ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
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<slyphon> hrm
<slyphon> thor: almost
<slyphon> ok, so, in thor, if i specify aliases, it doesn't override the :default option
<slyphon> right
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<Harzilein> hi
<Harzilein> what's the module equivalent to klass?
<Harzilein> and is it silly to use that when the object is not a ruby module, but an amiga mod?
<Harzilein> this is actually i mirah problem, where i want to use a java module for parsing mods
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<drbrain> Harzilein: nodule?
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<Harzilein> drbrain: ah, thanks
<drbrain> Harzilein: I made that up
<drbrain> Harzilein: you could also use modjoule
<Harzilein> drbrain: googling for nodule found some usage
<Harzilein> drbrain: well, googling for klass nodule did
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<drbrain> haha
<Harzilein> i went with mod though, because i am not dealing with modules of the programming kind
* Boohbah goes noduling for googule
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<shevy> Boohbah go noodling yay!
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<dr0id> foo
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<shevy> bar
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<bnagy> quux
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<Boohbah> yugui: how was your 30 second nap?
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<dr0id> dog woke him up
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<TTilus> can't find irb api docs, what am i missing
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<shevy> TTilus hmmm
<shevy> does irb even have any documentation at all? :D
<bnagy> it's got a manpage?
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<yorickpeterse> should've used Pry instead :>
<TTilus> i will when i get it in project deps
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<shevy> hehe
<shevy> at least pry has documentation!
<TTilus> don't u laugh at me, i will get this console backdoor done even if i dont have pry at first ;)
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<shevy> I think all that is part of ruby should have a mandatory docu check
<shevy> if docu is lacking for module x, then module x may not be distributed with ruby
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<andrewvos> rue: hahahahah missed that :)
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<rue> shevy: Also a mandatory adding of documentation to one class by the complainer whenever this issue is brought up
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<shevy> rue I have to write docu for guys who did not want to document their files?
<rue> Yes
<shevy> rue and the original author could not be bothered to do so ... why exactly?
<shevy> the solution is easy. irb out, pry in
<TTilus> ...and breaks whole a lotta stuff out there ;)
<shevy> :(
<shevy> perhaps if it were to be done today!
<shevy> but in a year or two...
<shevy> ... it will have replaced irb
<shevy> :)
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<andrewvos> Have to say it, pry has been fucking useful debugging cucumber tests.
<andrewvos> I've started using binding.pry lately. Absolutely amazing.
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<ezkl> exit
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<unsymbol> oops.
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<rue> Damnit, add a / to the commands or they apply to everyone
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<andrewvos> fetchmail with the sslcert option doesn't work but with the command line parameter --sslcert it works.
<andrewvos> What thef uck
<bnagy> interpolation?
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<bnagy> if in doubt, blame bash ;) srsly, no that's Universe Broken Error
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<andrewvos> This sucks
<andrewvos> What's the difference between --sslcert in the command line and sslcert in the fetchmailrc file
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<andrewvos> Okay i got it working
<andrewvos> I was putting a ~ path to the cert in sslcert and it wasn't working. Maybe zsh was autocompleting the command line option or something.
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<deryl> andrewvos, I tell people all the time, never use ~ over $HOME (though they meant he same thing) because ~ is *not* guaranteed to be there as an alias, $HOME always works.
<deryl> s/ he same/ the same/
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<andrewvos> thanks
<andrewvos> deryl:
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<deryl> andrewvos, np
<macmartine> Is there a way to make this verify there are 3 or more non-space characters total, while spaces are allowed? http://rubular.com/r/Nu87gXs3Qj
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<andrewvos> deryl: Will $HOME be available under a cron?
<deryl> yes
<deryl> for that user
<deryl> err set for that user (sorry
<andrewvos> oh wait
<andrewvos> ok so it would be root
<deryl> yeah if its running as root then yes, root's home will be populated in $HOME
<deryl> if you run the cronjob with a su -u >user> then it should be populated with that user's HOME
<deryl> <user> meaning that user's login
* deryl thinks note to self, you;re in a ruby channel. usean ivar when you're emitting a token
<andrewvos> Okay well I'll just supply the full path
<andrewvos> Oh wait
<andrewvos> Or just not do `sudo crontab -e`
<andrewvos> :/
<deryl> sudo su -u @username -c crontab -e iirc
<deryl> (sudo to get rights to change within the sudo system, su to change to the user themself)
<andrewvos> deryl: Well I want it to be the user I'm running under
<andrewvos> So I'm assuming `crontab -e` lets me edit the crontab for my user
<deryl> yeah the sudo part is so you have the right to run as anyone at all (most systems are using sudo and using su directly requires root's pass),, and the su part is to execute the actual change to that user so you can run the corntab -e command in context of that user
<deryl> if you have root's pass you can drop the sudo part.
