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<zenspider>
wmoxam: what'd I miss?
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<zenspider>
br1an: you might want to look at reek
<br1an>
oddmunds: zenspider thanks! in another chat, but will look at b oth of those...
<br1an>
appreciate it, and may be back in a few to discuss more if you're both still here!
<oddmunds>
we're always here because we are not people
<zenspider>
speak for yourself... I'm a people
<lake>
can anyone here point me in a direction for doing TDD with qt/ruby via qtbindings?
<lake>
i wasn't able to find any good examples on teh githubz
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<rue>
zenspider: You missed, apparently, someone trolling #ruby
<oddmunds>
i rushed to #ruby to see the trolling, but i think i missed it too.
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<rue>
Sad
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<wmoxam>
zenspider: a flood
<wmoxam>
:p
<wmoxam>
zenspider: placker@182.7.10.55, I think he was just kicked, not banned
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<rippa>
soo
<rue>
Harasoo
<rippa>
jruby is now 3 times faster?
<rippa>
Compared to JRuby on Java 6, JRuby on Java 7 without invokedynamic is around 25% faster, and JRuby with invokedynamic is nearly 3 times faster.
<rue>
Weeell, on *certain* benches
<rue>
It's not 3x across the board. I think the figures quoted were something like 5-10% from JVM6->7 alone though
<josh9>
and maybe it's about time to read his 'Exceptional Ruby'
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<josh9>
ok. here is the TLDR of that post: begin/raise/rescue is used for errors. catch/throw is used for terminating the execution when there is no more work to be done (nested loops is a good usecase).
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<shevy>
josh9 hmm... but can't you do the same as catch throw does by using begin/rescue/raise/ensure ?
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<darix>
shevy: i think the catch values over multiple loops/function calls might be tough with begin/rescue/raise/ensure
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<rue>
catch/throw does make some things easier
<rue>
And strictly speaking, error handling should be just that, not flow control
<rue>
But all that said, josh9, catch/throw should be used extremely judiciously
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<imperator2>
a.slice('1'.to_sym) => TypeError
<imperator2>
a.slice!('1'.to_sym) => nil
<imperator2>
wtf?
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<rue>
imperator2: Not in .3
<imperator2>
rue, what?
<rue>
It's a TypeError in both cases in 1.9.3
<rippa>
yes
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<imperator2>
oic, thanks
<rue>
An odd error, though
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<Jake232>
I'm just looking an Rubinius, and wondering
<Jake232>
What disadvantages does it have to MRI?
<Jake232>
I can only find advntages
<Jake232>
Besides a very small amount of gems being incompatible.
<nuclearsandwich>
Jake232: Ruby 1.9 support isn't there yet.
<nuclearsandwich>
and it still has odd performance characteristics in some places MRI doesn't.
<rippa>
and doesn't work on wondows
<nuclearsandwich>
rippa: that's okay, neither do I. :D
<nuclearsandwich>
But yeah, Windows support dropped behind and I hope they pick it up again.
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<Jake232_>
As per usual, ask a question
<Jake232_>
and my internet drops off
<Jake232>
nuclearsandwich: I'm new to Ruby, but wasn't the actual main difference between 1.8 and 1.9
<Jake232>
a speed increase?
<Jake232>
And in which case, Rubinus would out-perform anyway
<nuclearsandwich>
Yes and No.
<nuclearsandwich>
Ruby 1.9 introduces new syntax for a number of things
<nuclearsandwich>
changes the standard library some
<nuclearsandwich>
and adds Encodings to String
<Jake232>
Hmm
<nuclearsandwich>
which is one of the biggest changes the Rubinius team still has to implement.
<nuclearsandwich>
petercooper has a Ruby 1.9 walkthrough
<nuclearsandwich>
that goes through all the differences in detail.
<nuclearsandwich>
Jake232: alas, it is a video. And I believe it costs money.
