<viric> Hallo
<viric> How many megabytes of free memory for user processes you can achieve in your nanonotes?
<kyak> with swap enabled, more than necessary
<kyak> by default, it occupies 12-15 Mb of RAM if i'm not mistaken
<viric> the kernel you mean?
<viric> With few programs running (ssh + bash + syslogd), I get 12MB used
<viric> I don't have swap enabled
<viric> I did not think of enabling swap... do many people enable some swap in the nanonote?
<kyak> i do, i don't know about others
<viric> tuxbrain: can you paste an .asoundrc with softvol, sisplau? :)
<viric> kyak: ah ok. swap on a file, on a mtd block device, on a sd card?
<kyak> on sd card
<kyak> the same partition i use for swap for jlime
<kyak> kind of handy
<viric> I don't know jlime
<viric> Does the nanonote have suspend-to-ram working?
<kyak> don't know.. do you need it?
<viric> I don't know :)
<viric> It's always something welcomed, isn't it?
<viric> for swap, I thought, it would help not writing and writing it again at every boot
<jyf1987> hi all
<jyf1987> just bought a nanonote
<viric> hi
<jyf1987> and dont know how to open application
<viric> are you proficient on Linux?
<viric> GNU systems in general
<jyf1987> i am now under linux
<viric> ok
<jyf1987> i press enter key on the application,but system took me to setting
<viric> I don't know what software does the nanoboot come with
<viric> the nanonote
<viric> How did you get software into it? You put it?
<kyak> jyf1987: press x
<jyf1987> viric: no its the default app
<viric> I've never seen it
<kyak> jyf1987: read here http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Gmenu2x
<jyf1987> kyak: thank
<kyak> for key bindings
<viric> ah, it's like the menu of a gp2x?
<jyf1987> kyak: so why they bind x for enter?
<kyak> yeah
<viric> ahh
<jyf1987> its cool
<jyf1987> i learnt programming from a e-dictionary with a 6052 chip inside
<jyf1987> and for years i want to have a device like that, now i got it
<viric> :)
<viric> how come you could program that dictionary?
<viric> wasn't it closed?
<jyf1987> so how can i reinstall other linux to it?
<jyf1987> i do not like the default os
<viric> You can flash there an openwrt (the supported OS by qi-hardware I think)
<jyf1987> viric: its closed but it has a basic language for user
<viric> or a Debian lenny
<viric> if you ask google for "debian lenny nanonote" that should point you to the flashing procedure
<jyf1987> and some hacker use 6502 asm for it
<kyak> jyf1987: basically you have three choices: openwrt, debian, jlime
<jyf1987> lenny?
<viric> jyf1987: it's a version of debian I think
<viric> jyf1987: 'lenny' is the equivalent of a version number I imagine
<jyf1987> yesterday i just help my customer to change os from win server 2003 to debian 5
<jyf1987> viric: i know that :]
<viric> ahh
<viric> I'm partially in an attempt to port some other kind of Linux-based OS
<viric> but I still have not achieved anything usable :)
<jyf1987> viric: how about tinycore ?
<viric> I don't know that.
<viric> Hasn't anyone ported Armstrong to it, thought? It looks like a good armstrong target
<jyf1987> viric: you can try it at www.tinycorelinuxx.com
<jyf1987> sorry its  www.tinycorelinux.com
<kyak> viric: what's Armstrong?
<wpwrak> pity that there's no chance for layout changes for the next ben production run. a few "interesting" ios would be easy to recover
<viric> a distribution for small systems
<wpwrak> argh. do no press cursor up and enter if not sure in which window you are :-(
<viric> I've just noticed they say Angstrom where I say Armstrong :D
<kyak> :)
<kyak> yes, there are a lot of small footprint distributions our there
<viric> maybe that works only on Arm systems.
