<shevy>
sometimes I feel as if my classes evolve on their own
<shevy>
and carry dead weight
<shevy>
like under-used or obsoleted instance variables
<Jake232>
It seems trying to calculate the first billion primes, may have been a little bit of a problem
<Jake232>
for my function
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<Jake232>
haha
<shevy>
2 months using ruby
<shevy>
and already breaking it
<shevy>
you make me sad :(
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<Jake232>
Yea
<Jake232>
The first million was fine
<Jake232>
Whats the most efficient way, to loop through an array, but skipping a element at a time
<Jake232>
eg: Only looping through every other element
<manveru>
Jake232: most efficient?
<manveru>
in terms of what?
<Jake232>
Time taken
<manveru>
hm
<manveru>
how big is the array?
<Jake232>
1 Million
<manveru>
0.step(a.size, 2){|n| a[n] }
<Jake232>
o.O
<manveru>
it's around 7 times faster than each_slice(2)
<manveru>
of course, even faster would be a while loop
<Jake232>
How cna you call the step method
<Jake232>
on 0
<Jake232>
Isn't it for ranges?
<manveru>
no
<manveru>
Fixnum responds to step
<manveru>
>> a = [*500_000..1_500_000]; Benchmark.realtime{ n, s = 0, a.size; while n <= s; a[n]; n += 2; end }
<manveru>
=> 0.01916417
<manveru>
that's around 60% faster still
<manveru>
since you don't need to mess with blocks
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<Jake232>
I was unsure what a = [*500_000..1_500_000] did
<Jake232>
so
<Jake232>
I typed p a;
<Jake232>
turns out
<Jake232>
that was also
<Jake232>
a bad idea.
<manveru>
lol
<manveru>
it makes an array with 1 million elements
<Jake232>
Whats the * at the beggining for?
<manveru>
that's a splat
<Jake232>
Alright, now I'm out of RAM
<Jake232>
Better stop this
<Jake232>
haha
<manveru>
the thing is equivalent to (500_000..1_500_000).to_a
<livinded>
killall ruby!
<livinded>
do it now!
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<manveru>
also the same as Array.new(1_000_000){|n| 500_000 + n }
<Jake232>
1.1000000.each do |n|; a << n; end;
<Jake232>
6 is that bad?
<Jake232>
No idea where that random 6 came from.
<manveru>
wut?
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<manveru>
you call .each on a float?
<Jake232>
suppose to be ..
<Jake232>
for a range
<manveru>
then use () around it and use ..
<shevy>
I call .each on your moms!
<manveru>
anyway, using a range is slow
<manveru>
but it's more memory efficient
<Jake232>
Aren't you also creating a range though, and then converting to an array?
<Jake232>
(500_000..1_500_000).to_a
<manveru>
yeah
<manveru>
but i use the array, the range is just for construction
<manveru>
as i showed you above, there are many other ways to get the same result
<manveru>
anyway, if you can't even fit a million elements in your memory, i'd suggest buying some ram
<Jake232>
I've got 4GB, but I have alot of things running.
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<manveru>
that array isn't even 5MB
<manveru>
if you put it through .inspect (i.e. trying it in irb), then that might take tons of cpu though :)
<Jake232>
Well, my IDE that was running it
<Jake232>
jumped from like
<Jake232>
100mb
<Jake232>
to just over 600mb
<Jake232>
So it didn't like it.
<manveru>
lo
<manveru>
oh well
<manveru>
my "IDE" takes 150kb
<shevy>
vim?
<manveru>
and it never tries to run stuff for me
<manveru>
yeah
<erikh>
my copy of vim takes a little more than that :)
<shevy>
what do you use Jake232?
<Jake232>
Sublime
<Jake232>
I started using Vim like 2 months back, put up with it for like a month
<Jake232>
decided it wasn't for me
<manveru>
still, isn't your editor supposed to help you?
<erikh>
it's not a science
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<erikh>
you gotta work to make your editor work for you
<manveru>
shape your tools or your tools shape you :)
<Jake232>
Sublime works fine for me, it's never crashed previously.
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<livinded>
Jake232: you just haven't worked it hard enough
<erikh>
does it crash frequently? I have a co-worker raving about it.
<livinded>
no idea, I've never used it
<Jake232>
This is the first time it's crashed, but I love it.
<livinded>
I switched from textmate back to vim and haven't looked back
<manveru>
making an array of 1 million elements def. shouldn't crash it :P
<Jake232>
It was printing them
<Jake232>
that killed it
<livinded>
textmate 2 was so underwhelming, especially after 5 years
<shevy>
really?
<shevy>
what annoys me is that it is mac only
<manveru>
don't worry, you're not missing much
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<erikh>
I don't think I could use an editor that didn't have a shell equivlaent
<erikh>
vim or emacs, jed, joe, etc
<manveru>
i wish we finally had decent collaborative editors
<erikh>
they always hipster them up
<Jake232>
Woo, my prime number works.
<erikh>
just need a good mode for emacs or vim :P
<manveru>
well, it's not possible to have more than one cursor in either
<erikh>
to me that sounds like a solvable, but complexity:need problem
<manveru>
and working in a shared tmux or something is quite annoying, since you never know who wants to work on what and when
<Jake232>
This actually seems to work pretty quick, hmm.