<Jake232>
Just noticed that
<Jake232>
May not be worth it for me haha, seeing as though I never even learnt Ruby 1.8
<nuclearsandwich>
Not sure how much, I got it as the coda to his Ruby Reloaded course.
<Jake232>
1.9 was out when I started.
<nuclearsandwich>
Probably not at this time.
<nuclearsandwich>
I actually found it really useful because I had to go back and update a 1.8 app. I was able to apply the walkthrough in reverse essentially.
<Jake232>
I would imagine there werent all that many changes though
<nuclearsandwich>
When I started out 1.8.7 was still recommended and 1.9.1 was causing segfaults in Rails. It was jolly good fun.
<Jake232>
new functions will have been added for convinience etc
<Jake232>
But I'd imagine 95%+ is exactly the same as it was, but maybe I'm wrong ;)
<manveru>
finally! the next generation is here :D
<nuclearsandwich>
sure, 95% is probably the same
<nuclearsandwich>
but the corner-case semantics have all been tweaked.
<nuclearsandwich>
the behavior of Proc.new, proc, and lambda...
<Mon_Ouie>
The changes to the String class are far from corner-cases I think
<nuclearsandwich>
Mon_Ouie: I mentioned the total changes Encodings brought above. Sorry.
<nuclearsandwich>
but those changes are also pretty transparent if you're new to Ruby entirely.
<nuclearsandwich>
Encodings haven't really bit me in the face yet. Then again... any place they might've, benevolent library maintainers have kindly updated their work for me. So I'm probably insulated.
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<infid>
if jruby is faster than ruby and gives you more libraries and interoperability to other languages, is there any real good reason to not be using it?
<heftig>
starts much slower
<heftig>
higher memory usage
<robgleeson>
if you need Kernel#fork, ObjectSpace.each_object, …
<robgleeson>
but yeah, JRuby is solid, and a good choice if you don't have dependencies on those two things.
<shevy>
infid it requires java too as far as I know
<heftig>
jruby is ruby for java, I wouldn't use it as a replacement for cruby
<bougyman>
depends on the usage.
<robgleeson>
it's not just that
<robgleeson>
it's Ruby on the JVM
<bougyman>
for a long-running process, jruby can have advantages over cruby
<manveru>
if you c extentions
<nuclearsandwich>
JRuby also has real threads, which if you have naive concurrency may cause terrible things to happen to you.
<manveru>
*if you use c extensions
<robgleeson>
manveru: hey, they have C API support now :p
<robgleeson>
not sure how good it is, though
<shevy>
C API support?
<Mon_Ouie>
Worked well enough for me
<manveru>
heh
<bougyman>
is jruby fully 1.9 yet?
<Jake232>
nuclearsandwich: But if you use it correctly, it can be great
<Jake232>
:)
<nuclearsandwich>
Exactly
<manveru>
bougyman: no
<bougyman>
well there's the killer, then.
<shevy>
rubinius ain't either!
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<manveru>
bougyman: actually, it is much better now
<manveru>
i haven't tested 1.6.5 yet
<Jake232>
I suppose it depends whether your primary concern is easy of use / quick development time
<Jake232>
or speed.
<shevy>
ruby & speed? :D
<Jake232>
Although if speed is a major concern, you probably wouldn't be using Ruby
<bougyman>
depends.
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<shevy>
haven't you heard of "The Ruby Tribute Minute" before
<bougyman>
speed, to me, includes development time.
<bougyman>
how quick to get from concept to product. runtime can always be optimized after that.
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<Jake232>
bougyman: It can, but using Ruby limits how much difference optimization makes.
<bougyman>
Jake232: i haven't found that to be much of a factor in data-heavy applications.
<bougyman>
the data source is generally the bottleneck, there.