<kyak> i don't see why any of them is worse of better than openwrt
<kyak> at the same time, openwrt works here and now
<jyf1987> kyak: i think what i dislike is not openwrt but the gmenu
<kyak> basically they are all linux kernel + busybox
<jyf1987> and my wireless router is also openwrt :]
<kyak> jyf1987: just disable it
<viric> kyak: openwrt has its limitations
<viric> kyak: which means some lack of flexibility
<jyf1987> how
<kyak> viric: what kidn of limitations?
<viric> say you want a package compiled in another way
<kyak> jyf1987: /etc/init.d/start
<jyf1987> ok will check that
<kyak> viric: so..? feel free to compile it any way you want
<jyf1987> i want to try some other fb based desktop
<kyak> get the toolchain, edit the Makefile.. and so on
<viric> kyak: that build system is not easy to install everywhere
<jyf1987> anyway, what you guys use nanonote for?
<viric> kyak: additionally I like to use latest versions for the toolchain
<kyak> viric: what do you mean "everywhere"? can you build angstrom from under Windows?
<jyf1987> viric: that's the point, so i will choose script programming language for it
<viric> kyak: what I run in the nanonote goes with the latest gcc and glibc. 4.5.1 and 2.11.2.
<viric> kyak: I don't like Angstrom either! :)
<kyak> ah ok. i hope you really profit from the latest gcc :)
<viric> kyak: I think it's easier to get attention from upstream, using the latest versions. I'd feel shame for reporting a bug on gcc 3.x ;)
<viric> well, not for reporting, but for expecting a fix
<viric> kyak: and I assume the latest versions work better.
<viric> kyak: and of course I'm using a system *less painful* than openwrt...
<kyak> yeah.. feel free devoting your time to catching up with the latest versions
<viric> kyak: it's not difficult at all
<kyak> viric: you're talking "secretly"
<viric> kyak: using a capable-enough system. :) I use the nixpkgs cross build system
<kyak> what's "a system" you are using?
<viric> This is what I run to get the latest kernel: nix-build -A linuxPackages_nanonote_jz_2_6_35.kernel.hostDrv nanonote.nix
<viric> This is how I get 'rogue': nix-build -A rogue.hostDrv nanonote.nix
<viric> Do you want to see the 'private' file "nanonote.nix" that defines the system?
<viric> the rest of the files into play are from a normal upstream distribution of packages: nixpkgs   http://nixos.org/nixpkgs/    (not specially coded for the nanonote)
<kyak> does nix-build run everywhere?
<viric> kyak: even cygwin
<viric> kyak: not native win32 though
<viric> kyak: but the cross-build system works only on Linux by now (as far as I have tested. I don't know of anyone that tried to test it in other places)
<viric> kyak: on 'Linux' means i686-linux, x86_64-linux, armv5tel-linux and mips64-linux, regardless of the distribution.
<kyak> so your main point was that openwrt is not flexible
<kyak> at the same time, you just use nix-build to build a pacakge
<kyak> you understand that you don't really need to modify anything
<viric> I'm very used to the 'nix' way of describing how to build something, so I can use the same language for my desktop computers and for the nanonote.
<viric> kyak: do you want to see the description on how to build rogue?
<kyak> so that's just your personal affection then
<kyak> i don't even know what rogue is :)
<viric> A nethack style game :)
<kyak> i personally pretty much got used to the openwrt build system
<tuxbrain> viric: Jlime is an OE based distro as Armstrong
<viric> https://svn.nixos.org/websvn/nix/nixpkgs/trunk/pkgs/games/rogue/default.nix   this natively builds and cross builds
<viric> kyak: Well, you understand the advantages of using *the same system* in your desktop and in the nanonote, right? :)
<kyak> no
<kyak> i don't really need it
<viric> well, for two computers, you have one system *less* to learn.
<kyak> i don't have to "learn" anything
<kyak> you don't have to, with modern linux distros
<viric> ah, it depends on what do you want to achieve
<kyak> they all have prety smart package managers]
<kyak> what do i want for my desktop? click and install, or "single command install"
<viric> kyak: I don't agree. :) Most package managers work as a "list of tarballs to unpack with a list of dependencies on what tarballs to unpack"
<kyak> why would i want it to do anything with Ben?
