immediately before the em-dash
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<apeiros> funky, I can paste it into sublime, but not into the terminal
<mark06> drbrain: \x1 may not get displayed by your client, firefox on webchat for example
<mark06> drbrain: ah please ignore, I thought you were trying to "see" those chars
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<drbrain> mark06: no, just trying to fix it
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<mark06> drbrain: ok for replacing the dash but that wasn't really the problem... ah wait... whatever had set the message, it insterted two \x1 before the dash?
<apeiros> yes
<mark06> anyone knows what encoding would that be?
<apeiros> broken client IMO
<drbrain> mark06: I don't know, since I can't see them in my client
<apeiros> drbrain: copy & paste your own message - it still contains the \x01
<apeiros> two of them actually
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<mark06> drbrain: ah ok, try copy/paste onto some editor, webchat doesn't show it (firefox) but the \x1 chars are indeed there
<apeiros> sublime shows them as (SOH) - white on black ground. looks funny :)
<apeiros> oh, wow, I actually have sufficient privileges to alter the entry message
<apeiros> weeeeee! :D
<drbrain> that's really strange because I typed it in by hand
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<apeiros> drbrain: no, not the new one
<drbrain> ah
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<apeiros> the one where you pasted the old entry message
<mark06> SOH = Start Of Heading => ascii char \x1
<apeiros> mark06: yupp
<drbrain> I see them now, in the old one
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<apeiros> I restored the utf-8 free, 7bit ascii only entrymsg which drbrain had set.
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<apeiros> I think it's not a bad idea to stay as compatible as possible on the first message sent to a channel participant :)
<apeiros> (even though I think broken clients should be fixed)
<pencilandpaper> o, the message has been changed now.
<pencilandpaper> i went to a different client to see if i could see it differently with it on the side. bummer.
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<apeiros> pencilandpaper: I can pm it to you, if you want
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<mark06> here's a \x1: 
<pencilandpaper> thanks. well i can see it clearly on the other one mark06..and not on pidgin.
<mark06> apeiros: yeah I argued it is a stupid bug corrupting whole buddy list instead of just ignoring these invalid, nonsense, chars
<apeiros> mark06: they forgot the prime mantra of programming: never trust user input
<apeiros> if it can corrupt your buddy list, it can potentially be abused for worse.
<mark06> apeiros: I wonder who had set the message with dash and which encoding they were using
<apeiros> mark06: I don't think it was caused by an encoding
<pencilandpaper> it hasnt done a thing to my buddylist yet.
<mark06> pencilandpaper: I see a square with four zeros in pidgin
<pencilandpaper> thats what i see as well mark06. i have seen that with color codes for fonts as well.
<mark06> apeiros: it seems very likely to be some encoding problem, why that pair would be place exactly right before the non-ascii char and not anywhere else?
<apeiros> mark06: it actually seems very unlikely
<mark06> pencilandpaper: I think you need irchelper enabled, it stores the join message
<apeiros> since no encoding I'm aware of has 7bit ascii, proper utf-8 em-dash, but randomly uses \x01
<apeiros> I think it was an editor/copy-paste problem
<apeiros> which introduced control characters unwantedly
<pencilandpaper> i actually do have it installed mark06.
<pencilandpaper> i dont keep logs.
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<mark06> pencilandpaper: and enabled, and you joined the channel before the fix? ah wait, I think you need this channel added to your buddy list so it can save it, then restart pidgin (but it's fixed now)
<pencilandpaper> o ok, i see. yeah the channel isnt added up though. so that could be it.
<mark06> apeiros: I see
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<mark06> pencilandpaper: yeah if the channel is on your buddy list, irchelper saves the join message, causing the problem to appear
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<mark06> so guys I'll leave and rejoin for testing, brb
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<pencilandpaper> brb as well.
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<pencilandpaper> as someone that doesnt have the channel added, it appears to be ok.
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<mark06> problem fixed, thanks
<drbrain> mark06: yay!
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<mark06> so now, anyone help me with a 1.9 problem?
<mark06> I got an encoding error when I try to read a file with a pass passed as argument
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<mark06> none of the console window, or the ruby script, or the Windows API uses CP850, but it tried to do some conversion in this encoding
<mark06> CP850 is only used in cmd.exe and some old console programs, I think
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<mistym> mark-: Can I see your code?
<mistym> Er, mark06
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<mark06> yes, a sec
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<mark06> mistym: http://pastie.org/8395962
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<mistym> mark06: And what's your error?
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<mark06> mistym: http://pastie.org/8395975
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<mark06> any idea?