<andrewvos> Ah ok thanks
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<deryl> just most distributions put people into the sudo or wheel group and then set up visudo with that group. you would need the sudo part in the command i gave you to have the right TO execute the su in the first place
<andrewvos> I'm on os x
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<deryl> ahh yeah then its just straight su
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<deryl> you should add the -l to that as well
<deryl> su -l -u username so its a login if you need their env for any reason
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<deryl> don't have my MBP handy to make sure that's right. but iirc it operates exactly the same as gnu's su
<deryl> the -l makes it a login shell
<deryl> rather than just making you that user but keeping your own environment (sorry accidently hit enter before if inished)
<andrewvos> Wait, so you've lost me here. What's wrong with just plain "crontab -e" under the intended user?
<deryl> no thats fine. what i'mk referencing is say you do su - -u user you get THEIR env (their configs load ect)
<deryl> without the -l YOUR ejnv usually stays loaded
<andrewvos> Oh ok fair enough
<andrewvos> Thanks deryl
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<deryl> np
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<workmad3> deryl: why do sudo su? just do sudo -u
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<workmad3> sudo -u <username> crontab -e
<workmad3> also useful with -i if you want the equivalent of su - :) sudo -u username -i
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<deryl> workmad3, ahh, I'm a throwback. i'm used to su directly, so i sudo to enter the priv system, and then su the commands i want.
<workmad3> deryl: heh :)
<kalleth> deryl: sudo -i
<kalleth> to go to root
<kalleth> :D
<kalleth> :D :D :D
<workmad3> deryl: that assumes your user has sudo privileges to run su of course ;)
<kalleth> dammit, you already bloody told me that
* kalleth looks dumb now
<deryl> workmad3, unless there is a custom visudo in place then you do
<deryl> sudoers file actually
<deryl> visudo to edit it
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<workmad3> deryl: well, 'custom' meaning 'something other than the debian packaged version', sure
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<deryl> workmad3, custom meaning other than any default configured sudoers file.
<deryl> opensuse, fedora, debian, ubuntu, slack, etc all come with sudoers file set up with a group able to run commands and su not locked out by a custom line
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<workmad3> fair enough... I've only ever used sudo on deb based systems
<workmad3> and on an opensolaris where it was customised
<workmad3> I've also customised it myself to allow a group to run a single command without a password :)
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<deryl> yep. highly configurable. i just am used to su directly, but because i do occasionally work on systems where i don't know the root pass but am in the sudoers, i do tend to prefix my c ommands with sudo just to enter the system.
<deryl> like i said, i'm a throwback hands off my su! ;)
<workmad3> :D
<deryl> i've a few fellow admin friends that laugh at me for it :)
<workmad3> su has its place, but sudo is more sensible... rather than having to share one root password amongst lots of people and having to change and share a new one if it's compromised, you instead have an individual one for each user who is allowed access (in essence)
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<deryl> yep. don't get me wrong, i think sudo is an excellent compromise within the scecurity requirements of most systems.
<workmad3> back in my uni days, I figured out su though... especially useful when remotely helping some others... ssh to their machine, su to their user (get them to put in their pw) and then do some crap for them :)
<workmad3> everything has its place :)
<deryl> its just that when i started out there was no sudo, just su. so i use su alm ost exclusively on my own systems, but over the lastr couple years i started using sudo but only insofar as i said, prefix of my su commands *just* to access the security privs system. i guess i should learn to use it fully. i'm just hard headed at time and i fully admit its not an effricient ussage pattern :)
<deryl> can oyu make any more typos in a paragraph, deryl? come on you know you can!
