Topic for #ruby-lang is now Ruby 1.9.3p0: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 Lines of Text on http://pastie.org
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<manveru> raggi_: quite a few failures
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<manveru> wtf, rack-test now requires bundler?
<manveru> do they have to screw everything up?
<yfeldblum> manveru, where is this?
<yfeldblum> yes, but where did they a `require "bundler"`?
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<yfeldblum> that's in a spec
<manveru> it's in all specs
<manveru> anw, easy enough to circumvent
<yfeldblum> hmm they should just rely on RUBYOPT=-rbundler/setup
<yfeldblum> that is bad form
<manveru> yeah
<manveru> but i guess that won't work on 1.8
<yfeldblum> what won't?
<manveru> you can have multiple -r in your RUBYOPT ?
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<manveru> also, the -r won't use the require patched by rubygems
<yfeldblum> RUBYOPT="-rubygems -rbundler/setup" ?
<manveru> yeah
<manveru> it will require rubygems, but try to require bundler using the unpatched require method
<manveru> well, at least that's how it was 5 years ago
<manveru> maybe 1.8.7 fixed that
<manveru> anyway, rack-test specs seem to pass
<manveru> it has 40 warnings or so, most related to sinatra though
<yfeldblum> hmm that is true
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<yfeldblum> 'bundle exec rspec spec' then
<manveru> well, afaik both rbx and jruby now support -G for gemfiles
<manveru> maybe mri will get there too
<manveru> i'll just stick with rvm and ~/.rubylib
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<raggi_> manveru: i've been wanting to make gemspecs activateable from local dirs for a while, just haven't got aroudn to it yet
<raggi_> [SEC][ANN] Rack version 1.1.3, 1.2.5, 1.3.6, and 1.4.0 have all just been released. I recommend you upgrade!
<manveru> u oh
<manveru> guess i gotta fork rack-test then
<raggi_> let me look
<raggi_> manveru: all rack-test tests are passing
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<manveru> yeah
<manveru> but mine ain't
<raggi_> ok
<manveru> trouble with redirects again
<raggi_> ramaze right?
<manveru> innate
<raggi_> is ramaze/innate the canonical?
<manveru> ramze by proxy
<manveru> *ramaze
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<raggi_> grr, uppercase org names :(
<manveru> well, innate is the framework core, ramaze just packs a bunch of dependencies on top :)
<raggi_> mess with my autoscripts
<raggi_> manveru: yeah, the canonical repo is github.com/ramaze/innate right?
<raggi_> not your fork?
<manveru> yeah
<manveru> Pistos made that, he loves capitalizing
<raggi_> perlers =)
<raggi_> i'm getting something about a missing config, and all the specs are fialing to load rack
<manveru> you got rvm?
<raggi_> rbenv
<raggi_> rvm is a pain in my ass
<manveru> well, get yourself bacon, rack, and rack-test
<manveru> dependencies are listed in .gems
<raggi_> i have those
<raggi_> rack depends on em too ;)
<manveru> not sure what you mean with missing config
<raggi_> er, yeah, you don't need to require rake in a rakefile :-P
<manveru> sorry, old cargo-cult :)
<manveru> maybe you don't have RUBYOPT-rubygems and use 1.8?
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<manveru> +~=
<manveru> ... +=
<manveru> man, it's way too early :(
<raggi_> i still don't know where that configuration thing is coming from
<manveru> no idea, i don't get that
<manveru> don't think i've ever even seen it
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<manveru> seems to be from yard
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<raggi_> oh, it's yard
<raggi_> yeah
<raggi_> ffs
<raggi_> i really hate that thing
<raggi_> it blows up my test suites too
<raggi_> (in other gems)
<manveru> can't say i've had problems with it
<manveru> i mean, it blows up randomly generating docs on gem install, but who needs those docs anyway :)
<manveru> speaking of which, i haven't even seen the dr. who special yet
<manveru> shame on me
<raggi_> i don't know why you're getting 403's
<raggi_> i am guessing it might be urlmap changes
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<zenspider> damnit... my mailman server is borked again
<zenspider> fuck I'd rather pay someone to deal with this bullshit
<erikh> pobox ?