<manveru>
erikh: wave solved it...
<erikh>
google wave?
<manveru>
yeah
<erikh>
it was a little overboard imo
<SuperTaz>
I'd kill for a good collaborative editor
<manveru>
that was just the UI
<erikh>
fair
<manveru>
everybody looked just at the UI :P
<erikh>
well, that's what UIs are supposed to be there for
<erikh>
:P
<SuperTaz>
I think something like RubyMine will be what first implements one
<Jake232>
Anyway, I'm off guys. 12.37 AM here
<Jake232>
or 00.37, if you prefer that ;)
<Jake232>
Cya
<erikh>
Jake232: have fun.
<manveru>
SuperTaz: there are subetha and gobby
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<manveru>
subetha only for mac though
<SuperTaz>
manveru: neither is really well-suited to an actual team, though
<manveru>
and gobby is very much just a notepad with syntax highlighting
<manveru>
yeah
<SuperTaz>
RubyMine is actually a pretty good IDE
<manveru>
that's why i'm not using them
<manveru>
who needs an IDE?
<SuperTaz>
there are definitely some good things about IDEs
<manveru>
if you write java, sure
<SuperTaz>
even if you write ruby
<SuperTaz>
especially when you do large refactorings and/or have large codebases
<manveru>
which i don't
<SuperTaz>
right
<manveru>
for mass rename there is sed
<erikh>
sed is an inadequate tool for proper refactoring
<manveru>
for most other repetitive stuff bufdo works fine
<erikh>
but ruby doesn't really make it easy to do proper refactoring editing
<SuperTaz>
but I have and continue to work on ruby code that powers some very high RPS web technologies
<manveru>
at least the tool doesn't pretend to understand what the hell it's doing
<SuperTaz>
and so we do have large codebases
<manveru>
well, if you do rails, you'll probably benefit from and IDE
<manveru>
*an
<SuperTaz>
and an IDE makes it a lot easier for a whole team of engineers with various levels of knowledge of things like sed to use the same tools and pair with each other
<erikh>
eh
<SuperTaz>
manveru: we do some Rails, we do some Padrino
<manveru>
try pairing over 100k km
<SuperTaz>
manveru: we do lots of stuff that's neither, too
<SuperTaz>
you pair with someone on the moon?
<manveru>
sorry, 0 too much :)
<SuperTaz>
okay
<SuperTaz>
*whew*
<manveru>
lol
<manveru>
i wish
<SuperTaz>
I thought there was a moonbase I hadn't heard of ;)
<SuperTaz>
and I've done that, though...I want RubyMine to be able to work collaboratively
<SuperTaz>
even pairing across town needs that
<SuperTaz>
or pairing between San Francisco and Los Angeles
<manveru>
aye
<SuperTaz>
a bunch of us also use visual editors for stuff on servers and whatnot, but I'll say this:
<manveru>
for really simple stuff you can still use etherpad
<SuperTaz>
if you have to do a refactoring across 10 files, and you're renaming a variable or constant (like a class name), you often want to be able to see what's going to be done first, and make sure you only change the right things
<SuperTaz>
that's something a bona fide IDE can do that vim and other editors can't...and that's the sort of operation that makes the case for actual IDEs in my mind
<andrewvos>
What?
<andrewvos>
What what what?
<SuperTaz>
if you add in collaborative editing, then you have the ability to have functional pairing across multiple sites...that's awesome
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<manveru>
andrewvos: you voice my thoughts :)
<andrewvos>
SuperTaz: So you think renaming a class across multiple files is enough reason to work with an IDE?
<andrewvos>
Fals.
<andrewvos>
False.
<shevy>
let's stick to Fals!
<SuperTaz>
andrewvos: it's an example of a class of things that make the case for an IDE
<SuperTaz>
not the only class, nor the only example
<shevy>
collaborative editing would be fun
<andrewvos>
People will argue anything that they're too lazy to learn.
<shevy>
imagine manveru hacking on something and I could watch him and ... and EVEN INSERT exit() throughout his code!!!
<shevy>
yeah andrewvos
<shevy>
is how I gave up on vim
<andrewvos>
shevy: Use tmux
<SuperTaz>
andrewvos: I've been using vi for over 2 decades, and still use it daily, so I'd be really careful before you start saying I'm too lazy to learn
<shevy>
uh oh
<shevy>
a fight!
<SuperTaz>
naw
* shevy
fetches popcorn.
<shevy>
andrewvos he insulted your honour and your cojones!
<SuperTaz>
I'm not going to get into <insert technology class> wars
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<andrewvos>
SuperTaz: Ok well then I'll change my stance. Your reason for switching is unfounded.
<shevy>
ok ok...
<SuperTaz>
just saying...there are use cases for IDEs
<shevy>
but it would have been an awesome fight
<shevy>
your reason for stitching is unfounded!
<SuperTaz>
andrewvos: didn't switch...I've been using IDEs AND editors for years...they have their uses
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<andrewvos>
shevy: I argue wth someone pretty much every time I come in here. It's the best way to learn ;)
<shevy>
hmm ok wait
<shevy>
you use an IDE _and_ vi ?