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<workmad3> :)
<workmad3> so... can I beat deryl with the 'no su' stick any more? :)
<deryl> luckily i don't typo anywhere near this much in code! hehe can you imagine the time needed for cleanup??
<deryl> hahaha
<deryl> workmad3++
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<voidx> could anyone help me write this spec please http://pastie.org/3920954
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<Frunderground> hello
<Frunderground> I'm running into a problem using threads in ruby...they seem to randomly hang, when I attach gdb it's stuck in in pthread_cond_wait@@GLIBC_2.3.2 () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
<Frunderground> using ruby 1.9.3*
<Frunderground> I can paste the entire backtrace if it would help
<Frunderground> (to gist or some such place, of course)
<Frunderground> I'm about to fork a process to do the work instead of creating a thread, but I was hoping to avoid reloading the environment
<Frunderground> I've already eliminated join/other waiting from the problem...In attempting to fix this problem I manually handle timeouts (with a loop and a sleep) I originally used join with a timeout, but that had the same issue
<Frunderground> it happens after the ruby process has been running/creating threads for a day or two, it's not reproducible
<ged> Frunderground: that sounds like deadlock.
<Frunderground> hmm
<ged> Frunderground: I don't know how much threaded programming you've done before, but that's a common problem.
<Frunderground> I don't share any state, but maybe a library isn't thread safe
<Frunderground> any hints for debugging where the deadlock might be occuring?
<ged> Frunderground: Seems like it. pthread_cond_wait is when a thread is waiting on a condition variable, so the backtrace should show what condition they're deadlocking on.
<ged> It happens a lot with extensions that aren't written with Ruby threading in mind.
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<Frunderground> hmm...this looks a little suspect: 'in setup_exception'
<Frunderground> (full backtrace: http://pastie.org/private/yewvr5fiuvbovmu1d6nkw)
<Frunderground> It'd be so much easier if I could link it back to the line of ruby code it's waiting on, heh
<workmad3> hehe
<workmad3> you'll want the moon on a stick next :P
<shevy> well
<shevy> I wanna code ruby on the moon
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<shevy> workmad3 let's pair up programming on the moon
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<TTilus> rly need pry
<TTilus> i knew irb was bad
<TTilus> now i know it is outright broken and totally undocumented
<shevy> hehehe
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<lianj> nah, irb is not that bad
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<shevy> irb will be the killer app as soon as rue finishes documenting it
<rue> That’s your job
<TTilus> ever tried to use any other io (say tcp connection) than one of the included
<TTilus> it appears you cant
<shevy> hmm did not try, but I also did not have the idea for it so far
<TTilus> without monkeypatching your hair off
<TTilus> you sort of can provide custom io, but the p in repl still goes to stdout :)
<TTilus> to name one particular fail
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<shevy> hehe
<shevy> I once wanted to embed IRB
<shevy> but like, you know, only eval ruby code through IRB
<shevy> not actually run it
<shevy> I still have nightmares from that day staring at IRB internals
<shevy> :(
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<cout> eval but not run?
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<shevy> cout yeah
<shevy> eval at any later time
<shevy> like you fetch user input from somewhere else first
<shevy> and then when the user types in something else, it gets evaled through IRB
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<slyphon> jesus
<slyphon> i'm like a thread bug finding MACHINE
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<nazty> hey
<nazty> whats a good cross platform gui for ruby?
<ged> Frunderground: It looks like your thread raised an exception (rb_exc_raise), and is waiting to be joined.
<ged> Frunderground: Do your threads do 'Thread.current.abort_on_exception = true'?
<burgestrand> ged: ain’t that thread-global?
* burgestrand checks
<ged> Oh, yep.
<burgestrand> You can actually set it on Thread.current too, neat!
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<ged> Yeah, I didn't know you could set it globally too. Nice!
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<burgestrand> \o/
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<Frunderground> ged: I don't explicitly join any threads (joining exhibited the same issue anyway)
<Frunderground> ah
<Frunderground> but
<Frunderground> thread.current.abort_on_exception is false
<Frunderground> that might be it
<Frunderground> I'll try setting it and have any exception kill all threads and see if that eliminates the hanging problem
<Frunderground> (having the thread die is better than hanging)
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<Frunderground> (program die that is...that can be caught by monit, while a hanging thread just looks like it's working properly)
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<nazty> hey whats a good multiplatform gui for ruby
<rking> nazty: HTML?