<lsegal> raggi_ how does it blow up your test suites? this is something we can fix if its actually reported
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<manveru> raggi_: looks like it, my routing stopped working partially
<manveru> hm, or not
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<manveru> oh, my, god
<manveru> that's the issue
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<manveru> why on earth
<manveru> that should be 405, but why did that get there in the first place?
<manveru> now i gotta wrap each and handle 403...
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<raggi_> manveru: because rack file doesn't support writing anything
<raggi_> it makes no sesne to post ot i
<manveru> it used to return 404
<manveru> which Rack::Cascade would handle
<manveru> so yeah, it made sense :)
<manveru> anyway, i can just wrap Rack::File and do something sane instead
<erikh> wasn't there an applescript dictionary?
<erikh> I need to write something that automates the app store
<erikh> found it
<raggi_> manveru: oh, it still returns a 404 for GET and HEAD requests
<raggi_> it just returns a forbidden for non GET/HEAD
<manveru> yes
<manveru> but all my routing passes through Rack::File first
<zenspider> any postfix experts?
<erikh> define expert
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<zenspider> someone who can fix my shit :P
<erikh> ha, what's wrong with it?
<raggi_> manveru: happy to change it back potentially, here's reference: https://github.com/rack/rack/issues/121
<erikh> raggi_: trying to write an app store package provider :)
<manveru> raggi_: well, now 1.4 is out, gotta deal with it
<zenspider> erikh: I upgraded to osx server 10.7 and now mailman can't deliver mail because it doesn't think it can relay thorugh itself
<raggi_> manveru: i'd roll you a 1.4.1 if you want
<raggi_> makes little difference tbh
<zenspider> mynetworks seems fine
<zenspider> tho I'm seeing a lot of ::1 in the rejections
<manveru> raggi_: just change it to 405 Method Not Allowed, and i'd be happy
<zenspider> I'm guessing it is an IPv6 problem
<erikh> that's localhost
<zenspider> I know
<raggi_> manveru: ok :-)
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<erikh> possible... it's been a while, but what does your /etc/postfix/transports look like?
<zenspider> transports? don't have one transport is the generic doco/comment stuff
<erikh> bb in 5
<erikh> hrm.
<erikh> maybe your mailman is configured differently than I've done it in the past
<erikh> what I've done in the past is define a transport and then in... master.cf IIRC route that transport through mailman
<erikh> man 5 transport can elaborate
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<erikh> it's been about 6-7 years though, so if that helps, great; if not I'm sorry
<zenspider> it was ::1
<zenspider> stupid ipv6
<manveru> time for travis
<manveru> all pass, except for rbx 1.9 of course
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<samuelkadolph> zenspider: What do you think would be the best way to parse a gem file in Objective C? Macruby's rubygems 1.4.2 or use libarchive to extract the zlib and gz manually?
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<savage-> zenspider: thanks again for writing this: http://www.zenspider.com/Languages/Ruby/QuickRef.html
<zenspider> savage-: my pleasure. glad you like it
<savage-> zenspider: are you on twitter, by the way?
<zenspider> no
<savage-> ok, makes sense why I couldn't find you. )
<savage-> :-)
<zenspider> samuelkadolph: umm... *shrug*
<any-key> tweet tweet
<samuelkadolph> lol
<samuelkadolph> zenspider: Will 1.4.2 rubygems be able to handle the current rubygems format?
<zenspider> I'm not even sure what you mean by the first option.. . that's not objective c
<zenspider> don't see why not
<samuelkadolph> It's inside objective c
<zenspider> no, macruby == ruby
<zenspider> it's running on top of the objc runtime, but it's still ruby
<samuelkadolph> From the perspective of being a Cocoa app
<zenspider> why do you want to "parse" a gem file in objc anyhow?
<zenspider> (there's no parse... they're just tar files really)
<samuelkadolph> Yeah I know the format is simple
<samuelkadolph> That's why it wouldn't be that hard to use libarchive.
<samuelkadolph> I want to get the contents of a gem to make a viewer app
<zenspider> to view... gems?