<SuperTaz>
yes, why wouldn't I?
<SuperTaz>
I also use my IDE's git integration AND git on the command line
<andrewvos>
Sadly I have to run
<SuperTaz>
oh, the horror!
<guns>
vi is a far cry from a souped-up vim
<SuperTaz>
sure, but at the end of the day, there's a lot I can do in an IDE that's more efficient than doing it in an editor
<guns>
SuperTaz: with the appropriate statically typed language
<SuperTaz>
or the appropriate dynamically typed language
<SuperTaz>
frankly, I think that anyone who can't see the use for multiple types of tools along with the frustrations of using them in certain cases is limiting their own abilities
<SuperTaz>
I'm not saying vim/<insert your editor of choice> is bad, I'm saying there are cases where something else is a better tool
<SuperTaz>
and then there are other cases where it's the best tool
<guns>
Well, consider that vim + plugins may have a good deal more coverage than you may think, if you are just a vi use
<shevy>
thank god he ain't using nano
<SuperTaz>
lol
<shevy>
I am kidding though
<shevy>
I like nano. I think it could have a few more features... but by and large, nano is alright
<SuperTaz>
except I work with someone who uses it sometimes
<SuperTaz>
and I always cringe a little
<guns>
The world would be a better place without word processors, that's certain anyway
<SuperTaz>
(and we use macs, so technically we have vim, not plain vi)
<SuperTaz>
I'll say this, though...no matter what you use to write and edit your code...if you have to use a menu for everything, there's no advantage ;)
<erikh>
^
<SuperTaz>
out of curiosity, since a few people are in here and active right now...how many of you are polyglots?
<guns>
haha define
<SuperTaz>
a polyglot knows multiple languages
<guns>
yes, how many pls = poly
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<SuperTaz>
but I'm using it in the sense of actively writing code in more than one language on a regular basis
<heftig>
sh, c, java, ruby
<SuperTaz>
i.e. working on projects that span multiple languages in the full technology stack
<heftig>
ah, that not so much
<SuperTaz>
heftig: how many do you use regularly, though?
<heftig>
rather multiple things in different languages
<heftig>
SuperTaz: those four.
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<SuperTaz>
ahhh, but your projects don't usually interact between them?
<heftig>
no
<guns>
SuperTaz: You have a single language per domain
<guns>
so web apps usually have 2-3
<SuperTaz>
define 2-3 for a web app?
<shevy>
SuperTaz well depends ... I use Ruby almost exclusively. A bit of Nimrod here and there ... sometimes javascript if I have to (boy, I hate it, I always want to use ruby) ... but by and large I try to avoid languages other than ruby whenever possible
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<heftig>
SuperTaz: ruby for server-side, html and css for presentation, javascript for client-side
<shevy>
yeah, the WWW is getting more and more complicated
<SuperTaz>
okay, let's take html and css out of consideration, as they're pretty much a given for web
<SuperTaz>
let's talk about actual functional code
<SuperTaz>
vs. layout
<SuperTaz>
my team is using ruby, javascript, and java for the most part...we have other teams that use other languages
<SuperTaz>
we have some shell scripts, etc., too, but not really counting those
<guns>
SuperTaz: I don't think that's exceptionally unique. I wouldn't call all web app devs polyglots though
<heftig>
html/css3 is turing-complete
<SuperTaz>
no, I don't consider javascript as enough to qualify
<guns>
bah
<guns>
js has higher order funcs
<guns>
everything else falls into place
<SuperTaz>
well, not unless you're using it in the context of node, etc.
<SuperTaz>
if you're just scripting in the browser, it's pretty much a necessity for most modern web apps
<SuperTaz>
of course, we do a lot of heavier lifting in the browser, so maybe it should be considered
<guns>
the nice thing about webapps for a polyglot programmer is that the server component can be written in anything
<SuperTaz>
I guess if we say javascript is a given, along with html and css and shell scripting, how many other languages?
<SuperTaz>
sure
<guns>
and more and more, JS is a compilation target for other langs (clojurescript, coffeescrtip)
<SuperTaz>
yup
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<guns>
Are oyu looking for a survey of langs used
<SuperTaz>
naw, I'm just curious to hear what other people use
<guns>
C, ruby, bash, js, clojure
<guns>
ruby really does fill a nice chunk of everyday problem solving though
<SuperTaz>
I have used over 20 languages over the years, but actively I'd say it's just ruby, js, scala, and ruby for me right now...I haven't been doing a lot of C in the last couple of years
<SuperTaz>
it does
<SuperTaz>
I actually use it in favor of shell scripting a lot of the time
<SuperTaz>
because it's a lot clearer and more people can understand what it's doing on the team
<SuperTaz>
not to mention, I can write ruby faster than shell scripts these days, because I do more of them
<guns>
I wrote a bash scripting library and a hash table implementation years ago.