<viric> kyak: ah, well, I want something more than 'click and install' :)
<kyak> viric: so what?
<kyak> you want to fell "freedom", while you actually don't need it. you want to be "in control", while you actually don't need it
<viric> kyak: some excerpts of what "most package managers" don't have: http://nixos.org/nix/
<kyak> i'm pretty much satisfied with defaults my linux distro provides
<kyak> and so are 95 % of users
<viric> kyak: no problem. I don't mind much about other users. I never came here telling what they have to use. :)
<viric> But I choose open hardware so I can do whatever I want with it; and using the distro I like is one of the freedoms I like enjoying :)
<tuxbrain> viric:regarding rogue on OpenWrt you have the original nethack(ascii) and powder(SDL)
<kyak> agreed
<viric> tuxbrain: this means that rogue is not there ;)
<kyak> get it there
<tuxbrain> beaware on it be resolution proof (320x240)
<kyak> feel "free"
<kyak> viric: you will be very much surprised how openwrt's Makefile is similar to that rogue nix recipy
<viric> kyak: and the possibility to use 'nix' for either the nanonote, the sheevaplug, a full featured KDE desktop, cross-building or not cross-building, with advantages like multiple-versions in the system, rollback, atomic upgrades, ... makes it quite a worth system.
<tuxbrain> I think is the main constrain in order to port grafical software to nanonote, not the distro it self
<tuxbrain> the resolution
<kyak> viric: you should really make you yourself familiar with widely-accepted package managers. Most of them are not that stupid as you imagine
<viric> kyak: I feel that they achieve very little
<viric> kyak: I remember being at fosdem this year, and I went to the debian cross-building meeting. All they had in their list of "Future plans" was in our list of "what we already have"
<kyak> viric: anyway, have you got this NixOs running on Ben?
<viric> And with far less effort than what the debian people are doing.
<viric> kyak: all I'd need to do is write the init script. Cross-building the software works fine. And I've had the nanonote for a week.
<jyf1987> kyak: how can i get console on nanonote? there's 3 application default
<kyak> jyf1987: as you do it on every other linux, ctrl+alt+F1-F5
<viric> kyak: I'm dediating very little time to this... I'm also involved in the Fuloong2F port, and I did the Sheevaplug port too. I'm sure I achieved that with far less effort than other distributions I know fo.
<viric> of
<jyf1987> kyak: oh, forget it
<kyak> viric: have you ported anything to openwrt?
<jyf1987> kyak: i thought gmenu run on fb
<viric> kyak: no. The openwrt build system is hard to install over nixpgks, I think
<jyf1987> i like tty more than gui ,:D
<kyak> that how you can be "sure"? it takes me half-hour to port an average application
<viric> kyak: I have not tried learning OpenWRT because what I do in 'nix' has more far reaching positive consequences than what I could do for openwrt.
<kyak> than you can't compare
<kyak> you just use what you use
<kyak> what you used to :)
<viric> kyak: as all is valid enough for my desktop system, servers, embedded systems, workstations, ...
<kyak> and this is what you dare to call "freedom"
<viric> kyak: do you use OpenWRT in your laptop?
<kyak> no, why would I?
<viric> kyak: learning openwrt gives me little advantages compared to contributing to nix. I use nix everywhere, while you use OpenWRT only on your routers and nanonotes (I guess)
<kyak> i'm very satisfied with my current distro (mandriva), which i've been using for several years so far
<viric> kyak: Why would I spend effort in a system that will make my contributions work only on such a limited set?
<viric> kyak: I already said that I don't care that much on "other users that did not choose nix" ;)
<kyak> i might be not "FSF geek", but who's using NixOS anyways? this is the time i've heard about it
<kyak> *first time
<viric> kyak: it's the main GNU continuous build system: http://www.gnu.org/software/devel.html bottom of the page. For example.
<viric> for example.