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<whatasunnyday> nazty: shoes
<nazty> nah i wanna make some applications
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<nazty> with a gui
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<whatasunnyday> yeah isn't that exactly what shoes does?
<whatasunnyday> am i misunderstanding you?
<rking> whatasunnyday: I figured he was replying to my answer.
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<whatasunnyday> ah i see
<zzak> keep it down
<whatasunnyday> nazty: http://shoesrb.com/
<nazty> thanks
<whatasunnyday> :(
<nazty> say i wanted to build a lil irc client
<nazty> would shoes be able to pull that off
<whatasunnyday> yep
<whatasunnyday> shoes is really, really awesome
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<whatasunnyday> a lot of good resources there
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<nazty> thanks
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<Frunderground> I had a problem with getting shoes to handle sprites properly
<Frunderground> but that shouldn't be an issue with an irc client
<hagabaka> I think QtRuby is pretty good, although I haven't done much with it yet
<TTilus> sprites sound more like gosu than shoes =D
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<nazty> anyone ever use xchat/ruby?
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<fayimora> Hey guys, can i make this code(http://pastie.org/3921703) any simpler? I want an array of entries containing one per day
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<fayimora> The one below is my solution but apparently I can do better
<deryl> fayimora, dude, you've been told so many times that hitting multiple channels at the same time ir flat out rude and in most cases will stop you from getting th ehel you want
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<hagabaka> fayimora: those are just two ways to represent the same information, sure there are simpler ways, but what exactly are your requirements?
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<voidx> I need some advices on isolate tests. Could anybody please review these specs
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<Mon_Ouie> I don't see a point in using stubs and should_receive
<Mon_Ouie> item.quantity = 1; item.increment_quantity; item.quantity.should == 2
<yxhuvud> seems somewhat contrived
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<fayimora> hagabaka: still therE?
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<slyphon> wow
<slyphon> i'm kind of disappointed in MRI
<slyphon> it does not cope with fork reliably
<carloslopes> slyphon: what do you consider reliable?
<slyphon> i'll say this
<slyphon> i'm not a C programmer and I don't have the chops necessary to go poking around inside the VM implementation and know what the fuck is happening
<slyphon> i've been working on an extension that needs to make use of threads, and may be used by people using Resque, which is fork-based
<slyphon> and i have bumped into many things that seem like they should not happen
<slyphon> like segfaults because of memory corruption in thread pointers
<erikh> corruption goes well with nutella
<slyphon> things where i open up gdb and say "I don't see any of my C code here"
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<slyphon> erikh: maybe in france
<erikh> is this 1.9.x?
<slyphon> yep
<erikh> wow
<slyphon> granted, i'm pushing the envelope
<erikh> how so?
<slyphon> i'm not bragging
<erikh> not saying you are
<slyphon> i'm trying to fork while having multiple threads running
<erikh> oh
<slyphon> hah, just i mean
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<slyphon> that sounded like a boast
<apeiros_> slyphon: um, afaik ruby only forks the main thread
<erikh> well, ruby 1.9 makes the guarantee you'll only have the current thread running when fork is called
<slyphon> but, i'm designing with that in mind
<slyphon> yes
<slyphon> that's the idea
<slyphon> that's how posix does it
<slyphon> and i want that behavior
<erikh> I haven't seen anything to the contrary to that
<erikh> but maybe I'm not touching the right naughty bits
<slyphon> i shouldn't hit that
<slyphon> i'm not fucking good enough to cause that
<slyphon> you'll notice, there is nothing in that trace that came from zkrb_*
<slyphon> if there were, i'd be like "Ok, my bad, i'm out
<slyphon> "
<erikh> and you grepped for "keeping_mutexes must be NULL" ?
<slyphon> it's somewhere i shouldn't be
<erikh> it's probably trying to free the extraneous threads post-fork
<slyphon> yeah, and that shouldn't die
<slyphon> i mean
<slyphon> look, i understand, i'm not even criticizing
<slyphon> oh not that one
<slyphon> shit
<erikh> haha I was goign to say
<erikh> double free is not the rpoblem here
<erikh> but... it was merged
<erikh> and I can't read japanese
<slyphon> yeah
<slyphon> hahahahha
<slyphon> erikh: so, y'know, it didn't actually get fixed
<slyphon> and i'm not fucking smart enough to come up with a simple reproduction
<slyphon> since the test that causes this is really intense
<erikh> if diablo wasn't so much more important I'd try to help
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<erikh> not that I would be very helpful
<erikh> but it'd be fun to try
<slyphon> hahahah
<slyphon> eh
<erikh> are you deadlocking right after the fork or something?