<zenspider> why?
<savage-> side question: are macruby apps now accepted in the iOS app store / mac app store?
<zenspider> mac app store == yes, I believe
<zenspider> ios no
<samuelkadolph> macruby is fine in the Mac App Store
<samuelkadolph> But it doesn't work on iOS so you can't even try for that store
<savage-> I see.
<savage-> Why doesn't it work on iOS?
<savage-> too much memory or?
<samuelkadolph> No GC
<samuelkadolph> zenspider: I've always been tempted to write an app so you can download a .gem file from rubygems.org and just view the files
<savage-> weird, I thought they introduced a GC in iOS 5.
<samuelkadolph> No, they added automatic reference counting in Xcode 4.something which is just a compiler feature so you don't have to do any retain/release
<savage-> gotcha! ok, that makes sense.
<savage-> hopefully they introduce that in iOS 6.
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<savage-> hahaha
<savage-> hahahahaha
<savage-> zenspider: "NOTE: 1.9 has a horrible extension to allow you to define != and !~. A special place in hell is reserved for you if you define those."
<zenspider> I stand by that
<samuelkadolph> I like def false.!; false; end in irb and breaking it
<ryanf> haha that's awesome
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<savage-> 'nite!
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<rue> Magnificent funeral
<rue> Er, semi-OT for this particular channel…
<erikh> jong il funeral best funeral
<mitchty_> erikh: that funeral was il
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<Tasser> rue, how is a funeral only semi-OT?
<rue> Are you implying the Dear Leader wasn't a huge influence on Ruby?
<Tasser> ahh, that funeral
<rue> Came to power in 1994. Coincidence? I THINK NOT
<mitchty> mans got a point
<rue> Matz Is Nice So I'm EEEEVIILLLLL MUHAHAHAAHA was his slogan
<erikh> rue: how's that coffee?
<mitchty> i'm putting him at 3 http://theoatmeal.com/comics/caffeine
<erikh> heh
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<ddfreyne> zenspider: are you sad that ruby does not have #become:? ;)
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<NARKOZ> which one is better: http://pastie.org/3083585?
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<ddfreyne> NARKOZ: the latter, but remove the “hash = ” and “hash” at the end
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<ddfreyne> NARKOZ: the latter, but remove the “hash = ” and “hash” at the end
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<path[l]> Hi, if I have a ruby gem written in c, and there is a method on an exposed object, but the writer has not exposed the method using rb_define_method, is there a way to call the method anyway?
<manveru> path[l]: if the symbol is visible you can call it with ffi :P
<manveru> but probably easier is to fork the gem and define the method
<path[l]> hmm, the reason I didnt wanna do that is Im sharing a gist, and I dont want people to have to install a whole new gem.
<path[l]> let me take a look at the ffi option
<manveru> well, ffi ships with jruby and rbx, but not mri :(
<manveru> so it's a whole new gem as well there
<path[l]> ah ok. yeah I needed it for mri
<path[l]> hehe ok
<petercooper> pretty sure that's not true
<manveru> petercooper: more specific?
<petercooper> I haven't looked it up quite so quickly but.. I know fiddle is part of the stdlib
<path[l]> require 'ffi' succeeded
<petercooper> and I thought fiddle was just a ffi wrapper
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<manveru> orly?
<path[l]> I dont remember installing it
<manveru> i think dl is in stdlib, didn't know something for libffi is there
<petercooper> what throws me off is it not being in the sidebar on http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.9.3/
<petercooper> but I should hit the source code first :)
<manveru> yeah, first time i hear of it
<manveru> * A libffi wrapper.
<manveru> so inded :)
<manveru> but the API is probably way different from ffi
<petercooper> it appears fiddle will use ffi if it's installed but libffi if not
<manveru> and i fear it has little to no docs...