<kyak> ah, ok . pretty cool
<kyak> so.. when you actually have it running on Ben, let me know :)
<kyak> i'm willing to try it
<viric> Well, you better try it on a more flexible computer first :)
<viric> If you are used to mandriva, it will have a high step learning curve at the beginning
<viric> And you can be soon disappointed
<kyak> wow, you are so full of stereotypes
<viric> First you have to understand that you want what nix provides over the other package managers. That should give you the 'energy' to do the effort :)
<viric> kyak: Yes ;)
<viric> kyak: Feel free to break them :)
<kyak> can i have nix package manager on a top of any linux distro?
<viric> Yes.
<kyak> or i need to switch to NixOS?
<viric> No, you can use it on linux, BSDs, ...
<kyak> viric: ok, i might have a look
<viric> You can ask for guidance on #nixos if you have questions.
<viric> I know very few users of it, but I don't know of any who used it and then changed to another distro :)
<kyak> viric: i'm definitely not changing distro.. just because it makes no sense
<viric> But I let you know that most users in NixOS come after being disappointed of other package managers, after falling into trouble with them.
<kyak> they are all the _same_
<viric> Mmm I suggest you to read on nixos. It's the only one I found 'different'. I came to it reading the papers: http://www.st.ewi.tudelft.nl/~dolstra/pubs/nixos-jfp-submitted.pdf for example
<viric> Even if you don't switch, you may be interested on "how some people try to do something different"
<kyak> yep, could be an interesting reading :)
<viric> kyak: after reading, I thought "I have to learn how to use this!" :)
<kyak> i just need to get in trouble with my package manager to really start doing something.. i say it not even being afraid to
<kyak> ..to put an evil eye on it
<viric> :)
<viric> in fact the person working on RPM5 has an eye on nix
<viric> mandriva works rpm-based iirc
<kyak> oh, so i might just wait :)
<viric> well, I can't say I've seen anything good from that RPM5. :)
<viric> time will say.
<viric> do you use only x86 PCs and the nanonote? or more platforms?
<kyak> viric: only x86 and the Ben
<kristianpaul> xiangfu: there?
<xiangfu> kristianpaul: yes
<kristianpaul> i'm looking for openwrt-xburst-uImage.bin after openwrt compiles with make
<kristianpaul> i dont find it :/
<kristianpaul> ah got it
<kristianpaul> nv
<kristianpaul> sorry xiangfu :)
<kristianpaul> is in bin/
<xiangfu> kristianpaul:  bin/xburst/
<kristianpaul> yeah
<xiangfu> kristianpaul: the name have changed to bin/xburst/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-uImage.bin  :)
<kristianpaul> yes
<kristianpaul> i noticed that too
<kristianpaul> hmm the uImage is not used anymore?
<kristianpaul> wait not the root image
<kristianpaul> not sure if is updated :/
<kristianpaul> ah is -ubi
<kristianpaul> my fault
<xiangfu> I will update that page. :)
<kristianpaul> i can
<kristianpaul> ah ok :)
<kristianpaul> go ahead !
<kristianpaul> oh new font is sweet :)
<viric> hmm I've just tried to put a SD card
<viric> dmesg shows the proper size and partition, but it goes immediately "retrying using single block read
<viric> "
<viric> "error -145 sending status command"
<viric> "error -145 sending read/write command, response 0x0, card status 0x0"
<viric> end_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk0, sector 0
<larsc> viric: does anything change if you remove it and reinsert it?
<viric> larsc: it says the same
<viric> maybe I'm putting it somehow wrong?
<viric> not fast enough, ... ?
<viric> it's 2.6.34 (openwrt patches)
<viric> (openwrt config generic + xburst + qb_lb60 config, simply setting the sound as in-kernel)
<larsc> well either your card is broken or there is a bug
<viric> hm
<viric> it's a card I used in a gp2x
<viric> I'll try in my notebook
<viric> 2GB microSD from Kingston
<viric> my pc reads it perfectly
<larsc> so it is a bug.
<viric> may I try 2.6.35?