<guns>
a true waste of time
<SuperTaz>
lol
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<SuperTaz>
one thing I've noticed is that I like scala a lot, because it's concise and readable like ruby, but is compilable, which makes it capable of blistering speed
<SuperTaz>
not to say that ruby isn't fast...most people would be astonished at how fast we've gotten our ruby web apps to be...but it's kind of interesting to leverage more than one technology in the same stack, where you use each to take advantage of its benefits over the other(s)
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<rue>
SuperTaz: I can't find the motivation to learn Scala properly on my own; perhaps if it's needed for work. It's just too large
<SuperTaz>
it's actually not that bad at all
<imperator>
scala sucks
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<rue>
SuperTaz: Yes, it really is. Sizewise. It's a nice functional language, but I can't justify the cost
<SuperTaz>
cost vs what?
<imperator>
rue, nice? it's the java of the fp world
<rue>
Versus learning something else
<rue>
Clojure might be nice, it'd be useful to have a good lisp
<SuperTaz>
not sure what you mean by large
<SuperTaz>
it wasn't hard for me to learn at all...do you have any background in C or Java?
<rue>
It's not C, or Java, though. It's a functional language with an elaborate full-blown object system, which importantly has to go through all kinds of hoops to map into a consistent model over the JVM
<rue>
I can write Ruby in Scala without too much trouble. But, then, I can just write Ruby
<SuperTaz>
why would you write ruby in scala?
<rue>
Why indeed
<rue>
imperator: That's slightly true, but it's certainly the most useful one out there given the JVM ecosystem
<SuperTaz>
I'm not sure I'd refer to Scala as a functional language with an object system, it's a language that blends OOP with FP on top of the JVM, using a concise syntax that feels more like a dynamic language
<SuperTaz>
less boilerplate code and more nuts and bolts
<SuperTaz>
certainly wouldn't call it the Java of the FP world...I'd probably call it one of the best languages on the JVM
<SuperTaz>
but that's because I'd eliminate most of the languages on the JVM from consideration
<SuperTaz>
I like what it gives you over Java...if I have to mate something on the JVM with Ruby, it's generally going to be Scala
<rue>
“I'm not sure I'd refer to Scala as a functional language with an object system” is part of the problem :)
<imperator>
JRuby
<rue>
Too many things
<rue>
SuperTaz: Anyway, if it works for you, great! You certainly *can* be very effective using Scala. I've tried to read the books a few times, and just get bored when I find myself about 10% in at 300 pages
<SuperTaz>
which books?
<SuperTaz>
I've read 2 and played with it
<SuperTaz>
I basically found that that approach was easy and I was up and running in no time
<rue>
That's {Ruby,Java,Python} in Scala
<rue>
There's a lot of subtlety in there
<rue>
If I had to (re)learn either Scala or Java, I'd obviously pick the former. But I haven't had to
<SuperTaz>
I dunno...it's not all 3 of those in one, imho
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<SuperTaz>
I use JRuby...it's great for what I use it for, but when I need something non-ruby on the JVM, I definitely prefer Scala over Java
<SuperTaz>
and I guess I might be tempted to learn Clojure and use that, but I compared Scala and Clojure and a few other JVM languages when making the decision, and it seemed to me that Scala was the most practical for several reasons
<SuperTaz>
anyway, it's like most things...whatever fits you and your needs best is what you should use
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<SuperTaz>
I just happen to like the feel of Scala over that of Clojure, and like the blend of FP and OOP
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<josh9>
can someone explain what's going on here: ['a','b','c'].permutation.map &:join i know that .permutation returns an enumerator. but what is it capable of? where do i find it?
<rippa>
what enumerator is capable of or what permutation is capable of?
<josh9>
rippa: enumerator. how do i know i can run map on it? and what's in it?
<josh9>
rippa: ok. it looks like map belongs to enumerable that is included in enumerator
<rippa>
yes
<rippa>
you can check this with
<rippa>
[1,2,3].permutation.method(:map)
<rippa>
=> #<Method: Enumerator(Enumerable)#map>
<josh9>
yes
<josh9>
rippa: so ['a','b','c'].permutation holds all the permutations of a,b and c, and the only way for me to see it's content is using an iterator like map or each?
<rippa>
josh9: you can supply a block
<rippa>
or do ['a','b','c'].permutation.to_a
<josh9>
nice
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<josh9>
question regarding mixing a module. if i call bark inside my module, and bark belong to dog object, it makes the module dependent on the dog, right?
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<rue>
josh9: Yes; you should rely on that very judiciously (and make it clear if you do)
<rue>
For example the Enumerable contract is that whatever it's included or extend into has an #each
<josh9>
rue: gotcha
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<josh9>
rue: I just read it in 'Eloquent Ruby' - chapter 17: 'Use Blocks to Iterate'
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<rue>
How was it?
<josh9>
rue: just jumped to this section so i am not sure yet. didn't read anything yet..
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<NARKOZ>
must I use uppercases in class name?
<NARKOZ>
like: class UNKNOWN_ERROR < StandardError; end vs class Unknown_Error < StandardError; end
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<lianj>
NARKOZ: no
<erikh>
just first letter
<NARKOZ>
camelcase?
<NARKOZ>
no underscores?
