<kyak>
xiangfu: btw, it's not a good idea to put downloaded patches in PATCH_DIR.. First of all, these new files will appear in git status, and then it will trigger compilation every time you run make, because the timestamp of dir will be updated
<tuxbrain>
xianfu, updated , not late just in time :) thanks a lot (again)
<tuxbrain>
writting idea to have logged somewhere: NanoNote with usb-mass-storage option can be used as AVR flash loader copying the hex file to a determinated folder
<tuxbrain>
I have chose usb-mass-storage due then it can be also used on windows
<tuxbrain>
see you later guys
<tuxbrain>
/nick tuxbrain_away
<zear>
hey guys
<kyak>
hi zear
<zear>
i haven't been following the nn scene for a longer time, and now finally checked the mailinglist (just to see 700 new threads :D)
<zear>
but what interested me the most among the mails is the UBB
<zear>
i cna't seem to find an info about it's price, so does anybody here know how much does it cost?
<zear>
*can't
<kyak>
you can check it on tuxbrain's site
<zear>
have problems accessing his webpage with midori browser
<zear>
it keeps loading over and over again, resulting in constant blinking of the page content
<kyak>
you have two choices: choose another site ot another browser :)
<zear>
yeah, firefox loaded it fine
<kyak>
btw, since you've been out of the loop for some time, you might want to check the latest image, too :)
<tuxbrain>
hi zear :)
<zear>
hey tuxbrain ;)
<zear>
i might be interested in the UBB
<zear>
not like i'd have any use of that (i can't solder), but it's simply very interesting
<tuxbrain>
how many? :P
<zear>
i'd probably say 2, so i could technically pair two devices with 8:10 slot in a sort of a link cable
<tuxbrain>
why you can't solder? If I can anyone can , believe me
<zear>
i have never done that, i simply know nothing about hardware soldering
<tuxbrain>
ok I will try to accelerate the editing on the howto I made the cable
<zear>
but the idea of a "bare" 8:10 pcb you can do anything with is really great
<tuxbrain>
is very very easy
<zear>
tuxbrain, so i understand you could wire two UBBs together to form a link cable?
<zear>
so when you put each of them to separate nanonotes, the nns would be able to talk to each other? (at least if software is made for it)
<tuxbrain>
even more easy if you pretend to solder two ubbs, if you wish I can made it for you , just especify in the coments of the order to remaind me to do so
<zear>
ah, ok
<tuxbrain>
one should be the SPI master and the other SPI slave, but yes in theory is totally posible unless wpwrak says the contrary,
<zear>
well, i haven't decided yet if i want to order UBBs, but it really sounds very very cool
<zear>
and i probably will :)
<zear>
tuxbrain, and i understand UBB can work in any device with 8:10 port?
<zear>
like let's say a Dingoo A320? :)
<tuxbrain>
meanwhile you were able to deatach the mmc module from the gpios and access the gpios... yes
<zear>
hmm.. so i have to make some changes to the 8:10 socket in order for UBB to work?
<tuxbrain>
I don't think so, is matter of software
<zear>
ok, great, because i didn't understand what you said about detaching  the mmc module from gpios
<tuxbrain>
kernel module
<zear>
ah
<zear>
ok, so basically connecting two UBBs together will work as a link cable
<zear>
this might be a very good news for Dingoo A320 owners
<zear>
because previously we had no way to connect two dingoos for multiplayer games, other than via usb networking and PC host in the middle
<tuxbrain>
this is what make the trick on NN
<zear>
and UBB is cheap enough that this could be worth buying
<zear>
we'd just have to get linux run off NAND and not the SD card like it does currently ;D
<tuxbrain>
yep :)
<zear>
tuxbrain, so what would be the costs of ordering two UBBs already soldered together with a cable?
<zear>
i'd need an approx. price, so i can discuss about it in the dingoo scene
<tuxbrain>
for you same as 2 usb,  for others if I had to solder them add 15¬ for the manipulation, but really is very easy to solder them
<tuxbrain>
usb->UBB
<zear>
ok, so ~25EUR
<zear>
+ shipment
<tuxbrain>
yes
<wpwrak>
zear: you really ought to learn how to solder :) a lot of people think it's difficult, but it isn't. just needs a little practice.
<tuxbrain>
of course if there is enough demand >100 I can try to industrialize the process an prices can go down,
<zear>
wpwrak, well, it's not about soldering itself, it's about understanding electronics
<tuxbrain>
? in UBB there is no electronics :)
<wpwrak>
zear: that takes a bit more time :)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: hah, and i thought you were just selling a transmission line ;-)
<zear>
tuxbrain, i know, but i'm talking about soldering stuff in general
<zear>
although i guess that wrongly soldering two cables could toast the UBB and NN :D
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (spi) yes, you could do that. just have to make sure the ben-slave is fast enough to keep up. it's a bit like the soft-uart problem
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: in general, ben sucks as a slave. it's meant to be a master :)
<tuxbrain>
hehehe
<tuxbrain>
born to rule!