<larsc> yes
<viric> ok
<larsc> there has been some restructuring in the mmc driver for 2.6.35
<viric> great
<viric> 10 minutes and I'll have it I hope
<viric> larsc: btw I changed that keymap you gave me (pointing to gitorious) to get pageup/pagedown and scrollup/scrolldown
<viric> IMO it had wrong keys, or I did not guess what were those keys mapped to pageup/pagedown
<viric> larsc: hmm it looks like the 2.6.35 in openwrt does not have mmc support at all. Btw the keyboard patch works fine
<larsc> 054-mmc.patch
<viric> I mean maybe it's not in the config. I'll check
<viric> hmmm it is
<viric> dmesg says nothing, when I put the card
<viric> JZ4740 SD/Multimedia Card Interface support, NAME: MMC_JZ4740, ALTS: Y/n/m/?, ANSWER:
<viric> it's there.
<larsc> viric: is there a /sys/bus/platform/drivers/jz4740-mmc on your nanonote ?
<viric> [   10.020000] jz4740-rtc jz4740-rtc: rtc core: registered jz4740-rtc as rtc0
<viric> [   10.050000] jz4740-mmc jz4740-mmc.0: JZ SD/MMC card driver registered
<viric> [   10.070000] No device for DAI jz4740-i2s
<viric> [   10.110000] asoc: jz4740 <-> jz4740-i2s mapping ok
<viric> it's there
<viric> /sys/kernel/debug/mmc0 # cat ios
<viric> clock:          0 Hz
<viric> vdd:            0 (invalid)
<viric> bus mode:       1 (open drain)
<viric> chip select:    0 (don't care)
<viric> power mode:     0 (off)
<viric> bus width:      0 (1 bits)
<viric> timing spec:    0 (legacy)
<viric> Hmmmm I halted and booted, and it works now. I was in the system through a 'back reset button' after usbboot flashing the firmware.
<viric> the card reading worked (it had the card at boot time). But when I took the card out, it did not notice I took it out.
<larsc> do you have the latest openwrt trunk?
<larsc> there was a bug with the card detection, but it was fixed a few days ago
<viric> I have the latest, so I have your keyboard patch
<viric> 22513
<viric> sorry
<viric> 22530 I mean
<larsc> could you paste your /sys/kernel/debug/gpio again?
<viric> yse
<viric> (btw, the resort of the card just threw my microsd 5 meters away
<viric> )
<viric> I had to look for it in the grass :)
<larsc> and /proc/interrupts
<viric> larsc: interrupt counter for the mmc detect increases only when I remove the card
<viric> tuxbrain: did you try the microphone in the nanonote? I tried arecord... at what highest rate can I record? All I tried over 8000Hz looks like failing, with arecord.
<larsc> viric: its a bit strage that the card detect gpio pin is high both times.
<viric> hm I agree.
<viric> Maybe I broke something in the hw? Should I try 2.6.34 back?
<viric> the gpio does not change at all
<viric> when I put or remove the card
<viric> But interrupts, there are.
<viric> (only removing)
<viric> so, nothing new.
<larsc> i'll try with my nanonote late to see if i can reporduce it
<viric> great
<viric> in the worst case I can boot with the card in
<viric> It looks like it takes the state from boot time.
<viric> when I boot without card, it stays as without card
<viric> it's better than 2.6.34 :)
<qi-bot> [commit] Juan64Bits: Phy http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/5ce4404
<viric> larsc: Can I tell by software to the kernel that the mmc card is out or in?
<larsc> viric: nope. but you can reload the the driver
<viric> larsc: if it is not a module?
<larsc> even it is not a module
<viric> how?
<viric> I didn't know
<larsc> cd /sys/bus/platform/driver/jz4740-mmc/; echo jz4740-mmc > unbind; echo jz4740-mmc > bind
<viric> # echo jz4740-mmc > unbind
<viric> -bash: echo: write error: No such device
<viric> ah, with .0 maybe
<viric> right, it works fine. It detects the card when it's in, and does not detect anything when it is not
<viric> (binding/unbinding)
<viric> thank you!