<josh9>
NARKOZ: the convention is CamelCase
<ryanf>
underscores for locals only
<ryanf>
and filenames
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<ryanf>
uh and constants that aren't classes
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<hgwells>
rubymine is nice
<hgwells>
with the tab autocomplete
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<sheldonh>
is "The Well-Grounded Rubyist" awesome for intermediate+ ruby developers? i've been looking for something like Effective Java for my team, and am hoping this is it
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<rue>
I think Eloquent might be better? Not read either, though, so
<kmmndr>
hi all :-)
<kmmndr>
there is a method to have method name : __method__
<kmmndr>
is there a way to have the name of the function called, if the method is aliased ?
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<andrewvos>
Guys, some douche is torrenting stuff on the wifi network at work. Thoughts on how I find their ip address and ban them on the router?
<rippa>
take shotgun and go asking
<andrewvos>
rippa: HR would get all whiny
<heftig>
andrewvos: packet sniffing
<kmmndr>
andrewvos: do you have access to the router ? is it a linux box ? --> install iptraf
<heftig>
either look for high volume, or for the bittorrent tracker announcements.
<andrewvos>
kmmndr: I have acces to it. It's a crappy dir-655 netgear
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<heftig>
given that it's wifi, you should be able to get the MAC address at least, in the encrypted traffic.
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<sheldonh>
stackoverflow.com: Tumbleweed badge: Asked a question with no votes, no answers, no comments, and low views for a week.
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<manveru>
:P
<shevy>
sheldonh that's because you don't know how to ask
<sheldonh>
shevy: good to see the assumption mill grinding away merrily
<shevy>
sheldonh: any time
<sheldonh>
shevy: it's better during eastern standard time :)
<shevy>
one has to be provocative
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<sheldonh>
shevy: lest the world drown in an oversupply of fishnet
<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
is there a way to filter stackoverflow?
<shevy>
for instance, PHP questions show up. I'd like to filter them away
<injekt>
'ignored tags'
<shevy>
ah cool
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<sheldonh>
and it's bookmark-friendly. wonderful stuff
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<zumbi_>
hello, I am trying to compile ruby1.9.1 and when running testsuite I get a message with: 7edab000-7edcc000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 [stack] , then a note that I might have found a ruby bug, is there some way to help out providing better output?
<zumbi_>
(for a bug report)
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<imperator>
$SAFE is an unfortunate perlism that made its way into ruby
<imperator>
sanboxing ftw
<sheldonh>
imperator: yeah, i hear the opinion offered a lot, i've just found it hard to discover the motivation behind the opinion. lots of links to sandboxing code that assumes you already know why $SAFE is bad
<shevy>
hmmm lots of rails-specific question :(
<shevy>
sanboxing? did you mean sunboxing?
<injekt>
zumbi_: why are you trying to compile 1.9.1?
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<shevy>
imperator vs. sun ... who is gonna win ...
<sheldonh>
shevy: yeah. helps to filter out: ruby-on-rails ruby-on-rails-3 ruby-on-rails-3.1 sinatra, but even that ain't perfect
<injekt>
zumbi_: you should at least use a stable ruby version :)
<shevy>
zumbi_ that looks like an odd stack trace
<imperator>
shevy, oracle
<shevy>
hah this is a cool question "How do I implement Ruby's ?.each? method in Java?"
<sheldonh>
shevy: what's your answer? the Command pattern? :)
<shevy>
to that?
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<shevy>
I don't know Java sufficiently well to even try answer that
<shevy>
sheldonh I think one problem with stackoverflow is ... what if you are kinda sitting on reputation 1 for years
<zumbi_>
injekt: you mean 1.9.1 is not ready for production?
<sheldonh>
shevy: that's very, very hard to do :)
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<injekt>
zumbi_: uh, well.. 1.9.1 was declared 'stable' in one of it's versions, but it's very broken, and nobody uses it :)
<sheldonh>
shevy: but even so, your answers are still seen. rep just gives people a next to useless indicator of the product of your time spent on SO and what other people have gotten out of it
<shevy>
hehe
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<zumbi_>
injekt: what is recommended 'stable'
<injekt>
zumbi_: 1.9.2 or 1.9.3 in the 1.9 series
<injekt>
1.8.7 in the 1.8 series
<zumbi_>
injekt: well, thanks
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<zumbi_>
injekt: oh I see, I need 1.9.1 to compile 1.9.3
<injekt>
what?
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<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
and 1.8.7 to compile 1.9.1!!!
<shevy>
I like zumbi_ :)
<sheldonh>
zumbi_: are you sure you don't need miniruby, created as part of the ruby build? what makes you say you need 1.9.1 to build 1.9.3?
<zumbi_>
it might be some distro dependency, not sure why is there, but I have a 1.9.1 dependency on 1.9.3 package
<shevy>
zumbi_ just stick to the latest, either 1.8.7 or 1.9.3xxx
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<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
distributions love to make life more complicated
<injekt>
not all of them
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<injekt>
deb stuff is certainly the worst, though :)
<zumbi_>
shevy: well, distros have other packages depending on those versions, so its not straight forward to remove a package in favor of the later
<shevy>
poor zumbi_
<shevy>
oh I know the justifications for making life harder than it ought to be
<zumbi_>
shevy: rich on big fun
<sheldonh>
zumbi_: i am a debian contributor and managed a network of 1,400 debian servers for a web hosting company for 3 years, using ruby for some provisioning whatnot. i fought popular opinion for a long, long time, but now i agree... if you get stuck, just don't use debian's ruby :(
<shevy>
zumbi_ :)
<injekt>
:D
<injekt>
rbenv <3
<shevy>
oh dear
<deryl>
shevy: I was as well. I have to agree with your statement
<deryl>
injekt: as shevy said.. oh dear
<injekt>
what?