<slyphon> i'm trying to figure out *one* way to do it
<erikh> that'd probably make this code freak out
<slyphon> that was when i caused an exception immediately after the fork
<erikh> oh
<slyphon> again, this shouldn't crash the VM
<erikh> oh agreed
<erikh> but.... to reproduce is to fix
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<slyphon> i guess, it's timing too
<slyphon> it seems
<erikh> probably.
<erikh> hrm
<slyphon> annoying
<erikh> you could probably slow down the fork if you allocate a fuckton of objects
<erikh> that's a si unit
<slyphon> anyway, i'm gonna try and write into my lib a way to "pause" before fork
<slyphon> that would shut down all the threads and shit and spin it up again after
<erikh> oh!
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<erikh> are you keeping a ruby mutex in a non-volatile value in a non-ruby thread?
* slyphon thinks
<erikh> guessing, but still
<slyphon> no, don't think so
<slyphon> i did a massive rewrite a week ago to only have ruby threads
<slyphon> under the covers it's now an event loop you have to pump by hand
<erikh> I see.
<slyphon> so the idea was
<slyphon> fork in the main thread
<slyphon> "Oh! the event thread is dead! great!"
<slyphon> close the connection
<slyphon> create a new low-level connection
<slyphon> on your way!
<slyphon> the reality is slighlty harder it seems
<erikh> hrm
<slyphon> (twss)
<erikh> yeah, I just am not smart enough (heh!) to help out
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<slyphon> erikh: dude, i'm not smart enough to *write this in the first place*
<slyphon> but, y'know, it's fun to try :)
<erikh> heh
<drbrain> thread + fork is fraught with peril
<erikh> lmk if you get a repro, i'm curious now
<slyphon> :)
<slyphon> drbrain: it seems like if you're doing it in C, that *should* work
<slyphon> if you follow the rules
<erikh> man, my new boss hacks on android kernels
<erikh> that sounds like fun
<slyphon> hah
<slyphon> yeah, totally
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<slyphon> i never wanted to write these stupid ruby extensions
<slyphon> i always wnated to be
<erikh> yes you did
<slyphon> A LUMBERJACK!
<erikh> SWINGING FROM TREE TO TREE
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<slyphon> :D
<slyphon> ah, i feel better now
<erikh> ok I really need coffee
<erikh> lata
<slyphon> lata
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<rue> Hmh
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<andrewvos> What? What just went on here?
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<drbrain> andrewvos: thread vs fork vs monty python
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<rue> Reciting Monty Python is sacrilege
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<drbrain> rue: apparently, so is mixing threads with fork
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<rue> drbrain: They’re about the same
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<postmodern> i haven't gotten an answer to this rspec question, so im asking here
<postmodern> if you are to gem-up some common spec-helpers, is it OK to call RSpec.configure multiple times, to add before(:suite) blocks?
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<fragrant> Is recursion function available in ruby?
<postmodern> fragrant, you can write recursive functions in ruby, if that's what your asking?
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<drbrain> postmodern: maybe they wondered if they could implement the y-combinator
<postmodern> drbrain, ah like currying
<drbrain> well… no
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<drbrain> currying is different
<postmodern> that's one way to get a ycombinator
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<drbrain> ah, yes
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<dnbert> Does anyone have a suggestion on how to import a perl object/href into a ruby script?
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<drbrain> dnbert: yaml?
<dnbert> drbrain: I was thinking of that, or maybe a json blob. Was just wondering if I was crazy thinking that way :)
<drbrain> dnbert: some serialization format it is the sanest way
<dnbert> drbrain: Thanks :)
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<drbrain> … you could embed perl in ruby (or vice versa) … that's crazy thinking
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<dnbert> drbrain: Haha, yeah, didn't want to do anything that would make my eyes bleed (more than they have to)
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