<kristianpaul> hello
<kristianpaul> nice font in last openwrt xburst :)
<viric> kristianpaul: mm is it different?
<kristianpaul> mm?
<viric> mmmm (thinking) is it different?
<kristianpaul> ahh
<kristianpaul> s/mm/hmm
<kristianpaul> ;)
<viric> hehe
<zear> tuxbrain2, hey man, do you accept paypal payment for the wiz? We have a guy on our dingoo forums looking for a uk wiz seller that accepts paypal
<zear> *ue
<zear> *eu
<zear> :P
<viric> (whois zear
<viric> :)
<zear> it's me, i'm legit ;)
<viric> I was interested why you could have mixed 'ue' and 'eu' looking at your hostname :)
<zear> hehe
<viric> (and guessing some land from it)
<zear> yeah, we write it UE in Poland, though i usually don't make that mistake
<zear> it's just that i typed "uk" first
<viric> ok
<viric> kristianpaul: ah, I forgot to ask; What is different in the font?
<kristianpaul> viric: little but good
<kristianpaul> just enough
<viric> kristianpaul: hm is it 2.6.35?
<viric> I wonder what font it is. 4x6? 8x8?
<viric> I'll go for that 4x6; it will be better than the current 8x16 I have chosen :)
<viric> uh bad idea.
<viric> 4x6 looks unreadable :)
<kristianpaul> viric: 2.6.32.18
<viric> ah
<viric> can you know what font you use?
<kristianpaul> opkg list said dejavu-fonts-ttf 2.23-1
<viric> uh ttf?
<viric> aren't you talking about the fbcon font?
<kristianpaul> dont know
<viric> ahh
<kristianpaul> i just  compile last openwrt-xburst
<viric> ok I'll check
<viric> in the tree
<kristianpaul> ok
<viric> haha the commit there says: mirko: do not use font <FONT_MINI_4x6> for target lb60 by default as it's unreadable
<viric> which matches what I said a few lines ago :)
<kristianpaul> :p
<viric> But I don't see any special font set
<viric> other than 8x16
<viric> can you tell me the result of "echo $LINES $COLUMNS" ?
<viric> in a shell in the screen
<kristianpaul> sure
<kristianpaul> wait
<viric> maybe it even is not a font set by the kernel, but set by the init scripts?
<kristianpaul> void
<viric> I'll keep on with fbterm
<tuxbrain2> zear, no more wiz...
<zear> you ran out of stock?
<zear> i thought nobody was buying them ;)
<Textmode> is nobody
<tuxbrain2> I have this article under demand due the provider was in spain and ships in 24h but he also runs out of stock and will not refill again
<tuxbrain2> In fact it is not manufactured anymore
<zear> ok, i see
<qi-bot> [commit] Juan64Bits: USB and MICROSD footprints added http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/0d12fb2
<qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Change wood size for 4th mold. Improved documentation. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-counterweight/709838a
<qi-bot> [commit] kyak: initial port of kbd utilities (thanks to wryun) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/22ac691
<qi-bot> [commit] David Kühling: Make Gforth's built-in assembler/disassembler work on non-mips architectures. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f60cf47
<qi-bot> [commit] bartbes: gmenu2x: Fixed file explorer/dialog http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/51419fd
<qi-bot> [commit] bartbes: gmenu2x: Fixed dir up http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/233fe22
<qi-bot> [commit] David Kühling: switch to newer upstream snapshot with improved MIPS support. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/4fd3496
<qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: fix the problem with csqrt. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/a66f6ed
<qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-packages http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/13b0dde
<wolfspraul> strange those seems like old commits :-)
<wolfspraul> xiangfu: maybe because of the merge at the end?
<xiangfu> wolfspraul: seems there is something wrong with my merge.
<wolfspraul> ouch :-)
<qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: fix the problem with csqrt. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/ea492be
<xiangfu> wolfspraul: fixed :)
<wolfspraul> nice
<qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: borrando basura http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/9fa83a7
<qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/bd2d314
<qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: more fpga ddr lines has been connected http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/3678b1c