<Jake232>
I've only ever developed in "slow" langauges anyway, PHP, Python and Ruby
<Jake232>
So Ruby doesn't seem slow to me at all ;)
<infid>
Jake232: then you must have only ever been using one type of hardware, because hardware makes all the difference on languages like those
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<sh1nji>
hi, im a fairly new web developer working with a ruby based app using postgresql, when I try to have it access the db, do a query to pull a specific attribute for a table, and then display it in a haml page...unfortunately when i do all that, it doesn't display the number value, instead its a "#"
<manveru>
did you inspect the source?
<manveru>
the html source ,that is
<sh1nji>
hmm
<sh1nji>
let me see
<bougyman>
you probably have an object.
<bougyman>
what db layer are you using, and what web publishing method?
<Jake232>
infid: hardware makes a difference with every language doesn't it?
<Jake232>
However I think no matter what hardware you were running, you'd have a pretty good arguement stating that ruby was relatively "slow".
<sh1nji>
i looked at the source and didn't see anything other than just "#"
<Jake232>
But it's still more than fast enough for most tasks.
<Jake232>
sh1nji: What are you trying to display? As bougyman says, you're likely trying to output the whole object
<sh1nji>
im using postgresql
<Jake232>
rather than a attribute of it
<bougyman>
sh1nji: can you show us your source you're using for this?
<sh1nji>
an attribute from a table
<infid>
Jake232: well, you'd have a weak argument saying it's "slow" without saying what it's slow at, it's fast with development time. But I know what you meant
<sh1nji>
let me get the source
<manveru>
there are lots of bounds... if you happen to be I/O bound, a better language won't help much
<Jake232>
infid: Most dynamic languages are awesome for development time, they do pretty much everything which could be classed as low-level for you
<infid>
in my view, developer time is part of execution performance since if i could have ran my ruby program 5000 times before you finished even developing your C app, I win (for now, or maybe forever if launch date was the most important factor)
<Jake232>
But I think that's most probably why they are slow.
<infid>
Jake232: yeah but i could equally say that dynamic languages suck because there's no type checking to help prevent bugs
<Jake232>
The one thing I've noticed with Ruby, that seems to suck
<Jake232>
is the fact the GUI's seem to not be Ruby's thing
<infid>
there are some hybrid languages
<Jake232>
they all seem to suck
<Jake232>
and have problems
<manveru>
hehe
<manveru>
tk ftw
<infid>
i wish there was a one-true-web language. Funny thing is, flash was that and we killed it
<infid>
now we're back to needing 3-5 languages to set up a web page
<infid>
well java applets were that even better and we killed those too
<manveru>
you can do it with one if you use lisp or smalltalk :)
<Mon_Ouie>
Web pages that used flash for all the content always sucked
<Jake232>
Flash sucks
<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
it depends
<infid>
i'm not saying it was done right, just that it was moving toward uniformity
<bougyman>
infid: urweb accomplishes that.
<shevy>
I say 80% suck not 100%
<bougyman>
you write everything in ML
<Jake232>
Well, it has it's purpose, but not for the whole site.
<bougyman>
it compiles the js and manages longpoll/request-cycles, all that.
<shevy>
infid - problem is, as with everything, things won't get simpler and easier. there will be more and more languages rather than just one to describe it all
<infid>
bougyman: apparently not if i've never heard of it and i imagine most people haven't :p
<Jake232>
Like now, people are starting to develop games etc, in HTML 5 / JS, and Flash can achieve the same thing, if not better.
<bougyman>
infid: just because you haven't heard of it doesn't make it so.
<shevy>
damn javascript
<rue>
Lol Flash
<Jake232>
I don't think Flash should be forgotten and avoided, it was just getting used for the wrong purpose.
<bougyman>
infid: it does just that, in fact.