<petercooper> I've used fiddle several times but only ever in the context of MRI
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<manveru> it's not mentioned in rubinius
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<petercooper> color me surprised, is this the first time something has been poorly documented in Ruby, lol
<manveru> :P
<manveru> apparently tenderlove wrote it
<petercooper> Been doing a bit of Java lately.. a real eye opener in that department
<Tasser> petercooper, how do you read java docs? I barely get any information out of them
<petercooper> In my limited experience, they provide enough to get a sense of an API or an interface
<petercooper> but not enough to use it with confidence
<petercooper> You easily learn what does what, but not how it all ties together.
<petercooper> I figured that's just what 'being good at Java' was about though ;-)
<manveru> so... fiddle is a wrapper for dl really
<manveru> and dl changed to using libffi?
<manveru> path[l]: so if you know the location of the .so, you can talk to it on mri 1.9.3 at least
<path[l]> ah ok
<path[l]> cool
<manveru> lib = DL.dlopen('/path/to/the.so'); f = Fiddle::Function.new(lib['somefunc'], [TYPE_INT, TYPE_INT], TYPE_INT); f.call(1, 2)
<manveru> something like that
<manveru> haven't tried it obviously :)
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<Muse006> hi
<Muse006> ji
<Muse006> hi
<Muse006> jo
<Muse006> hkfjdfkjhf
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<manveru> lib = DL.dlopen('/opt/diet/lib-x86_64/libc.so'); f = Fiddle::Function.new(lib['printf'], [Fiddle::TYPE_VOIDP, Fiddle::TYPE_VOIDP], Fiddle::TYPE_INT); f.call('%03d', 1)
<manveru> now this actually works
<manveru> god knows how the rules for converting ruby objects to pointers work
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<Tasser> manveru, from string to voidp?
<Tasser> what is a voidp anyway?
<robgleeson> void pointer i'd guess
<manveru> yeah, a void pointer in C is a pointer that could be anything...
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<Tasser> ah
<Tasser> suspected as much
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<Tasser> manveru, I supposeffi got some rules to convert from ruby to C based on classes
<manveru> libffi doesn't, ffi does have special types for stuff like strings
<manveru> fiddle seems to have some case matching depending on the class
<Tasser> what's the difference between libff and ffi?
<Tasser> one wraps the other?
<manveru> ffi is the ruby gem
<manveru> libffi is a c library
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<manveru> so yeah
<manveru> and both dl and ffi wrap libffi, and fiddle wraps dl
<Tasser> dl?
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<burgestrand> Tasser: it’s a library in stdlib which allows you to bind functions from dynamic libraries to ruby, similar to FFI
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<Tasser> burgestrand, for windows?
<burgestrand> Tasser: don’t think it’s solely for windows, but I’m not sure, I just know you’re probably better off using FFI if you want to bind to dynamic libraries
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<Tasser> "foo\nbarbaz"[/^foo$/] # => "foo" interessting
<manveru> that's why you use \a and \Z or \z when you need them :)
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<Tasser> what's the difference between \z and \Z ?
<rippa> Z - Matches end of string. If string ends with a newline, it matches just before newline
<rippa>
<rippa> z - Matches end of string
<rippa>
<Tasser> rippa, thanks
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> what is used more often? \Z or \z ?
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<rue> Whichever you need?
<shevy> dunno
<shevy> never used either of these so far
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<rue> Perhaps neither is used, often
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<shevy> hmmm
* shevy googles for usage patterns for regexes ...
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<rue> Is there a regexp for that?
<shevy> in the universe of all possible regexes I am sure there would be
<shevy> but finding it may require a lot of time
<shevy> unfortunately there does not seem to be anyone who has anaylzed the usage of regexes much :(
<rue> They're too busy doing shit
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<shevy> guess that's true
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<init[1]> is there a Ruby Language Specification similar to Java Language Specification.
<Pip> lol
<Pip> Should be one
<init[1]> Pip, if so can you give pointers that google can't ?
<petercooper> ignoring the similar and being quite loose with the definition of specification.. http://rubyspec.org/
<petercooper> but.. there is an ISO spec too
<init[1]> petercooper, which one shall i refer to, rubyspec right ?
<petercooper> Well, that's a runnable specification of behavior mostly
<init[1]> i heard ISO one isn't actively taken care off.