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<shevy>
zumbi_ what are you going to do?
<judofyr>
don't blame the distro here. the library path for 1.9.3 is called 1.9.1
<injekt>
judofyr: library path != dependency
<shevy>
yeah I find that odd too
<zumbi_>
shevy: well, I'll probably have to start mastering ruby, which until now I have no clue
<deryl>
injekt: the rbenv love ;) but you already know where i stand with them hehe. just couldnt get my fingers to resist commenting hehe
<injekt>
I agree it's stupid on rubys behalf (the 1.9.1 path stuff)
<injekt>
deryl: :P
<deryl>
:)
<shevy>
versioning isn't that elegantly solved in the unix world. debian to use a "ruby1.8" is an abomination - you don't usually get versioned binaries
<sheldonh>
judofyr: if the distro makes ruby a build dependency of ruby, i reckon it's okay to blame the distro
<zumbi_>
sorry, its not a build depends, just a depends
<sheldonh>
zumbi_: that's even worse, and i call bullshit :)
<shevy>
ok out of curiosity
<shevy>
how do you update to the latest ruby version on debian?
<shevy>
apt-get install ruby?
<sheldonh>
zumbi_: no chance in hell is ruby1.9_1.9.1 a dependency for ruby1.9_1.9.3 :)
<deryl>
there was (at one time) a reason for it iirc. something about the build process of one of the early 1.9.x needing the 1.87 in place to bootstrap its build process.
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<injekt>
1.9_1.9.3
<injekt>
tehe
<zumbi_>
shevy: install ruby-defaults if I am not mistaken
<sheldonh>
injekt: *shrug* ruby1.9 is the package name, 1.9.3 is the version, and _ is the separator :)
<zumbi_>
no, no, its ruby1.9.1 and ruby1.9.3
<shevy>
how about
<shevy>
1.9_1.9.3-1
<injekt>
sheldonh: I know, it just makes me chuckle :)
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<shevy>
lol
<injekt>
no, rvm was a little big for me, I hardly use most of the features, and it's loaded as a shell function and does weird things like overriding cd (yes I know you can change that, but it's an example)
<shevy>
I am keeping the latest ruby 1.9.3x locally and test in little bits every day
<injekt>
and waynes reply to rbenv was a little disheartening
<sheldonh>
zumbi_: you're right about the depends. oh my sac, how they've ballsed it up. ruby is the new exim :(
<zumbi_>
sheldonh: well, if there is any useful insight, I might be able to help fix in it
<ddfreyne>
injekt: that is not really a good reason to prefer rbenv over rvm though IMO
<deryl>
injekt: the fact that sstephenson felt it necessary to trash RVM *without* so much as asking a single question of the RVM team *and* insinuating that rvm executed 'arbitrary and dangerous code' was both disheartening and malicious, just to garner project support.
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<deryl>
*that* was one of the *main* reasons wayne was so pissed off
<injekt>
ddfreyne: not sure what you want me to say, I like rvm, but rbenv is nicer IMO
<sheldonh>
zumbi_: sorry, nothing from me. perhaps contact the maintainers and offer them help testing on your platform
<ddfreyne>
i've never had any trouble with rvm
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<sheldonh>
deryl: that nearly turned me off rbenv completely
<injekt>
deryl: I agree, but most of what I read - although arrogant - was mostly precise
* zumbi_
starts by the nice online ruby tutorial
<ddfreyne>
rvm having too many features is not something you use as an argument against rvm... rvm is pretty precise about what it does and it is certainly not bloated
<injekt>
ddfreyne: I never said it was bloated, rbenv is much smaller and all I need to do is alter my $PATH, and I like that
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<deryl>
sheldonh: I totally agree that having more than one competing project is great for the community. but to state that your competitor is dangerous to your system and do so without a single solitary mention that the competitor *does* have checks in place which the *user* *has* to override is just malicious. and to state that something it does (the cd override) is dangerous and stupid *and* not to mention that it has *always* been something the ...
<deryl>
... user could turn off (and that the community had requested that it be turned on in the first place) was also malicious and wrong. thats not arrogance that malicious intent
<shevy>
:)
<shevy>
deryl's keyboard must be injured
<shevy>
look at him go!
<deryl>
hehe probably, i was pounding on it :)
<sheldonh>
deryl: yup. that was the thing that pissed me off. then, the next day, i had a really bad time with gemsets (because i'm an idiot) and tried out rbenv anyway :)
<sheldonh>
shevy: he takes "space, not enter" very seriously :)
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<shevy>
well he for sure can type fast!
<shevy>
I need to pick a side yet
<injekt>
heh, I must be a horrible person, because as soon as people start hating on my projects I give them good reasons to change their minds, not tell people to fuck off and abandon my project for a week
<deryl>
sheldonh: which i think is good. everyone *should* try out all the toolsets available for a particular space. then use the one that works best for you. I guess I'm just still rather pissed off how rbenv handled it.