<rue>
Jake232: Yes, the internet
<infid>
bougyman: well hopefully it'll catch on then
<rue>
Flash is perfectly fine in the privacy of your own home
<bougyman>
infid: doesn't mean I'd want to use it :)
<manveru>
anything that can be, will be abused :)
<shevy>
yeah
<bougyman>
it looks good on you, though :)
<rippa>
flash is widely used in games
<shevy>
give someone a feature and they will suddenly rip your whole leg out of you
<rippa>
for interface
<rippa>
via Scaleform
<shevy>
I am playing some flash browsergames
<infid>
abuse is a negative way of saying "pushing to its limits" :p
<shevy>
it's so lala, medium fun...
<rippa>
for example in Skyrim interface is in Flash
<Jake232>
Still need to purchase Skyrim.
<shevy>
when flash was new, I was a big fan. I even used macromedia flash for a while to create small stuppid flash things... a moving ball that kinda exploded in red after a while
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<shevy>
and a mouse that chased after cheese
<manveru>
i used swich to make an awesome flash intro for my page in 2002 or so... it ate your cpu for breakfast :)
<Jake232>
I once made a flash game, for a local university
<manveru>
*swish
<infid>
i was big on flash in those days too, treated javascript with the same contempt that i know treat flash and adore javascript
<Jake232>
It sucked hard, but they didn't pay for it, so what can they expect
<Jake232>
;)
<infid>
what a funny concept that happened back then, that people believed that javascript would be disabled most of the time yet flash would run everywhere
<shevy>
if I could just use ruby to create flash games
<Spooner>
I use Ruby to make Flash-quality games. Nearly works :D
<rue>
Wasn't there a Ruby->Flash bridge?
<shevy>
hehe Spooner
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<Spooner>
I'm wondering if something like NaCl is the answer, because I am getting annoyed with all the cross-platform woes and making people download :(
<Jake232>
Well, I need food, so I shall return later!
<Jake232>
Cya
<infid>
i'm glad that there's finally a new huge platform to make a living developing for than the crummy web: mobile phones. I just wish it wasn't even less fun to develop for, ugh.
<infid>
where consumers want to go often seems to not be where people who enjoy programming also want to go
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* jaimef
hunts for a way to process multiline record output.
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<rue>
Be vewy vewy qwiet
<jaimef>
:P
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<jaimef>
multiline wecords, not wabbits
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<chris2>
is nathaniel talbott here?
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<aarkerio>
hi! I am a PHP developer trying to learn Ruby,
<aarkerio>
what is the equivalent in ruby to: die(var_dump($foo_hash));
<aarkerio>
I mean to debug a hash or an array
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<imperator>
puts hash.inspect
<imperator>
or: p hash for the short version
<aarkerio>
thanks!
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<aarkerio>
using:
<aarkerio>
{:first=>'John', :middle=>'M.', :last=>'Smith'}.each do |g| p 'String 1 ' + ' String 2'+" #{g} " end
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<aarkerio>
"String 1 String 2 middleM. "
<aarkerio>
how can I puts only the value and not the key?
<aarkerio>
I mean:
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<aarkerio>
"String 1 String 2 M. "
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<any-key>
h.values?
<any-key>
where h is your hash
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<aarkerio>
puts => ["M.", "Smith", "John"]
<aarkerio>
but not
<aarkerio>
"String 1 String 2 M. "
<aarkerio>
and so
<any-key>
I'm confused.
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<aarkerio>
my hash is : {:first=>'John', :middle=>'M.', :last=>'Smith'}
<aarkerio>
I want to print "first is John"
<any-key>
ah
<any-key>
h.each { |k,v| puts "#{k.to_s} is #{v}" }
<aarkerio>
perfect!!
<aarkerio>
thanks
<any-key>
forget the .to_s
<any-key>
you don't need it
<aarkerio>
BT: h.each { |k,v| puts "#{k.to_s} is #{v}" }
<aarkerio>
and
<aarkerio>
h.each do |k,v| puts "#{k.to_s} is #{v}" end
<aarkerio>
are the same thing right?