<petercooper> In terms of being similar to other language specifications, the ISO one would be closer
<rue> It is, it's just useless
<rue> If *you* want to find out how something works, you can look at RubySpec
<init[1]> Well, i was just looking into formally understanding Ruby
<init[1]> rue, alright :P
<rue> The books typically give a reasonable understanding of the object model, which is the important part
<rue> Then when you've the general idea, you can branch out into details
<rue> Stuff like using pry (or irb) helps, too.
<rippa> and reading source
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<init[1]> rue, rippa noted you suggestions. thanks :)
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<yfeldblum> heh that's an executable ruby specification :P
<shevy> a ruby inside ruby
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<lianj> inside jvm inside v8
<shevy> :)
<shevy> it boggles the mind
<shevy> a python inside a ruby inside a jvm inside v8
<yorickpeterse> Inside a Mono
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<ddfreyne> missing brainfuck here somewhere
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<lianj> whitespace jit
<rippa> why not lisp
<yorickpeterse> THE PARENTHESIS, THEY ARE SO EXPRESSIVE
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> inside a monad too
<shevy> a monad on a moebius strip
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<shevy> yeah, the ()()()() if properly aligned look like a moebius strip
<yorickpeterse> hahaha
<robgleeson> (what(do(you(mean))))
<robgleeson> (totally(readable(come(on(you(know(it))))))
<rippa> go python style
<shevy> the universe was built as a very long ()
<rippa> replace parens with indentation
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> the universe was not build with indentation :/
<shevy> *built
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<Asher> the universe indents naturally
<rippa> but there's a lot of whitespace
<Asher> without requiring fascism :P
<lianj> it know you on come readable totally <- python
<rippa> betwee atoms
<rippa> between galaxies
<Asher> hahaha lianj
<shevy> I am still not sure if I like indentation... on the one hand, omitting "end" or similar is kinda nice ... on the other hand, I don't really *feel* as if a programming language should use indentation... but I have dived a little into Nimrod too and like it so far, despite the indentation
<Asher> what's nice about omiting end?
<Asher> it just makes things blend together at the bottom
<robgleeson> you should always use indentation
<Asher> i know "end" is hard to type and all...
<robgleeson> so it's okay to enforce it in a language
<Asher> no it isn't!
<rippa> it's not okay when indentation has semantic meaning
<shevy> Asher that "end" conveys no meaningful information to me at all
<Asher> it helps my eye find separations in code regions
<rippa> what if you mess up indentation by pasting
<robgleeson> rippa: yeah sure, thats true
<shevy> yeah, indentation has some definite disadvantages
<robgleeson> ?
<robgleeson> like what?
<robgleeson> do you mean how it is used in Python?
<rippa> extra file size
<shevy> for instance when it is required to run a program
<robgleeson> rippa: yeah true, i write all my code on one line anyway
<robgleeson> no whitespace either
<shevy> I do this with documentation lately :)
<Asher> documentation is best when written on one line
<lianj> "merge denied: too many spaces"
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<yorickpeterse> "Error: you're using tabs/spaces and my author does not like spaces/tabs"
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<rue> TABS
<matti> rue: ? :]
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<shevy> SPACES
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<erikh> ARGUMENT
<rippa> my spaces are augmented
<rippa> *argumented
<shevy> that was an augmented argumentation
<shevy> hmm or argument
<yorickpeterse> ArgumentError: invalid argument
<yorickpeterse> rippa: I never asked for this
<rippa> I used to ask for this
<rippa> but then took an arrow to the knee implant
<yorickpeterse> hahaha, I was about to say that
<yorickpeterse> I don't always chat in IRC, but when I do I make sure to use video game references
<shevy> you are all lazy on IRC
<shevy> there's like only ten or twenty talking now and then and the boring rest idles to power
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<erikh> feh
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<rue> Feh? FEH?
<rue> Is that better than IRC?
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<erikh> how much coffee did you have?!
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<rue> A LOT
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<davpoind> can someone link me to a best practice of caching app data?
<davpoind> im making a tiny little sinatra app that will run on heroku for now. there's an expensive operation (around 8 seconds is the best i can do for now), that results in a big hash written to json to a file. where should i keep this file within the app? directory/filename? Thnx!