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<mark06> ruby 1.9 under widows 7
<mistym> mark06: Silly question: you're sure the log file it's referring to actually exists?
<drbrain> the error and file don't match
<drbrain> d:/Programas/Outros/wifi-reconexoes.rb:4 but line 4 is: # Reconexões Wi-Fi 2013.10.11
<mark06> mistym: yes
<mark06> mistym: the log file is utf-8 btw
<mark06> mistym: it was the comment header -- fixed, it's line 9: http://pastie.org/8396006
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<drbrain> mark06: it doesn't matter if the log file is utf-8 if ruby reports Errno::ENOENT
<drbrain> that means it couldn't find the file in question
<drbrain> mark06: does the behavior change if you copy d:/Documentos/Rede/Reconexões.log d:/Documentos/Rede/r.log
<drbrain> then run against r.log?
<rickhull> i'm having trouble using rspec / serverspec
<rickhull> with bundle install —standalone
<rickhull> i've got a lib/setup, which gets bundler setup
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: HEY WHAT'S UP WITH THIS? http://rxr.whitequark.org/mri/search?filestring=*.h&advanced=1&string=%22ruby%2Fst.h%22
<rickhull> so i can e.g. irb -r./setup; require 'serverspec' # no problem
<yorickpeterse> Y U NO LET ME SEARCH FOR *.h
<rickhull> now i want to run a serverspec: rspec serverspec/zone_manager/dns_spec.rb
<rickhull> my spec_helper.rb requires lib/setup.rb successfully
<rickhull> and then:
<rickhull> /usr/local/lib/site_ruby/1.9.1/rubygems/core_ext/kernel_require.rb:51:in `require': cannot load such file -- serverspec (LoadError)
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<mark06> drbrain: ah true, my bad, it cannot find the file
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<rickhull> spec_helper.rb fails on line 6 when invoked via rspec, but not via e.g. irb
<mark06> drbrain: it work with ascii-only path
<mark06> drbrain: (r.log)
<drbrain> so ARGV[0] value probably does not match filesystem encoding
<drbrain> mark06: a) you can use ARGF instead of ARGV[0]
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<drbrain> b) you can determine ARGV[0] encoding and convert it to: Encoding.find 'filesystem' before File.open
<drbrain> (I recommend ARGF)
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<mark06> drbrain: it did work in ruby 1.8
<drbrain> ruby 1.8 doesn't have the concept of Encoding
<mark06> so it did work by accident, ok
<drbrain> what is Encoding.find 'filesystem' ? I don't have windows handy
<drbrain> … and ARGV[0].encoding ?
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<drbrain> mark06: ruby -e 'p fs: Encoding.find("filesystem"), ARGV: ARGV[0].encoding' -- foo
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<mark06> drbrain: so ARGF means a list of File objects loaded from command line arguments (and assuming all args are paths or they were removed from ARGV)?
<mark06> drbrain: {:fs=>#<Encoding:Windows-1252>, :ARGV=>#<Encoding:CP850>}
<drbrain> if a argument doesn't exist as a file ruby skips it
<drbrain> try: ruby -e 'open ARGV[0].encode(Encoding.find("filesystem"))'
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<drbrain> does that work?
<mark06> drbrain: http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/ARGF.html -- " ARGF assumes that any arguments that aren't filenames have been removed from ARGV"
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<drbrain> ah, yeah, but you don't have extra arguments at this point
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<mark06> drbrain: second command: -e:1:in `<main>': undefined method `encode' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)
<drbrain> mark06: well, you need to give it your filename with fancy characters :D
<mark06> drbrain: I mean to get the use of ARGF, if I ever add non-files to args
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<mark06> drbrain: -e:1:in `initialize': No such file or directory - d:/Documentos/Rede/Reconex§es.log (Errno::ENOENT)
<drbrain> mark06: if you combine file names with arguments, trim the arguments out of ARGV first (using, say optparse) then use ARGF
<rickhull> can anyone have a quick look at https://gist.github.com/rickhull/de34f61ee085379c73f0
<rickhull> notice in output.txt i am pretty printing the load path, $:
<rickhull> it's clear serverspec is in the load path
<rickhull> and then immediately it can't be required?
<mark06> drbrain: that's what I wanted to know, so it's not "if a argument doesn't exist as a file ruby skips it"
<drbrain> yeah, sorry
<drbrain> I didn't check it
<mark06> ok no problem
<mark06> drbrain: I would expect mintty (the console I'm using) to be using cp1252 or latin1, not cp850, this is really weird....
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<mark06> drbrain: or would that be bash? let me see
<drbrain> mark06: I'm unsure
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<drbrain> if you're in a unix-like shell, what is locale?