<shevy>
rvm ... rbenv ...
<sheldonh>
deryl: the good news is, in 10 years time, we won't be using either of 'em :)
<deryl>
i'm hard to calm sometimes. especially something like that. I'd be pissed off at wayne if the shoe had been onthe other foot
<shevy>
haha
<deryl>
shevy: hehe damn straight :)
<shevy>
well perhaps if neither rvm nor rbenv are required to have
<deryl>
injekt: wayne's admitted that wasn't the best way to handle it.
<injekt>
deryl: then why are we debating? :D
<sheldonh>
deryl: wait, what? is this still going on? :)
<shevy>
because his mom is cooler than your mom!
<deryl>
injekt: in his defense he was under a lot of pressur that particular week. however, that being said even he doesn't think that properly excuses the behaviour
<sheldonh>
deryl: i thought this was over ages ago
<shevy>
sheldonh good things keep coming back to ya
<injekt>
deryl: that's good, and I respect him for seeing that
<deryl>
sheldonh: actually its not stephenson doing it now. its users on SO, in channels etc that are perpetuating the myths he put out there initially.
<deryl>
i have to fix the perceptions and inaccuracies several times a week still :/
<shevy>
is that the troll-mass effect?
<sheldonh>
deryl: ahhhhh. bandwagon trolls
<deryl>
sheldonh: yeah
<shevy>
yay!
<sheldonh>
deryl: much worse than bridge trolls
<deryl>
hehe
<deryl>
bridge trolls at elast stay in one spot and its easy to track them and destroy. bandwagon trolls move around too much to keep tabs on.
<sheldonh>
:)
<shevy>
hehe
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<shevy>
the rise of the modern troll
<deryl>
ok, time to grab a cup of coffee and walk my dog before i lose another arm to the couch (she's such the chewer)
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<sheldonh>
deryl: for a laugh, it's worth reading the comments of a few of DHH's blog entries. he seems to have people who follow him just to so they can tell him what an idiot he is when he posts something new. bridge trolls :)
<sheldonh>
deryl: jesus, dude. time to get a more friendly couch!
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<deryl>
sheldonh: hehe. yeah. I don't agree with a lot of DHH's commentaries, however thats no reason to constantly target him and say *everything* he says is wrong. he does have some good points in there
<sheldonh>
deryl: he could just whine less about IPOs on twitter :)
<deryl>
sheldonh: lol. she had surgery on a busted shoulder tip. she ate my couch out of frustration from not being able to walk etc. she might have been hurt but that doesn't kill off the energy buildup. she took it out in chewing everything she laid eyes on
<deryl>
sheldonh: yeah he does dig his own grave in a lot of things. just not all, like some like to insinuate
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<deryl>
anyways, enjoyed the conversation ladies and gents. enjoy! i'm off
<sheldonh>
laters :)
<shevy>
the best thing about DHH is
<shevy>
I don't even know who that is
<shevy>
except that he wrote rails 20 years ago or somethin
<shevy>
g
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<fragrant>
Hi, is there any good active ruby forum to ask questions?
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<Tasser>
fragrant, stackoverflow
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<fragrant>
No stackoverflow.
<fragrant>
forum
<Tasser>
fragrant, stackoverflow is a forum
<Tasser>
fragrant, it's got a bit of game mechanics on top of it, but that's it
<fragrant>
I can't ask more than 6 question in stackoverflow.
<shevy>
fragrant why do you dispute this. I answered you on #ruby !
<Tasser>
fragrant, huh?
<Tasser>
fragrant, why not?
<fragrant>
Tasser: I don't know why can't i ask more than 6 questions in a day?
<injekt>
why dont you ask on irc?
<injekt>
there's no limit here
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<fragrant>
irc is not forum
<Tasser>
fragrant, you want questions answered, so what's your problem?
<fragrant>
You can't ask about code here and all text are not saved for the rest of your life
<Tasser>
fragrant, read the topic
<injekt>
fragrant: use a pastie, and yes they do
<injekt>
and of course you can ask about code here
<fragrant>
You can't save the answers
<injekt>
yes
<injekt>
yes you can
<Tasser>
yes, cou can.
<fragrant>
Where would those answers be saved?
<injekt>
where do you want them saved?
<spinagon>
I save them on HDD and in google docs
<injekt>
^ great answer
<Tasser>
I ask them again ;-)
<fragrant>
In a forum your answers will be saved forever, if you log-in you can get those as subscribed thread.
<samuelkadolph>
fragrant: If you are posting more than 6 questions a day, you will probably piss of forum users more than IRC users.
<injekt>
fragrant: the fact that you think forum answers will be saved forever is laughable
<injekt>
save the answers yourself, that's the only way you know they'll be saved forever
<fragrant>
injekt: I mean, you can get those answer in future
<injekt>
you're already wasting time
<samuelkadolph>
Nothing is stored forever if you want to be technical
<fragrant>
You don't have to save answers manually somewhere
<injekt>
fragrant: what happens if you're offline, or the site goes down?