<rue> That doesn't really matter, unless you can serve the JSON directly. In that case, you'd want to stick it in a dir where it can be retrieved directly, preferrably by the web server
<davpoind> rue: that's what i think i want to do
<rue> So you'd likely want it in public/ ?
<davpoind> im just wondering about path and naming conventions for things like that
<davpoind> well, im not going to serve the whole thing, directly
<davpoind> it's basically my whole data store. i will use this to determine what to serve back to the requester
<rue> Then it doesn't matter, just put it somewhere. tmp/, data/, whatever, and load it up
<rue> Although maybe you'd be better off with an actual data store?
<davpoind> rue: that's another thought that ran through my mind
<davpoind> the data won't change often, at all
<rue> Still, if you're serving it piecemeal, it's worth looking into
<davpoind> but, im all about performance and maintenance. so im seeking advice of those better than me... which is about everyone at this point
<davpoind> lets make this concrete... bear with me
<rue> (Assuming it's not just a bunch of separate documents, in which case you'd want to look at the filesystem again)
<rue> I'm bearing right into bed, but someone'll pick up the slack, I'm sure
<davpoind> i have a list of IP addresses... some are whole blocks. they have data associated with each one. attributes are: what campus, wired or wireless IP, secure or guest
<davpoind> ok rue sorry to catch ya at a bad time, thanks for your help so far though
<curtism> {:foo => 1, :bar => 2}.mystery {|x| x + 1} #=> {:foo => 2, :bar => 2}
<curtism> does the method mystery exist?
<rue> davpoind: Not at all, just describe the problem, and someone'll help
<davpoind> not amiliar with that syntax
<curtism> er, that last 2 should be a 3
<davpoind> oh got lost here
<davpoind> ok, thanks rue you've helped get me thinking
<davpoind> i feel like an idiot all the time... and i've been at this for quite a while :|
<shevy> curtism, not in default ruby
<curtism> shevy: that makes me sad... What would be a good alternative (not too ugly)
<burgestrand> curtism: no, but you could probably make one with Hash#update, just pass the hash itself to it and supply the block
<burgestrand> hash.update(hash) { |key, value| new_value }
<shevy> I'm not even sure what .mystery does or is supposed to do
<curtism> {:foo => 1, :bar => 2}.mystery {|x| x + 1} #=> {:foo => 2, :bar => 3}
<curtism> shevy: it's like map, except only changes values
<shevy> wasn't that the same code before, with another result? :\
<curtism> burgestrand: that looks like it'll work, thanks
<shevy> <curtism> {:foo => 1, :bar => 2}.mystery {|x| x + 1} #=> {:foo => 2, :bar => 2}
<curtism> shevy: i typo'd
<shevy> kkk
<ChloeD> curtism: you just implement it.
<shevy> already wondered how how mystery there is in it hehehe
<shevy> *how much
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<dFire> Hello
<dFire> Quick (hopefully) question: I had to override the load method in a class, but I want to call the original load in that same class. How do I do this?
<batasrki> dFire: alias_method
<postmodern> does Kernel.rand() actually use the systems random() function?
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<dFire> batasrki: Thanks, worked a charm.
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<manveru> postmodern: no
<manveru> ruby has its own pseudo-random algorithm to be platform-independent
<manveru> and there's SecureRandom now, which uses /dev/random and the like, depending on the platform
<postmodern> manveru, ah ha thanks
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<aarkerio> hi! I am PHP developer, and I am wondering: what "?" means in stuff like this?
<aarkerio> def has_read_access_to?(wiki_or_forum)
<aarkerio> is something about the "void" stuff ?
<Jake232> aarkerio: It's just a normal method, ? is a valid character in a ruby method.
<Jake232> However
<Jake232> It's convention that the method will return either true or false, and is ussually used to check whether something exists, has access, etc et
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<aarkerio> cool! I think was a Ruby syntaxis
<shevy> aarkerio come to the dark side :D
<shevy> to ruby!
<aarkerio> well, I am enjoying this!
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