<drbrain> offhand, I'm not sure how the encoding of ARGV is determined
<mark06> drbrain: I think they are empty
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<mark06> drbrain: I don't have them set I think
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<drbrain> mark06: your problem is exceeding my level of knowledge ☹
<mark06> drbrain: chcp 1252 on cmd.exe fixes it...
<drbrain> mark06: you are using ruby 2.0.0p247?
<mark06> drbrain: no 1.9
<mark06> is 2.0 more stable?
<mark06> mine 1.9.3p448
<drbrain> equally stable, but it's possible a bug was fixed since 1.9.3
<drbrain> if you can reproduce it on 2.0.0p247 without changing the encoding, I would file a bug
<drbrain> it may not be a bug, but somebody with more knowledge than me will probably tell you how to fix it :D
<mark06> drbrain: where is Ruby bug tracker?
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<mark06> drbrain: I think I just need to check the encoding on another language, e.g. python
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<mark06> drbrain: so ruby uses redmine (not worse than bugzilla at least :) )
<drbrain> yes, redmine
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<rickhull> drbrain: is there anything i can entice you with, reddit gold maybe? ;)
<rickhull> is it a known issue, maybe, that rspec doesn't respect the load path manipulation done by bundler --standalone?
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<rickhull> not getting any help in #rspec :(
<drbrain> rickhull: I am unsure, not being an rspec user ☹
<rickhull> and bundler, natch
<rickhull> but i'm totally baffled by output.txt
<rickhull> how could that possibly be?
<rickhull> you see what i mean?
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<rickhull> line 3 of output.txt clearly shows serverspec in the load path
<rickhull> and line 27 says can't load serverspec
<rickhull> output.txt line 3 corresponds to spec_helper.rb line 3
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<rickhull> and output.txt line 27 corresponds to spec_helper.rb line 5
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<rickhull> am i missing something?
<rickhull> doesn't it seem like something is horribly broken?
<mark06> drbrain: looks indeed like a bug, python decodes successfully the arg as latin1
<drbrain> rickhull: What does this say: `gem which serverspec`
<rickhull> it can't find. note that the gem contents are in source control
<rickhull> this is the method of bundle install —standalone
<rickhull> so the gem contents are on the filesystem, in the load path
<mark06> drbrain: http://pastie.org/8396102
<mark06> drbrain: will follow your advice and try 2.0 out
<drbrain> mark06: what does python's decode do? I am not familiar
<drbrain> rickhull: seems like the file is missing?
<drbrain> ls /home/rick/git/ocs-autodeploy/ruby/bundle/ruby/1.9.1/gems/serverspec-0.9.8/lib/serverspec.rb gives a file?
<apeiros> drbrain: I'd assume that path.decode("ISO-8859-1") is essentially the same as path.force_encoding("ISO-8859-1").encode('utf-8')
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<rickhull> drbrain: i was going to say OF COURSE
<rickhull> rick@tao:~/git/ocs-autodeploy/ruby/bundle/ruby$ ls
<rickhull> 2.0.0
<drbrain> hehehehehehe
<rickhull> now i'm confused, but i think you've hit on a big part
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<rickhull> did i say reddit gold? i meant mold
<drbrain> it's cool, I primarily only use reddit to consume, so I'm unsure what gold would bring me
<apeiros> oh, wow, my window was stuck in the backlog
<rickhull> i forget, i tried it for free when it first came out
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<mark06> drbrain: decode decodes a str object into a unicode object, it takes the bytes and try to create a "proper string" (decode) assuming the bytes are encoded in the provided encoding
<drbrain> mark06: thanks
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<rickhull> ah, i see. `rspec` is using ruby1.9, even though my default ruby is 2.0
<rickhull> the bundler load path stuff is dynamically generated from RbConfig
<rickhull> ::CONFIG['ruby_version']
<rickhull> i'm thinking that since i install rspec via bundle install —standalone, that i should be using that binary
<rickhull> and yeah, i'm picking up the older system rspec
<rickhull> now i'm wondering if i should do PATH manipulation, or just "hardcode" to find the bundled bin
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<rickhull> looks like install —binstubs is the way
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<Trapper> yawn
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<mark06> drbrain: same problem on 2.0.0p247
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<drbrain> mark06: I would file a bug then
<mark06> drbrain: ok thanks for helping me figure it out!
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<mark06> drbrain: my bet is ruby 1.9+ tries to figure out what encoding to use for file paths depending on some factor, but I think it's a fixed encoding in Windows, UTF-16 I think
<drbrain> mark06: probably
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<mark06> it seems to like chcp
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