<injekt>
then you're stuck, forever
<shevy>
I wonder how you guys have so much energy
<samuelkadolph>
fragrant: Get an irc client that logs
<spinagon>
6 questions a day is a bit
<spinagon>
over the top
<samuelkadolph>
Not for IRC
<injekt>
I disagree :)
<spinagon>
sure
<spinagon>
but for forum
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<spinagon>
it's bordering on spam
<injekt>
I think it's great fragrant wants to ask so many questions, but on a forum it's a bad idea
<samuelkadolph>
Especially if the only justification is that they save the answers for you
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<shevy>
I thought you want a forum
<shevy>
just use it as a forum
<fragrant>
What's the problem with mailing list?
<fragrant>
molgrew: I got a mail, but can't understand how to confirm it
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<molgrew>
why, what does it say?
<fragrant>
molgrew: Should i reply this mail with a empty subject and body = confirm 23523543 fragrant fragrant=
<shevy>
I dunno if there is a problem. I myself don't use mailing lists. I can't keep up with the amount of noise on mailing lists in general. A forum seems much easier going.
<burgestrand>
fragrant: have you tried it?
<fragrant>
Yes,
<fragrant>
But now what to do? I didn't get any new mail now.
<burgestrand>
Not sure if you get confirmation on the Ruby ML; I’d probably try signing up again.
<burgestrand>
Just to make sure, you know.
<fragrant>
Or should the body contain confirm 200102.. Joseph Smith
<burgestrand>
I’ve unsubscribed and subscribed myself from that list about four times and I still don’t remember how. :p
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<fragrant>
What to do now?
<apeiros_>
party! isn't that always what's to do…?
<fragrant>
How would i know that i'm confirmed?
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<burgestrand>
fragrant: you could send a mail to the mailing list introducing yourself and see if you get any answers back :)
<burgestrand>
hehe
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<burgestrand>
and if you don’t you can keep subscribing and introducing yourself until people go nuts
<fragrant>
Now i got a mail, Subscribe with confirmation error (ruby-talk ML)
<fragrant>
Hi, I am the fml mailing list manager for <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>.
<fragrant>
I encounter a syntax error. The correct syntax is
<fragrant>
confirm PASSWORD fragrant fragrant=
<fragrant>
in the mail body.
<fragrant>
The address to send it back is <ruby-talk-ctl@ruby-lang.org>.
<fragrant>
sorry
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<shevy>
from forum to mailing list
<shevy>
evolution can work backwards
<shevy>
we humans once were divine beings of total light
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<fragrant>
What will be the body of the reply mail
<fragrant>
I don't want to register from forum
<shevy>
I think you should use IRC
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<fragrant>
This is the mail i got, http://bpaste.net/show/21064/ , can anyone tell how to confirm mailing list subscribe?
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<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
google for "let it snow"
<shevy>
my search results are snowing!
<fragrant>
I registered with firstname fragrant fragrant but in ruby-forum i see the name is different, how can i set the name to 'fragrant' ?
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<zumbi_>
hello again! how do you run an isolated test from ruby testsuite?
<RickHull>
using Test::Unit ?
<zumbi_>
if I do, make test-all, one of the tests segfaults
<RickHull>
ah, testing the ruby interpreter itself?
<zumbi_>
I am trying to run just that one test, but I am not sure if it would be enough by defining TESTS variable
<zumbi_>
RickHull: yes, on ruby interepreter testsuite
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<yorickpeterse>
Yes
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<shevy>
ok thanks, I rarely trust my brain these days
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<thepugautomatic>
Maybe more regexp than Ruby as such, but: just noticed that e.g. "1 a b".scan(/[:alpha:]/) will work but only finds the first alpha. If you use \s, it finds all whitespace, not just the first. Any ideas why? Fuller example at https://gist.github.com/1499164
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<RickHull>
thepugautomatic: that's how regex works
<RickHull>
er, scan, hmm
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<RickHull>
your regex is specifying: match a single character
<RickHull>
i agree, your gist does seem odd
<RickHull>
i forget how scan works, gotta run ;)
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<thepugautomatic>
:D Nice exit.
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<looopy_>
in regards to iterating through hashes and displaying/processing the values is there anything wrong with colors.values.each do |x| puts x end ?
<looopy_>
that seems to work fine though the book i'm reading shows colors.keys.each do |x| puts colors[x] end
<looopy_>
both work fine...i'm just wondering if there's some sort of 'gotcha' or issue that may come up when using the hash.values
<postmodern>
lazyirc, is there a ruby library that can wrap a nested Hashes/Arrays in a ActiveRecord like object?
<lianj>
or colors.each{|key,value| p value }
<postmodern>
so one could query/sort the nested data
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<drbrain>
lianj: colors.each { |k,v| p v } == colors.each_value { |v| p v }
<lianj>
or that :)
<drbrain>
each_value is roughly each do |_, v| yield v end
* drbrain
hand waves past Enumerator
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<drbrain>
postmodern: like Enumerable?
<postmodern>
drbrain, no, like query paths
<andrewvos>
mongo?
<postmodern>
a ruby library :)
<andrewvos>
mongo_mapper?
<postmodern>
not a database
<andrewvos>
methods?
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<andrewvos>
postmodern: Not really sure what you want
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