<any-key>
yes
<any-key>
both are blocks
<aarkerio>
cool
<Mon_Ouie>
{ … } and do … end have different precedence
<Mon_Ouie>
foo bar { block_1 } do block_2 end # block_1 is passed to bar, block_2 is passed to foo
<aarkerio>
mmm, let me google for a tutorial, thanks pals!
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<aarkerio>
{:first=>'John', :middle=>'M.', :last=>'Smith'}.each do |x g| p 'String 1 ' + ' String 2'+" #{g}" end
<aarkerio>
is correct
<aarkerio>
I think each is a method
<any-key>
aarkerio: you need a comma between x and g
<any-key>
and you can pass in a proc as an argument, but you're using a block which is not the same thing
<burgestrand>
aarkerio: blocks are passed outside the argument list
<burgestrand>
aarkerio: thingy.each() do |*args| end
<andrewhl>
is there a method for finding the highest number in a hash?
<aarkerio>
mmm, I will need read the ruby API
<aarkerio>
thanks again
<burgestrand>
aarkerio: unless you’re sending in an object you can convert into a proc (and in effect also a block), in which case you can do thingy.each(&object_responding_to_to_proc)
<andrewhl>
or an array
<burgestrand>
andrewhl: array.max
<andrewhl>
thanks
<shevy>
array.to_infinity
<shevy>
array.to_infinity!!!!
<shevy>
AND BEYOND
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<shevy>
<OmniMancer> python works on haiku
<shevy>
:(
<shevy>
why ruby does not work!
<shevy>
WHY!
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<zenspider>
haiku meaning beos?
<zenspider>
shevy: ^
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<Jake232>
Seems quiet in here tonight
<zenspider>
tonight?!? that's because it is daytime!
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<zenspider>
I can almost guarantee that gsub! is 80% of your problem
<zenspider>
doesn't even make sense in some of the places you're using it
<zenspider>
80+%
<JosephRuby>
zenspider: ty for the input, will do it in strscan again gotta run fer now.
<yxhuvud>
the loop over the input seems very suspekt as well. iterate over it, once.
<JosephRuby>
back tomorrow
<zenspider>
yxhuvud: he should get that by switching to strscanner
<yxhuvud>
true
<zenspider>
I just rebuilt my emacs IN my emacs process... um. I should prolly restart.
<zenspider>
yay
<shevy>
zenspider yeah, the "successor" to BeOS
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<zenspider>
JosephRuby: you spend 12.38% of your time in gsub! alone
<Jake232>
Whats the best way for me to creat my own client facing "markup language", and then parse it.
<Jake232>
eg:
<zenspider>
by reusing someone else's
<shevy>
hehe
<Jake232>
I want them to be able to enter :video(#http://youtube.com/example), and then parse it to a actual video
<Jake232>
is regex too slow?
<Jake232>
zenspider: Such as? ;)
<Jake232>
I just want it to have basic ways, for them to add videos, and images
<Jake232>
maybe a easy hyperlink method.
<zenspider>
such as using markdown instead of making yet another
<zenspider>
but... if you were to create your own. design a grammar for it, write a parser, generate an AST, and write visitors that walk the AST and translate it to other formats
<zenspider>
that's the BEST way... which is what you asked for
<zenspider>
the worst way is to use regexps
<Jake232>
I'm guessing I can't do that, seeing as though I don't even know what AST is.
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<zenspider>
JosephRuby: I'm already at 55% just by doing what I said last week: use the right tool for the job. You're not using hashes as hashes... at all.
<JosephRuby>
zenspider: oyi, ty greatly for looking at the code, could I ask you to leave comments on either gist or SO? my coding time for today is over, I won't have time to really look at what you are suggesting right now.
<zenspider>
I'm not sure I can fit any more comments into this overly commented code
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* jaimef
ponders how to test for [nil]
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<zenspider>
jaimef: what's to ponder?
<zenspider>
22% of the original
<zenspider>
and I still haven't converted to strscanner
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