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: you could of course devise a timing-tolerant protocol that acknowledges each clock change. maybe send > 1 bit at a time, while you're at it
<zear>
wpwrak, it if's meant to be a master, why doesn't it have a usb host? ;D
<wpwrak>
zear: ben seems to be pretty solid when it comes to doing bad things to it
<wpwrak>
zear: oh, it does have a usb host. that host is only a little shy ;-)
<tuxbrain>
yeah if he don't like what you put it is port it just get angry and shutsdown.... Ben NanoNote is a female! (omg)
<tuxbrain>
then he->she
<wpwrak>
zear: the problem with high-speed communication over ubb is that you have to bit-bang. so things can be quite slow. and if you have to respond to anything, then you need to keep the timing compatible, which can mean low frequency and/or cpu-intensive polling
<kyak>
i've just ordered the second Ben. I think i'm about to host a gay party
<wpwrak>
zear: but if it's for things like occasional small synchronization messages, that could work quite wll
<wpwrak>
;-))
<zear>
wpwrak, ouch, i was thinking more of stable multiplayer connection for games
<wpwrak>
zear: games may not need to exchange a lot of data
<wpwrak>
zear: but you'll have to experiment. think of a suitable protocol, etc.
<zear>
well, i was thinking of regular TCP/IP without any modification to the existing code of the games
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (timing-free protocol) e.g, MCLK/SCLK: master can only change its clock when the MCLK == SCLK. so the slave has to ack each clock change. that way, if the slave is slow, the master will not overrun it.
<wpwrak>
zear: tcp/ip doesn't add a lot of overhead. you'll have to see if this is good enough or not
<wpwrak>
zear: in any case, you'll need to write something that transports IP over your cable
<zear>
so basically, it i wanted higher transfer, it would be more cpu intensive?
<wpwrak>
zear: yes. there's no SPI/UART/etc. hardware to help you
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: what transfer ratio you stimate with that mclk==sclk technique
<wpwrak>
zear: what you have is the MMC/SD/SDIO hw engine, but that one works only on one end (master only)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: hmm. depends a bit on how much cpu time you want to burn. if you have an interrupt to catch an async start and then busy loop in the data phase, it could be reasonably fast. maybe 0.5-1 Mcycles/s
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: but hey, you have all the UBBs in the world and you have cables. you can just make one and try it ;-)
<tuxbrain>
I'm only lacking knowlege and time :)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: can't help with the time. but that's how you build knowledge :)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: ben as master, mmmm, then comm with arduino on the run would be more dificult as expected... all example codes I found the Arduino considers it self master too..
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: you may have to be a bit creative :) to use the avr as slave, you need access to its nSS line
<tuxbrain>
so I have to find a way to make the atmega328 behave as SPI slave, when not in flashing mode... yuhuu!  more sleepless ours of fun reading strange lenguage called C
<tuxbrain>
ours -> hours
<tuxbrain>
hours->days->weeks->months
<tuxbrain>
WTF is nSS line and where is it?.... bwaaaaaa ,sniff sniff the joy and proud of the last achivement to the toilet in front of again of a mindles junk of acronyms
<tuxbrain>
as wolfspraul say , focus!,
<tuxbrain>
first solving the only chip avrdude problem
<tuxbrain>
then SPI comm
<tuxbrain>
well better said first annoy the Arduino community to aknoledge them than the IT powder box can now also flash his beloved board
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (nss) slave select. unfortunately, the avr spi engine requires that signal to be controlled by the master
<wpwrak>
(for synchronization)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: I will understand what you have said in a couple of weeks :P
<kyak>
tuxbrain: most of the time i talk to wpwrak i have the same feeling :) He must be a man from the future!
<wpwrak>
;-))
<kyak>
ok, one more join and jekhor is a champion :)
<kyak>
jekhor: congratulations! :)
<Jay7>
hehe
<Jay7>
my ISP is helping me to move up
<kyak>
Jay7: your internet is 9th worst, too ;)
<Jay7>
kyak: yeah :)
<panda|x201>
shout, shout, let it all out
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: (flashing with bootloader) I saw that Arduino bootloaders comes with the blink led as default when you flashit, the trick to include bootloader on flashing will not be to compile the bootloader with the intenden program also in and generate a unic hex file with both?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: you could do this, yes
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: avr/boot.h even has a bootloader linker section. unfortunately, avrdude can't merge things nicely, so you have to prepare it all in the hex file
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: when flashing a bootloader, "normal" avrdude will also flash all the kilobytes of 0xff bytes below.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: but if you have my latest version, it just jumps over that :)
<tuxbrain>
ok see you later guys
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: (avrdude) do you really need -C /etc/avrdude.conf ? that should be the default
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: also, the -F is a bit scary. if you have any connection problem, you'll get an ID mismatch. with -F, it probably tries to go ahead anyway.
<wpwrak>
seems that the internet in minsk is a bit on the crappy side :)
<jekhor>
:((
<jekhor>
We hate our network administrator already :)
<kyak>
that is, Lukhashenko? :)
<jow_laptop>
:D
<jow_laptop>
don't think the old man has any clue about internet
<kyak>
jow_laptop: the Internet is government monopoly
<jow_laptop>
kyak: I know
<kyak>
so he knows exactly what is Internet, how it can be used, and how it must be controlled
<tuxbrain_away>
wpwrak: removed -F option, the -C will not hurt so I will maintain it.